Sean Casey - 3-Time NL All Star

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the abca's podcast. I'm your host, ryan brownlee. Baseball is a story told across generations through the players, the moments and the gloves that shape the game. Now that story comes to life in Rawlings, the Finest in the Field book available now for pre [email protected] each of the 50 gloves is presented through detailed photography and paired with immersive essays that place the artifact within its historical context. Captivating imagery, period advertisements and additional memorabilia further illuminate the era each glove represents. Reserve your copy [email protected] and be among the first to experience baseball's evolution as told through the story of these iconic gloves. This episode is sponsored by Netting Pros. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time Netting Professionals specializes in the design, fabrication and installation of custom netting for backstops, batting cages, dugouts, BP screens and ball carts. They also design and install digital graphic wall padding, windscreen turf, turf protectors, dugout benches, dugout cubbies and more. Netting Professionals is an official partner of the ABCA and continues to provide quality products and services to many high school, college and professional fields, facilities and stadiums throughout the country. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Contact them today at 844-620-2707 or infoettingpros.com, visit them online at www.nettingpros.com or check out NettingPros on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects. Make sure to let CEO Will Miner know that the ABCA sent you now onto the Podcast. Today's ABCA Podcast guest is one of the most beloved personalities to ever step on a major league field. Three time MLB All Star and 12 year begled veteran Sean Casey, better known as the Mayor, built a reputation not just for his bat, but for the way he connected with everyone around him. From standout years with the Cincinnati Reds to stints with the Cleveland Indians, Pittsburgh Pirates, Detroit Tigers and Boston Red Sox, Casey was one of the purest hitters and most respected teammates in the game. Off the field, that same energy carried over. Since retiring, Casey has become a staple on MLB Network, showing insight and passion for the game and even stepped into the dugout as a New York Yankees hitting coach in 2023. Casey's the host of the Mayor's Office, where he brings the same charisma into conversations with athletes, entertainers and leaders from all walks of life. Known as one of the friendliest guys in baseball, Casey brings knowledge, authenticity and a whole lot of energy to everything he Casey also has an eight week mental performance program. Out now, Breakthrough Pro. You can find [email protected]. let's welcome Sean Casey to the podcast. Sean Casey, three time NL All Star, but spent a lot of time the big leagues, Indians, Reds, Pirates, Tigers, Red Sox, but now in the Major League Baseball Network office right now. [00:03:35] Speaker B: So. Yeah, what's up, Ryan? How you doing, man? Yeah, man, this is my 18th year at the network, which is crazy, dude. I mean, how time flies, you know, it's, it's amazing. [00:03:46] Speaker A: You know, I, I still think about you because in our player's manual, you and I have talked about the mental toughness, baseball, winning, edge. That book, your quote on, you know, the grass is greener wherever you water it. That was something that I showed our players every year. [00:04:01] Speaker B: Yeah, it's true, man. I mean, I mean, you know, the mental side of the game was probably the most important for me. You know, I was never a guy that you were to look at a showcase nowadays and be like, oh, that guy's definitely going to be a big leaguer. But my dad bought me the Metal Game of Baseball book back when I was 16 years old. And for whatever reason, I dove right into it. Harvey Dorfman and Carl Keel wrote that book. And I read that book since I was 16, till I was 34 the last day I retired in the big leagues. And you know, I truly believe, you know, whatever you put into your mind comes out. And, you know, it helped me just be, you know, so resilient in this game and start having a different relationship to failure. You know, looking at failures, feedback and information. And I'm so grateful for that book and for Harvey, but also that thought process of the grass is greener where you're watering. But it's so easy to look outside yourself and say, oh, if I just had that, or I just did this, or if I was just on that team or with this coach. At the end of the day, life is you versus you. But this game is the ultimate you versus you. And wherever your feet are, man, and you gotta be able to dive in and lock in and use your mind and use your, the faculties that you've been given to become the best version of yourself. Because, you know, I always like the thought process. Wherever you, wherever you go, there you are. So whoever you are off the field is going to be a lot. Who you are in the box or on the bump or in the defense. So you got to find, you find a way to figure it out and keep watering it. [00:05:26] Speaker A: Yeah, but I think that's funny that you say that, that you weren't that talented, because I always viewed you as somebody that probably fell out of bed and could hit. [00:05:34] Speaker B: Right. I wish that was the case. You know, listen, I always had great eye hand coordination. But, you know, I remember back when I was 14 years old, just an incredible lesson when my dad didn't play much my freshman year and remember coming home and I was like, dad, can you go talk to the coach? And he was like, you know what? I'm not going to go talk to the coach. He goes, you know, there's a batting cage that just opened up. I don't know if you remember those Grand Slam USA Grand Slam USA just opened up in Bethel Park. And he's like, you know, you got to start working harder. You're 14, 15 years old. You're not playing. And his point was, you're not glaringly better than the kid that's playing ahead of you, because if you were glaringly better, you'd be playing. And I was like, wow. It was kind of a tough little lesson, but it was, but it was the conversation for me. You know, so many times for parents, we want to take away the pain of our kids, but, you know, that no, for me was a little bit of pain in that conversation. But it also steered me toward hitting every day, working every day, starting to love hitting. I started, I got a lesson by a guy named Frank Porco every Tuesday night. 20 bucks back then. Now it's like 120 for like a half hour. 20 bucks for a half hour, I think, and spent time on, you know, learning the skills of the swing. But then, you know, six, seven days a week, just hitting every day at the cages after school, hitting in my garage and putting in the time. And I think to be great at anything, you know, repetition is the mother of skill, and you have to master the mundane of the work. And so, you know, I look back at, you know, probably easy to say, man, a guy could hit coming out of bed. But, you know, it was a lot of work that went into having that feeling that, you know, I could really, really go out there and hit with anybody. [00:07:06] Speaker A: Do you think that's common denominator for the elite of the elite is that they enjoy the mundane. They don't. I always view it. They don't view it as mundane. They just. They have some passion in the work that. That is required. [00:07:17] Speaker B: Well, I was just coaching, you know, just the hitting coach for team Team USA and the wbc. And if you, if you could, could have seen you Know, I couldn't, I couldn't get to my locker before I could hear guys in the cages hitting, you know. But I mean, the best of the best, you know, success leaves clues. When you got Aaron Judge and Bryce Harper and Kyle schw, Bobby Witt Jr. And Bryce Tarang and Will Smith and the best of the best, Alex Bregman fighting for cage time, and they're already established for who they are. You don't think what, you know, you could see the work, the tee work, the flip work, the routines, the rituals, the mundane of the work. And then you see him on the field, Bryce Harper and these guys going out and, you know, being the best in the world. And you're like, oh, man, they just must be so good. No, they're in there at noon hitting off the tee, doing the mundane work, but they love it. The passion is so there. I mean, you have to immerse yourself in the craft. So, you know, the best of the best, right? You know, they're doing that behind the scenes. So for the people that think you're just going to come out and, hey, I just, I was great when I was 12. Well, guess what? Everyone's great when they were 12. You know, the guys that keep working and putting the work in. And the other thing is, you can work on the mental game. You know, I can't stand people like, hey, this game's 90% mental. What do you work, what are you doing to learn how to breathe? What are you doing to learn how to have elite self talk? What do you do in a train? Perspective and gratitude, you know, what are you doing to train that stuff? Well, I don't do anything. Well, guess what? There's a reason that 95% of the guys that get drafted don't play a day in the big leagues. 5% do, because they're working the mental game and the physical side of it, the skill, they're putting it together. Those are your big leaguers. [00:08:56] Speaker A: When did you pick up breath work? Because I think that's one of the things that maybe the mental aspects didn't talk about at all. Like, it's a great book, but it really didn't cover a lot of the breath work that you see now. [00:09:06] Speaker B: Well, in, in the book the Mental Game of Baseball, Harvey Dorfman covers it a lot. You know, he says, breathe or die in there. Because, you know, and one thing I've learned with kind of doing my own program called Breakthrough Pro and teaching the breath, you know, one thing I realized is that, you know, you, your Body is most of the time in the sympathetic nervous system, where, like, you know, it's fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. And the job of your brain has one thing to keep you in survival and safe. So when you're playing any kind of sport, especially baseball, when you're in the batter's box and you have a club in your hand and that guy has a rock 60ft, 6 inches away, your brain doesn't go, oh, we're safe. Your brain actually goes, oh, wow, we're not safe. So you have to be able to use your breath to slow down, take the breath. I would say it's a two in, four out. You know, the longer exhale gets your heart rate down, which allows you to get to that parasympathetic nervous system. I say you got to throw yourself a parachute to tell your brain, we're safe. We're playing baseball. This is a game. But the only way to be successful on the bumper in the box is to set that stage and set the state with your breath. So now I can perform. Now I can say, okay, what's the process here? What's my game plan? I'm going to hunt the fastball, look middle way, react in. But if I can't first control my body. You control your body to get your mind. I got to be able to control my body and the breath to tell my mind we're safe. Now I slow down, and now I can play the game that I love. [00:10:39] Speaker A: You still use it with MLB Network. I'm sure you get butterflies before you go on air, right? [00:10:43] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Still, man. When that. When that. When, you know, when they're counting us down from 10, I always take a deep breath before I go on air just because I can feel. I can feel the tightness in my chest or the tightness in your stomach because the body's always keeping score. And I just take a nice deep breath to say, we're safe. We've been doing this for 18 years. Take a breath. We're just talking baseball. [00:11:03] Speaker A: How'd you get hooked up with Ronnie Atkins and Mark McQueen? [00:11:06] Speaker B: Well, you know, it's funny because, you know, I had another great story. By the time I was a senior in high school, I really was glaringly better than a lot of people in Pittsburgh in that area. And I went to my dad before. Before my senior year, and I said, where is everybody, dad? Like, where are the recruits? Where are the colleges? I mean, no Division 1, 2, or 3 colleges that are coming my way. Where is everybody? Where are the scouts? You know, I feel like I'm glaringly better. And I really was at the time. I was one of knew I was one of the best hitters in the area, you know, And I remember my dad saying, you know, he said it was just another great lesson. He said, I go out, I got another lesson for you. I'm like, kind of sick of tired of these lessons, you know what I mean? But he's like, I was 17 years old at the time. He said, you got to realize in life, he's like, nobody's coming for you. Nobody's coming to hand you anything. Nobody's coming to find you. You know, and it might be a little different nowadays in 2026, but back then, 1992, it was the truth. I mean, there were no social media. There was no, you know, showcases, all that kind of stuff. He's like, listen, he goes, if you want. If you want anything in life, you. You got to go. If they're not going to come to you, you got to go to them. So he said, tomorrow, when you get home from school, why don't you sit down at my desk and write 30 letters the places you want to. [00:12:22] Speaker A: I did. [00:12:22] Speaker B: I came home from school my senior year before. It was before my senior season had started, probably at two months before it. And I wrote. I started writing letters. One. I remember writing the first one to Penn State, the next one to Clemson. But then I was like, College of Wooster, College of Marietta. I mean, it was Division 1, Division to Division 3. And I remember my dad, after I was getting up from his desk, saying, hey, write one more letter. He's like, the University of Richmond sent you a brochure at the Keystone State games the summer before. And he said, write one more letter. So I wrote one more letter, 31st letter to coach Atkins. And I, you know, dear Coach Atkins, you know, my name is Sean Casey. I'm a hard worker, blah, blah, blah. I think I can play for your program. Anyway, send it off. There's about four games to go in my senior year. I'm really about to go to John Carroll, which is a Division 3 school in Cleveland with no. Like, there's no. I haven't even talked really talked to the coach. I'm really just going there because I got some. I got some financial aid. My dad didn't make a ton of money at the time, so I got financial from John Carroll, was going there to walk on Division 3 program. And my dad's big message to me was too, like, you know, preparation, meeting, opportunity, luck is preparation. Meeting opportunity. He's like, when? If an opportunity is going to come, it'd be ashamed if you're not prepared. Well, I was prepared. I've been hitting every day since I was 14, 15 years old. And sure enough, this one day, we're playing this team called Montour High School. First a bat, eight bases loaded, a rocket left center, doubled, all three runs scored. Next to bat, another double. I end up hitting four for four. Four doubles, eight RBIs. One of the best games I've ever had. As I was running out the first base, my head coach, Jerry Malarkey's like, hey, Case, how many hits you got today, man? I'm like, four hits. How many doubles? I got four doubles. How many ribbons? Eight rubies. He go, man, that's incredible. And he turned and looked and pointed. He said, hey, see that guy behind the backstop? I said, yeah. He said, that's a guy named Mark McQueen. He's the pitching coach for the University of Richmond. He drove up here six hours on the account of the letter you sent a few months ago. And I said, wow, no way. And then after the game, Mark McQueen, they offered me a thousand dollar scholarship. It was 30 grand a year to go Richmond, I think, at the time. And my dad was making 33 grand a year, so you could do the math and think we couldn't afford it. But my dad said, we'll figure it out. And that was the only college scholarship I had, was the University of Richmond, whether it was D1, 2 or 3. Showed up there sight unseen in August. Ended up starting my freshman year. Was freshman All American. Went to the Cape my sophomore year. Was an all star there, led the country. And I was Division one national batting champion my junior year, which is crazy to think I couldn't get a scholarship three years earlier. Second round pick of the Cleveland Indians at the time. Then a couple years later was in the big leagues, and then the rest is history. But you know those lessons from my father about you're not glaringly better and nobody's coming for you to write those letters and have Mark McQueen come out. And then the journey kind of began. It's just pretty incredible. [00:15:10] Speaker A: And first ever Triple Crown winner in the Colonial. [00:15:13] Speaker B: Yeah, first ever. Yeah, exactly. I was. It was pretty cool. [00:15:16] Speaker A: What Colonial was so good? You and I have talked about that. The Colonial was so good back then. [00:15:21] Speaker B: We were loaded. I mean, Old Dominion. So many good players out of there. You know, even William and Mary, East Carolina, UNC Wilmington. There was a lot of George Mason. There was a lot A lot of good players out of the Colonial back then. [00:15:33] Speaker A: Did you have to tweak much with your swing over time? [00:15:37] Speaker B: You know what I was. My hitting coach, Frank Porco used to tell me all the time, he's like, great hitters, wait. He just always said, great hitters, wait. So kind of my philosophy of, like, I got to be great going to left center. And it just. It really, you know, what was. It would help me so much to be, you know, even it be a career.300 hitter in the big leagues. Like, because of that mentality, I didn't struggle for such a long period of time. I would struggle for a few weeks because I would just say, got to get my vision back. I got to be able to see the ball deep because especially as I moved up level, especially when you get to the big leagues, nothing straight, you know, everything's tunneling like this cut and sink. And so to be really great, you really had to be great. That last five feet when ball started to move, whether it was a. Whether it was a take or whatever. And I really believe your big leaguers, they do a great job of the strike to ball. You know, these pitchers are trying to make you look like it's a strike, but then it's really a ball. So if you're waiting a little bit longer, letting the ball get a little deeper, you can make better decisions and better swing decisions. So I think that was the biggest thing for me was, you know, letting the ball get deep. Now, throughout the career, I look back at my swing, like my posture was a little different at times. You know, I was a little taller when I first got to league than sometimes I. You know, I remember 2004, one of my best years. I got a little bit more in a crouch, but, you know, I blew out my shoulder in 2002. So coming back, I had to learn to be more of a pull hitter because going to left center was harder for me. So you're always kind of making adjustments with your swing. But overall, my mentality of, like, letting the ball travel and making sure that I'm making great decisions late that. That. I think that served me the best. [00:17:16] Speaker A: I was at the Bears Nats game last Friday. I'm still amazed that anybody gets hits anymore. [00:17:22] Speaker B: Yeah, right, right. [00:17:24] Speaker A: For me, the stuff is so good now. They know exactly where to play you. Defensively, I'm just surprised anybody gets hits anymore. [00:17:30] Speaker B: I think the defensive part of it's a big thing. No doubt about it. I think. I think in the pitch, shaping is such a big thing. Nowadays, I mean, the way the catchers are setting up down the middle, and they're just saying, hey, just throw it down the middle. Let it. Let your ball work for you. But you know what? Haven't been in the dugout in 2023 with the Yankees, you know, as their hitting coach, and really going through those hitters meetings, you know, guys are still missing down the middle, guys are still making mistakes. At the end of the day, the biggest analytic you need to know is 17 by 8 by 12. It's the size of the plate. Can you visually control that zone? Can you make great swing decisions? It's still baseball. I mean, guys. I think maybe guys out of the pen are throwing harder, consistently more than they did back in the day. But at the end of the day, they still need to throw strikes. And at the end of the day, if you want to be a really good hitter, you got to be able to control the strike zone. [00:18:22] Speaker A: And shrink the zone, too. Correct. [00:18:24] Speaker B: You got to be able to shrink the zone. I mean, the biggest thing is, like I said, these guys are trying to tunnel the ball where it's the strike to ball. Now. The biggest thing is, you know, you got to be able to bring them back to your zone. You know, if you're swinging outside the zone, they're going to keep challenging your vision to get you off the plate. If you're not biting on what they're throwing that you could, you got to bring them back to the center of that plate somehow. That's what your best hitters are doing. Guys are still hitting.330. Guys are still hitting.320. It's just less. Guys are. And I think the philosophy nowadays of hitting the ball of the ballpark, guys nowadays are more out front than ever. And if you're facing guys with good movement late, you're going to get burned more often than not. [00:19:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Black, the brewers, he laced two doubles down, down the left field line, opposite field, down the line. That stayed fair. I'm like, that's as. As big a skill as you'll see now, because guys aren't good with going the other way. He lays two balls right down the left field line for doubles. [00:19:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Huge. [00:19:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:24] Speaker B: Yeah. And nowadays. [00:19:25] Speaker A: 400, by the way. [00:19:26] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:19:28] Speaker A: 400. [00:19:28] Speaker B: He's hitting. 400. And nowadays, you know, Brownie, you know, people are getting sick and tired of the strikeout. You know, they're starting to appreciate you more now, not striking out, putting the ball in play. And, you know, if you can go the other way, you. You open up so much of the plate for yourself visually. [00:19:47] Speaker A: So obviously you didn't have a lot of extended slumps, but would you go back to something in the cage for cage work then to bring you back? Did you have some good things to bring you back? [00:19:56] Speaker B: I would just really, you know, if I was working off the tee, I would just try to work that left center corner and, you know, and really, you know, work on contact points. You know, whether it was middle in or, or working away. I, I. What one thing I like to do, which I found out Albert pools and a lot of guys in WBC would do to move the tee to your back leg, see if you can hit that swing and drop. Yeah, Tony Gwynne. It was great. It was great stuff. I used to do that a lot in college when I was at Richmond. But I think the biggest thing is, you know, you know, trying to get that feel, trying to get that feel back of, you know, where's the contact point, you know, and that I can hit the ball back here. I don't need to be so far out front. So I would train with the ball back. And then if I did flips or bp, I just really would try to work. I found if I could find that opposite field on the line, it would open up the poolside for me. So whenever I struggled, I would try to go back to that and see if I could back the, really back the ball up. [00:20:53] Speaker A: Did you feel as comfortable defensively as you did offensively? [00:20:57] Speaker B: Dude, I tell you what, Brownie. I mean, you know, defensively, I think I was more stressed out than offensively. Yeah, because you're expected to make every play, right? You're expected to scoop every ball. You're expected, you know, to get, to get it done. So, you know, and you're out there nine innings. You know, when you're hitting, you might get, you know, four to five bats a game. If you're out there defensively, you're out there pretty much every inning for three outs. So, you know, I did take pride, though. I remember reading something from Don Mattingly back in the day saying, hey, listen, either guys can hit or they can, but defensively you can. Everyone can get exponentially better. So felt like I became one of the better first basemen in the game defensively. But I think it was a lot of hard work, a lot of routines and rituals, and talk about mastering the mundane of taking 20 balls at you, 20 balls, your right to your left, off the bag, throw into second for me as a first baseman. So there's a lot of work that goes into it defensively, But I really enjoyed it. [00:21:50] Speaker A: I think some of it too, is you have those set routines at the plate to kind of keep you centered in and relaxed, where you maybe don't have as much defensively on that to be able to develop those mental routines because it is so different playing defense and is just being in the box. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I think too, I think learning for me, like, learning to slow down, getting that breath every single pitch, and being that part of my pre pitch routine of, you know, walking up to that spot, getting a breath and slowing down. I knew if I could get slow, I'd be better right to my right and left off the ball. So, you know, learning things like that, you really helped me a lot. [00:22:24] Speaker A: Did you have any go to then in game routines? Like what. What was your routine before you got on deck? [00:22:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah, Before I went on deck. Well, Harvey Dorfin was big on having a three keys to keep it simple, you know, like. So I used to write on a note card, see the ball, be easy, hammer it and have it in my note in my. In my. In my back pocket. So what I would do is I would walk out on deck, I would actually pull that card out, read it, put it back in my pocket. And then I thought, when I was on deck, this is opportunity for me. I'm obviously not in the box, but I'm close enough to get a read on what that pitcher is doing. So let me, you know, so I would. I would be on. On deck and be timing up that picture. And I could really see, man, there's a slider, there's his curveball. We'll look at the change up with a little bit of fade. The tumor seamer's got some good run. You know, all that stuff. So. And then try to also try to see if there's a lefty ahead of me, if Griffey was ahead of me or done, you know, what are they throwing to that guy? He's probably going to fall into some sort of pattern to get to me too. So, yeah, on deck. And even when I was in the. In the hole in the dugout, I'm always watching the game, which sometimes these iPads are in the dugout now. It's like, wow, man, these guys are more on their iPads than watching the game. I'm like, watch the game. I mean, the game will tell you a lot what's going on. [00:23:43] Speaker A: Yeah, especially get release point on deck, see what he's throwing for strikes. I think that was the thing That I always went to is if it looked like a strike coming out of his hand, was a strike at the plate that then probably you should swing at it. [00:23:55] Speaker B: Yeah, no doubt, man. Loved all that. [00:23:57] Speaker A: What about decompress then? Would you use after. In a bat? Would you use post game to kind of decompress? [00:24:05] Speaker B: Well, I mean, after an at bat, you know, I would, I would, I would really go to a lot of questions on did I swing in a strike? Was I slow? You know, was I, was I, was I, did I stay aggressive? Was I had, did I have that calm aggression? You know, because if I was outer, if I was, if I got out or got a hit, you know, that didn't matter so much as my process of. Was my process locked in? Was it tight, was I ready to go, was my breath good, all that stuff. And then after a game, man, it was just, you know, you know, being able to release anything that was on the field, man, easier said than done. But, you know, you just gotta realize that, you know, you gotta have a higher meaning for why you play the game. It just can't be because I'm a good or bad baseball player. You know, I'd say probably my faith was a big part of that. Just realizing that, like, there's a bigger meaning here in life, you know, and that really helped me to free up, you know, the game and have that identity of, you know, I'm, you know, I'm a child of God first or I'm a. I'm the father. I'm the son of Jim and Joan Casey. I am, you know, all that kind of stuff help me to really lock into, you know, baseball is not the end of the world. And that, that freed me up a lot when I was in the batter's box and also being grateful for the skills that I had to play the game. [00:25:19] Speaker A: Feel like nutrition's gotten better too. [00:25:21] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, no doubt. Yeah, no, no doubt. [00:25:23] Speaker A: It's incredible what we ate back in those days and what. Yeah, getting fed now and also too, [00:25:28] Speaker B: man, the way these guys eat. I remember, I remember, you know, being with the Yankees, a special box came in and I was like, oh, what's that? They're like, oh, that's the grass fed, you know, sirloin, grass fed beef for Judge Stanton. You know, all these guys, I'm like, wow, man. They always. Guys are locked in. Nutrition matters, sleep matters, you know, we all know now sleep might be the foundation of the fundamentals, how well you eat, sleep, move and breathe are. Who's doing that at an Elite level, you know, is probably doing a little bit better, you know, with other guys. They had a sleep study where they said if you got less than six hours of sleep, you're, you know, as a marks. As a. As a marksman, rifle guy, sniper. Your, you know, your. Your vision went down to like, 75%. If it was five hours less, it was like 50. So, like, at the end of when you say, oh, I'm a grinder, I don't need much sleep. Yeah, you do. You. You need to sleep well, you need to eat well, you need to breathe well, and you need to keep moving. So. Yeah, I mean, I think nowadays, Brownie. And, you know, one thing too. Like, back in the day, we might have had some beers after the game. Hang on. These guys aren't doing that either, man. They're not dehydrating their body. They're not, you know, make, you know, it's too important. You can't have a muscle strainer. It'll put you on the il. It'll take away from your numbers in the team. So the times have changed a lot in that aspect, brother. [00:26:46] Speaker A: Well, yeah, you look at the amount of accidents after daylight savings, time changes because people are getting one hour less sleep. [00:26:52] Speaker B: Incredible, dude. Yeah, more heart attacks, the stuff that's happening there. And for all the people that say, I don't need them, I don't need the seven to nine hours, they say in the research, the people that need less than six hours of sleep, it'd be like getting struck by lightning. That's, you know, that's. That. That. That's. So you got to know that the numbers are real. Seven to nine hours is what you need. [00:27:16] Speaker A: And that's a learning thing, too, because all those markers that you set during the day in your brain, the only way to get them synced in is actually through sleep. [00:27:25] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Everyone has their chronotype, everyone has their circadian rhythm, and you got to figure out what works best for you. [00:27:30] Speaker A: Do you feel like you understand the swing a little bit better now since you've been doing all the stuff? [00:27:34] Speaker B: Oh, there's no doubt about. No doubt about it, man. No doubt about it. [00:27:38] Speaker A: Yeah, no breakdowns and just. [00:27:40] Speaker B: Yeah, just understanding how the. How the body moves, understanding what guys are looking for. But at the end of the day, Brownie, the game is probably more mental than ever. And I think we still take that. That aspect for granted. [00:27:53] Speaker A: What else? I mean, you see the elite of the elite. What would you tweak for some of those guys that maybe they're not doing. [00:27:59] Speaker B: Oh man, the elite of the lead. I mean, like I said, I was just, I was just at the heading coach with the wbc, you know, it's more mental than anything. You know, I mean, these guys are always looking for field. They know what works. I think the biggest thing as a hitting coach, ask these guys, man, what are the three things? When you're going, well, what can I look for? And when three things that, when you're not going, well, what can I look for? Then you have that on a note card and you come back and go, hey man, you were saying when you're not getting that separation or you're saying when you're not getting that good deep breath or you're not going the other way, that's when you struggle. And when you're going, well, man, you got that good leg kick going. Whatever it is, you're getting down early. You know, Aaron Judge talks about, you know, ready to launch. You know, Alex Bregman talked about the 1, 2. I gotta be 1 2, not 1, 2, 3. You know, I always thought, you know, Will Smith talk would talk to me about, you know, driving the ball the other way. Bryce Turing talked about being behind the ball. So I think for every guy it's a little different, but. But the bottom line is the best of the best know, know themselves. And I think as a coach, you got to be able to go to what they told you. You know, it's usually one of those three things. Three things. [00:29:05] Speaker A: Either way, who are your biggest mentors when you got into pro ball? Could be a coach or a player. [00:29:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So many good guys. I mean, I remember coming up with the, with the Cleveland Indians, you know, Jim Thoman was a great guy. When I first came up, just the way he treated me was just such a great guy. Joel Skinner, when my first, my first coach in Watertown, New York, I look back, very grateful for him. I was 20, 21 years old, second round pick. And I remember coming into pro ball and I think as you, I just, like I said, I just hit.461 to win the NCAA batting title and the Triple Crown, the CAA. And remember coming into pro ball, there was a coach that got a hold of me and was like, man, you're not using your legs enough. This is like a weekend, a weekend of pro ball. He's like, you got to get more in your legs. I'm like, oh man, this guy must know what he's talking about. You know, he's, he's in pro ball. So I remember Squatting down, which I really didn't do. I was really, you know, I'm 6 3, 6 4, try to be tall to the ball. So I started doing that. Really struggled, Brian, you know, really struggled. And I remember Joel Skinner coming up to me and going, hey man, how come the Indians took you in the second round? I said, well, because I can hit. He's like, well, what'd you hit at Richmond? I said 461. He goes, Listen, he goes, tonight. He goes, I don't know you, you don't know me, but I know you don't hit like that. You don't look comfortable. I want, I want you to hit the way that you hit tonight. So I was like, man, I got the, you know, from my manager telling me to do that. So that night I stood back up tall, hit the way I hit. I ended up hitting.329. I think I won the batting title from there on out. And it was such a great lesson for me. And so Mark Shapiro was such a, you know, influence on me when I was, he was the head of the minor league director back then. And that offseason I heard that he had a meeting with all the, all the coaches in the minors saying, you know, don't touch Sean Casey swing. Just let him hit the way he hits. And if he gets to a place where he really struggles, we'll look at that then. And that was big for me. You know, Mark was such a mentor. A guy like Joel Skinner was such a mentor. All my minor league coaches, Jeff Dats and double A Jack Mole, you know, Brian Graham and AAA guys, that really helped me understand how to be a pro. Jack McKeon, when I got to the Reds, you know, was so great for me in those first few years. Barry Larkin when I got there, Greg Vaughn, some, you know, Hal Morris, a lot of veteran guys. But when I was younger, you know, a lot of those, the minor league guys helped me out a lot. But I also realized you can't always be so coachable too. You have to really know yourself. And, and I think sometimes being too coachable ruins guys careers. [00:31:33] Speaker A: Yeah, and I was going to ask you that, I mean, how do you fight that? Because obviously you're, you're going to listen to all the voices that are there. But how do you fight that as a player that like, okay, this works for me, but my coordinator might be telling me something. You know, you see it on the pitching side too, where guys make adjustments, then they get banged up, you know, how do you fight that as A player like, okay, this is how I know this is what works for me. So I'm going to stay with it. I'm going to nod my head and say, okay, but I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. [00:31:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I know some guys in certain places now and different organizations, and they're really teaching that launch angle swing, hitting the ball to the top of the cage. You know, I actually think you're in real trouble if you do that. So I know there's a friend of mine, sons in an organization where they want him to do that, and he's the opposite. He's a speed guy. Like, he likes to hit down on the ball, backspin it. And, you know, you know, I always say, listen, man, you got to know yourself and you got to be able to communicate to that coach, because if that's not you, you're going to be out of the game in a couple years and you're going to go back to the coach and go, oh, what do you think now that I'm out of the game? You know, you know, should I still do this? Like, no, it's your career. You got to be able to communicate. That doesn't feel comfortable for me, and this works for me. And, you know, you got to be able to. You got to be able to say, you know, let me do this until, you know, until it doesn't work, and then we can look at something else. [00:32:53] Speaker A: Yeah. What can the newer generation of hitting coaches learn from the older generation of hitting coaches? [00:32:58] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I mean, it depends on, you know, not everybody's, you know, an uphill guy. I think it's a. I think it's a person by person thing, too. You can't just cookie cut hitting. You really can't. I mean, you know, Aaron Judge, the reason Aaron Judge, you know, kind of went to the Richard Shank way of hitting is because he was so steep. And then I coached him, I had a great conversation with him. He was initially so steep, and Richard Shank kind of helped him. You know, it was like extremes. Extreme steep to an extreme back. Got him leveled off. You know, I mean, I think it's kind of a case of Cal Raleigh, too. Same thing. Steep this way, got a little more this way, you know, so there's different guys, and some guys are more uphill. If you're more uphill, then we need to get you more downhill. We're just looking to level you off and get you on the plane soon and into the. But I'll tell you what, working uphill I don't know if that's the answer. I think, I think, I think it's a. There's a happy medium to how to get you leveled off. And you don't land, you don't land the plane. You got to be able to land the plane. You're always going to kind of have that downward trajectory to the ball. You know, you don't want to have the crash landing where you're like this, but you also don't want to be working uphill like that too much. It's really a case by case basis. You can't just cookie cut hitting. People's bodies move different and you got to be able to be a good coach and not just say there's one way to do it. [00:34:14] Speaker A: But Judge has also done a good job of shrinking his own too. [00:34:18] Speaker B: Dude, all that, all that, he hits [00:34:19] Speaker A: in a way smaller window now than he ever. It's almost, it's almost Bonds esque now. Like he's hitting into a very small window. So he's not going to miss as many pitches now. [00:34:28] Speaker B: It really is if Judges and chasing that slider off the plate, he's a real problem for you, you know, I mean, if he's, if he's his. That and your best hitters are the guys that don't really chase. You know, they make you come back to the zone, at least give themselves a shot. Because nowadays in the big leagues, Brownie, if you're chasing that pitch off, these guys can go a little bit further off, a little bit further off. They'll eat you to death. And you know, you're Aaron Judge because you can pull those guys back to the plate visually, Visually. [00:34:54] Speaker A: How many of those guys are using data? You know, the elite of the elite. How, how much are those guys looking at heat maps and some of the data that's out there available, they're using, [00:35:03] Speaker B: they're using the data, but you'd be shocked at how they're able to simply simplify better than the other guys. I think the guys that are using too much data, it's still a visual game. You still got to be able to see the ball and hit the ball. Slow yourself down, use your breath. You know, the guys that are. The guys that are really, you know, that are using too much data, I think those guys are not your good hitters. [00:35:27] Speaker A: And what can the older generation learn from the newer generation? [00:35:30] Speaker B: Well, you can't just say, well, the way I did it, you know, the old school baseball, it's not true. It's baseball and if you're not using some of the new analytics to help you out or to help, you know, to put together game plans, well, then you're not going to last in this game. You know, you have to be able to marry both of them. You have to be able to marry the analytics, and those guys. You have to be able to marry. Keeping it simple, too. It's. It's just, you know, really, you gotta. I mean, and like I said, being with these. Some of these guys at wbc, you know, they want to keep it simple. They want to keep it simple. Now what happens is it's like giving a good keynote speech, having all the. All the information you need, and then when you go out there, just let it fly, let it rip, you know, I mean, so, like, that's what these guys need to be doing. Take the information that you want, have some bits and pieces. But when you get out there, you got to see the ball and hit the ball at an elite level. [00:36:24] Speaker A: Can we develop and win at the same time? [00:36:28] Speaker B: You know what? I feel like that's getting harder. I actually do. You know, I mean, it's funny. Obviously, it depends on what your payroll is. If you're a team with a lower payroll, you have to be able to develop and win at the same time. You're probably going to have to develop and have that learning curve where you're developing guys, and a couple of years later, you're like, okay, now we're ready to win. But if you're the. If you're the. Like. The New York Yankees sent down Anthony Volpe to Triple A. Volpe's still like 23 or 24 years old, I think, but Caballero is playing well. You got George Lombard Jr. Getting ready to come up. Like, you know, Dominguez is down there. Spencer Jones, on any other team would have been up two years ago, but, you know, he's still down there. So, you know, there's certain teams are like, we need to. We're here to win now. We're not here to develop. And that could be. That's really a tough thing to do. [00:37:15] Speaker A: Yeah, but winning baseball is a skill, right? [00:37:17] Speaker B: It really is, man. It really is. You got to be able to. You got to be able to kind of do both, but you got to be able to develop quickly in the minor league. So when these guys get to the big leagues, they're ready to go. And you see it, too, Brownie, These guys are getting rushed quicker than ever. You know, you got a kind of a Connor Griffin with the. You Know, with the Pirates, they're ready to bring him up right now. You know, let's get this guy up there now. And I believe he's ready to do that and be great. But, you know, they're having these guys learn on the fly quick in the big league level quicker than ever, and it's not easy to do. [00:37:49] Speaker A: How was it that you're coaching? Did you like it? [00:37:52] Speaker B: I loved it, man. I really did love it. I loved it. I loved it coaching with the Yankees and I loved coaching with the wbc. I think the one thing you realized when I was a. With the Yankees for half a season, the grind is real, man. You know, the routines and the R. These guys are great because they got great routines and rituals every single day. And like I said before, mastering the mundane of the routines is so important. But, man, as a coach, dude, you're in there long, you know, you're there 12 to 12 every day. I think the one. I think the one place where, you know, the system still is broken is coaches salaries. You know, they're not paying these guys enough. You're not seeing a lot of enough good big league guys coming back to coach because the money's not there. [00:38:30] Speaker A: Did you have to change your hitting styles at all over the course of your career? Did your time. [00:38:36] Speaker B: You know what? Not so much. Yeah, a little bit. As I got older, probably a little bit, I had to, you know, I had to definitely, you know, as the bat speed went down a little bit, you had to figure things out, man. Went. Played in Boston last year. I loved using the Monster. And that was, that was a. That was a real thing. You know, I think the injuries sometimes, you know, they throw off your game a little bit, you know. You know, pulling a quad, blowing out a hip flexor, straining a calf, you know, all of a sudden your lower extremities, when those go a little bit, and I tore, you know, my labrum, bicep, tendon, back, shoulder had surgery, you know, too. That kind of affected me getting through the baseball. So you're always tinkering, trying to figure things out, and you're always looking for different feels too brownie, you know, you just always are. [00:39:18] Speaker A: I mean, and that's part of the grind, too, is actually playing through injuries. [00:39:21] Speaker B: Dude, you gotta do it, man. You're. You're only. The only time you're really healthy is probably day one of spring training. And after that, you're always like, ah, you know, I'm feeling a little sore here or there. You know, it's crazy. [00:39:31] Speaker A: It's crazy, you know, for you. It just seems like you're so positive. I just probably never. You probably never got into many refs as a player. [00:39:41] Speaker B: I mean, you try not to, but sometimes the failure does get to you. I mean, I was a career 300. Hitters still failed 70% of the time. So, you know, I think the biggest thing is just continue to talk to yourself. Continue to have positive self talk, knowing that you're, you know, you're grateful for your craft. You have more, you have a higher meaning than just baseball. And that stuff kept me really positive. [00:40:01] Speaker A: Your dad gave you a lot of good advice. Did you get any other good advice from other people? [00:40:06] Speaker B: I mean, probably a lot of good advice along the way. Just a lot of how to be a pro. I remember, you know, Barry Larkin just telling me, you know, you gotta just be yourself. Whoever you are is good enough. And we need, we don't need you to be somebody that you're not. I remember John Rollerude at first base and the Reds were like, you need to hit more home runs. And I'm like, why? I like hitting 330, I like hitting 320, I like driving in runs over 300. Doubles, you know, I had a career 814 OPS. I always say, doubles are power, man. You know, if you can hit the ball in the gaps, you have power. So, you know, I hit my fair share of homers, but I hit some doubles. I remember John Old coming to me at first base and we were having that conversation because the Blue Jays back in the day wanted him to hit more homers and his swing really fell apart. And he said, hey, man. He goes, I tried to do that too. He goes, if you try to hit more home runs, your swing is going to fall apart. Be a great hitter first, you know, lock into being a great hitter. Hit line drives and, you know, mistakes. I remember Dave, Justin tell me when I first got up, if you can run into 25 or 30 mistakes, you know, home runs are mistakes. You're catching the ball a little out front, maybe a slider curveball, change up. If you can run into 25 mistakes, you're gonna make a lot of money this game. [00:41:13] Speaker A: How did you get connected with the Brian Johnson? Is that through Brian Kane? [00:41:17] Speaker B: Brian Kane, man, yeah. Kaner's a good buddy of mine and Brian Johnson was starting heroic, and Kaner was like, you guys need to hook up. So, you know, when I, when I met Brian Johnson, right away I was like, man, this guy's a special guy. I know he Spoke for you guys last year at the convention, but what a great guy. And, you know, Brian Johnson, I've gotten good friends, Kaner, all that whole group of guys. And the big reason was I'm a big part of the mental side of the game. And not just, you know, heroic is, you know, the mental side of life. And, you know, you got to take care of the business plan before you can take care. You got to take care of the businessman before you. You can take care of the business plan. And that goes for the same thing for a baseball player. You got to take care of the man that you are away from or the woman that you are away from the field. So that when you get in the box and on the bump, you have the confidence and the accountability and the, and the, and the, and the mentality to play this game at an elite level. [00:42:08] Speaker A: I think it also speaks to that. I think no matter where you're at in your life, you're still going to need a coach at some point. [00:42:13] Speaker B: Dude, a good, a great coach condenses time for you. So a Harvey Dorfman condensed time for me. You know, a Brian Johnson, a Brian Kane, a Sean Casey, a Brandon guy, or, you know, guys that, you know, listen, I've been there, done that. At the end of the day, if you're talking to me about baseball, you know, about life, you know, I got a lot of, a lot of, you know, history there, but I've been in the box. I have 16,000 swings and a bats. You know, there's nothing you could say to me that I haven't been through. So you can't teach experience and a great coach condenses time for you, period. There's another guy who's, who's in kind of in our circle too, a guy named Charlie Smith out in Los Angeles. That's, I believe, one of the best mental coaches out there, too. So, you know, if you don't have somebody, find somebody, because, you know, there's nothing better than working on the mental side of the game. [00:43:00] Speaker A: All right, you have to answer this. What's your fail forward moment? Something you thought was going to set you back, but looking back now helped you move forward? Could be personally or professionally. [00:43:10] Speaker B: I think, I think in, I think getting, getting injured in 1998. Third day I got trade over the Reds. Fourth day I got like, I had an orbital fracture injury and, you know, thought my career might be over. End up coming back. Struggled a little bit, but then kind of found my way and then had a big year in 99 in 2000, I had a great, you know, I remember coming into spring training thinking, man, I rake. I rake. And I always call it the Iraq story. Like, that's not a process or an approach. That's a result, you know, of having a good process or an approach. And I remember in, you know, 2000, coming in saying, I rake and, and had a terrible spring training, but I just thought, oh, it's no big deal. I ended up getting injured, breaking my thumb. I came back and I really struggled for a couple months. And I remember starting to realize, oh my gosh, this irate mentality doesn't work. What works is taking a deep breath, slowing down, hunting the fastball, look middle way, react in. That was always my approach that I kind of got away from. And it was a great learning experience for me. To say, you want to be a big leaguer, you cannot wait for waste a pitch. You want to be a Division 1 minor league player, you can't waste one pitch. You don't have the luxury of doing that, especially when I'm playing at the highest level. So that whole having success and then really having some failure and having the irate mentality realize that doesn't work. What works is what's your process, what's your approach, what's your protocol every single day in the outside the box and in the box, that was my fail forward moment to say, failures, information, failures, feedback. Whoever fails the best wins. How do you fail the best? And that's what I learned to really lock into my process. [00:44:46] Speaker A: Have your daily habits and routines changed over the course of your life? Now as a 50, 50 something year old, how's that for you now? Because you're in shape? [00:44:54] Speaker B: Yeah. The biggest thing is like, the biggest thing for me is how, well, how great are my fundamentals? Eat, sleep, move, breathe. How well do I do that? You know, what am I? What are my am? PM bookends of? What does my morning routine look like? What does my PM routine look like? Because I know as soon as the morning gets over, the day can get chaotic. And I know what time am I going up to bed, what am I doing? What am I? I'm getting that hot shower to raise my, my heart rate so that when I get in the bed, my body's cooling down, I can hit REM sleep better that way. I got my mask, I got my, my rooms down to 65, I got the mouth tape going, all that kind of stuff. Stuff. Through trial and error, it's helped me out. When I wake up in the morning, I Get out. I get a 20 ounces of water in me with some electrolytes. I get out to take my walk and get my vitamin D. I get my workout in to get my mind going. I truly believe physiology does drive psychology. So if I'm doing those fundamentals right, I'm probably living the life that I want to live and making sure that I'm taking care of, like I said, taking care of the businessman so I can take care of the business plan. And you know, the bottom line is you got to take care of yourself first before you can take care of other people. [00:46:04] Speaker A: You do the same thing in the weight room every day. [00:46:06] Speaker B: You know what I really do and I try to keep it simple. I don't like going in there for 45 minute workouts. It's just not me anymore. I did that for so many years. I keep it pretty simple. Like I do like this squat rows. I love the tonal or whatever you have, but I grabbed it. I just do squat rows. 3 sets of 10 or some days I'll do a little heavier to make sure I'm pulling some weight. Then I do like a hundred push ups and I'll do sprints on the bike in between like a little circuit and bam, I'm out of there, you know, so I'm getting my total body movement with some really moving some weight, getting my sprint in, my heart rate up, making sure I'm getting that earned dopamine. And then, you know, hitting the cold plunge, which, which I feel like doing something hard every day is important for all of us. [00:46:50] Speaker A: What are some final thoughts before I Let yout Go or something else I should have asked you. [00:46:54] Speaker B: Well, you know what, Brownie, I, I think you just, you know, what you're doing is great stuff. And I think, you know, making sure that, you know, that we're taking care of ourselves, making sure that the youth are understanding that, you know, let's still have fun in baseball. It's a great, it's the greatest sport in the world. Let's make sure that, you know, if you really want to be great, you got to put the work in, you know, and lock in that way and make sure you. I think, I think one of the most important things for life is being grateful. The odds of us being here as a human being are 1 in 420 trillion. It's like winning the Super Powerball nine times. The odds of us not being here are greater than being here. So let's not miss it, man. Let's not miss it. Let's make sure when we waking up in the morning, looking in the mirror, there's a gratitude there. Say, man, I got one more day to do it and do it right and see if I can use my gifts as service to other people. And I tell people all the time, I tell my son who just got drafted by the Blue Jays, man, you're so fortunate to have these abilities. Go out and use them on the field and go out and use your God given abilities to make somebody's day. A father or son or daughter, a girl that might be in the stands coming to see you play and you get into one. Man, appreciate the gifts that you have as service to the world, not just in baseball, but also in life. And you know, treat people the way you want to be treated. And I think that's, those are, those are some concepts that, that have really helped me and I think they can help everybody. [00:48:15] Speaker A: Thanks for your time, sir. Appreciate it. [00:48:17] Speaker B: Okay. You're the best, Brownie. Thanks, man. [00:48:19] Speaker A: I was always a fan of how Sean played the game and his approach to handling life. It's great to connect with someone that has like minded energy and enjoys life to the fullest. I hope you enjoyed this podcast as [00:48:29] Speaker B: much as I did. [00:48:30] Speaker A: Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale and Matt west in the Abyssa office for all the help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via email our Brownlee Day. Twitter, Instagram or TikTok CoachBCA direct message me via the MyABCA app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off with American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks and leave it better for those behind you. Yep. Wait for another day [00:49:12] Speaker B: and the world will always return as your life is never for yearning and you know that way Wait for another D.