Rob Ducey - 13 year MLB veteran, Core Energy Belt

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the ABCA's podcast. I'm your host Ryan Brownlee. A unicorn in every sense of the word. Rolling's new limited Edition Icon Electric Yukorn Bbcor Bats performance is fully charged and will leave the competition mystified. Its seamless two piece carbon construction maximizes barrel size while maintaining optimal stiffness and increased trampoline. With a balanced swing weight and slight end load, the Unicorn is best for athletes seeking speed through the zone. Electrify your swing with the all new Rawlings Icon Electric Unicorn Bat. Happy hitting. This episode is sponsored by Netting Pros. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Netting Professionals specializes in the design, fabrication and installation of custom netting for backstops, batting cages, dugouts, BP screens and ball carts. They also design and install digital graphic, wall padding, windscreen turf, turf protectors, dugout benches, dugout cubbies and more. Netting Professionals is an official partner of the ABCA and continues to provide quality products and services to many high school, college and professional fields, facilities and stadiums throughout the country. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Contact them today at 62707 or infoettingpros.com, visit them online at www.nettingpros.com or check out Netting Pros on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects. Make sure to let CEO Will Minor know that the ABCA sent you. Now onto the podcast. Rob Ducey played for six MLB teams over a 13 year career and was a 2013 inductee into the Canada Baseball hall of Fame. Ducey got his start in the major leagues in 1987 with the Toronto Blue Jays and finished his career with the Montreal Expos in 2001. In 2004, Ducey played in the Summer Olympics for Team Canada, becoming the first Canadian to play for Team Canada, the Blue Jays and the Expos. Upon finishing his playing career, Ducey worked as a minor league coach and professional scout. Ducey currently coaches high school baseball in Florida and is a representative for Core Energy Belt. It's a great episode on hitting at the Major league level. Let's welcome Rob Ducey to the podcast. Here's Rob Ducey, Core Energy belt played for six teams at the major league level over 13 seasons, but also 2013 inductee into the Canada Baseball hall of Fame. So Rob, thanks for jumping on with me. [00:03:02] Speaker B: No, thank you Ryan for having me. [00:03:04] Speaker A: Hey, you had a great big league career. What is the key to having that type of longevity at the major league level? [00:03:13] Speaker B: I think that a lot of things have to go your way. Obviously, you know, a lot of good fortune and not necessarily luck, but luck has to go your way. You have to be with an organization that needs your skill set and your abilities. The personality has to align, especially in the role that I had. I was a, a role player, you know, a utility player type on a roster, typically the 24th or 25th man on a roster. So you, you really had to fit the, the billing for each organization that you're with. I, I've talked to a few people over the, I, I coach high school, so I've talked to a few of my, my kids over the course of the last couple weeks about, you know, because the question was posed, you know, did you ever ask the coach or the manager, you know, why aren't I playing? You know, how can I get in, into the lineup more? And I told him, I said, I went into the office one time, I was called into the office many times, but I initiated a, a meeting with Terry Francona and Terry said, I asked Terry, I said, hey, do you think I could get a start every now and then? Because that year, that particular year, I, I ended up breaking the Phillies pinch hit appearance record. And that's a lot of oh for ones. It was like 80 something at bats, a lot of oh for ones. And he, you know, his answer to me was say, you know, deuce, I'd like to, but you give me a good at bat at the end of the game. And that was good enough for me. So I didn't really, I didn't want to be, you know, the squeaky wheel and the squeaky, you know, because you never know. There's, there's a long line of guys that would love to be in your position, and I didn't feel like I wanted to disrupt that. [00:05:31] Speaker A: How much of that being that 24th or 25th player on the roster and getting that opportunity goes into the manager actually liking you a ton, A ton. [00:05:43] Speaker B: If you're a pain in the butt, if you're causing issues, if you're that type of personality. And I do understand that that type of personality is what makes some players click, you know, and makes them perform to the best, to their best ability. I understand that. However, you also have to realize that there are stars and there's, there's the meat and potatoes of a roster and you are somewhat the garnish. And I, I felt like that's, that's what I did. And no one's, everyone sees the, the beautiful table, but no one sees the screws and the bolts and the glue, they just seen that, see this, the shiny finish and, and the nuts and bolts and the glue hold that table together. And I, I felt like I took it upon myself to, you know, be a good teammate, talk to younger kids, younger players that, and not necessarily kids, but younger players behind the scenes to make them understand what some of the managers, what their, their goals were, what their, their agenda was, that they'd say, hey dude, you know, I don't understand this. Hey, don't take it easy. They have a plan. This is, this is what's going on. And that was a lot of things. As far as veteran leadership behind the. [00:07:19] Speaker A: Scenes, did you have a favorite manager? [00:07:23] Speaker B: Oh man. A favorite manager. Is this being recorded? [00:07:27] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [00:07:30] Speaker B: Favorite manager. [00:07:31] Speaker A: I mean you mentioned Frank Ona and he always seemed like he was a very, he always seemed like he was a player's manager. [00:07:38] Speaker B: Yes, yes he was. He, he by far was, was very, very cordial and nice to me. I had no issue playing for Terry and, and I play for him again if, if possible. But probably my favorite manager of all time, I probably have two, even though one was really, really tough on me was my rookie ball manager, Rocket Wheeler and my A ball manager, Hector Torres. They, they helped me probably more than, than all of the, the managers because I was new to the game. I, I was new to professional sports and they, in my mind they were in my corner and trying to truly help me. So those two guys were probably my, my favorite. [00:08:36] Speaker A: When you say it was tough on you, how is that as far as tough on you? [00:08:43] Speaker B: Just assimilating to the professional way of doing things. Hey, be on time, do this, do this, do this, do this. You can't do that. Being fined for X things that, you know, I was just turned 19 and you know, I was playing professional baseball out on the road and, and we had the 18 hour bus rides and, and going to different little, little towns in the Pioneer League as, as a young group and, and most of those guys, they were first year pro players. So that manager had to instill the professional way of playing and the professional atmosphere that the Blue Jays held in high esteem at that time, it was, we were, we were a very, very good organization at that time. [00:09:46] Speaker A: Who do you feel like impacted you the most on finding your swing and maybe developing your approach or was that you individually? [00:09:55] Speaker B: Well, again, going back, I signed in 84. We didn't even have cages. We didn't have, you know, the, the, the video. We didn't have access to the information that the players have of today, you had to go about it. I think that I made my biggest strides actually in college because Jack Pentelius was. And again he, he was extremely hard on me. I had a 9 o'clock curfew in college and not that I was a bad kid, but he didn't, you know, I would fall asleep on the vans and he thought I wasn't getting my sleep at night. Well, I, I can fall asleep in at any moment in time, even today. So he had a philosophy of hitting and his mechanical approach wastep swing in those three segments and they were three separate segments. And if you didn't do that, you did not play. There was no disguising whether you did it or not, whether you tried to do it or not. And I think that was his, his control factor as far as the offensive side of the game. But it, it did somewhat solidify being balanced and, and having, having, you know, a sense of timing and knowing exactly kind of how to, to have my, my barrel go through the zone. And I think that that helped me a ton. Now once I got to, to pro ball, yes, there were hitting coaches and but for the most part it was produce well and produce and if you produce, you go up the ladder. If you don't, you may have to, you know, find another livelihood. [00:12:01] Speaker A: How long did it take you to develop getting ready for pinch hit appearances? And when was that first? When did you figure out, okay, this is going to be my role? Because obviously you're a great player, probably didn't have to pinch hit a whole lot. How long did it take you to kind of develop, okay, I got to stay ready for this or, or when you knew to, okay, here's when I need to try to get ready to hit. [00:12:27] Speaker B: Well, obviously in the minor leagues you play every day, you hit third, you hit wherever in the lineup you play every day. And no one really, you know, talks to you a little bit about pinch hitting. And because you're an everyday guy and XYZ you go. The first part of my career was in the American League. So, you know, the pinch hitting appearances were few and far between. I think I had more defensive replacement games than I had at bats in some of the years that I played. However, when I went to the Phillies for the first time was the first time I was in a National League and the very first week we were in Miami and Now I'm. This is 90, 99. 99. So many years after we were in my Miami and Chuck Cartier, the bench coach at that time for the Phillies he said, hey Deuce, get ready. This is in the third inning. All right, all right, so I go down the tunnel, get loose, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh no, no. He said, hold on, hold on. Fifth inning, hey, never know. Went down, got loose. Seventh inning. Hey, you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Went down, got ready. Ninth inning again. Well, I didn't get into the game, you know, it never, never turned into me getting, actually getting an appearance. I sat in my locker at the end of that first encounter as far as being ready to pinch it, and I was absolutely mentally gassed. Did not set or did not sit on or get an opportunity to go on the field. So as I sat my, my chair in my, at my locker, I was like, man, I gotta figure this out. I have to figure this out. So what I did going after that was I got ready physically, but mentally it was from the walk from the on deck circle to the plate is where I, I checked in. I already knew who I was going to face and xyz, but I, I couldn't sustain that. If I had to do that for 162 I was in trouble because I just couldn't sustain that, that, that level of mental preparation, you know, five times a day and, and then, you know, get the dry hop, you know. [00:15:11] Speaker A: So it's like a reliever that goes down and warms up and never gets in the game. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Yes, correct. [00:15:17] Speaker A: Now, knowing the National League, the pitchers hit it. Did you kind of just stay with that spot in the order knowing that's probably where you're going to go in, in the pitcher sp. [00:15:28] Speaker B: Yes, yes. You know, we had our regular everyday guys and, and I would get my Sunday, my Sunday day game starts if there was a righty, you know, you'd face the setup guys and you'd face the closers and you'd face the, the starter that was dealing. Very rarely did you have a, a powder puff at bat. And you know, not saying that any major league at bat is a powder puff at bat, but there is a distinct difference between, you know, facing Mariano and facing Johnny Smith. Well, who's Johnny Smith? Exactly. So there is a distinct difference between having to face those guys and as the, a left handed hitter, you know, my, my starts, I would get the Roger Clemens and Mucinas and the Kevin Browns, those types of guys, because they were really, really tough on righties. And so it would give that right handed, you know, whether it's left field or right fielder or center field or whatever, kind of a day off against, you know, a Marquee hall of Fame type pitcher. [00:16:48] Speaker A: How do you handle that mentally, especially at the big league level where it is based on results where you know, okay, you're facing back end guys where, where the results may not be there, even though you're putting together really good at bats and quality of bats that the results may not be there. How, how do you get over that? [00:17:12] Speaker B: Sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get, you, you know, you go down the rabbit hole, man, I'm, I'm 0 for 8. You know, if, you know I'm a bad week for me would be 0 for 8. You know, go for four on Sunday, my day game and then get four pinch hit appearances and go for four in those. Well, when you have limited at bats, it weighs heavily. When you look up at the score, you know the, the scoreboard and it shows your aver embarrassed because you're hitting 122. You have to just take the at bat. Per at bat. You know, it's not an easy role. It's not. It's probably one of the toughest roles in major league baseball to have the success. Now what is deemed success is having a good at. Had a quality at bat. Deemed success. Well, yes, it should be. However, to the player it's like, man, you're all for ache. You know, it's, it's like the. Steve Springer is, is a longtime friend and he used to, you know, talk about chasing hits and you know, you can't go down that rabbit hole. And, and I, I use that a lot with, with my high school team is hey, you can't control the outcome. You can control the process. You can control your thought process, you can control your work ethic. There's things that you can control. You can't control whether you get a hit or not and you can't quantify whether because I got a hit that was a quality at bat. No, no, you got fisted and the wind was blowing and then you dumped it over the third baseman's head, which I take a hit as a hit. As a hit. However, if you go up to the plate and you have a quality at bat and you, you know, you execute your plan, whatever it is, whether or not you get a hit or not is really irrelevant. Yes, in the game you want hits. However, the process is more important. [00:19:24] Speaker A: Was your approach different off righties and lefties? [00:19:28] Speaker B: No, no, not really. I was looking for fastball middle in every almost, I would say almost every at bat throughout the course of my career. It didn't really change. I knew that and when they started throwing split fingers, I was in trouble in the slider, down and in back foot slider. I swung at that one too. But I, I, I felt like, and I'm not a very big, big dude. A lot of guys that I played with were, you know, way, way bigger and stronger. I felt like if I got jammed, it was a sign of weakness. And, and I, I had heard the term and the, and the phrase, hey, good hitters get jammed. And that didn't resonate with me. It didn't make any sense. However, now it's up 60 years old. I understand it and I can explain it to, to hitters now. It's like, hey, sometimes they get beat. Why? Because they allow the ball to travel and, and they're, you know, they're staying inside the ball. Xyz I had the same plan over and over. And because I didn't hit the breaking ball well, I didn't feel like I could drive the outside pitch the outside part of the plate to the opposite field well, so I didn't swing it. So I didn't chase a ton of breaking balls. I didn't, I, you know, again, the slider down and in looked like a fastball till it wasn't. And the split finger, that was a tough pitch for me. But I, I had the same approach. I wasn't going to get beat by the guys, especially the guys that I was facing back into the bullpen and some of the, the starters that, that I had to face a bunch. [00:21:19] Speaker A: How do you get that across to your high school guys from an approach standpoint? You don't see it as much from a plate discipline standpoint, but it is a positive to maybe take a pitch that's a strike. If it's not what you're looking for. [00:21:31] Speaker B: That is very difficult, extremely difficult. The, the hitter of today and maybe even yesteryear, but the hitter of today feels like they can cover the whole plate. Why? Because the instructors say, well, if he throws you in, I want you to turn and burn and hit it over the scoreboard. Okay, that's one plan. If he throws you away, I want you to stay back, hit a nice line drive the other way. That's two plans. Well, if he throws your breaking ball, stay on it and hit a line drive up the middle. That's three plans. That's three different timings, that's three different contact points, and we don't have time for that. So I believe that all, all good hitters have some things in common balance, Patience, a plan, and the willingness and ability to make adjustments, and they all tie in together. But you have to be committed. You have to be committed to what you're doing. [00:22:36] Speaker A: You spent a couple seasons over in Japan with Go ahead. [00:22:41] Speaker B: Oh, you don't, you don't work on it, you don't look for it, and you're not committed to it. That's why you don't pull the ball well. That's why you don't go the other way. Well, so I don't want my, my hitters to have a weakness. I want him to say, oh, this guy's thrown, you know, majority of his pitches inside. Okay, I can look for that. Oh, he's staying away from us. Okay, look for that. He's throwing a ton of breaking balls. Look for it. You're much, you're going to be much more capable of squaring a ball up if your inner timing is, is for a breaking ball and you're looking for that breaking ball. But if you're trying to hit the fastball and the breaking ball and the changeup all at the same time, your timing is not, you're not covering anything. [00:23:33] Speaker A: Did you do much with two strikes? Did you adjust much. [00:23:38] Speaker B: Then. Then I went away. I protected away a lot more. I, I fouled a lot. A ton of pitches off. I just recognized it was, it was a strike. And it's like, okay, you know, not necessarily just play pepper with somebody, but, you know, grind out the at bat and, and be a tough out. Doug Manzalino was, was our field coordinator when I was with the Phillies, and he talked about, you know, taking a piece of that guy with you. Taking a piece of that guy with you. Well, I, I try to instill that with, with our hitters as well. It's like, okay, just, you know, just don't fold. Just don't, you know, treat every at bat like it's gold or it, like it's your last at bat. And some guys adhere to it, some guys don't. [00:24:27] Speaker A: You spent a couple seasons over in Japan, correct? [00:24:30] Speaker B: Correct. [00:24:32] Speaker A: How did, what did that do for the rest of your career? Because it was kind of in the middle, right? [00:24:37] Speaker B: Yes. [00:24:38] Speaker A: What'd that do for the rest of your major league career? [00:24:45] Speaker B: As far as the pitcher, hitter experience? That was the toughest pitching that I faced in my entire career because each one of those starters threw five pitches. They threw strikes, they had command of, of their pitches. They might not have. Some of them might not have had tremendous velocity, however, they, they were like the, the Maddox, and it was boom, boom, boom. Very Very difficult. I, I ended up. In the two years I was there, I had 51 home runs and I came back here and I couldn't find a job. So at that time, if you did go over to Asia, you were, you were on, on an island virtually. But the, the, the scouting and the, the technology and the following of players was not there. If you went over there, well, you might not get back here. And I had a tough time. And finally I, Lee Ilio, who was with Seattle, he got me an opportunity to sign a minor league contract with them and I ended up going to Seattle. And I think that the patience aspect of not only just my game, but in my life, that helped me a lot. Being over there. Because it was a lonely experience over there. [00:26:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Completely different culture. Correct, Correct. [00:26:26] Speaker B: Great people, great. I, I enjoyed the, the, the, the country I enjoyed. I, I've been over there several times since. I, I truly enjoy it. But as a player and the type of player that, that I enjoyed the team chemistry, the camaraderie, the fellowship as much and that just was not there. We were there to help the gaijin, we were there to help them win and that was it. So there wasn't the team bonding that takes place here. [00:27:06] Speaker A: Team Canada, your best baseball experience. [00:27:11] Speaker B: You know what? I think that my, my, the highlight of my career and I've been part of many, many, you know, just small segments and experiences at the major league level. But qualifying for the Olympics in 2004 with, with the Canadian national team, that was incredible. Being, you know, being an Olympian representing your country, there was a, a common bond between the, the players on that team. You're playing for your country and, and just the pride of that. Singing the, the national anthem on the bus on the way back to the, the, the hotel after qualifying for the Olympics, that was probably, and still I, I still have feelings, you know, that, that bubble up that man, that was awesome. [00:28:10] Speaker A: And also first Canadian to play for the Blue Jays and the Expos. Correct? [00:28:15] Speaker B: Yes. I don't know whether I was the first, but I, I think that there's only three. I think Matt Stairs and, and Dennis Boucher I believe are the only. Other two, I believe. I'm not sure, but that for me, okay, I played for the two Canadian teams and wouldn't take any, wouldn't do anything different than what I did. However, being the first Toronto born player ever to play for the Blue Jays, I think that for me was pretty cool. [00:28:53] Speaker A: You know, with being a pinch hitter mostly, but then also getting starts. How are you able to stay sharp defensively with outfield play. [00:29:03] Speaker B: I was a, an absolute demon during batting practice. So I would go from left field to right field to center field, because at any given moment, you know, whether it's Griffey or Buhner or, or whoever else, Glenn Allen Hill, you know, tweak a hamstring, get hit in the hand, what have you, I had to go out and, and play in, in those positions. So I needed to, to really hone my skills. The BP was my defensive game and I, I felt like I could play. And that was probably one of the biggest reasons why I did stay around a long enough time was I was okay in all three of those positions, which is kind of tough to find. You know, I threw good enough to play right. I, you know, I ran good enough to place center. And left field is the toughest position because of the angles and, and whatnot. And I was a good enough defender to play left. [00:30:11] Speaker A: How are you able to keep your arm up? I mean, obviously go through bp, you go through infield, outfield, then you sit, you might sit for 6, 7, 8 innings and then have to go in and play defense. How are you able to get your arm up? [00:30:24] Speaker B: Oh, there's a net and balls. [00:30:26] Speaker A: I love it. [00:30:27] Speaker B: The T station. [00:30:29] Speaker A: Yes. [00:30:29] Speaker B: The guys would be like, okay, well where am I going to throw? Well, throw them to the net, bro. [00:30:33] Speaker A: Yep. [00:30:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And as a coach now I get these questions, well, what should I do this and how. No, dude, just go over there, do this, do that. You got to figure out some of those things. And I, you know, whatever. When the game started, I was, I was into the game. I watched the game my, the first three innings or so. My job, you know, self appointed, but players listen to me. My job was to kind of pick up some tendencies and xyz and if I saw something, I go down to the bench, coach and tell them. But players would come up, okay, deuce, what do you got? And they would expect me to have something. Well, there's a little flare. There's, there's a difference between where, you know, his glove does this or this. They would expect me to have something. You know, his timing is 3. When, when guys are on base, you know, count of three or count of two or whatever. You know, very rarely does he slide step or, you know, every other pitch, he slide steps. So there needed to be something. So you have to also be a student of the game and you, you have to be all in. You're in the, at the ballpark, you know, the game is Two and a half, three hours, whatever it is. You have to be all in for those two and a half hours. There's plenty of time to, you know, talk about X and Y and Z and, and play video games and, you know, watch you. You know, I think the first time I ever saw guys utilize the, the video with two players was a rod and shilling. And they would have, they would actually. And I admired it. And I, I, you know, I, I didn't do it, I didn't do this aspect. But Schilling would watch his, the pitches that he threw. He's got to start against Colorado and he would pull up the film and he, he, he'd have all the sliders and all the fastballs he threw to Cargo or, you know, Vinnie or whoever was playing at that time. I don't think Cargo was there at that time. However, whoever was in, in that lineup say, okay, yes, I, I need to throw that here. So they were like relentless. A Rod had his at bats against whoever, Clemens or, or whoever we're facing at that next series and they'd be doing this on the plane. Hey, I was playing cards, having fun and hanging out. They were like true students of the game and that's why they were so good. They were like, they were all in. Not that I wasn't all in, but I wasn't all in all the way like that, so. And most players weren't. But getting back to everyone during the course of the game, you have to pay attention. You have to. Because it'd be like, hey. And my kids lose opportunities if, if I say, hey, Donnie, get ready. And they don't move. If they don't get up out of the seat, okay, forget it. It's okay. So the importance of okay, when my name is called, I'm ready. I know where my helmet is, I know where all my stuff is. Okay. You know, get ready for what? No, just get your body loose. Okay. For what? Get your body loose. Don't worry about for what. All right, if I say go, you know, go throwing a bullpen, okay, go hit, okay. But I might just say get your body loose to go play defense or to pinch run or, or what have you. [00:34:31] Speaker A: So that's also the key of being a bench player too. And coming off late is paying attention to pitchers tendencies because with pinch running appearances, obviously with your, your speed, you're going to be asked to steal bases. So you need to stay in tune to what's going on with the pitcher. [00:34:46] Speaker B: That wasn't part of my game really. It was Not. It was early. It was early. However, had I known, and, and we all say this, had I known the things that I do know now, then it would have been totally different. I tell. Tell people all the time, had I known, you know, I, I learned how to hit after I was done playing. I, I did. I had some physical movements that I just couldn't figure out how to change them, how to fix them. And it got to the point where I. Later on in my career, as bad as this may sound, but, you know, now I'm. I'm. I'm a veteran at the major league level, and I go to a new team, and the hitting coaches, hey, Rob, you're working under the ball. Well, I had heard that for 15 years. And the statement, all due respect came up, said, listen, all due respect, if you can't tell me how to fix it, don't tell me I have a problem, because you're just weighing in on a negative. If you can help me fix this. Porphy Vors. Yes, please, by all means. However, don't build on the negative. I'm. I've gotten to this point where, where it's like, okay, I battle with what I have and, and my kids, you know, eat, and my livelihood depends on what I'm doing right now. If you can't tell me and explain to me how to fix it, because I needed to know the why, and don't tell me I have a problem. And then our discussions after that were never about hitting because I, I, you know, it's not that, you know, and we liked each other. We got along fine, but we never talked about him because it was like, okay, if you can't tell me how to fix this, I, I don't want to hear it. [00:36:55] Speaker A: If you were your hitting coach, how would you fix it? [00:36:58] Speaker B: Oh, easy, easy. What I did easily. So they talk about dropping your hands, and, And I did. I worked under the ball. So my very first move. And I tried to fix it so often, you know, with my hands up here, hands here, here, here, here. And it was not my hands. Our body is. Is on. On balls, you know, our, Our joints. So my very first move, when I went to attack the baseball, my front hip would slide. It would slide, which created this, which at the, at the top. Now all of a sudden, I'm working this way, and it had nothing to do with my hands. It had nothing to do with, with my bat path or what have you. It changed my bad path. So how I fixed it. I'm getting ready to go to the olympics in, in 2004, prior to the, the qualifying tournament. And I'm in a cage. I'm at Eastlake Little League now. I've been retired now. 2002, spring training, a little bit of independently baseball. And then I came home. I was. I started working with Little League kids because it was the first time I coached in Little League with, With my son's team. And so I was like, you know what? Let me try some of the things that I talk about, because at that stage, you have to tell little Johnny from his nose to his toes what to do. So I'm hitting, I'm by myself. I'm hitting balls off the tee. Now. I could not hit a ball off the tee to save my life in my best years in the big leagues. Now, I didn't have great years, but the best that I ever was in the big leagues, I couldn't hit line drives consistently off the tee. I work under. I hit the tee and pop it up. I might even miss the bow net. So I was like, okay, let me try this. And so centered balance, you know, stay stacked. Boom. Line drive. I was like, come on, line drive, line drive, line drive. I was like, there is no way it was that simple. All I had to do was make sure that, That I was stacked, keep my, my lower half, my, My hips ins and my shoulders inside my feet, and I, I could move this way as opposed to moving this way. It was that simple. And I, I was looking around to see who I could tell because it was, you know, 20. 20 years of, of me pounding my head against the pavement trying to figure it out, and there was nobody for me to tell that I. I found it. I fixed it. So that was the. I. I have a lot of different analogies for hitters because we have to have a clear image, the mental image in our mind to execute what we want to do, whether it's physically or mentally. I, I want them to have a clear vision and focus on what they're trying to do. And that makes it so much easier. If you're trying to do different things, it doesn't work. Doesn't work. [00:40:27] Speaker A: Did you know you were going to get into coaching once you're finished playing? [00:40:32] Speaker B: No. No. However, I got. I got stories for days as, as most guys do. We were in, In Yankee Stadium. I just got. I got released by the Phillies. I got picked up by the Expos, and I met the team in New York. So the, the first couple days I was not on the roster, I had to go through my physical xyz I was down in the cage prior to our. The Expo. Expo Yankee game. And David justice was in there, and I played with Davis, David over in. In Venezuela, and he was struggling at the time. I was like, hey, dude, what's going on? Blah, blah, blah. I was like, man, what's going on with you, bro? And he was like, yeah, xyz. And, well, as I'm talking to him, Bernie Williams comes in, and you. You can only imagine, you know, a half hour before a major league game, that that process is very, very dear to major league players, that they. They're in a routine. This is what I do. This is how I go about it. Bing, bing, bang. Hey, Bernie, what's going on? You know, obviously played against these guys for a long time. Hey, Rob, what's happening? And then I started to explain to David what I see with Bernie. And Bernie's standing there, and David is standing there, and I'm kind of holding court, blah, blah, blah. And in comes Jeter. Now we're about 20, maybe 15 minutes before game time, and, hey, Derek, how are you? Hey, Rob, what's going on? Blah, blah, blah. And he stops. Now I have David Justice, Bernie Williams, and Derek Jeter at the time when they were on the top of the pyramid standing there, and I'm holding court and I'm a nobody. I'm a zero to the left. And they let me talk for probably three or four minutes. And at that time, that's like, you know, time where is super valuable for a major league player. And when they left, they went out and I stayed in the cage, and I was like, holy crap, what just happened? I didn't realize that until later on in that day what really, truly happened. And then that was the time where I thought, well, maybe there is something to life after baseball as far as a player and being a coach. [00:43:17] Speaker A: The changes here in the last five years to major league and minor league baseball, have they been good for baseball? [00:43:23] Speaker B: The changes? [00:43:24] Speaker A: Yeah. So rule play changes, the draft changes, how the minor leagues are structured. Now, has that been good for baseball? [00:43:34] Speaker B: You know, what, you know, the pizza box bases and, you know, it's their game. They have the. The. The gavel. It's their rules. Apparently, you know, people smarter than me feel that it. That enhances the game. It. Whether I like it or not, you know, I. The pitch clock for me is. Is one of those things where, man, if I'm a pitcher or if I'm a hitter and there's a time in a game where, you know, pressure obviously is Mounting where I might need an extra 10 seconds to clear my mind and to, to regroup. I don't got it to, I don't got it. And, and a lot of times that happens where it's like man, they need, they need to, to press reset. However, they don't have time to do that or the man, I just don't feel comfortable throwing that pitch at this time. No, no, no. Yes. And by the time they get to the yes, they're out of time. We want, in my opinion, if I'm, if I'm a fan watch watching a game, I want my team and my players to be confident and fully committed to what they're trying to execute. Now, whether that takes an extra six seconds or not, okay, fine. But if I'm, if I'm watching the players on the field and they're just kind of going through the motions because it's speed up rules and it affects their ability to execute, then I have a problem with that. [00:45:22] Speaker A: Did your view of how to watch the game change when you got into scouting? [00:45:29] Speaker B: Yes and no. I think that actions and I religiously went to batting practices, you know, daily because I was on the pro side. So I would go to, to batting practices. I'd watch how guys stretched where they would, you know, whether they were sitting off in the corner especially. You know, you can identify guys that, that you, you really like for, you know, the physical attributes or just, you know, for whatever reason. But I talk to the, the, the managers about how they interact with their, their teammates. I watched their attitudes on the benches during, during play. I was, I tried to cover all those basis as far as, as making sure that if I liked a player there weren't red flags. So you know, when you're, when you're on the field, there's, there's some guys that, man, they're just not really, really nice people, but they're really good baseball players. You know, there's, there's guys that aren't really good workers, but they're really good at 7:00. And as a scout, you detail those things. Hey, this guy, he's not gonna light you up when you go watch him. However the, the body of his work, this is what he's going to be able to, how he's going to be able to help our team win an extra three games or five games or 10 games, depending on the role that player has. [00:47:17] Speaker A: And you scouted the Pacific Rim, correct? [00:47:21] Speaker B: I did. [00:47:21] Speaker A: Is player development different in the Far East? [00:47:24] Speaker B: Oh, no, no question, no question. [00:47:28] Speaker A: What are they doing there that, that Americans need to hear what are they doing different in the Pacific Rim? [00:47:33] Speaker B: That America reps, reps, reps. And not just reps. Perfect reps, perfect reps, perfect reps. Infields flawless. You know, solid throws, cutoff man through the cutoff man, one hop to home plate, double play feeds catchers thrown to second. There is a reason why the Asian group has done so well at the WBC level is because of how they go about it. Now when you're talking about premier level players playing against each other. MLB stars, tremendous Latin American MLB stars. However, the Asian work ethic was totally different. We were as, as a foreign player, I was on a different schedule than, than they were. When I got to the ballpark, they were already on the field for an hour and a half and, and especially our young guys and they just worked, worked, worked, worked, worked. And I would even ask him in different scenarios, I'd ask my, my outfield coach. I was like, hey, if we did it this way, it's, it'll be, you know, a little quicker, a little bit more efficient and oh no, no, no, Doocy. Oh no, no. This is how we do it. So the, the, he said, oh, the American players can do it. Why? Because you're, you know, physically stronger. Blah, blah, blah. I was like, man, they're really, really regimented in what they do. The, the, the term Japanese style over there. I heard that quite. Oh no, no, no Japanese style. I was like, all right, you know, okay. But they didn't expect me to adhere to that. You know, you do your thing, but you better produce. If you don't produce, sayonara. So I, I didn't have an issue with that at all and I respected that, that part of, of how they, they go about it. You know, the, the, and there's a reason why, you know, you make practice perfect. It makes the game much easier. [00:50:01] Speaker A: So what would you like to see? What would you like to say to amateur coaches to help players get to the next level, whether it be college or pro? [00:50:12] Speaker B: Make sure that players aspirations match their ability. We have players and. Hey man, and, and, and I, I do understand the rankings and, and social media and kind of the, you know, the not necessarily bragging rights. But, but just, you know, I want to tell my, my followers that, that my, you know, I'm going to, to, you know, D1 and as far as the labels, don't worry about the, the labels. You know, make sure your players. Because I want my player. I heard a, a number from one of the college coaches that I was talking to, and he said, like, 68 of all freshman baseball players don't get past the first semester. And I want my players to be at a place where they're. It's a good fit for the player and that they can compete well. I don't want them to be over their. Their skis, because if they are, it's not going to last. It's not going to. It's not going to last at all. So make sure that. That that player is in. In the. The right. On the right shelf, whether you're King Louis V. The, you know, €300 whiskey or your draft beer, where. Wherever you fall, it doesn't matter. As you can tell, I've, I've said this a few times. It's super important that they, they understand where they fit on the grand scheme of things because, oh, yeah, I want to be like Griffey. Well, I wanted to be like Griffey. I wasn't going to be like Griffey, so I needed to make sure that, yeah, there's. Okay, I'd like to be there, but in all reality, I'm here. So let's be the best here that you can be. [00:52:21] Speaker A: How'd you get involved with core energy Belt? [00:52:26] Speaker B: A few years ago, I, I was asked to, hey, this Japanese belt company is coming over here to the United States. And they, you know, can you help us kind of break into Major League Baseball and kind of some grassroots programs? I say, what is it? Well, it's a baseball belt that, you know, supports your abdominal muscles and your. It helps with your posture. And I was like, it's a belt. You know, super skeptic. You know, my skepticism meter is pretty high because I get approached quite often as, as most professional athletes do. And it's like, no, you know, I'm going to send you a sample. So they sent me a sample, and I, you know, I cut it and sized it, and I was like, all right, you know, is this. What's in this. What's the. What's this made out of? And it's, it's a woven material that there's no copper fit. It's not copper fit. It's not. It's just a blended weave of material that expands and contracts as you move, so it, it supports your. Your spine and your abdominal muscles. Inner, inner abdominal pressure consistent throughout the course of your movements. And I could not believe how. How I felt with it on. And I couldn't do some of the things that I do now, like, on the field as a High school coach, you gotta cut the grass and move this and do that and do, you know, turn over the clay and just different things that, that I have to do. If I didn't wear this, I wear my, my, my belts underneath my, my T shirt and underneath my shorts. Not even in my baseball pants. I wear them baseball pants. Anytime I would wear a belt. I now have one of our belts on because I know what it can do, how it makes me feel and it's, it's a great name. Just like Perfect Game is. It is a great name for your organization. It's a great name because. For our belts. Because when I do have it on, I do feel like I can work longer. Why? Because everything is in line. It helps support the kinetic chain. [00:55:03] Speaker A: Kurt Birkins in our office wears his every day. I wear mine golfing and I wear it when I work camps. So I do wear, I do like it. Obviously you guys did the ad read with us, but I do like wearing it. Same thing. I do feel different with it on and I do feel like it helps a ton when I wear it. [00:55:20] Speaker B: But if you were to tell someone that, they'd say a belt is a belt is a belt, you know. And so that is the hurdle that we've, we've. And I believe that we're halfway over that hurdle, especially at the major league level, that these teams, these players are now requesting the belt. And we have some teams, you know, the Dodgers are our biggest major league client. We, if something makes me feel better, I want it now. Whether it's. And I go back to the skepticism, whether it's a placebo or not, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. And I know it's not because my wife wears it at her desk. She, she had, has had some back issues and every time she, that something flares up, she puts it on done. So it's, it's not just a baseball belt. We have casual belts. We have golf belts in this country. There is a back issue that's very, very prominent. And whether you are a businessman that travels, whether you're a truck driver, whether you're a pilot, whether how this belt makes you feel is totally different than any other belt that you've ever worn? [00:56:46] Speaker A: For sure. Do you have a fail forward moment? Do you have something that you thought was going to set you back but looking back now, it helped you move forward? [00:56:56] Speaker B: Injury. Injury. I've had seven knee operations that ruptured my Achilles. The knee operations didn't necessarily, they slowed me down, didn't stop me. The, the ruptured Achilles when I did. I did in. In Atlanta. And so I'm on the trainer's table, and doctor comes in, all right, hey, you know, talking to the trainer as a player, you're kind of the third party. The. They don't even talk to you. They're talking to each other. And, and, you know, yeah, it's full rupture, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, doc, all right, what's that mean? What's the rehab time? And he looked at me at my age, I think it was 36. He said, Ah, you might not, you know, make it back from this one. And I said, no, no, no. What's the reason? Because I, I. In my mind, it's like, no, I've come back from everything that's. That's happened to me. And I came back the following spring training. I did. I signed with the Cardinals, and it just wasn't right. So I did make it back. However, at my age and the type of player that. That I was, I just couldn't run well enough. You can't run. You better hit 40. If you don't hit 40, you know, it's probably over. Well, it is over. And men's softball is in your future. So injury was probably the thing that diverted my path the most. [00:58:43] Speaker A: How do you get through that? Being injured? I mean, how do you get over that mental hump? Like, say you have surgery, you're coming back. How do you get over that mental hump that, okay, I'm healthy enough to. To get back to it and. And go full. And go 100 here. [00:58:59] Speaker B: It's sometimes doesn't happen overnight. There. There is a mental. There is a fear of re. Injury. There is a fear, and everyone's different. So there is no book. Just kind of like kids, right? They say, oh, yeah, buy this book and this really. My kid was up all night. My other kids slept all day. My, you know, everyone is different. And I think that it's a trust factor to where it's like, you know, what if. If I go, I'm gonna go out full steam. I should be healthy. I should. You know, it's been a long, long enough time. Everything's fixed. The doctor says I'm good, the therapist says I'm good, but it just doesn't feel right. The apprehension is there. Then you are not going to be the best version of you. You are blocking your or impeding your ability to be the best player you can be. Are you. Are you going to impede your Best version of you by doing that. Or never reach back to where you were before, never get back to that level again. Either way, that's a lose, lose scenario. So how you deal with it, Obviously everyone's different, but if you have the mindset, hey, I know I'm healthy now, just break through that mental barrier then, then it's all good. If it blows again, then, you know, it's, it wasn't meant to be. As long as you're healthy, as long as it's healed. [01:00:54] Speaker A: Do you have any morning or evening routines that you like, that you do every day? Could be working out, could be habits. Get any evening or morning routines you like? No, because you're still in great shape. [01:01:08] Speaker B: That's why I asked. You're in great shape. No, I, I get this all the time. My wife gets pissed off. [01:01:13] Speaker A: Good genetics. [01:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Body built by Ronald McDonald. I very fortunate during the off season as a player, I'd, I'd gain a pound, you know, two pounds. Now, you know, if, if I really, really get, get at the, the Cheetos and the Cokes and all that, I may gain, you know, six or seven pounds. And then I'll look at myself in the mirror, be like, ah, let's go. And I could stop that for a week and it's gone. So very, very fortunate in that regard. As far as routine. No, as far as thoughts, ton of them, you know, and I think that's more my routine, especially with, with my high school program. It's like, how can I get Johnny to that junior college? How can I get Billy more appealing? He's a, you know, he's the left handed pitcher that throws 73 miles an hour. How, how are we going to be able to get him to, to that school or that level? I put in a ton of time trying to figure that out. And then I present whatever I come up with, I present to, to that player. And I think that that consumes a ton of my time. That's kind of how I go about it. [01:02:51] Speaker A: Love it. Rob, thanks so much for your time. You got some final thoughts? Final thoughts for us. [01:02:58] Speaker B: Man, this, this game is a great game. Everyone. You know, for whatever reason, I shouldn't have have been part of Major League Baseball based on where I grew up and how I grew up and xyz, but I think everyone's put on this earth for, for different reasons. This, this is a, you know, the American pastime. It's a tremendous game. Don't lose sight of, of that. It is a game. And, and don't lose sight of, of the dreams that this game has created over time. And you know, and people say, oh, I'm living the dream. Well, I have lived the, you know, the dream and I am now trying to help kids with that aspiration and that dream. So just keep on playing. Don't, don't let this game, you know, wither and die on on the vine. [01:04:02] Speaker A: Love it. Thank you sir. Appreciate you time. Thank you. Thanks again to Rob for recording with me and Core Energy Belt for their support of the ABCA podcast. Go out and purchase Core Energy Belt. I use them on the golf course and work in camps and clinics. It's a great addition to the wardrobe. Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale and Matt west and the ABCA office for all the help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via [email protected] Twitter, Instagram or TikTok CoachBabca or direct message me via the MyABCA app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off for the American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks and leave it better for those behind you Wait for another. [01:04:58] Speaker B: And the. [01:04:59] Speaker A: World will always return as your love. [01:05:04] Speaker B: Is never for yearning and you know that way. [01:05:13] Speaker A: Wait for another day.