[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the ABCA's podcast.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: I'm your host Ryan Brownlee.
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[00:02:09] Speaker A: Next up on the ABCA podcast is Executive Vice President and General Manager of the Kansas City Royals, J.J. piccolo. Piccolo became only the seventh general manager in franchise history September 2021. Piccolo was the Vice President, Assistant General Manager, player personnel from 2015 to 2021 and served as the Royals assistant General Manager, Scouting and player development from 2008 to 2015. Piccolo joined the Royals front office in 2006 after spending seven seasons with the Atlanta Braves organization.
Piccolo started on the college side coaching three seasons at George Mason University and two seasons at George Washington University.
It was a phenomenal episode on organizational leadership. A welcome JJ Piccolo to the podcast here with JJ Piccolo, Executive Vice President and General Manager of the Royals. Came over from the Braves in 2006 and coached five years of college baseball before that, but we go back to the early 2000s. So JJ, thanks for jumping on with me.
[00:03:11] Speaker C: Yeah, no problem. Been looking forward to this. Taking us a while to get together.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: It's just how it is.
It's the way things go. And congrats on last year, by the way. One of the biggest turnarounds in baseball now.
[00:03:23] Speaker C: Thank you thank you. A lot went into it, and a lot like going into 24, we wanted to forget about 23. So in 25, we're trying to say, let's not worry about 24.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: Hey, do you think things work out for you this way if you would have stayed at NC State as a player?
[00:03:40] Speaker C: You know what? I think about that fairly often. And no, you know, it's one of those weird things in life that, you know, one disappointment led to. You know, a lot of really good things happen to me in my life. I mean, number, number one and most important, you know, I met my wife at George Mason. And, you know, secondly, it was, you know, there was a start of a long relationship with Dayton Moore, who was an assistant coach at George Mason at that time. So, you know, that's something I actually share with a lot of, you know, young players now that you never know what's going to happen in your life. That's going to be that thing that changes the direction of your life. And in that case, for me, it was about hitting about 210 and not playing very well and losing my starting spot at NC State and moving on to another school. That led to a lot of great things.
[00:04:27] Speaker A: But the landscape of college baseball was different back then because the Colonial was extremely competitive league back then.
[00:04:33] Speaker C: Yeah, it was. And you know what? I had this false sense of what I was getting into at George Mason. You know, I'm coming out of the ACC where, you know, at that time, Georgia Tech was really good and UNC was really good. I mean, you know, top 10 programs. We had a good team at NC State and, you know, really had lower expectations than I should have. But I quickly realized that the Colonial was really good. I mean, it was, you know, very different. Like most of these conferences, very different at the time. But VCU was good. Old Dominion was good. UNC Wilmington was good. William Mary was good. I mean, it was James Madison. I mean, there were so many good teams in that conference. East Carolina was the other one. So it was a really tough conference. I played with and against a lot of really good players.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: You spent five years coaching in college. What drew you to scouting?
[00:05:30] Speaker C: You know, I really never expected to get into scouting. You know, Dayton and I had crossed paths quite a bit when he had moved into the scouting world and I was now recruiting. And that's kind of where our relationship took a different turn because we wasn't coach player anymore, and there was just a lot of mutual respect. And he gave me a call.
I was actually considering going to East Carolina at the time. And he gave me a call and said, hey, we have this scout school down in Florida for about 10 days. I'd really like you to come. So I went there with very low expectations, but within about three days, I just kind of fell in love with the evaluation process and the structure of it, the 20 to 80 scale.
You know, being around veteran scouts and listening to them speak about the game, there was some sort of purity about it that I liked. I did. My biggest challenge for many years was not being in uniform in the competition every day. It was just a different form of competition. It was very different, but I enjoyed it. And to this day, it was my favorite job I've ever had. I just really enjoyed being an area scout. There's a lot of independence in it. There's a lot of accountability that are on area scouts. You take a lot of pride in, you know, more of the 10th round on draft picks than you do the first couple rounds, because there's a lot of people that are involved with those picks. But, you know, when I had a couple of guys that were later picks get to the major leagues, it was a pretty special moment, you know, not only for the player, but, you know, for our organization. But just in some sense of accomplishment, what I had done as a scout.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: I mean, how much of the pro path as a player and also scout executive is due to luck?
[00:07:19] Speaker C: A lot of it. It's opportunity. And, you know, it's that old saying when. When preparation meets opportunity, you know, you might consider yourself lucky. But a lot of it is. It's just. It's a lot of circumstances and happenstance, but so many things in our lives are the same way. We just don't realize it when we're going through, you don't realize it. And, you know, I've been very fortunate that I had opportunities that were presented in different ways. I mean, even. Even when I left playing, I wasn't a real good player. I got to spend one summer in the minor leagues and, you know, my. My catching coach, and at that time, he was the bench coach in Oneonta, New York, was Rob Thompson, the manager of the Phillies right now. And I remember having a real tough conversation with him about this coaching opportunity I had. And even though I wasn't playing, he was very encouraging that, you know, you need to stick this out and play because the experiences you're going to get as a player are only going to help you as a coach. You can always go coach or scout or whatever it may be. You know, we Kind of laugh now. I didn't listen to him. I took advantage of, you know, the grad assistant position at gw and certainly glad that I did because I had a great experience there.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: Part of that, too, is knowing when your time is done to get started on the other thing, too, because it gave you an opportunity to get on the other side quicker, where if you stick it out for five or six years playing, you maybe don't get those opportunities.
[00:08:47] Speaker C: So it would have been. It's a miracle when anybody plays in the major leagues because there's so few of them. There's still only like 23,000 ever that played in major leagues. But for me to get there, I realized before I even signed it this is probably a fleeting dream of mine. As much as you hate to admit it, you realize it. I mean, players. Players are good evaluators. And you look around and you see the talent that's around you, and you start to realize, you know what, I may be a little bit short. It doesn't mean you don't keep getting after it, but that's a tough. That's a tough road. And I realized it pretty early. I'll say that this probably isn't my cards to play in Yankee Stadium for.
[00:09:25] Speaker A: The Yankees, but you've also done a really good job at every stop that you've been at, too. And for me, as long as I've known you, you weren't the type of person that was looking for the next thing. You were just doing a good job at the job that you were doing at the time.
[00:09:41] Speaker C: Yeah, actually, behind me to my left is a little placard my mom gave me a long time ago. It says, whatever you are, be a good one. It's an Abraham Lincoln quote or alleged Abraham Lincoln quote, but I really have taken a lot of pride in that because if you're too worried about the next thing, you're not going to be excellent in what you're right now. And it's hard to be elite in anything you're doing, but it's certainly harder if you're not focused on the here and now, because that's what's most important. That's the right way to. To serve your organization. You know, worry about your job and, you know, good things will happen. You know, it may take a little bit longer. I know right now, you know, in. I'll say this with. With some humility. Today's generation wants things to happen more quickly because that's, you know, they're. They're in that, you know, I'VE heard it referred to as the microwave generation. You know, you pop food in microwave and you get it cooked really fast instead of the, the meal that took all day to cook. That that's how kids have grown up. I've got kids that are in their 20s and that's the way they grew up and you can't hold it against them. But you know, in, in the reality of the sports world, you know, these opportunities are far and far and I mean in between. So you just never know what's going to happen. You got to have some level of patience. But if you focus on what you're doing right now, you got a better chance to achieve whatever your long term goals are.
[00:11:05] Speaker A: How have your skills developed over time and as you evolved with new jobs, how have your skills developed?
[00:11:11] Speaker C: The thing, the thing that, you know, I'll say I take pride in or I've realized early on, you know, it's a people business, being able to relate to people. I, I, that's something I really try to focus on understanding. You know, what motivates one person may not motivate the next person. So yeah, you have your, you know, your hard skills. You know, scouting, it's evaluating pitchers and hitters and when you're coaching it's, you know, for me it was catching and hitting, you know. You know, to me they're more hard skills, technical skills, but then the soft skills that, you know, are necessary to do these jobs. You know, I've taken a lot of pride in it and probably without me realizing it may have been the reason, I've gotten some opportunity in this game that allowed for some upward mobility. But, you know, the soft skills of communication and leadership are really important and I've been around a lot of good people that have helped me develop that.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: And with naming Brian Bridges as a scouting director, who I feel like is an old school scout, I know he's got a good blend of both. I thought you guys had a great draft last year. I mean, two of my favorite with Beam and Caglion were two of my favorite college players last year. I thought you guys did a great job in the draft last year.
[00:12:21] Speaker C: Well, I appreciate that and like I always say, we'll know in about five years how great it was. But, but Brian, Brian's a veteran. He's done a great job in adapting what the, what's in the game now. We just had a couple days of midterm meetings, mid season meetings, and just the way he accumulates information from R and D, our medical side, our behavioral Science side, it truly is a collaboration to put that board together. And the players you just mentioned ranked clearly very high on our board, but it was with a lot of input. And that's where I think the game has changed, the draft has changed, and Brian's done a great job in adapting with it.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: And you just mentioned 3orgs. Is that the biggest difference of professional baseball now as it was back then, where it seems like there's a lot more collaboration with a lot of different departments on decisions?
[00:13:14] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, no, that's. That's. I say it a lot. I say it often, you know, you know, addressing our staff at the end of spring training, you know, there. There's about 160 people in that room, you know, and there was. It wasn't too long ago that it was. You know, when you're talking about coaches, there's three coaches on each minor league team. There was, you know, the manager, pitching coach, hitting coach, a trainer. You might have a strength coach. Now there's two strength coaches, two pitching coaches, two hitting coaches. And then you throw in performance science, behavioral science. We have a staff and player engagement department. You know, there's so many other people. And when you're trying to get a player to realize his true potential, every one of those departments plays a part in the development of those players. And that's. That's what's really different and trying to be on the same page. It's. It's really, really challenging. You know, Mitch Myers, currently our director of player development, I tell them all the time, the job you have right now is vastly different than the job I had in 2005, and it was the title. But he's got so many people, he's got to manage that there's really not enough time in the day, which leads to more hiring. You know, so he's got an assistant and other people that are senior directors and directors, as opposed to just having coordinators. If you're not able to collaborate and communicate at a very, very high and effective level, you're gonna. You're gonna have a really tough time developing players or in the scouting department making the right decisions. Because there are all facets in different ways to evaluate players to come up with the right decisions. You, of course, you won't know that decision until down the road. But in the moment, you have to consider all of those, you know, different inputs that you get.
[00:15:01] Speaker A: How do you streamline all of that information?
So maybe the players may be getting one message because there's a lot of information coming from a Lot of different directions. How do you kind of whittle that down so the player's not getting overloaded with, with a bunch of information?
[00:15:16] Speaker C: Yeah, we do our best through, through there. Of course there's meetings, face to face meetings and spring training and instructionally that's easy because we're together but once we break for the season it's very difficult. So you know our lines of communication, we use Slack, we, we have an app called teamworks but then also our in house system houses so many different of our player plans are all the different plans. You know, I can go in weekly and read anything from what the pitching coach, the manager, the trainer, the strength coach, the nutritionist, what they say about any one player over one, one week's time. So it is a lot of collaboration. There's not enough, there's not enough time in the day for those people to talk every day. So we've got to lean on our in house system to house that information and we have ways of flagging things. If somebody is just an easy one, somebody's put on some weight, you know that's going to be flagged, you know, so the strength coach, the coaches, they're all aware of it and that's probably where the discussion takes place. And they do have weekly meetings. It's, you know, you try to streamline it to an hour with each club but it's, it's quite a bit of work. But you know, the ways, the different ways that we communicate is really the only way we can truly effectively communicate with one another.
[00:16:41] Speaker A: How are you balancing in the minor leagues between winning because we want to teach them to win, but also development. How do you balance that in the minors?
[00:16:49] Speaker C: Yeah, so that's been a big stress point for us over the last two years.
You know, we went through a major change in that we implemented so many different, the departments, the technology, hiring people that had the expertise in areas that I didn't have or hitting coaches didn't have just to get that side or that opinion.
So now you try to bring all those people, people together.
It can be complicated and you can lose, you can lose a player. So there, there is a lot of noise and there's also outside noise from different people in players lives which is very normal. But when it comes down to it, our emphasis was between, you know, at a 7 o'clock game, between two and six. That's all about the individual's development. You know, we're going to do everything we can from side sessions, video sessions, cage routines, defensive routines. That's all individual player. We might mix in a team fundamentals somewhere in there over a six game homestand. But then when it's 7:00, this is all about going to play. And we want our players to have the mindset that we're going to win that game tonight. No different when they were 10 years old. You know, it's the same thing. We're going to win that game. You know, that should be the player's focus, where the development comes in place. Easy wanted pitch counts. You know, if we want a guy to pitch three times in a week, a reliever, well, we can't take him past 35 pitches, you know, on Tuesday. So, you know, the development there is that there's a plan over the course of the week, he may throw one inning on Tuesday, two innings on Thursday, come back Sunday, throw one inning, he gets his three outings. The player doesn't necessarily know that, you know, but that's the plan. That, that is the player development side of things. And then what the players need to do is just go compete. And that's the big emphasis. Compete.
[00:18:44] Speaker A: What do you feel like the best piece of technology that's come out in the last five to 10 years for player development?
[00:18:50] Speaker C: Oh, there's so. There's so many of them.
You know, I. This may not be the greatest answer, but the Hawkeye systems that we now have in every minor league stadium, I mean you get so much data just from one piece of technology. So that's, that's probably the one we lean on the most.
But there's other really good things. I mean, we might have been a little bit late to the party with trajectory, but you know, now that our major league season has started, you know, our players are raving about traject, especially the DHS and the pinch hitters and they can go in the tunnel and see who they're about to face and get some shapes in their mind and some visuals. I think that's probably the newest one for us that's had a major impact. But there, there are plenty of others. But you know, like overarching biggest impact is, is the Hawkeye system.
[00:19:43] Speaker A: I mean, how much is that for players and how they perform on the field is actually being able to see it before it happens.
[00:19:50] Speaker C: Guys are, well, it's important. I think guys are a little bit different. Some guys come to us with, you know, that, that I'll call it a skill, the visualization skill. Some guys have it, some guys develop it. But you know, so much of our training, especially when it comes to hitting is all visual. You know, it's all about shapes. And watching video, and if you can get in there and see a deliver and a release point and the shape of the pitch out of a hand, it's about as realistic as it gets, you know, so, so that, that's. I think players develop that, you know, in a lot of cases, very unintentionally. But some guys, you know, come to us with that skill as well. So it's, it's a big, big part of it.
[00:20:34] Speaker A: How is your main management style developed over time? You get 10 baseball people in a room, whether it's scouts or development people, they're going to have 10 different opinions on one player. How do you handle all that to, to kind of get it down? There's going to be disagreements on all of it. How have you handled that over time with your management style?
[00:20:52] Speaker C: Yeah, well, number one, we want disagreement because that means everybody's, you know, speaking their mind. You know, that that's really important. You get it. We've all seen it. You get into a room and somebody's got a really strong personality, and, you know, other people start agreeing with that person just because that the way he presents is strong. But from my management style, to try to emphasize, you know, this is a plat platform for everybody to speak. We want everybody to speak. And what I've had to learn is, you know, not to offer my opinion, you know, out of the gate. You know, I'm. I'm. My job is to listen to everybody else's opinion so I can make the right decision on whatever it is that we're. We're talking about. But really, the, the skill is just sitting back and listening a lot of times, never offering my opinion. But I, I walk out of a room, a meeting, whatever it is, you know, having a really, really good idea of where that room is and, you know, probably leads to the right decision, even if that wasn't my opinion going in there. But that. That's what we pay people to do. I mean, especially when you're talking about player valuation, you know, I'm, you know, not dumb enough to think that my opinion is the only opinion to matter and that I try to. I hope that our other leaders in the department do the same. You know, I, I had a great teacher in Dayton, and, you know, he did very much the same. Learn that from him, and I find it to be very effective.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: Besides connecting with people, do you have any other organizational leadership tips?
Would that be your biggest one? Being able to connect with People, Yeah.
[00:22:25] Speaker C: Be able to connect with people. And listening is the biggest and most important skill.
Nobody wants to go into a room when the leader of that room does all the talking. There's a time and place for that, but it's usually when it's introductory meeting, a closing meeting, something like that. But, you know, nobody really wants to sit there and, and be told what, what to do or, you know, feel like, all right, I have no impact. So, you know, we try to, you know, through our actions more so than our words, let everybody know that their opinion matters and it's going to be heard. And also with the respect and understanding that, you know, we may not go your way. I mean, it's just, I, like I just said, I, I don't go my way all the time. I mean, there's times we make decisions that I, I'm like, I really, really don't feel comfortable with this. But 8 out of 10 people in a room telling me that's what we need to do.
I need to listen. And I'll feel better if that decision works out or doesn't work out, I'll feel better about it. Because it was more of a fact finding mission than anything. And it just happened to be that I didn't find what I thought was going to be the case.
[00:23:35] Speaker A: Do you feel like it's more collaboration now than it's ever been?
[00:23:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Because again, the departments are so big.
Yeah. I go back to player development. The first meetings I was in, there was a field coordinator, was also a catching coordinator, a pitching coordinator, outfield base running and bunning, hitting coordinator. I think that was it. There was four of them and they are usually senior type of guys. Our field coordinator is a little bit younger, but all the other guys had years in the game. Now it's, you know, just piled on. I mean, our pitching department, I'd have to go and officially look, but we probably have 20 different pitching coaches, you know, in the minor leagues, from the senior director to our rookie ball pitching coach, you know, there's, there's probably at least 20.
So. Yeah, it's just really, really grown. I mean, it's, it's massive. And that's why the, the collaboration, the listening is so important.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: Is the field coordinator's job the most.
[00:24:39] Speaker C: Difficult job at times of the year? Without a doubt, spring training is a massive assignment. It takes a lot of coordination.
Spring training, you know, the hitters don't like hearing this, but it's all about getting the pitchers ready for the season. They just, they're the Benefit or the beneficiaries because they get the hit. But it's all about pitching. And the field coordinator's got to work everything around the pitching. And then, of course, you got your fundamentals, four basic team fundamentals, and there's some others that we've been, you know, designed over the years. But you got the four basics. You got to get them in, and you're on a time schedule. You know, you're really on the field from about nine to 11:30, then you're playing a game at one. But during that time of year, it's really, really probably the most difficult job that time of year. And then also instructionally, you know, once the season starts, you know, we're one of those organizations that we believe in our managers. We want them to make decisions. We try to empower them. There's. There's direction from the organization, but, you know, your jobs go out and run this team, and anything goes wrong with this team, we're going to talk to the manager about it. The same way, if things go really well with the team, we're going to praise the manager. But the managers are really important in what we do, and they have influence. They get some help along the way during the season with coordinators coming in. But day to day, they got to run that ship and they got to run it well.
[00:26:00] Speaker A: How are you evaluating people's weaknesses and strengths?
[00:26:04] Speaker C: You know, we've evolved a little bit. You know, I come from a place where there wasn't a lot of. Actually, there was none, no job reviews at the end of the year.
So we've developed different job reviews in various departments and, you know, again, just believing and let people hire people to do their jobs and do it well. So we don't have a uniform job review for every department. We let the directors develop their own job reviews. So that's. That's really something that's come a long way over the last, I'd say five, six years for us.
But a lot of it, a lot of the communication or feedback, you know, from my perspective, is just verbal. When I get a chance to sit down, talk to guys, how everything's going. Actually, on the way in this morning, we got, you know, three teams have their opening days tomorrow night. So I, you know, call two of them. One of them I'll get to tomorrow, but call two of them just to let them know, good luck and anything you need from the organization, let us go, let us know. One of them is a new manager. So, you know, asking him, you know, what's Been like the first couple days. Those type of conversations over, you know, many, many hours during the season, you know, should give guys feedback, necessary feedback. So when it comes to the end of the year and you do have a sit down, you know, there's nothing you really haven't talked about already.
[00:27:28] Speaker A: How should somebody balance that with what they're really good at? Then maybe working on some of their weaknesses to move forward.
[00:27:34] Speaker C: Forward.
That's a, that's a good one. And I go through this with, with players too. Like, guys are drafted, you know, for what they do well, so we don't want to lose that. That's what they do very naturally. That's. We want that to continue. We want to address some weaknesses, you know, and, and it's one of those things that you just, you don't want to change a player's identity. So with employees, it's very similar. You know, if a guy's a strong leader and you know, I'll call them because I kind of view myself this way too, as a generalist. If a manager is more of a generalist, he's not an expert in hitting or pitching or base running, whatever area, that's okay. You know, they, they'll, they'll just, they'll manage those people really well. But if they are a really good hitting, you know, person, even though their managers. Well, we want that person to offer his opinion about hitting because he, he sees it, it, you know, so we, we want them to be themselves at the same time, you know, there, there's some things that guy. People have to get better with. A lot of times it is communication, you know, that's, you know, they think they're communicating a certain way, but they may not be. And you get that, not necessarily directly from the players, but you'll hear it over the course of the year. And, you know, that's something we need to talk to them about. And a lot of times they'll stay with that too. It's, it's not so much a, A, a broad problem for them. It's adapting to certain players, guys that may be a little bit more quiet. Hey, that's a player. You're gonna have to go have breakfast with them. They get him one on one. He's not going to talk in a group, just knowing personalities better. So the feedback may be something along those lines. But if it's a, if it's a, again, calling it a weakness, then we certainly want to draw attention to it. If it's something that impacts their, them doing their job well, if it's something that's minor, then it's not worth sort of pick your battles, you know, last thing you want to do is tell, tell people, hey, you got seven things to work on. You're really good at one thing. You know, that's not going to go over too well. And if that's the case, you probably didn't hire the right person anyway, so. So you got to look back more reflectively on the hiring process. All right, what did we miss here? Because this isn't what we thought we were getting.
[00:29:43] Speaker A: And with new hires, do you have a checklist you go through or is it, I think you're a good feel person. Is it, is it a little bit of gut feel or do you have a checklist you go through? Hire a new people.
[00:29:53] Speaker C: So we've, we've developed like a lot of teams, a hiring process. It's pretty elaborate and, you know, for the, for the, you know, top end positions, it's, it's very deep, you know, and it starts with, you know, really brainstorming or what do we want out of this position? And we'll start with that. And then the whole interview process is based around those four or five things that we're seeking in, in that person in that position.
And then there's. We actually go through a grading process. Now, I will say the, the highest graded person may not be the one that we hire just because there is some gut feel and instinct that that's involved in, in the hiring. So you might take somebody that scored a little bit lower overall, but, you know, their people skills may be really good, that may lend themselves, you know, very well into that position or their technical skills, because this position needs more somebody that's more technical. They may not have great communication skills, but the technical skills were more important then we may go that way. So it's a blend. But we, we've definitely come a long way in our hiring process or over the years and, you know, actually, you know, feel like we've, we've done a pretty good job with hiring because we, we haven't let people go, you know, and that's a good sign that the hiring process has worked well.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: The Royals have always done a really good job with community involvement. You know, one of the first scout teams, I think was out there. One of the first youth academy was out there. Talk about that a little bit because I think that that's a, I don't think people give you guys enough credit for how much you're involved with the community there.
[00:31:29] Speaker C: No, I appreciate you saying that? I mean, it's, there's kind of two sides of that. With the, with the scout teams, it's a, it's a little bit self serving because we're trying to figure out who the, who the best players are in the country. But at the same time, we're opening up opportunities for players, you know, whether, you know, their route may not be professional baseball right away, they might need to go to college. So it started locally here because at the time Kansas City High School baseball wasn't real strong. Since then, I think it's gotten really good. There's been a lot of high picks and later a lot of kids going on to play in college. So I think it's gotten to a point where it's very competitive with the rest of the country. So it started with that, but it does serve with that setup. It served our local kids and families, and that was great. And then there's other things we do. You know, we have a Royals foundation here in Kansas City that's, you know, running the Urban Youth Academy, our community impact group. Urban Youth Academy is beautiful. It's a great place. It's created a lot of opportunities for inner city kids.
That's great to see. We see a lot of them going on to play college or have interest in baseball. You know, everybody thinks that the only way to be involved in baseball over a lifetime is, is to play that. We know you and I know that's not the case. You know, you want to play a little bit, it helps you. But, you know, we're, we're keeping people interested in the game and doing other things in the game, and that really comes from the top. Our previous owner, Mr. Glass, was very, very influential in decisions like that. And now our owner, John Sherman, is a huge philanthropist, philanthropist here in Kansas City and does a lot of great things for the city. But it's important to him that, you know, our community impact group is active and thriving and they're, they're doing a great job altogether.
[00:33:20] Speaker A: And you guys hosted the Youth Summit two years ago and you came and spoke to our group, by the way. You didn't need to do that, but I appreciate you coming to do that. But that's the other part of it too is you guys are heavily involved in the youth space also.
[00:33:32] Speaker C: Yeah, well, part of it initially it's the sport development Group. That's the department they were working out of, the Urban Youth Academy of branched them off a little bit to their own entity now under baseball operations. But they're, they're Doing great things around. You know, actually there's something going on next week in Omaha, Nebraska, that's three hours north of us that they're involved, involved with. But they've helped revive baseball in the area. You know, after Covid youth baseball in some parts of Missouri and Kansas really fell off like little leagues. When they were defunct, they. They didn't. They weren't playing anymore. And we were able to bring them back to life and come along them. Jeff Diskin runs that department. Jeff does a wonderful job with coaches, clinics and certifications. And, you know, we have a, you know, many, many, many teams that wear this rad patch on their, on their uniform, which is an indication that their coaches have gone through some sort of, I'll call it training with our department. But Jeff being a high school coach and understanding professional baseball, he's very involved in our Dominican Academy and the education of. Of our Latin players. He's just got a great handle on how works. And then you throw in guys like Sean Pluck and, and Brett Bailey and, you know, they, they do a wonderful job. And then Casey's doing a great job with our softball. You know, women's softball is really growing here in Kansas City. And, you know, that's great for, for the young women that want again and young girls that, that want to get involved in sports. And, you know, maybe softball is an avenue for them, but they, they spend a lot of time. They're very organized. We actually just purchased a facility here that we're, you know, in the middle of trying to, you know, bring that back to. It's kind of a historic spot here in Kansas city. It's Missouri 3 and 2. Old Missouri 3 and 2. We took that field over, that complex over, and we're going to do great things there. But, but their, their work, you know, should be noted more than it is. And hopefully, you know, our area knows all the great things that they're doing.
[00:35:35] Speaker A: And heavily involved with the ABCA. I think last I checked, I think 17 Royals organization members are members, members of the ABCA, which I think. Yeah, leads all pro orgs, by the way.
[00:35:45] Speaker C: Yeah, that's good to hear. I didn't know that. That's good to hear. But that's, you know, one of one thing that, you know, the, the quest of learning and the thirst for learning and getting better. I think that's an indication of, you know, how our guys think, you know, they, they, you know, a lot of, you know, you can just go run a league if you want to, but if you really want to excel. You're going to go listen to other people. And that convention is incredible. And the work you guys do throughout the year is very influential. And I'm glad to hear that we, we lead the pack there. That's good to hear.
[00:36:16] Speaker A: What does youth baseball need to hear right now? Could be parents, players, coaches. What do they need to hear right now?
[00:36:22] Speaker C: Yeah, man, there's. I could go a lot of different directions with this, but, you know, the thing that I wish we could put the genie back in the bottle is the kids are supposed to have fun. They're supposed to enjoy the game.
You know, when you're 8, 9, 10 years old, I mean, the kids already put enough on themselves and, you know, skill development, those ages, you know, for a majority of the kids is so low and it takes so many hours to become really good in baseball that they're going to fail more. And kids don't like to fail, just so you. And I don't like to fail. But it. But if we don't allow the kids to have fun and just try to enjoy the game for what it is, the purity of the game, they're probably not going to keep playing the game. And we may lose some really talented kids, you know, in the long run, because we put too much, much pressure on him. And, you know, that, you know, at the time, you know, I graduated high school in 89, so very, very different.
All we thought about was trying to play in college. You know, we didn't think a whole lot about the draft. And then a few of us, you know, eventually figured out what the draft was.
But now I think with players, there's such an awareness of everything that's going on, from professional baseball to college baseball, high school baseball, all the way down, you know, the Travel Ball at 10, you know, 10, 11, 12 years old, so there's more interference, which leads to less enjoyment in the game. And then ultimately, kids may not achieve what they could achieve if they just treated the game the way it's supposed to be treated. And parents would treat the game the way it's supposed to be treated. And at the same time, there's some empathy, because why wouldn't they do that as parents? They really just want what's best for their kids. You know, that's really what they want. But there's no blueprint for parents how to parent your kid so that, that I. I have empathy for the parents, but I hope in the long run, when the kids go home, they can't wait to get back to the field the next Day or two days later, because that means they're enjoying the game. And that's. That's something. I think it's been lost in the game.
[00:38:38] Speaker A: Yeah. I had a dad reach out to me. He emailed me, I gave my number. He called me, and we're talking about his son. I'm like, hey, how old is he? He's like, He's 13.
I'm like, what age? I. I go, is he in high school yet? He goes, no. I said, hey, we need to pump the brakes here a little bit. Let's. Yeah, let's at least get him. Get him to 15, 16, figure some things out at that point and then go from there. So I gave him just some kind of things, but I'm like, as soon as he said 13, I'm like, but that's kind of where we're at at as a society is absolutely jumping the route and looking too far down the road instead of letting kids enjoy where they're at at that point.
[00:39:14] Speaker C: I agree 100%. And that's. That. That's a problem that. That we have. I mean, it's. It's not just baseball, you know, just talking to people in other sports. It's happening in other sports as well. But let's face it, college baseball right now is. It's a business. I mean, it's. We. We. We know it. I mean, it's. It's. The landsc.
[00:39:38] Speaker A: Look at the draft. I mean, the draft will tell you. I mean, you look at the amount of Division 1, especially Division 1 players that are taken over everybody else like that, that's. That's filtered down to that part, too.
[00:39:52] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, no, no doubt. You know, this thing, it's. It's changed quite a bit. And, you know, without saying a whole lot, I mean, I wish we can offer more opportunity to players to experience professional baseball than we once were able to.
You know, that part of it, you know, has changed quite a bit. So, you know, whether they're division one players, two or three, you know, we're not able to offer as many contracts as we once were, but if we. If we can keep the game pure and play the game and understand the game and coach the game the way it was meant to be played and the love of the game, we would be a lot better off. And, you know, again, players are great evaluators. They may understand where they are in time, but let's. Let's keep them in the game long enough because we've handled them right that. That they get to make that decision. On their own, and not because they're not enjoying what they do, but those.
[00:40:46] Speaker A: Less opportunities has actually helped the minor leagues. I think it's a better quality of life for. And look at the spring training complex that you guys have. Like, that's a game changer for you guys. The spring training complex. I've been down there. It's beautiful.
[00:40:57] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, there's. There's some advantages to what's going on. I mean, the minor league players getting paid better right now is certainly advantage. The housing situation's an advantage. You know, just, you know, it was happening anyway, but just the requirements, you know, things like requirements are better for the game. You know, I, I, you know, myself ate my fair share of peanut butter and jelly and bologna sandwiches and never thought twice about it. You know, now, you know, you're getting full meals twice a day. And that's the right way to train players because, again, if we want them to be major leaguers, nutrition is a big part of it. So now we're investing there. So there. There's definitely been some positives. You know, we're not. I don't know the exact numbers, but I don't think we're spending less money than we did before, you know, so we're spending about the same amount of money. So the quality once you're in our system is a lot better. Across the board.
[00:41:52] Speaker A: Are the AL and NL Central the most competitive divisions from top to bottom?
[00:41:59] Speaker C: They may be.
[00:42:00] Speaker A: I mean, I think historically, it just seems, and I don't know if the clubs, because they're all similar market, it just seems to me like those two divisions, when you look over the course of the year, like everybody's bunched together than the other divisions.
[00:42:15] Speaker C: Now, there's a definite feel, you know, within our division that you should be able to compete at the top of your division every year because there's payroll parity, you know, so, you know, really comes down to the nuts and bolts of what we love to do. Scouting and player development, you know, so the teams that do that, well, you know, the last decade, it's been. Cleveland, Maryland, they've done that well for a long, long time.
And they've come out on top more often than not. Minnesota has done a great job and they've had their share of success. So that's not to take away from Detroit or Chicago, you know, or ourselves. You know, it's. The parody is encouraging. You know, I. I get. I get the question a lot this off season about the Dodgers. The Dodgers. And, you know, I. I don't I don't worry about the Dodgers. I just want to get in the dance in October and you know, we're on a level playing field with the five, our division or four others and if we can come out on top, we'll be playing in October, you know, and that's all our focus is going to be. And you know, we all know that a seven game series against whatever team can go any direction. I mean, it's a bounce, it's a, you know, it's, it's an off day that allows you to reset your bullpen. I mean, anything can happen come October. But with the parity in the central divisions, it could be any team's division on any given year.
[00:43:34] Speaker A: Do you have a fail forward moment? Everybody's got to answer this one. Something you thought that was going to set you back could be professionally, personally, something you thought was going to set you back. But looking back now, it helped you move forward.
[00:43:46] Speaker C: Think about that for a second because.
[00:43:48] Speaker A: You kind of touched on it in the beginning about how life, life happens and, and it's kind of how you handle it.
[00:43:55] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, I've been fortunate overall. All you know, I'll go to 2023 because it's probably more recent.
During the off season, going 22 into 23, we spent so much time in the hiring process of our manager, our major league manager, our major league pitching coach, the entire staff is pretty much turned over. And then when we got into spring training, I started to realize right away that I didn't set the course of the organization properly. I was hired at the end of October. I'm sorry, end of September 22nd. I didn't spend enough time talking about the vision of the organization and how, you know, my view of what we should be doing together, you know, what, you know, set it in the right direction. So I started to realize it in spring training and then when the season started going really poorly in the major leagues, I definitely realized it. And then I went out to the minor leagues and I could feel that we were slipping a little bit in the sense that we were starting to go really heavy and not doing the things that we do well as coaches, as people.
We were becoming too robotic more. We were unsure of ourselves and you know, consequently we didn't have a good year in the minor leagues either. So it was really in August we decided because we were out of the race in the major leagues and the minor leagues would all be done, construction league would be over by the end of September. Our season ended on a Sunday not the next, not the next day, but the following Monday. We had a week of organizational meetings to try to set the vision of the organization.
So my big failure there was. We went through a year without direction in my first year where I was in charge, where usually that's the year you, you really push forward. So looking back on it, that was a big miss on my part. And, you know, not making any excuses, I just got distracted with other things and I missed the big picture. And, and then also what this job represents. And again, this job is being a generalist. It's. Yeah, the major league team is, you know, really important in what we're doing because it serves our fan base. You know, that's, that's. You get 2 million fans in our stadium, you're doing a good job. That's, that's really what drives the whole organization. But we were missing on, on other things. So that, that, that October was really important. Setting the course and through the rest of the off season really helped us being prepared for spring training. So in spring training we were talking about solutions, not problems. And it really helped us.
[00:46:40] Speaker A: And I think that's what successful people do. Like, you're going to have some ups and downs. And who's to say that that's not supposed to happen? You're not supposed to have a tough year that year. Nobody wants that. But you might be way better now five, ten years down the road because that happened. And I think successful people take that and doesn't bury them. Okay, yeah, I'm going to learn from, from that. Self evaluate. But you guys might be stronger five, 10 years down the road because that happened. You don't know that, but we might look up here 10 years from now, you guys got five, six championships. And you can go back to that one tough part in the beginning. That was the springboard forward for you guys going forward.
[00:47:15] Speaker C: Yeah, no, and I hope you're right because. And there's probably going to be other moments too. But you know, the other. Something I learned from John Schurholz in Atlanta thing that he would always say, whatever is important, make sure you repeat it enough. So, you know, things that were said in that meeting, you know, whether it was pitching, hitting, organizational vision, you know, we've repeated those things quite a bit. We make a point to repeat them over and over and over so we never lose what our focus and priority priorities will be for this organization.
[00:47:49] Speaker A: What are some final thoughts before I let you go? And again, thank you for doing this. I know you're busy and I know you Got another meeting, but thank you for doing this. What are some final thoughts?
[00:47:57] Speaker C: Yeah, no, I love talking about the game. I mean, you know, from any perspective, you know, I.
Thoughts about the game are really interesting, you know, like where the game is again, I just hope kids enjoy playing the game.
Yeah, you want to train and be excellent, but also do it in a way that's healthy, you know, mentally healthy. You know, that's one thing. I would also encourage kids not to be discouraged from failure because, you know, we, we just, in our meetings, you know, our psychologists is sitting there talking about players that have had adversity in their lives. And he wants those players in our system because they've now, now they're being talked about, you know, at a pretty good, you know, range in the draft. So they've been successful players, but they've had adversity and it makes us feel good about their future future. In dealing with adversity, which is what the minor leagues are going to be about and the major leagues are about, I mean, that's, there's constant failure. So as a young kid, whether you're 8, 10, 15, whatever it is, you know, the adversity is going to make you stronger in the long run. And if you can keep that in perspective and it stinks going through it, I mean, it's, we've all been there. It's not fun, you know, dealing with some sort of failure. But if you can keep it in perspective, it's going to help you in the long run, not just the in. In baseball. Because, you know, I say this a lot to our players. George Brett was the most successful Royal ever. He's in the National Baseball hall of Fame. You know, he wasn't playing at 45 years old, you know, and now he's in his early 70s, so he's had 30 plus years of his life, you know, to, to learn from and live off of things he learned in the game. So the adversities you're dealing with, you know, may feel like they're insurmountable and they're going to, you know, just impact your life in such a negative way. But if you can, if you're able to gain some perspective out of it, it's not only going to help you in the game, but it's going to help you after the game. Because the only guarantee we've all been told this, that one day we're going to be a former player. I mean, it's. Nobody plays baseball until they're 80 years old or any sport until they're 80 years old. Competitively, like, truly competitively. So deal with the adversities in life, and if you're able to, to keep them in perspective, it'll. It'll help you in the long run overcome things.
[00:50:13] Speaker A: We've talked about that a lot on here. It's not supposed to be easy. Like, that's the narrative in society right now is everybody thinks it's supposed to be easy. And the most beautiful moments you've ever had are because of the challenges.
[00:50:24] Speaker C: Yeah, no, no doubt, no doubt. You know, one thing I, you know, I'll mention this. I. One thing I enjoy doing, and I hate doing it, but I enjoy doing it. You know, after we lose a tough game, when I'm driving home, I listen to our callers. I listen to the people on the call. I want to hear what people are saying. Because to feel that, because if I feel that, it gives me clarity, you know, whether it's that night or the next day. Because as much as we watch the game and think we know the game, you know, a random fan may say something, it just really resonates. And it's like, you know what, that guy's right or that woman, they're right and what they're saying and we're losing focus on what's important.
But my point in that is it's not fun going through that, especially when you're, you're not playing well. Well, but if you can take it and listen to it and actually sort of treat it like it's part of your collaboration, you know, now the next day you may come up with an idea or two that, that's important to share and something we may have just missed, like, we just looked right past us and you know what? That call in show, which was filled with negativity because we lost our home opener, you know, that, that helps, you know, so it's, it's kind of a weird thing. And people think I'm crazy because I listen to do it, but I, I really. It does.
[00:51:39] Speaker A: It doesn't have a person you are, though. Like, that's the type of person you are, that you can take that and, and, and let it roll off your back and. Yes. Absorb it and learn from it and, and let it go. Because a lot of people can't do that because they can't let that go. They're going to ruminate on that one caller instead of saying, okay, let's listen to what they're saying and let's, let's learn from it. People ruminate and you see it on social media media. But the calling shows, they'll, they'll ruminate it. But that's a credit to you that you're going to listen to it, absorb it, learn from it and let it go.
[00:52:10] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. No, I, I think in a weird kind of way it's healthy. And you know, and you know, you just mentioned social media. That's the last thing I'll say is I think kids got to be careful on what they're reading in social media. You know, there's an old saying, if you're inflated by praise, you'll be defeated by criticism. So if you're constantly looking on social media for, for, for likes, you know, you're going to be really disappointed when there's not that many likes. And that, that is a very unhealthy way of living. And, you know, we deal with it with our players. You know, stay off of social media as much as you can. You know, you can use it in a very positive way on it with your platform as a major league player. You can use it in a very positive way, but also can bring you down, you know, so just be careful in what you, what you absorb there on social media and take it with a grain of salt. So, but yeah, that's, that's a couple thoughts.
[00:53:05] Speaker A: Thanks for your time, jj. Appreciate you.
[00:53:06] Speaker C: Yep, thanks, Ryan. Enjoyed it.
[00:53:08] Speaker A: I've been fortunate to know JJ since the early 2000s with my coaching days at James Madison University. He was the area scout with the Braves on the east coast at that time and he drafted one of our JMU pitchers, Dan meyer, in the first round. He always knew with JJ's ability to build a genuine connection with people that he was going, going to be very successful at the professional level. I also want to give a shout out to the entire Royals organization for their support of the ABCA and helping us with our youth and travel committees. They're a great organization in it for the right reasons. Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale, Matt west and the ABCA office for all the help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via
[email protected], twitter, Instagram or Tik Tok Coach Babca or direct message me via the MyBissay app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off for the American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks and leave it better for those behind you.
[00:54:15] Speaker C: Wait for an others and the world will always return as your life was never before Yearning and you know that place Wait for another.
