Jim Gantt - Head Baseball Coach, Catawba College

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the ABCA's podcast. I'm your host Ryan Brownlee. A unicorn in every sense of the word. Rolling's new limited Edition Icon Electric Yukorn Bbcor Bats performance is fully charged and will leave the competition mystified. Its seamless two piece carbon construction maximizes barrel size while maintaining optimal stiffness and increased trampoline. With a balanced swing weight and slight end load, the Unicorn is best for athletes seeking speed through the zone. Electrify your swing with the all new Rawlings Icon Electric Unicorn Bat. Happy hitting. This episode is sponsored by Netting Pros. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Netting Professionals specializes in the design, fabrication and installation of custom netting for backstops, batting cages, dugouts, BP screens and ball carts. They also design and install digital graphic, wall padding, windscreen turf, turf protectors, dugout benches, dugout cubbies and more. Netting Professionals is an official partner of the ABCA and continues to provide quality products and services to many high school, college and professional fields, facilities and stadiums throughout the country. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Contact them today at 62707 or infoettingpros.com, visit them online at www.nettingpros.com or check out NettingPros on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects. Make sure to let CEO Will Minor know that the ABCA sent you. Now onto the podcast Jim Gantt entered his 29th season as the head baseball coach at Catawba College this spring. Gantt became the head coach of the Catawba College baseball program in the summer of 1996. Was inducted in the Catawba Sports hall of fame in 2015. In 2012, Gant was named the ABCA Southeast Region Coach of the Year and the North Carolina Amateur Coach of the Year as he guided the team to the NCAA Division 2 National Finals where Catawba finished fourth in the nation. Gantt also earned ABCA Region Coach of the year honors in 2019 and 2024. The Catawbi Indians returned to the national semifinals in 2024 after earning the 2024 SAC regular season title and the number one seed in the Southeast Regional, hosting an NCAA Regional tournament for the first time in program history. Gantt squad end of the year ranked third in the country in both the ABCA and NCBWA polls. Gantt was named SAC Coach of the Year for a league record 12th time. Let's welcome Jim Gantt to the podcast. All right here with Jim Gantt 29th season as head coach Catawba, but at the 40 plus seasons, player, assistant, head coach, just got his thousand that's win this month, 2024. Played in the national semifinal, but off to a great start this year. 14 and 5 overall and 72 in conference. Coach, thanks for jumping on with me. [00:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for having me. [00:03:28] Speaker A: Congrats on a thousand by the way. [00:03:30] Speaker B: Thank you very much. Means you're old. [00:03:33] Speaker A: Nah, you're not old. You're not old. I mean, by how many wins is this as a player, assistant and head coach? How many wins total is that for you? [00:03:42] Speaker B: That I'm not sure. I don't know. When I first came to Catawba, we weren't very good in baseball, so we, we had a few losses, but we got it going. Coach DeHart, who was my coach, who actually kind of arranged for me to, to be the assistant coach after I graduated, had quite a few wins too. He was a legend. [00:04:02] Speaker A: How much turnover do you have with your assistants? [00:04:05] Speaker B: We've had some over the years, but we've been fortunate with guys that played in our program that want to coach and do some things. So we've been lucky as of late. Michael Lohman was probably the mainstay for about 15 years and he has an autistic child and he had to get out for family reasons. But we got two good ones now that played for us. [00:04:28] Speaker A: Do you feel like that's the best way to do it? To bring guys in that have been in the program as players? [00:04:35] Speaker B: I don't know. Excuse me. If that's the case, that's just kind of the way we've done it, so to speak. I do know you can trust those guys. They know the system and we've kind of recruited and maintained our players by that way. That trust and that loyalty, do you. [00:04:53] Speaker A: Bring that up to guys when they're playing? Hey, I think this might be something that you, you want to look into is getting into coaching. [00:05:00] Speaker B: We kind of do. Sometimes the players bring it up as well, but yeah, I think it's a two way street. Of course, the trust factor is a two way street. We have to earn that from our side as well. So, you know, it's just a good fit basically. [00:05:11] Speaker A: Are there ever guys where you're like, hey, I don't know if this would be the right thing for you? [00:05:16] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. [00:05:18] Speaker A: Does that hurt feelings at all? [00:05:20] Speaker B: I don't know. You try to strategically talk about that, I guess, but you know, sometimes there's other options for them so you maybe direct them that way. And I think that's going to be in the best interest for them. [00:05:32] Speaker A: Well, money is a factor too, right? [00:05:35] Speaker B: Always a factor. You know, it's really just throughout the whole process with assistance and myself, it's never about the money. It's about the money that you don't have. So that's key. [00:05:44] Speaker A: I mean, do you. Do you lay that out for them too, getting into it? Like, hey, in the beginning here you may not make hardly anything, so you're gonna have to try to make it work with maybe some other jobs to stay in it. [00:05:55] Speaker B: I think they do realize that, and we're in a little better situation now, but they're certainly not getting rich, but camps and that kind of thing. That's always a thing. But if you're a baseball guy, that's kind of what you want to do anyway. Especially if you're young. [00:06:08] Speaker A: They can give lessons too. I mean, even now, Uber Lyft is an option for guys. If you really wanted to try to stay in it, you could do that part time if you needed to too. [00:06:18] Speaker B: Yeah, you can. I don't know if I'd recommend anything that way Nowadays, as crazy as society is, you know, it's a lot safer on the baseball field. [00:06:26] Speaker A: Did you always feel like you would stay at Catawba? [00:06:32] Speaker B: I never really thought about going anywhere else. I just kind of came to. I don't call it a job. I came to my hobby each day and, you know, here it is 40 years later and this is where I'm still coming to my hobby. [00:06:46] Speaker A: How do you feel like you've evolved over time? [00:06:50] Speaker B: Well, most of them tell me I've gotten softer. I know that it was kind of hardcore for a while and, you know, it changes once you, particularly once you have children yourself. It changes some things, but the priorities don't change. But I do think I see things from a different perspective as I've gotten older. [00:07:08] Speaker A: Do you have core covenants or mission statement for the program? [00:07:12] Speaker B: We do, but it's also in line with our school's core values. So I think that's part of our recruiting process. And I think if we're going to eat, sleep and drink it and want people to fill it, then that's the way we've got to be as well. [00:07:28] Speaker A: Has your recruiting philosophy changed over time? [00:07:32] Speaker B: A little bit. It's changed a little bit. We now have turf, so that has changed a little bit. You know, so you kind of recruit with that. I know you three run homers, cover up a lot of weaknesses, but you can stand around a long time Waiting on a three run homer. But we've, we've kind of stayed true to recruiting people that can also play baseball. And that hasn't really changed because you. [00:07:57] Speaker A: Guys historically have had good offensive numbers. [00:08:00] Speaker B: Playing a small ballpark too. So that's always helped, you know, and if you. The old Newman park was about 360 to dead center and home plate was 6ft higher than the center field wall. So it was like a tee box. So we felt really, really dumb working on bunning, playing in that part. So, you know, we had some hitters over time. [00:08:21] Speaker A: And last, last time I was there, you were going through renovations. Has that, that been completed for you? [00:08:26] Speaker B: No, it hasn't been completed. It's ongoing. Excuse me. Had this call for a while, but we do have turf and new dugouts. Phase two is gonna, it's in the process now. We're trying to get some zoning issues. Had to get a couple road closes done that. That was solidified last week. Hoping by August phase tool store, which will put the grandstands back, restrooms and that kind of thing. [00:08:52] Speaker A: Yeah, because I told you when I were there, I thought the inside, you guys did a phenomenal job with the inside. I think everything looks right and exactly how it's supposed to look from the inside of the field. [00:09:03] Speaker B: Yeah, initially we talked about a locker room because our locker room is really old. We, we joke. It's the first building they built when they founded the college. So we got some work to do there. But we didn't want to build a baseball field around our locker room. So that's probably going to be the last phase of it. But we did some stuff for our players and the game, which is our field and our dugouts. Now we got to take care of the fans a little bit and the fan experience and then we'll get to the team room and that kind of thing. [00:09:28] Speaker A: Eventually, with league play, you play one on Friday and two on Saturday. Have you guys always done it that way? [00:09:34] Speaker B: For the most part. It used to be Saturday, Sunday, then we got it flipped to Friday, Saturday. Of course, every time we have a coaches meeting, I want the agenda to play Friday, Saturday, Sunday, not any games, but anyway, we can't get to that point. [00:09:51] Speaker A: Does that give you flexibility then to schedule on Sunday if you need to? [00:09:55] Speaker B: With weather, I think our rain out policy is really a good one. We have three days to get our games in. If we play on Friday, then we can't go to Monday. So you make some calculated risk decisions. But our coaches do a really good job of trying to accommodate travel fee or hotel fees and that kind of thing. I think our lead coaches do a good job with that. [00:10:17] Speaker A: Your on field responsibilities, have they changed over over the years or have you pretty much stayed with with your strengths over the 40 years? [00:10:25] Speaker B: I go to the dugout for a period of time and I don't think that was good for the players because I was in there all the time, kind of like a caged animal. And if I go to third base, at least they don't hear me for a half inning. So I think that's good for morale a lot of time. [00:10:41] Speaker A: When did you go to the dugout? At what point did you say, maybe I'll try it in the dugout for a little bit? [00:10:48] Speaker B: Did a good job with it. Jeremy Simpson, who is a coach with us now, really makes good decisions and in tune with things and I think they probably could do a better job than I can over there. But currently Jeremy coaches first and I really think that responsibility at first base is more important than the third base. Basically they're just getting a stop sign over at third, but they do a lot of stuff at first with our running game and that kind of thing. So I can go over there and be by myself and just give them the stop sign, hope I don't mess up things. [00:11:16] Speaker A: What are some tips for coaches that maybe haven't coached the bases before? [00:11:21] Speaker B: Well, I do think the first base coach is more important than any of the coaches out there. They give information constantly on what they're seeing with pitchers and that kind of thing, situations, outs, you know, and that kind of thing. And that evolves, as everyone knows, as the game goes on and the outs of the inning and the score. But at third, I think a lot of you got to get in line of sight from the runner coming first to third so you can help them with a decision. And then you also, if those guys will learn to run hard to third, it makes the third base coach's decision easier, or not easier, but harder. If they shut it down before they get to third, it's an easy decision. You just stop them. But if they'll run the whole way, it's difficult to know if you're going to send them or stop them. [00:12:03] Speaker A: Yeah, we wanted guys to coach themselves a little bit on that too. Our kind of our base on that was if you've gotten to the second and the outfielder had not gotten to the ball yet, probably should go depending on speed. But that was kind of our gauge when we talked baserunning first to third Is if you've gotten to the base and the outfielder has not gotten the ball yet, you probably got a chance to make it. [00:12:27] Speaker B: Yeah, that's correct. We play a lot of inter squad games or basically all of our inter squad games with the gal. First has to go first to third on any base hit to the outfield, period. And then if they would have been out by 20ft and they wouldn't have gone in a game, we just put them back. Don't count to out. But that helps our outfielders as well. Coming to get the ball, making throws. But they find out that they can make some decisions and go to third because there's no throwing lane, you know, going to third. [00:12:51] Speaker A: I always feel like guys don't get deep enough to coaching the bases. I always felt like I wanted to get behind the, the corner infielder and get behind him, but also give me a better opportunity to maybe see balls fall in in the outfield a little bit better by getting deeper. But I know everybody has their own style with that part. [00:13:10] Speaker B: Sure, yeah. Getting in position helps just like an umpire. Better positioning, the better it is. We had to play last night down the right field line and I couldn't. I thought I heard the ball hit the ground even because it was short, but I could not see the ball by the way the field was sloped and moving help. But our base runner did a good job of seeing it. [00:13:30] Speaker A: How's your decision making on when to score guys? [00:13:35] Speaker B: A lot of it depends on obviously the score of the game and the outs. Our base runner who's coming up, you know, all that sounds good but it's hard for me to process all of that. When the ball's put in play, you got to pre think it. But there's not too many two out hits. So we're going to be aggressive that way and we're always thinking of scoring regardless and then that way we can just give the stop sign. So we're going to try to score most of the time. And a lot of guys nowadays, that's one of the things that I've seen. They just don't play catch well, you know, and they air mail a lot of balls and they're offline, they're not on target. It's almost like their catch play is not important to them. So we're gonna find out. Sometimes we look dumb doing it, but we're gonna, they're gonna have to make a play. [00:14:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it's it. That's the art of it. And for anybody that thinks that baseball is Slow. They should jump in the mind of, of coaches that are coaching third base and, and all those pre checklist things that you're going through on whether to score guys or not. Outfielders, arm strength. There's just a lot of things that go into that that anybody that says baseball slow hasn't ever jumped in the mind of a baseball coach. [00:14:41] Speaker B: That's correct. And then you got to factor in who's on the mound too. And if you're not hitting that guy, you, you may not get any more. [00:14:46] Speaker A: Chances, you know, and with the offenses that you have, is that recruiting, you know, for you? Is it development? Is it a little bit of both? [00:14:56] Speaker B: I think it's a little bit of both. We do recruit certain qualities, so to speak. I mean, you like to have some guys that hit it over the fence, but, you know, I'm a big Yankees fan and I see that part of their problem. They don't have any piano movers. They're all piano players, you know, nobody setting the table for them. And so we try to have a mix of both, but we do like to play defense as well. [00:15:17] Speaker A: That was an interesting article that came out talking about how I think the Yankees are the slowest team in the big leagues. [00:15:25] Speaker B: Yeah, they put a lot of hitters on the field. [00:15:29] Speaker A: But you look at what happened to him last year defensively, and you talked about defense. I mean, it was their defense that got him last year. [00:15:35] Speaker B: Defense and base running, they killed them. But, you know, if you hit it over the fence, you got a chance because you run arms out there, 100 plus all the time, it's hard to score. So if a couple go to the fence, you can win. But man, I'd hate to watch some of that. Juan Soto is a terrible defender. [00:15:53] Speaker A: When you get him on campus. Is that when you start talking about team offensive mentality? [00:15:58] Speaker B: We talked a little bit about everything with the. Yes. And you know, we can't. We had a guy one time, we asked him to make out the lineup because he was talking about some things as players do, and he made a lineup and we look at it. So that's great. Who's going to play shortstop? Because we had nine dhs on the field, basically, you know, so we've got to recruit that mix and, and we're trying to recruit pieces of the puzzle, so to speak, and not just a hitter or a shortstop, so to speak, but if it fits that particular year, we don't, we don't need to recruit two more outfielders. If we need a third baseman. [00:16:29] Speaker A: Have you guys dabbled in the transfer portal much? [00:16:32] Speaker B: We have somewhat. Yeah. And most of it's about coming back home. The portal guys. And it's not really about trying to recruit summer league, so to speak and, and sit at the portal and bring them in because I, I do think that's bad for what we're trying to do. I think it's bad for business and it goes back to that trust and loyalty thing. We can't over recruit over top of people just for the basis of win. Yeah. [00:16:54] Speaker A: That's just. It's an interesting time for all of you and how to navigate all of it. I mean do you feel like it's been good the portal or you feel like it should go away? [00:17:04] Speaker B: I think it should go away. [00:17:06] Speaker A: I do too. Or. Or there needs to be better guardrails on it. You know that there need to be better guardrails. You know I get that one time where might not be the right fit for a kid but it can't be kids just being able to do it every year. It just doesn't. It does. It's not good for anybody. [00:17:27] Speaker B: No. It doesn't seem fair in a lot of cases. I mean you have big time quarterbacks playing nine and 10 years and you have a legitimate guy with a blown out Achilles that played one game too many and can't get a red shirt. It just doesn't make sense. [00:17:44] Speaker A: Do you think we'll get to where you got five years to play five seasons and that's it. Don't even deal with red shirts anymore where you just got. Even if you're a juco kid or a four year kid, once you start, you get to. You got five years to finish. [00:17:57] Speaker B: I don't know. I don't know. You never know what's going to happen. Ncaa just a lot of decisions don't seem to be common sense. So we just kind of wait and see what happens. [00:18:06] Speaker A: How different this time of year training for your guys. How different is it from the fall? [00:18:14] Speaker B: It's a lot of difference. It's amazing to me. We can, we can lift three days a week. We can have a field day that we call. We're flipping tires and all the caveman stuff that everybody does and, and we practice a lot and work on a lot of things and it's hot and it's real stringent and nobody needs to go to the training room. And then as soon as we start playing a game, everybody's got hurt. They got, you know. So you cater to all that stuff. Of course the weather's cold and then you don't hit. So every injury is magnified because your batting average is lower. It's a lot less, you know, in the fall, in the spring than what we do in the fall. But I don't know, baseball players are funny that way. [00:18:53] Speaker A: Has that evolved for you over time, how you run fall baseball? [00:18:59] Speaker B: Somewhat? It's a little more direct on some things. I think we're not as caught up in some of the stuff that just looks good. I still think it's substance and I know long distance running and some of that stuff is not conducive to training for baseball and energy systems for baseball. But sometimes you got to do some things just to work on their mind. Because when you think you're going to die, you know, and then you get through it, you know, all of a sudden you got a little more mental toughness to you. So I think there's some method to a lot of that madness. That hasn't changed. But there's some more. We do look at some analytic stuff, and that has changed over the years. [00:19:40] Speaker A: I still think general fitness matters. We've talked about that a lot on this podcast. With some of the injuries that are out there, I just think. I think we've TR them to be great athletes. I just don't know if their general fitness is great, which is going to lead them to have more injuries. [00:19:54] Speaker B: Yes, a lot of hamstring and groin injuries in baseball, and that's always been a thing. You know, we get to the spring and the ground's a little softer back when we had natural grass, and then you come in for a bunk coverage and you slip a little bit and irritate your groin, and that lingers because you're playing all the time. So you got it. You got to train that kind of stuff to trying to at least avoid it. And if you can't avoid it when it happens, you can recover a little quicker. [00:20:19] Speaker A: You mentioned recruiting to the turf. So when you say that, how. How does that change if you're recruiting to. To having turf? [00:20:28] Speaker B: Well, we do bend a little bit more. We run the bases a little bit more than we used to from a base stealing standpoint, some automatic steals and that kind of thing. But we certainly want to play defense because there's no bad hops out there. So the routine plays. We can't mess up on turf. You know, of course we go on the road and we mess them up because we're not used to the. To the hop. But yeah, we certainly want to play defense on the Turf. [00:20:55] Speaker A: Do you talk about that when you go to natural, when you're going from turf to natural? We had to do that at James Madison because we had turf. And so we had to do some things to help first step and be a little bit more aggressive with our first step once we had to go back to natural. [00:21:08] Speaker B: Yeah, well, the turf makes you lazy as an infielder, particularly an infielder. But if you come and get the ball, you get it to first base quicker. And then we go on the road and we come and get the ball, we get a better hop. So it kind of works out both ways there. But coach Simpson takes our guys out in the gravel parking lot, his tennis balls at them. Just kind of get used to those kind of hops and I think that helps. [00:21:32] Speaker A: Did you feel like coming into last year you had a chance to do what you guys did in the season? [00:21:37] Speaker B: No, I didn't. I really didn't see it coming. I thought we were going to be okay, but things fell into place. We had a couple guys early in the season that had some things that happened and I think that we were kind of woe as me for a minute and then we kind of got together and then they started playing for each other and you know, what a concept, play for each other in the team sport. It started working out better for us. [00:21:58] Speaker A: When did you start communicating that to them as far as, hey, we got it, we got to start playing for each other. [00:22:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it was a mutual thing. We had some, we have a leadership council with our team and I think some of our team leaders said, hey, we can sit around here and sulk where we can get this thing going. And it's amazing what happens when you just start playing hard. [00:22:17] Speaker A: Do you feel like that's probably the key to playing the right way, is playing hard? [00:22:23] Speaker B: I think that's part of it, certainly. I mean, you got to make good decisions as well, you know, but you got to get out of yourself. Baseball's, you know, baseball players are worried about their batting average and that kind of thing. They're worried about the pro draft and, you know, I don't, I don't know. I coached my, my daughter's 14 year softball team and the girls seem to play for the right reasons. And I wish as, as men we could play for more of the right reasons, which is for each other and, and you know, that's kind of what we're doing in life anyway. It's more of a service thing and you got to get out of yourself to, to have some service for others. [00:22:57] Speaker A: I think that's the easiest way and best way for guys to get out of slumps is start diving into their teammates and really focus on pouring good energy into their teammates. I think that's the quickest way out. I think the game rewards players that handle it that way, that are of that service mindset, that are really concerned about how their teammates are doing and pouring into their teammates. [00:23:19] Speaker B: Sometimes just a sacrifice bunt or a ball, the right side to move the runner. You know, it's very productive. Don't go on the stat sheet as anything glamorous, but it's playing the game of baseball. And teams that win the most are really good at playing baseball. I think that's what Joe Urso and Tampa does so well. They're talented, but they're really good at playing baseball. [00:23:40] Speaker A: Have you enjoyed coaching softball? [00:23:43] Speaker B: It's different. It's different. My wife and I may be divorced by August because we're coaching it together, but yeah, it's, it's. It's different. [00:23:55] Speaker A: Do you feel like your daughter can handle that because you do coach baseball? [00:24:00] Speaker B: I think so. They. She asked us to coach, my wife and I. Some of the other girls on the team did. So I'm not sure if they knew what they were getting into, but we'll see how that goes. But, yeah, I think they can handle it. I think they're more resilient than we give them credit for. [00:24:14] Speaker A: So you and your. Your wife, are you co. Head coaches then? [00:24:18] Speaker B: No, she's the head coach. We'll get that straight. All right. I just gotta. I gotta do what she says and we'll be fine. [00:24:24] Speaker A: I love it. That's a great dynamic there. Probably the way it should be. What do you feel like is the key to maximizing pitch? And then, too. [00:24:34] Speaker B: I think a lot of times you can use guys in situ. Excuse me, again, you can use guys in situations if they're not afraid, they can go out there. You can have a lefty, lefty matchup. You can get a guy in and get him out, and the other team don't even know he's that good. Not that good, but guys got to believe in it. But having those roles and those situations and faith in them, but they can't go out there and walk people. I know that for sure. That just. That's one of the things that drives me nuts. You come out of the bullpen and walk a guy, but you like to ride the horse all the time. If you got a stud on the mound, but then you don't have anything when that guy goes down or, or if his pitch count gets up or whatever. So you have to be willing to use guys, and sometimes that's scary. [00:25:18] Speaker A: Do you have guys that can handle coming in with. With traffic? Do you have many relievers that can handle that? [00:25:26] Speaker B: Sometimes we do. Sometimes you don't know until you give them a chance. We had a guy that came in last night at his previous outing. The other team doesn't know if he's any good because he didn't give them a chance to prove that they were better than he was. And last night he. He was really good, but it was just a change of mindset. It wasn't his stuff. [00:25:45] Speaker A: How often do you have to spend time with your pitchers on that? A lot of the guys you recruit maybe have never even come out of the bullpen before. Unless maybe they're juco guy. [00:25:54] Speaker B: Right. I think Coach Brown. Greg Brown's our pitching coach. I think he does a good job talking to those guys constantly and then trying to implement it in intersquad games too. You know, you can vary up all the ways you approach it. It's funny when guys can't go through their routines, how they can't get ready to pitch. You know, they pull on the tube for 12 hours a day just to get ready to pitch. And then all of a sudden you're in the bullpen. You got to get it ready in a hurry and you got to practice that way. [00:26:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that's that tempo piece that, that they're not used to yet. And, and how long it takes a guy to get ready. And sometimes guys think they're ready to go in and they're not. And, you know, that's all part of that learning process for the college age guys. [00:26:37] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:26:39] Speaker A: What do you feel like is the mentality that separates elite college players from. From. From non elite college players? [00:26:46] Speaker B: I think a lot of it's the experience factor. Guys that have played some summer ball or played a lot of ball. I'm not sure playing 100 games on a travel ball circuit sets them up for college baseball because it's just a different animal altogether. And I don't think it's as focused enough because it's a lot about the individual and the summer ball stuff. But I do think guys that have put in the work and the effort, you can see that they're confident in their work and their trust in their work and just going to the batting cage and hitting or going to play on the weekend with a pickup travel team. That's not going to set you up for college baseball. I think the work has to be diligent and focused on what they're trying. [00:27:30] Speaker A: To accomplish with your incoming guys. You send them a program for the summer? [00:27:36] Speaker B: Yeah, we have a training program from our sports performance people. And Coach Simpson sends out stuff. Coach Brown sends out stuff for him in preparation. I do think playing in the summer helps them. We had a kid that played in the Coastal Plains League that was a high school senior this past summer. So we thought he was going to be further along during the fall, but he didn't do enough of the training aspect to be physically fit coming in. And our other guys that came in in the summertime and did some of the physically fit stuff were way further along. Then all of a sudden we come back from Christmas break and all that pitching experience that he had against the older guys. The Coastal Plains guy was ready and the other guys weren't. It's funny. [00:28:17] Speaker A: Yeah, that was the communication with our incoming guys like, hey, this, the training when you get here is going to be different than what you've done before. So you need to get ready. And I know some schools have them on campus now. I know some of the bigger schools, that's why they bring them in in the summertime is, is so they can kind of get acclimated to the training part of it. [00:28:36] Speaker B: Yeah, we've been able to do that last couple years and we'll continue that helps the guys when they come in. They're not trying to survive from day one. They're getting better. But on the flip side of that, guys that are pitching in games against, especially if it's older guys in a league like the Coastal Plains League, they're going to. The pitch ability is going to show up a little bit more than just the training part. [00:28:59] Speaker A: When's the last year you coached Legion? [00:29:02] Speaker B: This past summer. I just now gave it up to coach 14 year softball. So I've been doing that since when I was a head coach. Since I'm not really sure how long ago. [00:29:15] Speaker A: But when? [00:29:15] Speaker B: In 80. The summer of 89, I guess. I started as assistant coach for 10 years and then I was a head coach until this past summer. [00:29:24] Speaker A: Did you miss it at all this past summer? [00:29:26] Speaker B: Well, no, I coached it this past summer. So this upcoming summer will be the first one. Yeah, I'm going to miss it for sure. It's been a staple in our recruiting, you know, seeing guys day in and day out. But it was an easy, easy way to give it up though with my Daughter. Because I don't want to miss that. [00:29:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I. I give guys credit that they go through that spring season because I have friends that coach summer baseball too. I give a lot guys a lot of credit. Can do the spring season, then coach the summer season too. I give guys a lot of credit that can do that. [00:29:56] Speaker B: It's been a lot of fun. I just. I know some of our administrators over the years were worried about burnout from coaching all summer too, because everything ran together spring, summer, and then back to fall. But I don't know how you get burned out with baseball. Just has never happened because at night when I go home and turn on a baseball game. Yeah. [00:30:13] Speaker A: Did you treat the summer stuff much different than the spring stuff with your leeching? [00:30:18] Speaker B: We tried to develop as much as possible in the summer and we would script things from starters to piggyback guys on the mound. We would script position players throughout the regular season. And then therefore, when we got to the playoffs, the players had decided who was going to play in pitch out of how they did it. And then everybody got to play and perform. So they got experience going back to their high school teams. And I think it was a win win for both sides. [00:30:48] Speaker A: How long did it take you to develop your recruiting eye with that? I mean, that's probably got to be a little bit easier for in the summertime because you're around those high school guys every day. [00:30:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I think a lot of it was based off of guys that gave up their summer beach trip, they gave up their. Their family vacations, and those are the guys that we targeted. You know, we do want them to play, but they got to be baseball field rats if they're going to play. [00:31:14] Speaker A: Here with the next portion of your. What you've got to get done is that fundraising for the stadium. Did you have to do a lot of the fundraising for that or the school taking care of a lot of that? [00:31:26] Speaker B: Our development office has done a really good job of it. It's ongoing. We have a great community for baseball, so the support's been really good. It is ongoing. We're not there yet, but it's ongoing. So our development office has done a really good job. Make D is our director of development and she's awesome. [00:31:46] Speaker A: But for you, do you feel like it's easier to recruit to fundraise because you've been there for so long? [00:31:52] Speaker B: I think there's a lot of advantages of being in the area for so long. We do have a lot of local players within 55 miles, a lot of Our players are from. It's a bit by design, but not completely, but we have a lot of support that way because people are playing at home and there's tons of people that come out to watch them play and also want to support them because they know. [00:32:13] Speaker A: Do you have many fundraising events during the year? [00:32:16] Speaker B: We have a First Pitch dinner. That's our staple. We have it in January this past year. Marty Brennaman, voice of the Cincinnati Reds, longtime voice, was the moderator. And we had some Catawba guys. We had some local professional players and retired player and Jerry May was one of them. Drake May's grandfather, he pissed at Kataba. He kind of stole the show. It was comical. But Marty Brennan was awesome. He's very, very kind to us. [00:32:44] Speaker A: You do silent auction and live auction with that too? [00:32:47] Speaker B: We don't. We have some things that we, we do auction off, but it's not a big staple in there. But we do have some things that we, we do auction and sale, more of a bid type thing. [00:33:00] Speaker A: I feel like you're one of the most humble guys we have in the, in the game. Were you raised that way? [00:33:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I've had my mom and dad raised me that way. I can remember it's kind of not so much humility, but it's about who you are. We're playing in a Babe Ruth tournament All Star and I struck out in the last inning for the second out of the inning. We were about to lose to a team that actually had some illegal players that went on the tournament. They kicked them out of the, the tournament. They were too old. But I kind of threw my bat after I struck out because I felt like I let the team down. I hit ninth or shortstop, guy named David Kraft, he had to jump the bat, you know, to keep from getting hit in the shins. And after the game was there, we lost. After the game was over, my dad met me at the dugout and said, you know, they didn't say that gym boy threw that bat. They said that Yank kid did. And that's a direct reflection on me and your mother. And if that ever happens again, that'll be the last game we bring you to. And that's stuck in my mind forever, you know, and plus, you know, there's, there's no self made man, I can tell you that. Everybody has help and over the years there's been so many good players and coaches here and matter of fact, I probably screwed, screwed up more than I've done. Well, just other people have been good around me. [00:34:17] Speaker A: Who were your Coaching mentors along the way to help you and maybe push you into getting into coaching. [00:34:24] Speaker B: Well, my father for one, and he was just a baseball lover. He played a lot of slow pitch softball growing up, but he always made sure we got to the ballpark. My mom was always instrumental in that as well. But Coach De Hart was one of my mentors. That was my college coach here. How I ended up with Catawba was a guy named Bill Hendricks. He was my first coach when I was five. He let me play a year early. He was also my dad's softball coach, but his brother in law was a football coach at Catawba and got me in here on a recruiting visit. Dick Williams was a guy I coached under for five years. I didn't think I learned anything from him baseball wise. Thought I was wasting my time from that standpoint on a development process. But there's not a thing a day that goes by that there's not something I learned from him that I remember. It's just about coaching and people. And I learned so much outside of the game of baseball from him and. But those are the main ones. But you know, just being able to go to the ballpark whenever I wanted to was crucial. My mom and dad always provided that for me. [00:35:26] Speaker A: What, as far as managing people, what did you. What stuck out about Coach Williams? [00:35:32] Speaker B: He didn't take himself that seriously. He took what he did seriously, but he didn't take himself seriously. He was very humble. He was retired from the state of North Carolina as a coach and a teacher. So he'd seen it all in the public school systems, you know, and everything was, it wasn't a joke to him, but he just didn't take it so seriously. A lot of things, and I still get upset about it, but he just took it with a grain of salt. And he was always. He was like everybody's grandpa. And I'm not trying to be that guy, I'm not trying to be him, you know, because I can't be. But he was just always nice and good to people. [00:36:09] Speaker A: Is that part of having joy for what you're doing? [00:36:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so, yeah. I mean it's never, it's never personal with any of these guys, you know, and you got to reemphasize that a lot. You know, don't worry about the tone because what they're doing as a baseball player doesn't define them, but it's about them trying to reach their potential. And I think that's one of the things that Coach Williams always strive for. [00:36:33] Speaker A: How has that developed for you over time, not taking it home with you or do you still take it home with you? [00:36:41] Speaker B: Well, my wife's probably more competitive than I am, so I can't take it home because then we're gonna butt heads. She watches our games too. She's probably more critical than I am. And sometimes I go home and ask her something about it and she'll, she'll say something on the. Wait a minute, you know, he wasn't doing it on purpose, you know, but yeah, take it home. But you, I don't know. I do a lot of laundry over the years after the games and sometimes you want to kick around the laundry room or mowing, you know, just so you don't take it home with you. But my daughter being at home, you know, having a 13 year old and you know, this is one of the things that Coach Williams said. He asked our volleyball coach after a tough loss one time she came into work and he asked her, so you still have that dog that you used to have? And she goes, yes, sir. And he goes, I know you had a tough loss, but did it wag his tail when you came home? And she goes, it did. And he said he don't care if you want or loss, you know, and that's the way it is with my daughter and the dog. So it's not that big of a deal. [00:37:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I think coaches have to have something. It might be mowing the grass, might be laundry. You got to have something that's going to help you decompress and think through things, but then hopefully be able to let it go so it doesn't carry over into the next day. [00:37:52] Speaker B: Yeah, sometimes you just go run or work out as well and you take it out in the weight room or your lungs. [00:37:59] Speaker A: With youth parents, players right now, what do they need to hear? And youth or youth coaches. [00:38:09] Speaker B: I think the biggest thing they need to hear is that the academic side of it's where the money still is in college sports. And you go to College for your 40 year degree. And I think some of that's been watered down. Some of that, the education that we've been giving them, you know, I think we can do a better job of that, the whole system. And also if you like playing, then go where you can play and get out of the social media stuff. And I hear with my wife's business there, with the travel, softball teams that she has, I hear a lot about it's the social life of the parents and they're bringing their kid to the tournament to play. And that's just distorted to me. I don't understand how you can go on vacation every weekend. I mean you gotta, you gotta work, you know, maybe save up some money for tuition and all because they're not gonna roll out that big money. And the nil stuff is few and far between. The average nil is very low. And I just wish the parents would let their kids be kids. Let them play all the sports they want to play and then if they dial it in later on, be supportive of them. Make sure they got their academics and let them enjoy playing. [00:39:22] Speaker A: Is that your game hat that you have on Grateful? [00:39:25] Speaker B: No, it's. I really don't know where I got it from, but just kind of a hat I got for my father in law and another coach that we have just been a little bit more grateful with the things that we do have. [00:39:41] Speaker A: I love it because I mean that's a phenomenal piece of advertising for people to as a reminder to be grateful. What's a company that makes that do you know? [00:39:50] Speaker B: I'm not sure. I can't remember trying to give him. [00:39:52] Speaker A: A plug right now. Yeah, I love it because I actually, I would like to get one of those hats because I think it says the way it should be is be grateful every day. [00:40:02] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:40:03] Speaker A: Do you have a fail forward moment? You have something you thought was going to set you back, but. But looking back now, it helped you move forward. [00:40:11] Speaker B: Really. My first year coaching as a head coach, we were, we weren't very talented and it's kind of a long story, but I'll make it briefer. But I tried to quick fix things with talent and you name it, we had it. From drugs to vandalism, poor grades, you know, the phone rang and I thought, God, what did they do now? And that was the worst thing ever happened to me as a coach. But it was the best thing because I knew you had to do it with good people. And that was right out of the gate. I learned a valuable lesson that you need to recruit good people that can also play baseball. [00:40:44] Speaker A: Yeah, how do you fight that though? Because I ran through it all the time. You see a really talented kid out there and you know, they maybe have some baggage. How do you fight that as a coach to not go after that shiny piece where you see how good they are. But you know what it's going to end up doing to your program? [00:41:03] Speaker B: I think that's one of the things that I've learned over the years that, you know, you got 100 sheep and 99 of them's there, one's in the woods and you got to go save that one. Well, that's only for God to do. You know, I'm not that guy. So buy in is something we're not going to coach and either coming here for the right reasons. And if we do have a recruiting spill and that's probably it, we have to talk in to come and we'll have to talk in to stay in it. We had a pitcher of the year one year in the league and our team voted him off the team just before we went to regionals. And I'm convinced that's why we won the regionals, because they played together. But yeah, that's a tough thing because you see the talent and you want to have them, but you also want to go home at night and sleep because that one person can make it disruptive for other people's experience, experiences on your team. And you know, that's the catch 22. [00:41:58] Speaker A: That put a lot of trust. That's a lot of trust in your players there to say, hey, this decision is going to be made on who's going forward in the regionals. [00:42:08] Speaker B: That happened. That happened. We had a guy said, I would rather play behind somebody that gives a damn about us than play behind that guy. So we went now we made it to the World Series that year. It'd been good having the pitcher of the year at the World Series, but I don't know if we'd have made it if he'd have played in the regional. [00:42:24] Speaker A: Yeah. That is unreal, by the way. Tremendous. Do you do that often with your guys still to this day? As far as personnel, that was a. [00:42:37] Speaker B: That was a unique situation. But we do have a leadership council with our group and they make some decisions on things and, and we talk about. It's not that they're telling on people and that kind of thing because that, you know, snitch is worse than anything. But we have discussions about it and sometimes I allow them to handle it and they do a great job with it. But that's part of the leadership stuff, going into community because they're going to be dads and fathers, employees and people in the community soon, and they need to be able to develop those skills. [00:43:07] Speaker A: How's your leadership council made up? How do you pick who's on it? [00:43:13] Speaker B: They have to earn their way on it, really. And it's through some proven things. We have a transfer that's a fifth year guy this year, and he's on it now, but it took him to about this point to get there. Just trying to find out about him, his expertise, how he handles himself, the way he goes about it is what got him on that council. And we want to know what he thinks because I think that can make us all better. Because each year we get better as coaches by our players. [00:43:39] Speaker A: How often do you meet with them? [00:43:42] Speaker B: Just when we need to. We don't do it real often. And it's never, it's not only just when there's a crisis. We meet say at the end of the fall sometimes, sometimes prior to the fall or before the spring, just to see the directions We've had. We've had meetings with our leadership council before, after team practice, just to see what they liked about what we covered and what we needed to do maybe a little bit differently going back into the individual group work. That's been insightful. [00:44:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's. It's amazing thing when you give them ownership and you know they're going to come up with some ideas that you don't even think of sometimes. [00:44:22] Speaker B: Well, the funny thing about it is that you go to the mound, make a pitching change and the player comes in and executes and everybody thinks you're a great coach, it was a great move and that's it. You're only as good as how the players execute anyway, so they need to be in charge of it. [00:44:37] Speaker A: You're still in great shape. You work out every day. [00:44:40] Speaker B: Try to. I wouldn't say great shape, but you are trying to do some things. I like to keep up. I don't want to sometimes I don't know if I'm prolonging my life or shortening it with some of the stuff that I do. But I like to get out there and the guys can't say we're doing too much if I do it as well. Yeah. [00:44:56] Speaker A: So what are your go to's? You switch it up. You do a lot of the same things. You try to switch it up. [00:45:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I switch it up. I like to do some stuff that's challenging. I don't like to go in and do the bodybuilding stuff. I've never really liked that, that I like to do this stuff. Not really crossfit type stuff, but something like that. But I like to do some challenging things because. I don't know, I just like to get into it. Once you set the goal that you're going to do for that workout, in my mind, you can't quit if it's too strenuous. I've got to make it. I'm I'm a lot more sore now than it used to be. But anyway, yeah, I do. [00:45:37] Speaker A: I work out at a place close to the house, but there's a lot of older generation people in there. They laugh at me, they call me a spider monkey with the stuff that I do because I'm moving around, I have to, I get bored easy. So I have to, I have to move around a lot. What are some other resources coaching wise that, that you dive into or other people should dive into that you feel like have helped you? [00:45:56] Speaker B: Well, obviously the abca, that's always been a crucial thing. But you know, I would go to ABC for years and, and guys would get up on stage and they would thank Everybody from their 5 year old coach all the way up to currently, you know, and in 10 minutes they speak about their topic and like, man, I didn't hear much, but I can remember the late Mike Brumley who died in a car accident, you know, a couple years ago. We'd do our tandem relays and our cutoffs based off a conversation in the lobby that I had with him down there. And just those just sitting around, you know, people can talk about going there and drinking beer and all that kind of stuff and. But I've learned more baseball sitting around drinking beer than I have probably in a reading books or you know, that kind of thing. It's just a fun atmosphere. Plus you learn some things and then you meet people too. But I think that's great. But I try to look as many audio books I listen to podcasts when I used to mow all the time and so I'm out there mowing the grass. But I'm getting better as a coach, I think. [00:46:55] Speaker A: What's a go to audiobook that you like? [00:46:59] Speaker B: Well, David Goggins is always good for me and it's not really baseball, but I like that quite a bit. And we have a pitcher that's really into him but just the mentality stuff I listen to. I did just get the book of Joe. I know I'm way behind on the the ball with that one. But there was also a book called Range and I like that, that book and, and then there was a book called Tribe. I don't know the authors. I just get them and listen to them. [00:47:29] Speaker A: Range is really good. Yeah, I think we're heading too because that was kind of the counterpoint to the 10,000 hour deal, you know, where you have to spend so much time on one thing for 10,000 hours. That book kind of shows that, that you can do different Things. And you're still going to develop, too. [00:47:49] Speaker B: That's right. Yeah, absolutely. [00:47:53] Speaker A: What do you feel like with. With the Division 2 legislation? You feel like we're going to be able to get that pushed through with. With the practice hours and games? [00:48:02] Speaker B: I still hope so. It baffles me, you know, I can go out here and I can watch our band practice day and night and it doesn't hurt their English class. I just don't understand what the difference is, but I sure hope so. And we have some guys that are really into what they're doing, you know, with a baseball part and their grades are good, so I think that structure is crucial. But I know when I was in college, if we had free time, it wouldn't always go to the library with free time. It was college night or whatever. Yeah. I hope in the future that we can get to that. [00:48:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Just for flexibility purposes, you know, And I know geography matters, but there's nothing wrong with adding a few more hours and a few more games, even if it just gives people more flexibility with their scheduling, you know, whether it's in the fall or in the spring. Gives you more flexibility for your scheduling. [00:48:54] Speaker B: Sure. Especially in the fall, the weather being so much better. North Carolina weather is much better than in the Northeast and that kind of thing. I get it. But it's cold in North Carolina in the spring. It's hard to practice. [00:49:05] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a damp cold. Yeah, it's a damp cold. That's. There's a difference. When it's cold here and the wind's. [00:49:14] Speaker B: Blowing with that as well. I can take the cold. The winds. What gets me. Yeah. [00:49:19] Speaker A: What are some final thoughts before I let you go? [00:49:23] Speaker B: I hope D2 can get some things straightened out a little bit. Not straightened out. It's probably the wrong term. You know, we've been. Been lucky enough to go to Kerry a few times, and I'm not trying to keep us out of winning to get there, but I do think that sometimes the Final Eight is not the best 18. And I'll just use this example because Delta State's been good over the years. Tampa certainly has been, but those two teams have to play to go, and they probably both deserve to be there, you know, And I don't know how you do that, because I know it's a financial piece to that, but I would like to see that be adjusted somehow, you know, but hopefully, hopefully with. [00:50:03] Speaker A: The super regional format, it gets to that point for you all where. Where we can maybe line up who plays each other in the super regional where it's a little bit different to give. To give that. Obviously, I think, I think as coaches especially, you want to see that the best eight teams, no matter where they're from, get there at the end to see who can, who can win it. [00:50:24] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. Yeah. It's, you know, any sports never exact, you know, but you don't want the national championship game to happen in the super regional. [00:50:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:34] Speaker B: You know, that's what I kind of. What I'm speaking of. Yeah. [00:50:38] Speaker A: All right, sir. Good luck the rest of the season. I'm going to try to stop down there and see you here in the, the next month or so. I got you on the schedule, so I'm going to come down there and see you Coach Gain. [00:50:46] Speaker B: All right. Thank you very much. Good to see you again. [00:50:50] Speaker A: Grateful to Coach Gant for sitting down with me. He's one of the most humble coaches we have in the game. Best of luck to him and the Catawba program the rest of the way out. Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale and Matt west and the ABCA office for all their hub on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via [email protected], twitter, Instagram or TikTok CoachBRCA or direct message me via the MyABCA app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off for the American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks and leave it better for those behind you that way Yep. Wait for another day. [00:51:39] Speaker B: And the world. [00:51:41] Speaker A: Without and your love is never for yearning and you know that way Wait for another. [00:51:59] Speaker B: Day.