Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the ABCA's podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Brownlee.
Recruiting is time consuming, but what if you could filter through the noise and find the right players in minutes for free with ProLook athletes, create detailed profiles with verified stats, academics and highlight videos so you can search for exactly what you need and connect with top talent instantly. And it's free for College coaches.
Download ProLook today to start searching for your next recruit, among many other coaches features available for both Apple and Android devices. For more info, visit www.prolook.app.
this episode is sponsored by Netting Pros.
Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time.
Netting Professionals specializes in the design, fabrication and installation of custom netting for backstops, batting cages, dugouts, BP screens and ball carts.
They also design and install digital graphic wall padding, windscreen turf, turf protectors, dugout benches, dugout cubbies and more.
Netting Professionals is an official partner of the ABCA and continues to provide quality products and services to many high school, college and professional fields, facilities and stadiums throughout the country.
Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time.
Contact them today at 844-620-2707 or infoettingpros.com visit them online at www.nettingpros.com or check out Netting Pros on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects. Make sure to let CEO Will Minor know that the ABCA sent you now onto the podcast.
Joining us this week on the ABCA podcast is Cincinnati Reds mental performance coach Zack Sorenson.
Sorenson is a Wichita State hall of Fam. As a three time All American and drafted by the Cleveland guardians in the second round in 1998.
Sorensen spent 10 years playing professionally before moving into medical sales and then finding his passion in coaching peak performance.
Sorensen spent time working with the Texas Rangers and the Atlanta Braves before being hired by the Cincinnati Reds this season.
Sorensen is the host of the Hard90 podcast and is working with Pison on their cognitive training app. Let's welcome Zach Sorensen to the podcast.
Here's Zach Sorensen, Wichita alum, former MLB player but MLBP performance coach was with the Braves, the Rangers, but now with the Reds and then was on our webinar last night with Pison. So Zach, thanks for jumping on with me.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah, fired up to be here man. Always good to connect with you.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: Thanks. Yeah. Hey, what percentage this time of year is you trying to put fires out for players that maybe are struggling?
[00:03:11] Speaker B: Yeah, good question. You know, good question. We're right here at the break. And this is where guys, you know, in fact, I had a chance to be with our double A team last week, and our manager asked us, can you talk to the guys that are looking over their shoulder right now? The guys that are saying, hey, you know, I'm not doing what I need to be doing, and I'm pressing. So, you know, if I were to put a number to it, you know, it's a big number. It's amazing how many guys are worried, concerned, fearful for, you know, am I going to get called into the office and is my dream coming to an end? So the number's bigger than everybody thinks.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: How much of that is where the draft is now, too?
[00:03:50] Speaker B: Yeah, good point, good point. You know, I mean, 20 rounds, right? Is that correct? 20 rounds. So 20 new players coming in, plus free agent signs. So guess what that means.
Yeah. If 20 guys are coming in, there's 20 guys that are. That are going out. So, you know, of course, you always need players in the game of baseball because of injuries and this and that, but anytime someone gets a new job in professional baseball, you have to make room for a player. So that means that 20 players are on the way out. So this time of year is. Is a tough time of year. It's a. It's a time to evaluate, it's a time to assess, and it's a time to make decisions, and it's a tough time of year for anybody who has to make those decisions.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: Where do you start with trying to get them in a better headspace?
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Yeah, being a true self evaluator.
Like, I'm all about honesty. I want to know the truth.
I. I want to know every ounce of the truth. And the reason why I'm so big about that is because that's what got me from where I was to the big leagues. Like, I went to my manager and I'm like, you know, can you give me a scouting report on me? And he honestly was like, no, I can't. I'm like, why not? He's like, well, I don't know. Like, it's never been done before to my knowledge. And I'm like, listen, everybody's got a scouting report on me. The other team does. The other, you know, every other team does. You do that. You know, our GM does. Like, why can't I have a report on me that says, okay, here's what Zach really struggles with.
And he goes, honestly, he goes, I don't know the answer to that question, but here's probably why. He goes, because you probably can't handle it.
Now. Think about that for a second. You know, let's. Let's go back and think about all of our players that were, you know, as coaches, that's why our kids can't have a scouting report is because they can't handle it.
Wow. Right? So he ended up giving me a report a couple days later, and he met me at the door the next day, and I'm like, what? What are you doing at the door? And he's like, I just want to make sure you're okay. And I'm like, of course I'm okay. And then he's like, why are you okay? Like, I just gave you five pages of things that you're no good at or that these are your weaknesses. And I'm like, you just gave me the answers to the test.
You know, these are the things, like, work ethic is not a problem for anybody who's at the elite levels of playing any sport or any game or any business or any job. Like, work ethic. If you struggle with work ethic as a player, like, you're not going to make it. Like, let's just eliminate you right now.
But now I have what I need to work on. And a couple years later, I get, you know, I. I get the phone call and they sit me down and say, you're going to the major leagues. And I wouldn't recommend this to any player ever.
But I look to my GM and my manager, and I'm like, can I ask a question? They're like, yeah. Like, why me? Like, why? Why now? Why me? And the reasons that they gave me were the exact same as my weaknesses two years before when I got my report.
So, you know, advice I give to all coaches everywhere is every single player should know exactly where they stand, and it should be an honest report.
I'm a big believer in that. If a kid struggles with something, tell him.
And we got to have thick skin as players, because that's the goal. That's the answer to the test.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: And I've been on that side as a coach because, you know, with the. With the other opponent coaches that you trusted, you would actually trade your scouting report with them just to see what other teams had. But then I would share that with some of our players. And you have to do a good job of shifting their perspective on, like, hey, this is what it says about you. It doesn't mean you're a bad player.
[00:07:23] Speaker B: It's.
[00:07:24] Speaker A: It just means this is what you have to get better at.
[00:07:27] Speaker B: Absolutely. And if you do, and I Always follow it up. And if you do, like, look where you project, right? Look who you can become.
Like, this doesn't mean that you can't. This means that you can, right?
And so, you know, it's so tricky as coaches. We have to follow it up with the next sentence, but what we do and, you know, but just think about what you're doing. Like, why do we coach?
Right? We coach for that right there. We coach to. To. To. To help players become who they can become. So this is why this is such an instrumental, crucial part of coaching, this is what we live for as coaches, is to help these players become.
And so, you know, why would we not give them a list of things to help them become and then follow through with a plan and a process and then be in the trenches with them to help them become that?
[00:08:16] Speaker A: Is there a barrier of entry to play in the big leagues?
[00:08:20] Speaker B: Say that again.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: Is there a barrier of entry to playing the big leagues?
[00:08:23] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, I mean. I mean, it's. You know, the big leagues is.
It's unbelievable how good those players are.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: I just saw it Tuesday in Atlanta.
Ridiculous.
[00:08:39] Speaker B: I mean, I got to the big leagues, and it's interesting, you know, you come back home. It's so. It's so interesting. You come back home and everyone's like, wow, you really struggled when you got to the big leagues. Like, what's up?
And I'm like, you know, it's. I said, you know what? I found out when I got there. And they're like, what? And I'm like, those guys are really good.
And. But. But. But here's why I got into the mental game, okay? Like, when I got to the mental game, and. And I think a lot of players go through this.
I. I didn't feel like I deserved to be there. I wasn't sure if I belonged to be there.
And I didn't have any strategies to help me get through that.
And so what do we wait for? We wait for success to tell us that we, like. Like we're okay.
Well, what if you don't get success? Right? And I didn't have success, you know, when I. When I got there, so I just kept waiting and waiting and waiting for success.
And so if you don't get success as a player right away and you don't keep getting chances, well, then it just was like, Well, I guess it's pretty cool to say I played there, but. And. And to be honest with you, like, even myself. And this is a story that is so.
Is tough, like, in my My wife, she gives me a hard time about it. But you walk away from the game and you're like, man, was I disappointing to everybody. Like, I was the second round draft pick. I got parts of two years in the major league, and I hate to even tell people I played there because it. I don't want them to go look at my batting average, you know, for being there. Everyone's like, oh, man, you played in the major leagues. And I'm like, not really, you know, and this is the mental game that's still like, affected me to this day, right?
And so I get into the mental game because I don't want any player to go through what I went through.
I don't want them to not have strategies that when they get there, they can't lean on. I'll take a line out of Dr. Ken Riz's book, right, and write from his mouth. I want you to have something to go to when you need something to go to.
You know, I heard him say that to me personally. I've heard him say it all over the place. And I'm like, can I use that? And can I use it? Every single time I talk about the mental game.
I want you to have something to go to when you need something to go to. And I'll tell you what, when you get to the major leagues, you're going to need something to go to.
So let's train it now. Let's don't wait until you need the mental game, okay, for you to start searching for things in the mental game to start searching for somebody that might help you. Because a lot of the players we run into, and you know, this coach, they don't need the mental game when they're in high school.
A lot of them don't even need the mental game in college. I mean, you know, you know, we don't like to talk about our careers very often because it's just something we don't do. But, you know, college baseball was a riot. We had lots of success.
It was a lot of fun. You know, even back then when we were using bam bam bats and minus however many. Right. The ball used to fly. Let's just leave it at that.
It was a lot of fun. And so did we need the mental game back then? I don't know. Right.
But there's going to be a time.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: I was not as talented as you are.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: There's going to be a time when you're going to need the mental game. So that's my message to everybody out there, is let's train it now because you're going to need it.
I've yet to meet a player who doesn't need the mental game. And so let's attack it now.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: How do you reframe that perspective, especially with your big league hitters? Because the stuff is so good now. They know exactly where to play you on the field, they know exactly how to pitch you. How do you reframe kind of what success is at the big league level? Because if you're going to, I mean, what's the average now? 220, 230 at the big league level. Like, if you, if you're chasing that, good luck. So, so what do you reframe success at? What does that look like for a big league hitter? What is success as a big league hitter?
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Yeah, and this is where this gets tricky because, you know, mental performance coaches and, and I do, you know, this is what's. Here's why I got in the mental game also is because I had a chance to fail and I had a chance to struggle. And you know Mark Shapiro, who is my, my general manager, and now he's the president of the Toronto Blue Jays, Unbelievable person. I'm sitting down with him and he's like, what do you want to do in this game? He's like, listen to yourself talk and you figure out what your passion is.
And I'm like, the problem, Mark, is that I love everything about the game.
And I'm like, I could be a hitting coach. I could be a defensive coach. I mean, you name it, right? We all love this game so much. This game owns every ounce of us, right?
And so I went and worked the camp based on his advice. And it was. I'm like, yeah, it's probably going to be defense. I mean, we play the middle infield and we love talking defense. And then hitting, it's like, well, geez, hitting's everything, right? And I sat in on every single pitching meeting from the time I was playing college baseball at Wichita State because I, I cared so much about my pitchers playing the middle infield. So that was unique. And then somebody asked me a question about the mental game, and I was like, you know what? We need better coaching in the mental game. So that's what got me into it. So going back to your question about how do you reinframe success? The reason why I brought that up is I feel like I have a different perspective on success because I had a chance to play the game at the elite level. The textbook would say, you got to go back to your Process.
And your success is all based on you executing your process.
Okay? What I have done with my pitchers at the elite level, and not just the elite level, all the way down to high school pitchers that I have a chance to work with is all we care about is execution of our process.
Okay? So, you know, and I'll leave names out of this, but one of our, you know, four of our starting pitchers, or all of our starting pitchers in the major leagues after their start, we will sit down and look. We'll go back and look at video. We'll look at every single pitch that they think throw or they threw the day before, and together we'll sit and look at it. And I'll look at them and I'll say, did you execute that pitch the way you wanted to execute it? Yes or no?
And they'll say yes, and we'll put a yes down. Or, you know, we have a way of doing it. And so it all comes down to. That's all we care about. Because that's what we can control, Right? We can control certain things. Now I'll be like, well, wait a second, that guy hit a double off the wall. And he's like, yeah, but I executed the pitch the way I wanted to execute the pitch, okay?
And that's the reason why we have to have. That's why you asked this question, is because of Paul Skeens, right?
Paul Skeens can't get a win in an all star game where he had a six run lead. That's why you asked the question.
He's got to be laying in bed at night and he's like, well, what does success mean? Because, you know, I just had a six run lead and I, I didn't get the win. He's having a hard time getting wins, which most people think is success.
And he's out there pitching like a Cy Young.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: But that's the beautiful thing about baseball is you're relying on other people to.
Unless they want to let him start finishing games off, which you may get to that point with him is just see if he can go nine every time out. They won't let him do that anymore in the big leagues. But in the old days they would. It'd be like Nolan Ryan was going to win more games because Nolan Ryan was going to start the first inning and he was going to pitch until he won that game in the ninth. And so way different time of baseball now.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: Totally. So. So the mental game, to me, somebody asked me that, like, how do you define the mental game? It is having strategies for players so that they can compete one pitch at a time. Right? And I know we've heard that before, but so what I like to do, and I learned this from, you know, my mentors, you know, Brian Keynes, the, the Dorfmans, the Revis that we talked about earlier, is if we're going to play this game one pitch at a time, then what we need to do is find a way to hold ourselves accountable to that. So we don't just say we're going to play the game one pitch at a time. We have to. We have to hold ourselves accountable and take the next step. Okay? So if that's what we're going to do, we're going to track it.
Okay, so. All right, so to my starting pitchers, okay, well, what's your, what's your percentage of execution on your fastballs in attack counts?
Okay, well, if. And what we found out for a starting pitcher in a major league baseball game, if they're between 69 to 71, execution, they're going to win a major league baseball game.
So what's their focus on winning games? No, it's on executing one pitch at a time. All right? And so same thing goes for our hitters. And so we go back to our hitters. Good friend of mine, Sean Casey, which is a good friend of all of ours, right? I don't know. The guy who doesn't. Isn't the best friend of everybody.
You know, we go to Sean and I'm like, I asked him like, sean, if you were to have, if you were to do three things on every single pitch that would give you the best chance to have success, what would they be? And he gets all excited, you know, see the ball, be easy, hammer it, you know, or I go to another hitter. And I'm like, if you do three things on every single pitch that would give you the best chance to have success, what would they be?
See the ball, get a good pitch to hit, be on time. All right, so after the game, I go back to each hitter and I said, let's walk through your ability on that pitch right there. Did you see the ball? Did you get a good pitch? Were you on time? Yes or no? That means you executed your approach in that at bat. Now, it's not about, you know, because there's things you cannot control, but you can control your process.
And that's what we look for.
[00:18:04] Speaker A: Do you have any players that journal during the game?
[00:18:07] Speaker B: 100%. Most of the time during the game? A little bit.
100%. After the game, and that's some of the stuff I'm talking about. Those are our post game journals. And we do that. I call them the execution journals, which is what I'm speaking of. And then after we get done with the executions, I always have them answer three simple questions. What did you do? Well, what do you want to do better? And then how are you going to do it? Here's what's cool about that. A lot of us live in this fear of failure.
Right. You kind of spoke about it earlier. Okay, what if I don't? What if I can't? And questions along those lines.
So let's say I go out there tonight and I'm a hitter. And a lot of times we're speaking about outcomes, unfortunately. Right, outcomes, but. And sometimes we get them away from that. But let's say I go out there and I got three knocks, three hits. And, and so what did you do? Well, well, I saw the ball. Well. And I always try to pull more out of my, my players. Okay, well what allowed you to see the ball? Well, okay, well I took a deep breath before every single pitch and when I take a deep breath that allows me to relax, focus and gets me to the present moment. Perfect. That's much different than I saw the ball. Well, okay, so that's what you did. Well, what do you want to do better? Well, in my last at bat I got a hit off the left handed pitcher and then he picked me off first base. And so I need to do a better job reading left handed pitchers. Great.
How are you going to do that?
All right, and then in the journal I have for them, it says what is your 1424 coach? Coach B, do you have any Idea what a 1424 is?
[00:19:38] Speaker A: You talked about it and then I met.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's, it's 1% of your day in time. Okay. So we always talk about getting 1% better. So 1% of your day in time is 14 minutes and 24 seconds. So in the journal I have for them, it says what is or how? How are you going to do it? What is your 1424? So think about that. What do you want to do better? I want to read left handed pictures better. How are you going to do it? Well, tomorrow I'm going to grab a teammate of mine that's left handed and I'm going to have him show me my move.
Show me his move for 14 minutes and 24 seconds.
So in the game today, I got picked off by a left handed pitcher and most of the time we get mad Frustrated, upset, disappointed, pissed off.
And then we hope it never happens again.
Well, if you journal correctly and you do a well better, how you write it down, you put a plan in place for tomorrow. Tomorrow you wake up, open your journal and like, okay, I'm going to grab my left handed teammate and I'm going to go work on that. And because I attack my weakness or failure from last night, I'm actually getting better.
And because of the failure, I'm now a better player. And we absolutely lose our fear of failure because we attack it the next day and we become better. And so, you know, Kobe Bryant says that he got interviewed and they're like, what does losing feel like to you? And he's like, it's exciting.
Well, why is, why is it exciting?
Because that's where the answers are. Like, that's how you get better. And then Lewis Howes asks him, okay, well, you get answers from losing more than you do from winning. And he's like, no, no, no, the answers when you win also, you just have to look at them.
It's exciting when you win, it's exciting when you lose because the answer is there when you win or you lose, you just have to look at them. You just look and you figure out what you did well, what you want to do better and then how you're going to do it. So that's the post game evaluation journaling you're talking about in the form of a well better how?
[00:21:26] Speaker A: Yeah, our players that really had a hard time releasing bad outcomes, we would have them journal in game bad to get them to release it, to evaluate it and be done with it. So they weren't stewing over it on the next pitch, the next standing next at bat just to let them release it. As far as just a, a good release to write it down. Okay, it's, it's over with. What's it Chuck Norris says to write down your fears and then burn them.
[00:21:52] Speaker B: Burn them. Love it. 100%. Burn them up. I love it.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: Have any of your philosophies changed on the mental game over the years?
[00:22:00] Speaker B: You know, it's interesting. I had this vision of what I needed as a player, you know, and, and so I went and got my master's in, in sports psychology.
You know, I, I hate to kind of say this publicly. A lot of the stuff that I teach I didn't necessarily get from the textbook and a lot of it's just this, of what I needed based on experiences, based on learnings from, you know, Reviza Dorfman, Kane and And the reason why I say that is because I think a lot of the.
What I needed and what I think players needed is practical application of sports psychology techniques. You know, we don't really need to talk about, per se, like, how we're feeling as a player. Like, I want something to do about it.
I want you to give me something to go out and try. And so when I sat down, when Covid hit, you know, I took one day to kind of get worried and feel, you know, like, what. What is going to happen and this and that. And the very next day I went out and started shooting videos.
And I'm like, this is my vision of what I needed as a player and what I think is going to help a player.
And then later that year, I was able to roll it out with my very first major league player, and it really seemed to help him. And what's interesting is over the course of the past five years is the structure has been exactly the same. Now, of course, I'm going to add a few things to it here and there.
The only thing that I've kind of gone back and forth on is how much do you teach about winning?
You know, how hard do you go when it comes to talk about winning?
Now my perspective and view really hasn't changed, but how much do we talk about it sometimes has changed because, you know, my, my perspective is this is we don't necessarily go out there and, and, and coach winning. We go out and coach, here's what it takes to win, and we're going to be better than anybody about this.
But I feel like we need to talk about it all the time, because when you go out and coach winning players, at the end of the day, we're going to go out and win.
And so I feel like it's okay to talk about it.
And, and that's where I've come to, you know, initially as a mental performance coach. We kind of stay away from that.
And I did that when I first started, and I've kind of leaned into it a little bit more and says, no, it's okay to talk about that. Like, we're, we're here to compete, and we're here to go out and, and compete to win.
And so I'm back on that. When I was playing college baseball, we expected to win every single day that we showed up.
[00:24:40] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I'm sure those three talked about winning all the time. I'm sure Gene, JT and Brent talked about winning all the time, 100%.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: And that was our expectation. And so, you know, I'm leaning more into that right now. You know, whether I'm working with my major League baseball players, my PGA Golf or whatever it may be. It's like, when we don't go out there and expect to win, like, it's okay to make excuses, like, for mediocrity.
[00:25:07] Speaker A: And playing to win. I mean, that's a big thing, is playing to win.
But playing to win. And a lot of kids now don't ever get that opportunity because the way their schedules are set up at a young age, it's not playing to win, it's just playing, play.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: Playing to play. Yeah, and I think you said it perfect right there and that. I think you articulated exactly what I mean. Yeah, it's playing to win. And so it's playing to win. It's not just playing to play.
So that's. That's one thing that's changed.
[00:25:38] Speaker A: What would you go back and add if you're playing again?
Out of everything that you know now? What would you. What would be the one or two things that you would add immediately in to your game if you had a chance to go back and do it again?
[00:25:49] Speaker B: Yeah, one thing that I'm really focusing on right now, and I would go back and try to find, and I don't have the answers to it yet. So I'm going to put you on the spot and you're going to teach me right here. This is going to be fun for all of our listeners. Right here is, again, you know, the. And you know this because you've been in the mental game as long as me or longer than me, okay? And so this has hit me. This has kept me up for the past couple weeks, and this is what I needed as a player.
All right? And I think a lot of our players need this right now. When we go out and we get to the point to where we're. We're meeting resistance in the game, we're struggling. It's hard. And this game's a tough game. Like, I don't know.
I don't know if there is a tougher game. Like, we all agree with that, right?
We start to see things as threats.
Okay. Like, for my professional baseball players, you know, like we talked about earlier, the new draft, my batting average is. Is, you know, is struggling. I, I'm having a hard time getting people out. My velocity is not where everybody else's velocity is the big stage. You know, there's so many things. They're all threats, and threats are scary. And threats. I mean, I mean, let's be real. Like, we all know what I'm talking about. We see things as threats. And when you have a threat, you know, things start popping up. You know, if I were to describe what threats are, that threat focused mindset, you know, it kind of triggers our fight or flight response.
[00:27:16] Speaker A: It's called the lizard brain.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Perfect.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: It's the lizard brain.
[00:27:21] Speaker B: Lizard brain. And so the opposite of that would be the challenge focused mindset. Right.
So I guess where I'm going with this is when I got to that point in the major leagues, I didn't necessarily see my struggle as a challenge.
I saw it as a threat. If I don't start swinging the bat at the major league level, guess what's going to happen?
I'm going back down.
And so that was a threat to me. It wasn't a challenge to me. It wasn't like, you know, and so here I come from this guy who just absolutely loves competing, and all of a sudden you get to that one spot where you have some doubt and you, you go down the path of this is a threat instead of the path of this is a challenge. That's the first time I, I met that.
And so if we're going to take this to what you and I love so much about the mental game and from our mentors in the mental game and say, okay, I don't want to just talk about the threat versus challenge focused mindset.
Okay, we need strategies to do that.
How does a player do that, Coach? How does a player shift from a threat to a challenge focused mindset?
[00:28:32] Speaker A: I think the biggest thing for me is the expectation needs to be that it's going to be bumpy.
Like, you should fully embrace that. That's the beauty of the game is how challenging it is and how difficult it is.
And you also have to give your be willing to give yourself some grace on when you make mistakes. And that's a big part of forgiving yourself. I think that's where all humans, not just athletes, I think that's where all humans get stuck, is because they make a mistake and then they ruminate on that mistake instead of understanding like, this is part of the deal and this is what I signed up for as a professional baseball player or as a human.
And it's going to be rocky and bumpy, and that's okay, and that's part of what I signed up for, but I'm. That's just part of the deal. And then whatever tools you have to get rid of it and flush it and move on, but I think we. I think as a narrative of society as a whole is we've given them a false narrative of that things are supposed to be easy. And it's not. Like, if you're playing at the elite level or your elite performer at any level, it's going to be difficult. And you should embrace that fact that that's what you sign up for. And you should really be grateful for the opportunity to be able to do that, because not everybody gets to do that. Like, you should be grateful for the opportunity to be able to go out and put a uniform on every day. Yeah, it does. It stinks. You should.
And that shows that you care, too. And, like, that's the other reframing part of that. Like, if you're upset that you're not doing well, show yourself some grace for that. Because, again, this is probably what I'm most passionate about, especially now in society, of the narrative of that it's not supposed to be easy. It's just not like. And the ones that are great and handling it, they understand that it's not going to be easy, but they also are great about meeting those challenges, too.
[00:30:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that, man. You know, I saw something the other day, and I'm going to butcher this, but it's like a hard is not impossible. Hard is not. This hard is not that hard is just hard.
And you can do hard things, right? So, yeah, things are hard, and we've seen that before. And I think you're right on. Instead of letting our minds go to, you know, I'm just thinking about making that jump from the minor leagues, the major leagues, you know, and when you struggle, immediately you go to. I don't know if I'm good enough.
I don't know if my swing can play here. I don't know if my stuff is good enough to, you know, to belong here. Instead of our mind going to that, like, like you said, you got to give yourself grace because these guys are pretty good. We brought that up already. But I think the key there is to stay curious.
Okay, well, what. Just, you know. Okay, so I gave up three runs right there. Well, what was the situation right there? How was my execution? You know, stay curious with what happened right there. But always continue to have trust in what got you there. Always continue to have trust in your process and stick to it. Don't always go to, okay, well, I need to go revamp my swing, you know, like, your swing is what got you there, and stick to what. To what happens there. And it's interesting, you know, Maybe we go down this path right now. One thing that has changed going to your previous question is, you know, the number one question I get asked, especially from like, you know, high school and even into college players and mostly parents, is, can you help my son or daughter with their confidence?
And I don't teach confidence anymore.
I don't do it.
And it's an interesting shift and I'm super excited about going down this path. This probably happened, you know, about, about a year and a half ago because, you know, everybody that I, that I've worked with in the past, even my mentors, you know, love the way that we've always taught the idea of confidence. You know, confidence isn't something we, we get, it's something we do. And so we shift this idea that we're not going to wait for confidence to happen, right?
We're going to go out and do it. We're going to take action on it. And I agree with all that.
We teach that confidence comes from preparation. Right? I agree with all that.
But. But let me tell you where I've kind of shifted. And this is kind of a fun topic to talk about right here. So that's kind of why I brought it up.
I woke myself up in the middle of the night one night. That's where I do a lot of my thinking. You're learning that right now. But, you know, I get the chance to go and it's an amazing opportunity to go speak in front of, you know, 150 to 175 minor league players a lot.
And so this night I woke up in the middle of it and I was actually in my dream or whatever it may be. I was speaking to 150 minor league players and I'm giving them the, the topic and the talk on confidence. And I'm like, hey, you know, confidence comes from preparation, confidence, you know, this is it. Don't wait for confidence to happen. And I always talk to them about confidence. Where does it come from? And everybody says success. Well, what if you don't get success?
You know, you're getting ready to go pitch against the Yankees and you're not going to have confidence until you beat the Yankees. But you can't. Are you going to beat the Yankees without having confidence? You know, we have this dilemma.
And so, you know, and so this is where the talk goes. And so I'm talking to them about this and this is where I introduced the confidence comes from preparation.
And I'm sitting there and I'm like, okay, there's 150 athletes that are. That are shaking their heads. Well, how many of them are nodding their heads and agreeing with me?
And I'm like, there's probably 15 to 20 athletes in the, you know, sitting down right there that say, wait a second, I showed up to spring training absolutely completely prepared for this season, and I'm not confident.
And so I'm not saying that what we're teaching is wrong, but I'm like, is there a different way or a better way that I could teach this? Because I've shown up for an event before completely prepared, but not very confident.
Like, we go out to run, you know, we go out and do, you know, Brian King drags me out to do all these crazy runs and races all the time. And I feel like we're prepared, but the confidence level's not there, Right?
And so is there a different way? Maybe we could attack this a different way because, you know, how we teach things, like, sometimes and how we coach things, it might hit certain players one way, but it might not resonate with someone else. So maybe a different way. So that night, you know, it's 2:33 in the morning, I look up the definition of confidence.
And first of all, we always teach the confidence is an action, okay? It's not a feeling, which would make it a verb. And in the, in the dictionary, the. The definition of confidence, it says it's a noun, all right? And it says it's a. It's a feeling. And we teach that it's not a feeling, right? It's a feeling or belief that one can rely on someone or something, okay? But that doesn't blow me away.
Like, it needs to be more powerful than that to me. But at the back end of the definition, it says something that gave me the chills that night, and it still does. It says firm trust.
I love that, and I know you do as well. Okay? So the, the secondary definition of confidence is firm trust.
And so immediately I jump over and I look up the definition of trust, and guess what it says? It's a verb, an action word. And I got excited, right? And the definition of. Of trust, which is a verb, it says firm belief in the reliability, the truth, the ability or strength of someone or something.
And. And I'm like, yes, yes, that's what I wanted to see. Okay? So I don't teach that.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: We.
[00:36:11] Speaker B: We're going to build confidence.
We don't base what we do on confidence.
All of my athletes now base everything on trust, okay? We're not. We're not looking for confidence because honestly, confidence Even though we. We try to teach, it doesn't. At the end of the day, it's still based on what outcomes.
But trust is different. So I'll go to my athletes. I'm like, hey, where does your confidence come from? And I'm in spring training this year with all of our major league, you know, catchers that are in camp. Like, where's your confidence come from? And one guy's like, success, you know, And I'm like, well, yeah, it does. There's no doubt about it. And one guy's like, you know, deep in my heart, deep in my soul for my, you know, for my preparation, I loved his answer. And they all had different answers. And I'm like, can I take your confidence from you?
And they sit there and they're. They're like, no.
And I'm like, I'm glad.
Can over 30 take your confidence from you?
And they just put their heads down, you know, and half of them said yes. And I'm like, that's the problem with confidence. I says, Then I started teaching trust, and I said the same question. Can I take your trust from you? And everyone's like, no, you cannot.
And I'm like, can over 30 take your trust? And like, no.
No, you cannot. And so that's why I'm so excited about teaching this from now on. Is trust is what we're looking for, okay? It's an action word. It's something we can believe in and we can build it up. And so what I actually did, and we love to do this in mental performance, is I did a reframe on that trust, and I created a champion statement or a power statement, a morning mantra, whatever it is you want to call it. And I print these out, and all my players have these in their locker, and I expect them to read them to themselves every day. And it says, going back to the definition mission, I can rely on myself.
I trust myself.
I believe in my ability. I believe in my strength. Because of this, I can overcome.
And if they. If I can get my athletes to truly believe in that statement, that means they trust in who they are.
And going back to the first part, I'm, you know, I'm reverse engineering this.
If they believe that, then they're a confident player and a confident person.
[00:38:25] Speaker A: Well, how many times have guys had terrible bullpens and terrible batting practice? They go out and just rake in games and dominate, like, and. And again, if you're. If you're trying to get confidence off things, it's probably not going to go well. For you? Yeah, if you need certain things to happen and be confident.
But trust is a great word for it because that, that's more of what it actually is.
I, I go back to the four pillars of. I call them the four pillars when I go speak. Sleep, nutrition, exercise and quiet time, whatever you want to call it, I, I start there first if people are struggling, because I think that stuff breeds anxiety if you're not on top of those four things. So I always go to there first if they're on top of that, then we'll work some of the other things. But for me it's those four things first because that usually leads to some anxiety. But also you have to reframing anxiety as excitement.
You know, if I, if I talk to players that are really struggling in game, we always try to reframe anxiety as excitement that you're excited for today, excited for the next pitch, excited for this, rather than I'm anxious. And just that refrain mentally gets them going on the right path. Now you got to go out and do it. But your internal dialogue is important.
How you talk to yourself is important.
And yes, some of the, some of like I think Jordan was a good example of probably had terrible internal dialogue at times, but it worked for him. My internal dialogue, I still in the weight room, I cut like there's, there's some fire in there, but it's more like get your, get your button in gear and get going. So it's a motivational internal dialogue, but it's not always positive either.
[00:39:59] Speaker B: Right. Well, it's interesting you talk about that. And right now on my, you know, my pot, I have a personal podcast, I do. We're talking about self talk right now down and you know, you kind of talk about the differences. You know, you, you have negative self talk. You know, does it work? Most of the time it doesn't. Occasionally it does get you going, but, you know, most of the time we stay away from negative self talk. What most people think is mental performance. Coaches always teach positive self talk and, and a lot of times it does work, but there's definitely certain times where I'm like, you know what? Positive self talk isn't the answer.
[00:40:33] Speaker A: Fix it.
[00:40:35] Speaker B: Because do bad. Yeah, fix it. You know, I've worked with people and they're like, you know, the positive self talk, the rah rah right now, that's not going to get it done. And so I actually teach and, and I get, you know, this from Trevor Moad, who was unbelievable in his job. He talks about neutral self talk and and it's a special space that doesn't get taught very often. But neutral self talk is where you go to the truth and then you take action. So go to the truth. This is what's happening right now, okay? And he talks about Russell Wilson because you know, Russell Wilson, that was his guy. Russell, I just threw three interceptions on the last three possessions. That's the truth.
However, we're still in this game and I got to get over that and march my team down the field and, and get us back in this game and score a touchdown. So if Russell Wilson beats himself up and goes to negative self talk, that's not going to help. If Russell Wilson's like, hey, I'm still the greatest quarterback in the, you know, in the NFL, that's not going to help him either. He just threw three interceptions. Go to the truth. Okay, we're down by six with four minutes left in the game. Here's what I need to do. That's neutral self talk and that's probably what's going to be most effective. So allow yourself to go into that third space, which can be, you know, very effective at times.
[00:41:54] Speaker A: I think that's why athletes have gravitated towards stoicism too. With Ryan Holiday, the obstacle is the way, I think, because that, that's a stoicism thing, is staying neutral in any situation.
[00:42:04] Speaker B: Right.
[00:42:04] Speaker A: And you know, it's also called amor fati. Love your fate. Love your fate. Amor fati is a stoicism term and it's, it means love your fate. And, and that talks about being neutral in any situation. It's is staying neutral. And the Buddhist term is. I think the fable is perhaps, or maybe like, you know, was that a good situation? Something positive happened? Well, maybe, maybe negative happened to me. Well, maybe because you really don't know what the end outcome is going to be anyway. So maybe just be where your feet.
[00:42:38] Speaker B: Are and let's go from here.
[00:42:39] Speaker A: What do role. What role do parents have in all this?
I mean, and you're dealing with big leaguers too. I'm sure their parents are highly involved. Like it's a different generation now. I'm sure their parents are highly involved with their path now. Even at the big league level.
[00:42:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I think parents play a huge role.
And, and it's. This is tricky because, you know, it's a different group, it's a different generation.
And, and parents don't know what role they're supposed to play. You know, the way we got parented is completely different than how we need to parent.
And so this is an eye opening experience. I mean, you know, step it up, get your head in the game. What's wrong with you?
That's kind of how we grew up, right?
That doesn't work right now.
And so my advice to parents is this is, is the mental game is out there for you to learn also. These strategies are out there for you to learn, for you to understand.
And you know, a lot of parents will come to me and say, hey, can you work with my child? Can you work with my other. I'm like, absolutely. And they're like, just leave me out of this. I don't want to have anything to do with it because, you know, they don't really want to talk to me about any of this. My advice to them is this is, hey, I want you to go on your journey as well and learn the mental game also because this is a unique space and the strategies that your child's going to learn in the mental game, like, this is a safe spot, this is exciting and they're going to want to share this with you and I want you to learn it also.
This is empowering for me as a father. This is empowering for me as an old guy that I am right now. Right? Like the mental game strategies that are being taught by everybody out there, you know, you coach myself, you know, everybody that's, that's coaching these. They're helping us every single day.
And I, I think what I want parents to understand, I do this with parents for their kids, but this is for them also.
Like, you don't come work with a mental performance coach because you're weak.
You don't come work with a mental performance coach because you're broken.
Like, and I make a big deal about this. When I got hired by the Atlanta Braves, when I got hired by the Cincinnati Reds, I stepped away from the Atlanta Braves to be independent so that I could work with whomever I want. So that I could, I could work with college programs and, and high school kids because I want this message to get out to whomever needs it, okay?
But when I got hired by these teams, I'm like, I'm a 34 pant size and a large jersey size. I'm like, what are you talking about?
And I'm like, I'm a coach.
I'm a coach. And they're like, well, are you talking like a uniform? And I'm like, yes, I'm a coach.
Like. And they're like, well, we'll try to find you an office. I'm like, I don't need an office. I'm a coach.
And, and so when I'm talking to parents, I'm like, I want your kids to understand that I'm a coach. Like, if you go to your, your strength coach to get stronger, your speed coach to get faster, your hitting coach to work on your swing and your mental performance coach to give yourself an advantage in the mindset.
And I'm like, everybody says it's 90 mental. Like, why are we not training that?
Right? And, and, and so if you want an advantage in your game, you go work with a mental performance coach to get an advantage. Right? And so this isn't, it's not therapy. You know, we're going to talk about, like, what you're thinking and what your, where your mind's at. There's no doubt about it. But then we're going to give you strategies so you can attack it. It's just like, hey, I'm having a hard time swinging at the curveball in the dirt. Okay, well, let me give you some drills that you can do so that you can get better at that.
Hey, I'm having some negative thoughts when the lights come on. Okay, well, let me give you some drills you can do to get better at that. I'm a coach, and that's the approach that we take. And kids are like, oh, like, I had no idea that it was going to be like this. You know, I thought it was like therapy. And it's a completely different perspective. And that's my approach to parents, is this isn't just for your kids. Like, like, this is for you to be on board as well. And the terminology and the language that we're speaking is for everybody. So after the game, like the conversation in the car after the game, these can be healthy conversations and you can be part of them. And your son or daughter is going to want you to be part of these. And how much fun is this going to be all of a sudden, like, for you to be back in the life of your post game conversation with your son or daughter?
[00:47:16] Speaker A: I talked to an elite coach, super regional coach this week, and I was like, hey, you know, great season. He goes, you know what I'm really looking forward to next year? He goes, one of my pain in the butt parents graduated and I was like, dive in a little bit more on that. He goes, he goes, this parent, he said, I could never talk to my student athlete about the conversations that I had with that parent because it would negatively affect their relationship, the parent and child relationship. If I ever indulged so he goes, I just nodded my head when he would talk to me and then just move on. And never brought up any of those conversations with the athlete because he knew what it would have done to their relationship going forward. Which I give that coach a lot of credit. I would have had a hard time biting my tongue and not going to the athlete and be like, hey, get your parent under control. But I give that coach a lot of credit for just nodding ahead and just moving on with it, which is amazing to me.
[00:48:12] Speaker B: Ton of credit. You know, the job that, that a coach does is unbelievable, you know, and it's amazing to me, you know, as coaches, we care so deeply about our players. You know, they're family to us.
And, and it's amazing. And it's just, you know, I just look at it and that's why, like you asked about a post game journaling, think about these three questions. What did you do well? What do you want to do better? And how are you going to do it? And it's when you start doing this with your players and you watch them, it will blow your mind how hard it is for them to answer that first question.
We are not programmed to look at things that we did well.
They won't even find things that they did well because we just beat ourselves up. And a lot of that comes from what, how we're programmed in the home and, you know, to parents, even the coaches. Like, that's why that question's first.
And this isn't me coming down hard on you. Guess why it's the first. Because I had to be taught that lesson when I'm in professional baseball.
I didn't just make this up. This had to be taught to me because guess who used to beat themselves up as a player? It almost ran me out of the game.
I had to be taught this and it saved my career and it got me to the big leagues.
So this message needs to be out there for everybody. It does.
[00:49:35] Speaker A: Is there more of a hybrid approach now because you have your peak performance coaches, but also mental health professionals, because obviously that's a difference too. Like you said it, you're going to have your elite performance coaches, which is what you need. But there also may be some athletes out there that need a mental health professional with some other things that may be going on off the field?
[00:49:56] Speaker B: Yeah, there is 100%. So every organization in professional baseball, they definitely have clinicians that work with and I work very, very closely with them.
And so if they come to me with a situation or a scenario, I will Ask them. I come back to that word, trust, right? Hey, we've worked really closely together, and I know that we have a lot of trust with each other. You would agree, right? And they said, yeah. And I said, he, I believe this is an, this is a situation where we need to, to intervene and get you some help, and it's going to help you at home, it's going to help you on the field, and we got to get some of the bricks out of your backpack.
[00:50:36] Speaker A: So I'm going to recommend space for.
[00:50:39] Speaker B: Them, safer space for you, and it's for everything. Like, here's what you need. You need freedom. You need freedom in your brain. You need freedom in everything. So I'm going to make a recommendation to you to get you some help. And so I refer, you know, and, and we, you know, each team has, you know, an individual.
And so, yeah, I make that referral and then I say to them, hey, the second, you know, you get. So let's say it's, let's just say it's something, you know, I don't want to say. This is simple, but let's say it's, you know, off field anxiety, right? Hey, let's go, let's go work on that off field anxiety because that off field anxiety is leading to on field anxiety.
Let's address the root cause of this. And then the second that our clinician feels like, you know, you're, you know, we'll kick back to me, let's go for it. We're going to continue to work together as is right now, but let's address the main problem and we'll come back over.
[00:51:33] Speaker A: Ultimately, when did you know when it was time to. To be done? I'm sure you had more in the tank, but ultimately, when did you know, like, okay, that's. It's time to move on to the next thing.
[00:51:42] Speaker B: That's such a hard question.
[00:51:44] Speaker A: It's so hard.
Yeah, you know, I knew because I wasn't that good.
I, I knew indie ball was gonna be it. And that one summer Indy was good. I hit like 3:35 and I was like, this is good. I'm, I'm done. I want to get on to the next thing.
[00:52:02] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, it's such a hard question, and I don't know if I even have the right answer. You just, you just know deep down, you know, deep down in your heart that, that your calling is to do something else. You know, obviously there's family situations that come into play.
You know, my, my little man was getting ready to Start school. And I.
My family is everything to me, and I don't know if I could have. Could have handled being away from them.
And that was going to be the situation.
So that was a big part of it.
You know, it's just.
It's just there's so many things, you know. One thing I did, though, when I decided and I made that decision, is I sat down and wrote a letter to myself.
And I'm like, hey, one of these days you're going to look back and be like, why did you step away from the game? You know, why did you step away? And. And you're going to need to read this letter because here's what's going on, you know, and the thing is, is, is, you know, you're never really stepping away and like, the game's always in your blood and there's so many things you can do, you know, for me, I just wanted. I always knew I wanted to serve, serve people. I want to help people get better. I wanted to get. Help people get out of their own way. And it's so unique that I'm into this right now. I used to always ask myself, like, you know, why did I have a chance to play in the big leagues? You know, like, you know, why did I get up there? Why did I this. Why did I get traded? Why was I around so many amazing people? You know, why Joe Madden, you know, Mike Social, Eric Wedge was so instrumental in my career, you know, just this and that, you know, why do I have an opportunity to work with a PGA golfer, you know, Chris Kirk, who's been through an amazing story, if you guys don't know it, you know, and all of this just continues to help me serve other people, you know, and.
[00:53:55] Speaker A: So it's pretty clear still in the game, too, like, that's the difference for. For guys that. Or girls that once they get done playing and they're completely out doing.
I. Those of us that are fortunate to stay in it, even though we're not playing or coaching still, like, for you, you're still coaching, you're able to stay in the game, which I think is a completely different.
Yeah, it alleviates a lot of things for those of us that have been able to stay in the game of. Of some. In some capacity.
[00:54:22] Speaker B: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. And. And because it's difficult, right? Like stepping away from something that's been everything to us since we were seven.
I mean, it's. It's difficult. It's hard. And I talked to my buddy, you see, we're out, out completely. And it still weighs on them. It's still hard because we love to compete. And that's my, that's my challenge to them is find something you still can compete at, you know, because. And that can be anything. That's, that's the workforce. No matter what, just compete, compete. Go compete at the gym, Go compete. Go play pickleball, whatever.
[00:54:54] Speaker A: Compete in business, compete.
[00:54:57] Speaker B: Because we're born to compete. And go do that.
[00:55:00] Speaker A: What did get in your master's, what'd you get in your master's program that you didn't get as an undergrad?
[00:55:09] Speaker B: You know, the main thing it did is it put a couple letters behind my name that allowed me to get hired more than anything.
[00:55:18] Speaker A: That's a barrier of entry too, though.
[00:55:20] Speaker B: That's a barrier of entry.
[00:55:21] Speaker A: It's a barrier of entry that's also a barrier of entry. Like there's a reason you go to post, post secondary postgraduate degree there. Is there? Because there's a barrier. I'm sorry, there's a barrier of entry. 100 shows that you were willing to make the sacrifices to take that next step.
[00:55:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And guess what? It also proved to myself that you can. That I can do it and that I'm willing to put the work back in. Right. Like you get out of, you get out of college and you go play, you go play baseball. Like, you know, you get back in after a 10 year career in baseball and you know, you're writing papers while you're working another career. Like it's good for you.
It challenges you to get your, you know, get your brain going again in a different way.
I'll tell you what else was really good. It was really good for my kids to see me do.
Was great for my kids to see dad getting after it.
And, you know, there's a sense of accomplishment there. I think going back to your previous question, like we are continually needing accomplishment in our life and this is another mental game thing. But, you know, how do you build trust? It's a verb we talked about. It's an action word. So you win your morning, you create victory in your life every single day. You put, you put things on your, in your routine every single day that you can say, yeah, that's, that's a win and that's how you build your trust. And when you build your trust, you like who you are. And that's what our, I mean, that's what we need every single day for us to stay on top of.
[00:56:44] Speaker A: There are many differences between how the Braves Rangers do things on that side of it and how the Reds are doing things.
[00:56:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting. You know, a lot of teams, I feel like it's fair to say, aren't quite sure what they. They want in the mental game.
We're still in that space just a little bit, you know. So, you know, the Rangers were still. I got hired to help with them to kind of run the minor leagues and it was still more of the. The older school version of, of how they did things.
It was, you know, relationship based, which is true across the board, but it was more, we're going to let them come to us. We're not gonna, you know, it's not as much of the, the proactive.
It was different than what I wanted to coach and teach.
When I got hired to do the Braves, I was the only mental performance coach in the system. And so I got to roll it out, but I got to roll it out exactly how I wanted to.
And we had lots of success and it was a riot. I loved it. The organization was unbelievable. I loved everything about it.
Nothing but amazing things to say. And it was really, really tough to step away.
But I felt like I needed to, to, to work with some of the players that got traded and then also to be able to work with Pison, who I talked about last night. They weren't sure about me working with Pyson and I think Pison's really going to. Going to help a lot of players.
And then when I came over to.
[00:58:12] Speaker A: Work with two of my favorites in South Asano and Derek Johnson.
[00:58:15] Speaker B: Yeah, right, right. Yeah. South Asano is, I mean, you can't say enough good about South Asano. He's, you know, anybody that's around him is better and special.
And then I came over to the Reds and Derek Johnson was a big part of me coming over to the Reds and bringing me over last year. I was just with the major league team and they just opened their arms to me coming in and you know, Derek Johnson.
Yeah, I'm always very cautious coming over. I don't come in too hot.
You know, you got to get people to embrace you.
You know, they have to trust. There's the word again. They have to trust you as a player. I feel like, I feel like as a coach, all of our players need three things from us. They need to know that we care about them. They need to know that they can trust us and they need to know that we're going to make them better.
All three, like two out of the three is not good enough.
You know, it has to Be all three.
And. And Derek Johnson was so good about kind of bridging that gap for me, especially with his pitchers. And he's like, go get all of them. Go get all of them. You know, because he believes so much in the mental game. You know him, you know, a ton, and he's been amazing. So the Reds just opened the door for me to come in. We had some success with some of his, you know, a lot of his pictures right out of the gate. And then this year, they've asked me to. To work the whole system from top to bottom with some help. But. But, you know, all the minor league guys as well, and so very similar to the Red situation.
[00:59:41] Speaker A: Talk about the Pison app for people that don't know it, because I think it's great.
Yeah, I think it's really big. So shout out on the ABCA updates. I think it's gonna be. I think it's gonna be good. That's why I wanted to watch it last night, because I think it's gonna be great.
[00:59:54] Speaker B: Great.
Yeah. You know, Pison came to me at the winter meetings, you know, it's been a year and a half ago, I guess, and. And. And asked me to. Well, they just introduced me to it initially and then asked me to come on board to help them.
Pison's a company. It's a wearable.
It. First of all, it has all the. The similar things of a whoop or an aura. So it gives you all your recovery and your sleep. But the thing that differentiates it from that is it has three tests, cognitive tests, and it's. It's one. It's first of its kind. It has cognitive tests, tests. Number one is it allows you to take a. It's called a readiness test, which is basically a reaction time test, which is. Which is awesome. So you can see where your readiness is today compared to your baseline. So where is my reaction time right now in the moment compared to my normal baseline? So where are you at mentally in this moment compared to your baseline? The second test is a mental agility test, which is a go, no go, and just see where. Where your mind is. Is responding. So how quickly can you make the correct decision? And then the third test is a focus test.
And so we've done a ton of studies in this past year and a half, and there's some direct correlation between your reaction time and batting average, you know, on base percentage, and some really cool things. So I'm really excited about pison. Excited. The direction it's going. We got, you know, A ton of like, you know, first round draft picks that have been wearing this thing in college and now taking it into pro ball and a lot of really good testimonials from in, you know, a lot in baseball, but other sports as well. And, and I'm excited about Pison. So go listen to that recording we did last night.
I'm really excited about, you know, where we're at now. There's a lot of things we didn't even talk about last night. Some on field stuff, but just, just where we're headed with it. It's pretty.
[01:01:42] Speaker A: I'm glad you talked about Steve Cutter, by the way. I met him at the Junior College World Series about five years ago and interviewed him and we started, started talking about the mental side and he's like the perfect guy for that. Shout out to coach Cutter. If anybody doesn't know Coach Cutter, reach out to Coach Cutter at Lansing. I think he's about as good as it gets from being willing to experiment with his players.
Like, there is zero ego. I was so impressed with him. There is zero ego. He's just trying to do whatever it takes to help those guys get better. And that was not surprising to me, even though I didn't know that.
But when you brought his name up, it was not surprising to me that you're working with them or you had worked with them because that's the type of coach he is. He's one of the biggest shining example of what this generation of players needs as a coach.
[01:02:30] Speaker B: One of the biggest secrets in baseball and you know, like finding him at Lansing, like those players that go through Lansing have no idea what they've got. Like he's, you know, he's, once he gets discovered, it's crazy.
[01:02:44] Speaker A: Like, like he has kindred spirits with all of us. Shout out coach Cutter. You're the best.
[01:02:49] Speaker B: He's special. He's special. Coach Cutter. Love it.
[01:02:52] Speaker A: So do you have a fail forward moment? Everybody's got to answer this one. Something you thought was going to set you back, but it could be personal, professional. But now looking back, it helped you move forward?
[01:03:03] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a really good question.
You know, I think just really struggling in baseball.
I think, you know, I saw my career in, in professional baseball as a failure, honestly. You know, I, I got drafted. Well, I got drafted in the second round and got to the big leagues and struggled and it crushed me. If I'm being totally vulnerable and I'm, you know, I, I encourage my athletes to be vulnerable, so I promised I will be. Also, it took Me years to talk about my, you know, my career because it was like I. I disappointed myself. I felt like I let everybody down.
I felt like I let my organization down because I just didn't get it done.
And now I look back and I'm like, this is why.
Because I needed to go through that so I can help my players. I needed to go through the struggles so that I can be a better mental performance coach. My calling, it's funny, you know, you play this game since you're seven. I thought my calling was to play in the big leagues, was to be a, you know, a major league baseball player. My calling was to be a mental performance coach because that's where my passion is. You know, as much as I love the game of baseball, my passion is to help players and, and to help not just players, is to help human beings and to help everybody.
And so I needed to struggle so that I can help them and be compassionate about them and, and see their struggles and then hope, work through that in my mind and give them advice to keep them going, you know, And I get choked up thinking about that right now because I've never said that out loud before.
But I needed to really struggle in order to do this.
[01:04:51] Speaker A: And I was surprised I played against you and for. Anybody doesn't know Zach, like, Zach got, was 1996, a freshman as a Missouri Valley. But think about the shortstops that play in the Valley. Jamie Carroll played at Evansville. Jerry Hairston was the freshman of the year. And because I, I thought for sure, I'm like, Zach had to have been the freshman of the year in the Valley. And then you're like, oh, there's Jerry Hairston played at Southern. Like, you think about the amount of big leaguers that played in the Missouri Valley back then. It was a lot.
And not just at Wichita. Do you.
Nate Robertson, I think if he's healthy in 98, you guys probably won the national championship. Correct?
[01:05:27] Speaker B: We had a.
[01:05:28] Speaker A: We had, you know, 57 and 9.
[01:05:31] Speaker B: 56 and 7 our junior year. You know, this is crazy. And again, I told the innings, like.
[01:05:38] Speaker A: And that's the thing that you don't. You don't. I had to go back and like, look.
Yeah, but. And I'm looking. I'm like, nate. Or pitched six innings off that team. They still won 56 games.
[01:05:49] Speaker B: So I, I pulled this up the other day because I, I wanted to talk to my Double A team. My manager, the Double A manager asked me to pull up my numbers and show them to our team.
[01:06:00] Speaker A: Every year was Ridiculous. Your freshman year was ridiculous.
[01:06:03] Speaker B: And so, you know, I don't. Like. This is very uncomfortable and for me, too.
[01:06:07] Speaker A: But, like, you have to embrace it because it was so good. It was stupid. Like, your numbers were stupid.
[01:06:12] Speaker B: So here's what's crazy. And the reason why I tell you my numbers is to tell you what the other guys on the team did.
So. So my junior year, I hit.424 with. With 17 bombs, you know, and 96 RBI.
I think I scored, like, 103 runs or something like that. 22 stolen bases. Okay. But the reason why I tell you that is because this.
I was third on the team in every category.
Yeah.
So.
[01:06:43] Speaker A: Well, Casey Blake is a. I mean, that's the thing. Like, here's a crazy thing about professional baseball is the scouts in the area didn't think Casey Blake could play.
Yeah, it drove my dad nuts.
Yeah, it drove my dad bonkers because he's like, scouts don't know what they're talking about. Casey Blake will be the best player on any team he plays on.
And for guys that think that that guy can't play or he can't hit, like, they don't know what they're talking about.
[01:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it was. Yeah, we had a few. We had a few pretty good teams, you know, those couple years. So it was.
[01:07:14] Speaker A: Well, last year, negative five, too.
[01:07:17] Speaker B: Negative five.
[01:07:18] Speaker A: Got rid of it after that because USC beat Arizona State, like, 22 to 18 in the national championship game. And it needed a change.
[01:07:27] Speaker B: It needed.
[01:07:27] Speaker A: I mean, you had to play infield back then, playing infield, especially on the old turf fields that you guys had. Creighton had Indiana State with the Omni turf. Playing on those fields with negative 5, it was like you were. It was dangerous. I'm surprised more guys didn't get hit back then.
[01:07:44] Speaker B: Look out. Look out.
[01:07:45] Speaker A: I changed after that because then Christensen Molina happened the year after you left. Left, which.
[01:07:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[01:07:51] Speaker A: That honestly changed me as a human.
The ins and outs of that. But that. I almost thought about getting out of coaching after that because I was like, I don't know if I can handle if this is what it's going to be. I was like, I don't know if I can. Can handle this. Luckily, I stayed in, but it wasn't good for Ben or Anthony either. Either one of those guys, like that situation for any of that. And it comes. It's interesting because it comes up. You see it in the paper every once in a while with the situation and those of us that were actually in the ballpark It's a, it's a different story. You know, there's two sides to that story and I'm glad now it's far removed. I did see Anthony when I was coaching at Western. Anthony came in, his daughter was there and that I had not seen him in a long time.
And I'm sure Ben's doing fine, whatever he's doing. But you know, just the respect that I had for Wichita's program, it changed a lot after that.
Change a lot. But I have the utmost respect for Gene and Brant and jt. It just was an awful situation that we should have probably never played that game.
You know, that that was the thing like, like after it happened we probably should have just stopped because Evans people. There's some backstories to this. Evansville was in first place and Wichita was in second place at this point.
But luckily Preston Larson was a freshman, was one of the best pitchers in the Valley. And so we ended up winning.
But Anthony had hit two home runs off Ben the year before.
Like there were some backstories to that that like when you dive into it. But I'm sure Ben didn't mean like nobody means to hit anybody. It just was an unfortunate thing. And Anthony shouldn't have gone to the other side. Like they're, they're like you see both. I see the Evansville side of it, I see the Wichita side of it. Like Anthony should have never went around before the game to the other side by Wichita. Again, we all played it. You knew what you're going to have at Wichita. It was a very intimidating place to play.
Like if you won there. We won my freshman year on Sunday. This is a good story.
So I respect that program, especially at that point. But we were in an extra inning game on Sunday.
Our number one was starting on Sunday because my dad had a bright idea to try to beat Oklahoma who had just won the national championship. On Thursday we're playing. That's back when the Big 12 in the Valley were playing midweek games. So we're playing Oklahoma on Thursday and then we're going to play Wichita on Friday. We have a chance to beat Oklahoma. My dad sends our Friday guy down to warm up and he can't close the game. So we get beat. Well, Kyle can't throw on Friday. Mike Drumright beats us like 2 to 1 on Friday night. Our first year in the Valley, you go to Wichita, there's 7,000 people, it's 25 degrees, there's 7,000 people.
But we're in the 10th inning. We get a runner at second. I move them over. Adam Bennis was Andy and Alan's brother.
He closed, but also hit, but he's up. They bring Braden Looper in to close this thing out.
So I'm like, we got no shot. So Loopers first fastball is in the catcher's glove. Adam swings.
Second fastball, it's in the catcher's glove. Adam swings.
They throw an O2 change up and sped up Adam's bat, so it's base hit up the middle. We score before Adam gets to first. Gene is on the field already, so Adam's hitting first. Gene is already on the field. He took out Looper and the catcher for throwing an O2 change up.
[01:11:14] Speaker B: So we end up.
[01:11:15] Speaker A: We end up winning.
And it was like a miracle because everybody in the valley was like, told my dad, like, you'll never beat Wichita at Wichita.
[01:11:23] Speaker B: You'll never go in there.
[01:11:24] Speaker A: But we did. But the funny backstory of that is Adam Bennis and Braden Luper were teammates in the minor leagues, which. With the Cardinals.
[01:11:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:11:31] Speaker A: Brayden Looper would never admit to that story. He would never. He would tell Adam. He goes, I don't know what you're talking about.
[01:11:37] Speaker B: I don't remember that.
That's hilarious.
[01:11:41] Speaker A: I don't remember what you're talking about. But I. And I, for me, I don't think JT gets enough credit for what he did for you guys.
[01:11:48] Speaker B: Unbelievable.
[01:11:50] Speaker A: You guys, the infielders at Wichita were always great, and you and Hooper show up at the same time. I'm a. I'm a junior, and you guys are freshmen. I'm like, like, who are these two?
Because you get. Guys just look different. I mean, you look at the. Just the infield, outfield, the catchers you guys had, the pitchers. Like, it just was big leaguers.
[01:12:11] Speaker B: It was such a.
[01:12:11] Speaker A: All over the field.
I loved competing against you guys.
One, it was gratifying to beat you guys because you knew what we were rolling out there, and what you guys were rolling out there was completely different. But that's the beautiful thing about baseball, too, is.
[01:12:24] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[01:12:25] Speaker A: You still got a chance.
Yeah, but I had, like, jt. I just always felt like he was very underrated and didn't get the credit that he deserved for what he did for you guys.
[01:12:37] Speaker B: Absolutely loved him. I didn't sign there until end of July, so I was going juco. I. I didn't get recruited by anybody.
I walked off a. A tournament somewhere and Yavapai offered me a scholarship. So I was going Yavapai late I guess Kenneberg took the job at Utah after my senior year and walked in and. And is like, yeah, do you want a scholarship? You know, I just got here. Do you want a scholarship? And I'm like, I gotta grow up. I gotta get out of town.
So I'm like, I'm going to Yavapai.
And then Wichita called me like, end of July.
And I'm like, well, yeah, like, you're ranked number one in the country. I'd love to come out. But then I got out there and they had a senior shortstop, and then they had Jeff Ryan coming in, who was a high school all American. And I'm like, where am I gonna play?
And then Gene was like, listen.
He's like, I just play the best player. I don't care if you're an all American last year. I don't care.
He goes. And then he called all of us in. He's like, I just need to shortstop and catch the ball. He goes, they had enough firepower offensively. And I'm like, I don't know if I can hit, but I can catch the ball.
And I, yeah, lucked out. I started as a freshman. That was great. I mean, I can't think of a better spot. I mean, it just worked out great. Unbelievable.
[01:13:59] Speaker A: We miss that now. I was a late sign. I didn't decide to go to Evansville till June after my senior year. I had other options.
And I think we missed that in recruiting now.
And that's one of the things I try to tell parents and players now when they call about recruiting, the process, I'm like, I know it's different, but some guys, it's way better. Wait as long as you can to try to figure out where you might actually fit.
[01:14:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:14:23] Speaker A: Everybody's in such a hurry now to get it over with, and there's so many mistakes made on parents and players parts, but also coaches parts. Because everybody's in such a rush to get the decision done with. And besides, who you marry, it's probably the most important decision you're going to have is where you end up, where you end up. Because who you surround with yourself with matters. If you end up going to Yavapai, who knows where your path ends up? If you don't go to Wichita, it's a game.
[01:14:52] Speaker B: Total game changer. Yes. I mean, I got a whole different world right now. Totally.
[01:14:57] Speaker A: Yep.
[01:14:58] Speaker B: I agree 100%.
[01:15:00] Speaker A: What about your morning routines? You're in great shape. You've stayed in great shape. What about your morning routines?
[01:15:06] Speaker B: Yeah, my Momentum is crucial to me. It's really kept me just mentally locked in.
Get up. It's been up and at it, working out almost, you know, every day.
[01:15:17] Speaker A: What time do you get up?
[01:15:20] Speaker B: So for forever I worked at the hospital in orthopedic cells.
It was the gap in between baseball and before I got into full time mental performance.
And so I, I found CrossFit and so they had the 5:15 CrossFit class so I could get that in before I went into a surgery.
And so it was 4:45, hustle down to the 5:15 class, get back, showered and make it into the hospital.
So you know, podcast on the way in, listen to podcasts on the way into the gym, listen to podcasts on the way home from the gym and go from there.
[01:16:03] Speaker A: So yeah, still do as many reps as you were doing CrossFit wise.
[01:16:08] Speaker B: I, I maintained CrossFit until just about six months ago.
[01:16:14] Speaker A: I give you a lot of credit. It's a lot of reps, It's a.
[01:16:17] Speaker B: Lot of reps.
You know, I've lowered the weight a lot but maintain the reps.
I've kind of gotten over the whole, you know, I need to lift heavy.
[01:16:27] Speaker A: Stuff because they're in it though where I work out. I'm up at 4:30 but I'm usually there at strive at 5. But they have a separate crossfit so they're going, they're going at it when I'm doing my thing at 5:15 in the morning. They are, they're getting after it in the CrossFit room.
[01:16:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:16:45] Speaker A: Develop a different mentality too though. Like I, I give the people that buy into the CrossFit part of it because I think it does help you develop a different mentality.
[01:16:55] Speaker B: It is. And you know what that did for me, like we talked about earlier, the whole competitive mindset that kind of fulfilled that for me.
[01:17:02] Speaker A: I think Orange theory does that for people too. Yeah, I've done one Orange theory class. I wanted to see where my fitness level was at.
[01:17:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:17:10] Speaker A: Because I don't do a ton of cardio.
So it was a free class and I went in there and I did good and I was like, okay. What I'm doing on the side is working is, is working. I'm good with it.
[01:17:20] Speaker B: With what my wife did. Orange theory forever. I'd go with her. I liked it, it was good.
But so, you know, it's interesting, the CrossFit thing. I've had a couple injuries with it, not nothing too bad. The low back goes every once in a while. But it used to go when I played, so same stuff.
There's been a couple times where my wife's like, it's time for you to, like, get away from that. Like, you're not. And then it's interesting.
I'll get away. And then like six weeks away from it. And she's like, you need to go back to CrossFit for your mind. Yeah.
[01:17:53] Speaker A: Yep.
[01:17:54] Speaker B: She's like, for whatever reason, you mentally just have an edge to you when you go to CrossFit, which is. Right. It's pretty cool. So.
But I, you know, I go there, I sit over in the corner, you know, I.
I just go over and do my thing. The guys are in there. They're awesome guys. They're cool, you know, But I'm. I'm not the typical, you know, the shirts never come off, you know, but I just go in there and I like to just get my butt kicked.
I like to just absolutely get crushed in my workout and barely walk out of there and be sore all day.
[01:18:32] Speaker A: Tabata is mine. Her name is Hannah Eden. She's an Instagram. She's got a great backstory because she was addicted to drugs and got off of it. But Tabata, that kettlebell Tabata workout, I don't do it all the time, but when I want to kick myself in the butt, I'll do that Tabata workout. And that thing is.
Yeah, it's like, it's not a lot of time either. It's like 15 minutes and you're. You're done.
[01:18:56] Speaker B: That's why I got into CrossFit is because I'm like, I don't have time to go work out. So. And then my body's like, come to CrossFit. Like, I'll do an eight minute workout with you and you won't be able to walk for three days. And I'm like, I can do a 10 minute workout. I got. I got time for that.
[01:19:08] Speaker A: So did Brian Kane bring you to the convention for the first time for your convention? Is that why you showed up at the ABCA convention first time?
[01:19:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. So he.
He spoke.
The one he.
[01:19:21] Speaker A: The last one he spoke at Nashville.
[01:19:24] Speaker B: Nashville, yeah. So I went to him to Anaheim with Ken.
That's the first one I went to.
And then he spoke in Nashville.
[01:19:34] Speaker A: It was pretty funny last year with ABCA on this side. It was 2020. It was pre. It was the year that was pre Covid.
Yeah, it was right before COVID happened. It was. Was Nashville. He spoke joke.
[01:19:45] Speaker B: And that was a hilarious one because he the night before, he showed me his slides and I looked at it and I just sat there and he's like, what do you got? And I'm like, they don't want to hear this.
What do you mean? And I'm like, you're just basically saying thank you to all the teams that you've worked with. Like, no one's coming here to hear you say thank you to the teams you're working with. Like, these guys want content.
Like, you just got done with Corbin Burns. Like, Corbin Burns went from the worst pitcher in the history of baseball to winning the Cy Young. Like, how, how he goes. You want me to change my whole presentation? I'm like, yes, this, this, this is, this is not what they're here for.
And I know that's not what we're supposed to do at the abca, but I'm like, Brian, like, this is not what they're here for.
[01:20:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:20:35] Speaker B: And so at 11 o' clock the night before, he completely changed his whole presentation.
[01:20:39] Speaker A: And that's in the pre stuff too. Like that. That's why guys have done a better job. Their thank yous are usually one page slide at the end because of what you said. Like, if people are going to invest the time to show up, and I think that's why people continue to keep coming, is they know they're going to get information.
[01:20:56] Speaker B: Right.
[01:20:57] Speaker A: You're going to spend the money on the hotels and the travel and meals and all that.
Because we'll hear about it when, like, if we will hear about it from our members. Our members are awesome because they are honest with us, which is why our organization is good, because we do listen to what our members have to say. We're in the service industry. We're providing service to our members. So if you come out there and it's not handled right, we will hear about it from our members.
[01:21:25] Speaker B: Well, you're probably the number one speaker on this thing.
[01:21:31] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:21:32] Speaker B: You have more information than you know. I mean, everyone wants to hear, you know, Godwin speak and this and that's cool.
But you have more content that people are going to take notes on and maybe anybody on the whole thing.
[01:21:45] Speaker A: Well, he's different because he has more touch points across the industry because he's dealing with more players.
Right. Where a coach with his individual program, that's not as many touch points.
Kaner's got a ton of touch points from his history of when he started to. Now he's got a lot of different touch points on what he's dealing with and who he's dealing with.
[01:22:07] Speaker B: And so I was like, king, like, this is. This isn't it.
[01:22:11] Speaker A: Love it. Good.
[01:22:13] Speaker B: Start over. I'm like, start over. He's like, really? And I'm like, yes, start over. This is not. This is not it. So he's like, okay. He goes.
And then he Jacob his. He calls him a dfe do f and everything guy. He's like, jacob, five guys across the street, we need burgers, we need caffeine, let's go.
So he went and we just crushed it and redid his whole PowerPoint. And I mean he, I mean he crushed it. So like he always does.
[01:22:39] Speaker A: But I'm by the way, it's not the easiest thing in the world to get up in front of that room and. And do it.
[01:22:44] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:22:45] Speaker A: So you did a great job. Your speech was awesome.
[01:22:47] Speaker B: Love it. We love it. It's funny. I mean, we live for that stuff, you know, just sharing a message and you hope that there's someone out there that's going to impact act.
So we love doing it.
[01:22:55] Speaker A: It's, I think, the thing too, that people don't realize. Those of us that have been around a long time, there are new people in that room.
There are people that that's their first time or they just got started coaching.
So sometimes what you maybe think is remedial or everybody's heard that that's not the case because you're gonna have a thousand to two thousand new people in that room that have never heard any of that.
So it's okay to revisit some old stuff too when you're talking because that's probably going to be eye opening or earth shattering to somebody because it's gonna be the first time they've ever heard it.
[01:23:32] Speaker B: Well, that's true. And then my thought too, like sometimes my podcast, some of my messagings repeat and people give me a hard time sometimes they're like, you know, we heard this last year. And I'm like, yeah. And I took swings today too, just like I did yesterday.
[01:23:46] Speaker A: Well, yes, it's good to go back.
I equate it to reading.
I'll reread books that I haven't read in a while. And it speaks to you. They speak to you differently. Or go back and watch a movie that you haven't watched in a long time. It's going to speak to you differently than when you were watching it 15, 20 years ago because your experience levels is way different now.
[01:24:11] Speaker B: Now. Yeah, 100.
And I, I say that to them, honestly, I said, yeah, every single Monday Every single January, I'm going to talk about process over outcome. Every single February is going to be honest self evaluation. Every single February.
And I'm like, and it's not because I'm lazy and can't come up with new content. I'm. I said we. It's.
[01:24:30] Speaker A: Those are the foundations.
[01:24:31] Speaker B: It's a strategy.
[01:24:32] Speaker A: Those are the foundations. Yeah.
[01:24:34] Speaker B: And I'm like, we. We take swings every day because repetition makes us better. Why would we not do it in the mental game?
[01:24:39] Speaker A: Game, yeah, for sure.
[01:24:40] Speaker B: And they're like, oh, oh. You know, and I'm like. I said, I really feel like that's important.
[01:24:45] Speaker A: So what are some final thoughts before I let you go?
[01:24:49] Speaker B: No, I just think that, you know, we need to continue to push the mental game. Like, you know, it's just an untapped advantage and. And not an untapped advantage. I think it's going to help us to get our players to enjoy the game again, to get out of their own way and. And to get back to what we. We could call the little league mentality of just going out there and playing the game that we love so much. You know, eliminate anxiety, eliminate frustrations, eliminate fears, and just go play this special game that we love. And that's what these strategies are going to do for people.
[01:25:29] Speaker A: And it allows them to go past their. What their ceiling is.
[01:25:32] Speaker B: Go past.
[01:25:33] Speaker A: They're going to be better players or better performers.
You're going to be a better performer. Whatever your ceiling was. If you buy in and invest in this, your ceiling is going to. You're going to bust through your ceiling.
[01:25:46] Speaker B: You'll be able to bust through your ceiling.
You're going to bust through your ceiling. And here's how we're going to do it. By raising the floor.
We're going to raise the floor and raise the foundation so that when you don't need to rise up, you actually sync to your training. Yeah.
[01:26:01] Speaker A: And your poor performance isn't as poor as what it was before because you're gonna have. You're gonna have bad performances. Like, that's just 100. That's part of it.
[01:26:10] Speaker B: You're gonna roll it out there and you're gonna be able to compete in the present moment one pitch at a time, and you're gonna be able to be in that.
We talked about it before. You're going to get out of the threat. You're going to get into the. You know, you're going to be able to get into that compete mode by saying, you know, bring it on, because you have trust in who you are, because this is a process and a program to be able to develop that.
[01:26:35] Speaker A: By the way, you've been in my notes as a speaker for, like, two years, and honestly, it's like I have all these, like, I'll put names in and now was probably the time that we were supposed to record.
[01:26:46] Speaker B: Supposed to.
No, it is.
[01:26:48] Speaker A: It is. Think about the Bison webinars last night. Like, now is, like, the time where we were supposed to record. So that's why you gotta trust the universe.
[01:26:56] Speaker B: Oh, well. I mean, even the threat versus Challenge. Right. Like, that popped up last week, and I think it's such a big deal. Yeah. Yep. You know, threat versus challenge, you know, we hit on that hard, and I needed advice from you, and I. I need to figure out how to coach that.
[01:27:10] Speaker A: Love it.
[01:27:11] Speaker B: How do we get there? You know, so. No, I think the timing's perfect.
[01:27:14] Speaker A: So, Zach, thanks so much for your time. It's always great, man.
[01:27:16] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:27:16] Speaker A: When you get around Old Valley, guys, always good memories. Love it.
[01:27:19] Speaker B: Fun stuff.
[01:27:21] Speaker A: Peak Performance podcasts are always my favorite ones to record.
I feel like this space is beneficial to anyone, not just athletes. We can all use a nudge occasionally to get back on the path. I appreciate Zach's passion for coaching Peak Performance.
He doesn't like talking about his college playing days, but I'll speak for him that he was one of the most dominant college baseball players in the game in the mid to late 90s.
Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale, and Matt west and the ABC Offensive for all the help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via email or brownleeabca.org, twitter, Instagram or TikTok CoachBCA or direct message me via the MyBC app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off with American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks and leave it better for those behind you.
[01:28:13] Speaker B: Love for your and you.
[01:28:15] Speaker A: Know that way Yep Wait for another.
[01:28:20] Speaker B: Day and the world will always return as your life Never for your name and you know that way Way for another day.
