[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the ABCA's podcast. I'm your host Ryan Brownlee.
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Contact them today at 844-620-2707 or infoettingpros.com visit them online at www.nettingpros.com or check out NettingPros on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects. Make sure to let CEO Will Minor know that the ABCA sent you. Now on to the podcast Best Time of the Year with college season's already started and season is getting ready to kick off, we're doing something new this year with our college previews, giving each one a separate day of the week. We get things kicked off with the Dean of Division II Athletics, Wayne Cavatti. Wayne is the author of the D2 Report newsletter. It's a busy time of the year for him, covering both basketball and baseball. Wayne has been instrumental in the growth of Division 2 athletics in his coverage. Just put out a great article on January 31st in the D2Report Newsletter. D2Report D2 Baseball 2025101 A Crash Course Wayne has been hard at it since September researching this year's teams. You can also head back to the ABCA website to see all the preseason polls for every level of college baseball. Let's welcome Wayne Cavatti to The podcast all right here with Wayne Cavatti.
As they say, he's the dean of Division II all things Division 2, but he's been on with me a couple years now. So Wayne, thanks for jumping on with me.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: Oh yeah, always love to talk D2 baseball.
Like you said, I cover all things D2 and it's crossover season between basketball and baseball, so a couple tiring weeks here, but I'm looking forward to getting back out to the field for sure.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: And when I talked to Coach Erso last summer, he felt really good about them having an opportunity to repeat. And I know everybody started. For those of you who don't follow Division 2, they started already this weekend, so they're crushing right now. So I think everybody focuses on Division 1, but the other level start a lot earlier than D1. So it's good to see D2 going again.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what in a couple of weeks when everyone says college baseball starting, I always send out my little reminder that some of the best baseball's already been being played. And you mentioned Tampa. They got Georgia College, you know, right off the bat. Who super regional team from a year ago, top 15 in the country, won in a walk off on opening night. You know, good baseball already we got going on.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: And with collegiate baseball going away, we kind of took over some of the polls. I know there's other polls, but we actually have member coaches that are doing some of the other ones besides D1. And I just want to run down our top 25. I know you do, you kind of your power 10. But. But I want to kind of see what you think the coaches came out with here preseason and if you agree or if you got some other ones in there that maybe didn't get mentioned because obviously our coaches don't always get it right either. So we got Tampa, Angelo State, Central Missouri, Catawba, Point, Loma, North, Greenville, Augustana, Colorado, Mesa, Westchester, Southern, New Hampshire, Indianapolis, Lubbock, Christian, Georgia College, Indiana, Pennsylvania, unc, Pembroke, Texas, Tyler, Cal State, Monterey Bay, Young, Harris, Arkansas, Monticello, West Florida, West Texas A and M, Lee down in Tennessee, Arkansas Tech, Mount Olive, Missouri, Southern, Nova, Southeastern, Malloy, Florida Southern, Ashland and Minnesota State. That's our top 25. But there is a slew of schools that are on the outside looking in that our coaches I think did a pretty good job with. And so if anybody wants to look at that, they can go to ABCA.org and see our preseason polls for everybody. So how is that? I know it was a slew of names, but do you agree with what our coaches came up with?
[00:05:38] Speaker B: I do. I love it. Our top 15. Like, like you said, I do my power 10 and I have the first five out, so it's really a power 15. They're very similar. They're not obviously ranked the same order, but I'm glad to see that you have Augustana up there high. I have them number three.
They've won 47 games three years in a row. They, they're, they're just been a beast. They have all these returning players.
I love that you have Florida Southern in there. I think you said number 24, Rick Odette, you know, comes in there. It's kind of crazy. I think he told me it was 12 transfers, maybe even a little bit more. So new coach, you know, a coach so familiar with the region in that conference coming to us an historically, you know, dominant program that's had a few down years by their standards. And last night they come out and they beat nationally ranked West Florida on opening night. I think it was seven nothing. It was definitely a shutout. It was either seven or nine nothing. I forget. And he has all these new players gelling and it's just, it's great to see what a, what a coach like Rick Odette that has all this experience there with a new program can do right off the bat. I know it's one game. I'm not judging it, but I'm glad to see that they got recognized for the moves they made this offseason.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: Was he the most intriguing hire this off season or were there some other ones also?
[00:06:55] Speaker B: I mean, I think for me, you know, I'm in, I'm in Georgia, so the southeast region and the south region are where I have my eyes the most. I think that was, yeah, by, by far and away the just, you know, to come over from St. Leo that, that's had a few nice years with him there, pumped out a few, you know, professional players while he was there, you know, the minor leaguers. For him to come over to such a storied program that's looking to get back, you know, Tampa goes and ties them for the most national championships ever. And they go make a power move like this, trust me, it was intentional, you know what I mean? So, yeah, I think that was definitely the move that, that we was very eye opening this off season.
[00:07:38] Speaker A: Tampa probably the favorite just coming into the year. Tampa's probably the favorite.
[00:07:43] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Until somebody knocks them off.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: Yeah, they have to be. I mean, Angelo State is. They're more of a 1B than a 1A. Because just look what they've done, you know, But I mean, when you're Tampa, you're a powerhouse. You know, the transfer portals changed the game a little bit. And Tampa used to, you know, I think they. Coach Urso had admitted to you that he's always had the advantage of having those Miami, Florida State, Florida guys. You look at the program Tampa has, it's an easy choice to go there when they transfer. But now, you know, the, the almost instant eligibility that changes the game a little bit. And, and these guys stick around D1 a little bit more, transfer around D1 a little bit more. But I still think Coach Urso has a great eye for recruiting. Same. Same with a lot of the people in the south and Southeast.
So, yeah, it's, it's. It's interesting for sure. But I think Tampa is, is by and far the favorite.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: I think where you're going to see it swing, though, is with D1 putting the roster caps back in now. Now, is it perfect? Is it 38? Is it 37? It's not perfect because I still think it should be 34. But I think this is where you're going to see kind of that talent infusion back into Division 2, Division 3. NAI, because they're not going to. Schools aren't going to be able to hoard 60 or 70 kids in the fall of the Division 1 school. So they're going to be. I think you're going to see it kind of swing back for these schools at the other levels. I don't call them lower levels at the other levels. I think you're going to see it spread across now because there is going to be a firm roster cap for Division one when they start in the fall.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it definitely helps. I mean, even saw it this year and you know, like we said coming into the show, like I cover all the D2 sports and you know, during I started, I call them the D2 fall reports, like the guys at D1 baseball do. They do their fall reports. But compared to other sports like D2 football and basketball, especially D2 baseball, wasn't as decimated by the transfer portal going to other levels as they actually benefited more to the points that you were bringing up. You know, so while there has been a lot, like some conferences are a lot of change, but some of these teams like Tampa, Angelo State, you know, Augustana, they do have a slew of returners. Even though they need some of those transfers to come in and fill the holes. They have a lot of the Key pieces back. And that's something you didn't see really in the other sports that were just wiped out by the transfer portal. So I think that's why you have the Angelo State, the Tampa's, all the familiar faces on top of the rankings going into the season because they didn't get killed like, like other programs did. As far as returning talent.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: Then I think the other piece of that is the juco part. Like do. Does juco get two years and then you can go to a four year school and still play four years? I think that's the other outside looking in thing that I'm intrigued by.
There was a lot of talk about that at our convention with the other divisions is they were concerned and I was like, I actually think that's a benefit. Like I said, these kids can't go everywhere. So I think it's actually a benefit if a junior college kid can go two years to a juco and then still get four years at a four year school. Now they're gonna be 25 or 26 when they graduate. But it's almost like a Covid thing. Again, if they do come out and say, hey, they can play two years at a two year school and then still get four years at a four year school. I think it benefits every level for college baseball.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: I totally agree. Especially because, you know, the talent that comes out of the juco level, when they make the move to whatever division it is they go to from juco, it's great. You know, it usually sticks and the play doesn't come off. So yeah, to give these, like you said, you know, if you're looking to pump out pros, it may not be that way because once you're 25 or 26, you're a senior citizen in the minor league leagues, you know what I mean? But as far as for college baseball, yeah, I agree. I think it's a great thing that these, these kids get extra time and, and get to really develop and play it. You know, if they're lucky, two different levels.
[00:11:36] Speaker A: What else are you looking forward to for the season?
[00:11:39] Speaker B: I mean this opening weekend is, is been great. You know, the Houston Winner Invitational is always great. Central Missouri and Ashland played a great game yesterday. Central Missouri has to go play Arkansas Monticello today. That West Florida Florida Southern series. I told you, you know, just right off the bat, Tampa, Georgia College.
But I just think with the way that, you know, the game's different, there's no denying it. The transfer portal, the eligibility. These Covid years are finally weaning themselves out. Like it's finally, you look at North Greenville, it felt like they had that killer lineup for like 25 years. Like it was just so long. And then, you know, they had to bring in some new faces. They went, scored 42 runs yesterday in an opening day double header. So they're doing fine. But I think there is definitely more parody, you know, in D2 baseball now, which is great. I still think those, like I said, I still think those top teams are going to be the top teams. But I think, I think maybe not all the way to carry, but I think we're going to see a lot of surprise teams this year. Maybe not so much surprise, but to the person that doesn't study the game, like every detail of it, they will definitely be a surprise. Like I have Northwestern, Oklahoma State winning the Great American Conference. You know, I'm sure there's not a lot of people that are with me on that, but you look at the returners and they, speaking of juco, they got this transfer, Connor Green from JUCO last year, believe it was Citrus Community College, and he's a beast. And you know, you look at a Grand Valley State, Jordan Kerr took over last year. They won their first GLIAC title and then made it to the tournament, both first since 2016. So you have these programs that now have a little bit of advantage over the transfer portal, get to bring in whether it's new coaches or new players, whatever the case is. But they're building these new cultures and it's just going to be great. I think the west is something the west is always fun to watch. It's just crazy out there. You never know what's going to happen. But you know, Westmont was around last year, but they're really good and now they're eligible for the tournament. And it's like they handled Point Loma last year, who are kind of the kings of the west. And now it's like now that you're eligible for the tournament, I'm really, I think that's a great storyline. I think what Westmont can do in its second year of eligibility is definitely something to be excited about and watch.
So, yeah, there's just a lot of things, you know, and obviously once they get right now it's just a lot of out of conference, non conference play. But once you get into those regional conference, you know, games, it's just, it's so much fun to watch because there is no underdog. Everyone wants to beat everyone and prove they belong.
[00:14:17] Speaker A: When does that take effect for seating as far as region seating, well, the.
[00:14:22] Speaker B: Regional play usually starts roughly, I would say about March. Right. Like, so you have all of February to play in these preseason tournaments down in Florida or wherever they are.
And a lot of teams, as you know, in the Northeast and Midwest, they don't even start for two more weeks. You know, so it's that. It's that rolling start. So once the regional play starts, which is usually early March, like nationwide, some other teams get into it a little earlier because they have warmer weather. But that's when really, that's when you could start getting the metrics of, you know, strength of schedule and how you're doing within region compared to out of region against common teams, because now you're playing the same common opponents, and that's when that really starts. And then obviously in May is when we start getting the regional rankings and really start to see them taking shape and really what that bracket's going to look like, which we really got to get that bracket to 64. Just going to.
[00:15:15] Speaker A: We're trying. I mean, that's. I do help with Division 2 now. So we, we have a couple other things that we're trying to get done for Division 2 right now. More practice hours in the fall and then actually more games in the spring. So those are the two things that, that we've been working on. I don't think we can do anything really till June, but we're, we're laying the groundwork here to get presidents and ads on board with, with more practice hours in the fall and then more games in the spring. I just, I believe more is better. I believe more flexibility is better.
And those guys brought it up at the ABCA convention. It's. It shouldn't be a difference. If Division 1 has 64 in the field, then Division 2 should get 64 in the field. And I completely agree with that part. By the way, you're going to have to update your background because that the new USA Baseball offices are. Are crazy. I've been over there. I went and spoke for them.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:16:04] Speaker A: You're going to have to get a new backdrop. You're going to be impressed when you go see the, the new facility at USA Baseball and shout out to the city of Cary because they did just extend their contract with the World Series. And I think that's an important step for Division 2 now, too, because, you know, everybody with Division 1 is Omaha with Nai, it's Lewiston with, you know, Grand Junction, Enid. I think Cary now is starting to put it in place. Where People think about Division 2 World Series and they think of Cary, North Carolina.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, to your point, it looks great now, but it has. Right. It's always been a great venue. It's. And it's a very cool environment. Just if you make it there as a team and you're an 18, 19 year old freshman and you're on this huge field that you know, you know, USA Olympians are training at, you know, it's, it's a great experience for them. And like you said, like we should have the road to carry just like there is the road to Omaha. It should be just, you know, it should be what everybody recognizes. It shouldn't have to be explained to everybody because it is a great destination and just, it's a great college sports. You know, the College cup is there a lot, you know, and there's just so much life and energy and it's such great ballpark. It's hard to hit home runs there. So when you see one of these kids hit one out of the park, it's really exciting. I mean, for the players and fans alike.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: I'm on that D2 coaches connect call now, which is cool for me. I love, I love it. Shout out to Division 2 for doing this. They do a monthly coaches connect call. So there's a coach from each conference that's on this call. I think an intriguing thing for the playoffs this year for the regionals is they're going to be able to adjust their roster after every, every game. So their travel roster is more than who they can have available to play. But once a pitcher rotates off, they can have one of those guys that's not on the roster. They can rotate, rotate their roster after every game, which I think is a really cool idea to get more people involved and I think gives better teams a chance to.
[00:18:02] Speaker B: Yeah. The other playoff changes I like is I like the super regional format now and I like the final series. That, that's going to be great, you know. Yeah, the three game, no matter what now final series is great. They did it in D2 softball for a few years. So it's, I'm glad that baseball caught up. But now that the, the super regionals being three days instead of that double header if necessary Saturday, I mean, that's a huge advantage for a lot of teams because that's a lot of baseball for, you know, you're five months into the season, it's, it's June, it's hot and you may have to play a doubleheader for your life. Right. Your baseball season on the line now you have those that extra day to rest up if you have to play game three. And I think those, although what you mentioned as well, all those changes for the playoffs, I think will make it more competitive and, you know, more balanced.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: I think it gives the best team the opportunity to win. And I think that's what a tournament should be, is you're giving the best teams the opportunity to get to carry North Carolina. And that's really hard. The doubleheader format is extremely hard because usually the team that wins the first game usually is probably going to win the second game too, just for momentum purposes. I think it gives even a team that may be not as good as the other team. I think it gives them an advantage in the doubleheader day. So I mean the goal should be to get the best eight teams to carry.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: And you know, luckily that's usually the way it turns out. I mean, if you look at the last four years have been, it feels like it's been the same teams. Like that just shows you how strong like these programs are.
You know, the Southeast is a wild card because I think you have 10 of the best teams in D2 baseball sitting in that region. So to repeat there, more power to you. But you know, you're going to have the Tampa's, you're going to have the Angelo States, you know, it's going to probably be Angelo State and Colorado, Colorado Mesa battling it to the end, you know, and it's good, it's good. That's what you want to see. You want to see the teams that have built these powerhouses continue just to tear it up.
[00:20:00] Speaker A: I still think they need to spread it around if they could like that would be. My next goal for them is to seed.
I think division one needs to do this too. You seed one through 64, one through 56 for D2 and 56 has to play one. And I know cost is a factor, but if you want to give everybody an opportunity, I think you should see the whole field and then go from there.
I still think you should be best to a 3 the whole time. So 1 in 56 or however you want to do it, if it's playing game to get to that, that round number where they, they play two out of three the entire time through, where you add another weekend onto the front end of it, I think that's the fairest thing to do. And you might see a few more upsets that way too. You could possibly see a few more upsets that way also.
[00:20:47] Speaker B: Yeah, you're not gonna.
[00:20:48] Speaker A: I'm a dreamer when it comes to a lot of that stuff.
[00:20:51] Speaker B: You're not going to hear complaints from me about more baseball. So it would be cool. I just. Yeah, you know, it's kind of like walk before you run. And I think getting the 64 teams is really the first the step because, you know, I'm just looking at that, you know, how the, the regions will change number every year based on, you know, the membership at each region. And that Atlantic region going from seven to six teams is just insane because you look at the PSAC and you got Millersville, iup, Seton Hill. I think slippery rocks is going to be great this year. East Stroudsburg, and I'm probably forgetting somebody huge. But that's five or six teams right there. And then you got the MAEC to play into that. And I mean, you want to talk about snubs, there's going to be 2 or 3 and it's just because it's not an 18 bracket like everywhere else. So I would love to see that just for some of these schools that really deserve that, like you're saying the best teams, like some of these schools that really deserve a chance need to get in there and have that chance.
[00:21:51] Speaker A: Hey, on your sub stack, you put out a projected field of 56. How are you getting much interaction with that?
[00:21:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, and for people that want.
[00:22:00] Speaker A: To go there, it's wayne cavadi.substack.com so if you want to go interact on that.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a D2 report is the, the name of the substack. But you know, it look, it's for fun. I say right in the article, if half of these are right, like it's a miracle. There's, there's.
Nobody threw a pitch when I did that. There's. Injuries can happen. You know, anything can happen throughout the season. But like I said, when it comes to D2 baseball, those regions are kind of top heavy and there are a lot of familiar faces. So did I throw a few darts on program? You know, I talked to not every coach, but I talked to a lot of coaches starting in September all the way up to like this past week before the season.
So I kind of have a feel of, you know, the returners that are there. What kind of impact is it just body, you know, bodies fill the holes or are you really bringing in impact transfers? So I think when it looks like I'm throwing darts on some of these teams at the bottom half of the of, you know, the brackets, I think that they're, they're definitely legitimate choices. I'm not just trying to. It may be entertaining and saying, wow, look at this. I think there's a lot of teams that could sneak in there this year. So once, like we were talking about a little bit earlier, once we get in the regional play and we have some of those metrics, I'm going to do the field of 56 every two weeks until March and then I'll try to do it more frequently. But once we get those metrics, it will start taking actual shape. Like I think that we'll have an idea of what it will look like. But for now it was, you know, it was fun and, and there's always going to be a, a fan of a school that tells me I forgot this guy or forgot that guy. And I think it's great. You know, you, you look at schools like, like Trebek and Nazarene, that, that switch from GMAC to the Gulf South. I mean, you want to talk about a world of change. They were really good. Like I would have had them in the Midwest, you know, easily in the field of 56. But now you're in the south.
So that's a cool story kind of to watch, to see what they could do. So obviously you're going to have people that are not happy with, with rankings, but keep in mind it's a pre season. Like I said, I did that on Wednesday. So it was before a pitch was thrown. And you know, it's as much entertainment as I do think what's going to happen. But you should take it for entertainment value when it's that early in the day.
[00:24:12] Speaker A: I say it all the time. Every job looks easy when you're not the one doing it. You know, somebody, he. If you disagree, go ahead and put your own poll together. Like start your own website, start your own deal and start, start throwing your teams in there. It's not an easy job. It's. It's extremely difficult.
[00:24:27] Speaker B: So yeah, and that's what I love. I don't know if you've seen them, but the D2 baseball guys, you know, on Twitter, they started their own website this year and they have that now. They have their own poll and they have their own players of the year and I love that there's. I don't see them. I talk to them all the time. I don't see them as competition. I think it's great that we have more voices, you know, and perfect game. They've had Nick for years, you know, so it's great to have more than me telling you what I think, you know. And for a long time that's really outside of polls that are just list names and don't really tell you any insights. That's really all there was and it's great to. I don't ever see it as competition. I see it as a way to get these kids names out there deservingly and just making more noise.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it shines more light. The more, the more, the better with that. The more people we have involved that love Division 2 sports, Division 2 baseball. The more people we have involved with that, the more the game grows.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: I agree totally. I love it.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: Any other shout outs before I let you go?
[00:25:23] Speaker B: Just, I'm just really. Well, you mentioned my newsletter. I'm just really grateful for all the coaches and sids and I pester the heck out of them to get those fall reports and you know, I know everyone's busy and I know, you know you're not always in your office during October because you're either on the ball field trying to get as much practice as you can or you're not. It's not baseball season yet. So I just, you know, I want to give a shout out, especially D2SIDS. I know how thin they you're doing every sport. You're usually a team of one. And I'm just grateful for everyone that subscribes to that newsletter and everyone behind it that helps me get the information I need. And it's been, this year has been, you know, it's my fifth year. It's been larger than ever and I can't do it without them. So you want, you want to talk about a shout out. That's definitely who I'd love to like to give it to.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: Love it. Thanks for your time. Wayne, where are you going to be at here the first few weeks? Where are you going to go watch?
[00:26:16] Speaker B: I'm going out to North Georgia. I was going to go last night but we got washed out. It was. They played but it was cold and rainy and I'm almost 50. I don't need to. I could watch that one at home and go when it's nicer. So I'm going to be at North Georgia this weekend in a couple of weeks. I know North Greenville comes to Shorter. You know who's in conference? Carolinas now they moved from Gulf south so I'm definitely going to go check out that game. I love what Shorter does. I think they do a lot with, you know what they have in that program and I love to watch them play so that you know I'll be back and forth between them. West Georgia got moved up to D1, so they were usually where I tried to get to early season because they're so close to me. But it's going to be a lot of North Georgia and shorter and then I usually try to get down to Columbus State as soon as I can.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Awesome. Thanks again for your time, Wayne. Appreciate you. Have a great spring.
[00:27:03] Speaker B: You too. Thank you.
[00:27:04] Speaker A: I say it a lot. This is the golden age for college baseball at all levels. Our sports writers have a lot to do with the growth at every level of college baseball. I appreciate all their efforts in shining light on our programs, coaches and players. Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale and Matt west in the ABCA office for all the help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via
[email protected] Twitter, Instagram or TikTok CoachBabca or direct message me via the MyBCA app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off with American Baseball Coach's Association. Thanks and leave it better for those behind you.
[00:27:52] Speaker B: That way Yep Wait for.
[00:27:54] Speaker A: Another day.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: And the world will always return as your life was never for your and you know that way Wait for another day.
