Tyler Goodro - Owner & Founder, Goodro Catching

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the abca's podcast. I'm your host ryan brownlee. This episode is sponsored by Netting Pros. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Netting Professionals specializes in the design, fabrication and installation of custom netting for backstops, batting cages, dugouts, BP screens and ball carts. They also design and install digital graphic wall padding, windscreen, turf, turf protectors, dugout benches, dugout cubbies and more. Netting Professionals is an official partner of the ABCA and continues to provide quality products and services to many high school, college and professional fields, facilities and stadiums throughout the country. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Contact them today at 844-620-2707 or infoettingpros.com, visit them online at www.nettingpros.com or check out Netting Pros on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects. Make sure to let CEO Will Minor know that the ABCA sent you now onto the podcast. Today's guest is someone who spent more than 15 years immersed in the game of baseball, not just playing it, but teaching it, coaching it, studying it and helping shape the next generation of players. Tyler Goodrow has worked with thousands of youth, high school and collegiate athletes as a player development instructor, coach, catching specialist and scout. His baseball journey has taken him from Creighton Prep. Ray was a two time first team all Nebraska selection and helped lead his team to a state championship at historic Rosenblatt Stadium. College baseball at Arkansas, Butler Community College and the University of Cincinnati. As a catcher, Goodrow helped Butler reach the NJCA World Series and earned All Tournament honorable mention honors after hitting an incredible.461. Goodrow later signed as a non drafted free agent with the Los Angeles Dodgers and went on to spend five seasons playing professional baseball, gaining first hand experience alongside behind the plate players and coaches who reach the highest levels of the game. But Goodreau's impact on baseball goes well beyond his playing career. He served as an area Associate scout for both the Minnesota Twins and Philadelphia Phillies, evaluating talent across Nebraska and Iowa. He's coached at the high school, college and professional levels including stops with Creighton Prep, Elkhorn South Lincoln, Salt Dogs and the University of Nebraska Omaha. Goodrow is also the founder of Goodrow Catching Certified Rapsodo and On Base U instructor. A student of modern player development technologies including Trackman, K Vest, FlightScope and Echotronic, Goudreau has presented at ABCA Barnstormers Clinics, participated in the ABCA Catching Hot Stove panels, has been featured by the Athletic for his expertise in the art of catching. So today we're going to dive into the world of catching. Player development, scouting, recruiting, what it really takes to develop players from youth level all the way to professional baseball. And also his current work with six Tool app. Welcome Tyler Goodrow to the podcast. Here with Tyler Goodrow, owner of Goodrow Catching coach. College high school, scouted for a little bit, played at Arkansas, Butler Community College, Cincinnati and in the Dodgers organization, but has been at this thing for a long time. So, Tyler, thanks for jumping on with me. [00:03:41] Speaker B: No, I appreciate it. I joke about that with that intro that feel like I'm the guy that started the transfer portal, just how many spots that I've been in, you know, so talking about that on the ride [00:03:53] Speaker A: in the other day, I'm like, you know what? He's in the original crew of guys that, that bounced around. And I mean, just, just speak to that a little bit because you honestly were doing that before anybody else was. People were moving around like. And that's why I try to tell people I coached in the 90s, we didn't have a transfer rule back then. So guys left places that they were at. It just, you just didn't see it as much. But guys were still leaving back in the 90s too. [00:04:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I think when I jumped into Arkansas, you know, it was the glamour of, of going to an SEC school, especially from where I'm from, you know, Omaha, Nebraska, where, you know, we host the College World Series, you get to see just, just, I mean, they're, they're like our professional teams when they come in for June at that time. And Arkansas, at the time when I went and committed and went down there for the fall of 05, they were a top 25 team. And now they're a perennial powerhouse, top five team in the country every year. Van Horn has done a great job there. But, you know, I saw myself sitting the bench, didn't want to sit the bench, wanted to be that guy that got in right away, thought that I was better than probably where I was at at that time as a freshman. I wanted to make an impact, but I didn't think I was going to make an impact at Arkansas. So I transferred, went to juco, and at that time, I don't know if the rule still exists, but not in today's world. I'm guessing it doesn't. But it was called the 4, 24 rule you had when you left a four year, you had to graduate from the two year to go back to a four year. Unless you got drafted or something like that. And there were some other stipulations that took place there. Didn't really look at it. Juco ball was, was pretty, it was a, it was eye openening. Especially from when you go from the an SEC school when you got brand new gloves sitting on your, on your chair to you're having to go buy. Buy gloves at the local, you know, dick sporting goods or academy sports or wherever it might be at that time. And then, you know, leaving juco, going back to Division 1, trying to figure out what, you know, is this the role for me? And then, you know, again, just kind of playing, playing throughout my career and just trying to find what the best spot is for me to, to continue my career. I didn't want to quit after college. I wanted to see how far I could take this thing. [00:06:08] Speaker A: Did Dave Van Horn, he had just left Nebraska, right, to go to Arkansas around that time? [00:06:12] Speaker B: Yeah, he was. Yeah, so I think it was oh two. He left Nebraska, went to Arkansas in 03, took him to the College World Series in 04. So that was my junior year and then 05 when I graduated high school. I'm like, this is where I want to go. It's not too far away from home, just far enough. I had been recruited by some other pretty big schools at the time that were perennial powers going to the College World Series. And this is, you know, pre, pre transfer portal nil and all that stuff. So, you know, schools like on the west coast, like Stanford, usc, they were consistently coming to the College World Series along with like Miami and Florida. I had dream schools where I wanted to go. Every year I would go grab a hat of a team that I didn't have at the College World Series. I'm like, all right, I'm going there next year. You know, that's my new favorite school. So. But no, Van Horn had really, I mean, even with Nebraska, you know, Nebraska was not on the map whatsoever. And you know, they had decent, they had decent teams in the past. You know, I mean, Darren Erstadt, you think about a guy like that was number one overall draft pick and you know, he just, they just could never get over that hump. And Van Horn was the guy that set him off. And I think he, he understood that it was, you had to kind of do it. A balance of some high school kids and some junior college kids, and those teams ran and went with it. [00:07:29] Speaker A: And that was Brian Clary, the head coach of Cincinnati. [00:07:33] Speaker B: Brian was the head coach when I went to Cincinnati, Yes. And then his assistant, great Great guy. Yep, absolutely. And then my, our assistant coach was Brad Metter who's now I believe the general manager for Cincinnati Reds. So we had a good coaching staff, believe it or not. Up until this last year. I believe we held the regular season record in wins when I was at Cincinnati. And then I think we, we finished, it was the whole, it was still in Tower 5. We played in the Big east at the time Cincinnati was in the Big east. Had some, you know, good competition playing against some guys. My guess would be future hall of Famers, believe it or not. And then we finished second in, in the regular season and second in the conference tournament and didn't make, didn't make the NCAA regional. So it was kind of a letdown for us. But we had a really good year that year. But I was at Cincinnati I think [00:08:29] Speaker A: with the new JUCO stuff that came out. I think I read that they're getting rid of the 424. [00:08:34] Speaker B: Oh, I would assume that they would. [00:08:36] Speaker A: Which is great for juco. Now they're starting to align the, you know, because of our meetings that we have. Like that was always the rub from the junior college side is that it's harder for a junior college transfer going in as a sophomore junior eligibility wise than it is for a kid that's been at a four year school, which wasn't fair. I really like the new stuff that's coming out for junior college. I think it's going to help them a lot from a transfer status allowing more kids to have opportunities to go to four year schools that maybe wouldn't because it just didn't make sense that it shouldn't be harder for a junior college kid from a grade wise. [00:09:12] Speaker B: No kidding. [00:09:12] Speaker A: It just never made any sense. [00:09:14] Speaker B: No, it didn't. I think for me too I was able to complete my degree and accelerated race especially when at the time Cincinnati was a trimester school. So I, I was a baseball player first of course, in a, in a way like a student athlete. Right. You always say oh, you're a baseball player before you're the, the student. And I just tried to take as many credits as I could. My, my sole mission. Where I was at, where, where that was Arkansas Butler or that was Cincinnati was to, to play baseball obviously to get my degree. And I was able to get my degree in a three and a half year span which was nice for me and which in a way it kind of helped me go into that junior college route in the sense of getting my education allowed me to again graduate early. [00:10:04] Speaker A: Did it Take you a while to get settled in at Butler. You know, I always think about this with guys that leave because obviously leave for multiple reasons and some, a lot of it's playing time more than anything else. Did it take you a little bit to get adjusted a Butler coming from Arkansas? [00:10:19] Speaker B: No, it didn't. And, and the reason being is because when I was setting out to look for another school or at least opportunity to go play, right away I looked at Yavapai Junior College. Actually my dad played at Yabba Junior College for Gary Ward when Gary Ward was head coach there. They won the national championship and then my dad followed Gary to his first local state teams. So I looked there first. Would have been great to go to Arizona especially, you know, growing up in the Midwest where, you know, if it's going to rain, you know, storm. Right. I don't know. You know, I mean it could hurricane for all you know up here. And we get earthquakes too every once in a while. But no, leaving, leaving Arkansas and then going to Butler was an easy transition because there were five or six Omaha Nebraska guys here, like legitimate Omaha Nebraska guys. One of my high school teammates, one of our best pitchers was at the, was at Butler. And you know, that core nucleus, having those guys together allowed us to make a run at the Junior College World Series my that year. So it was cool. [00:11:28] Speaker A: What's it look like training wise for the guys that you train this time of year? What's summertime look like? [00:11:33] Speaker B: You know what, they're still full go. There's a. We have a bunch of college guys in right now. They're getting prepared. Some of the guys are either leaving, whether that's they were in the Northwoods Cape, they're coming back. We're training a lot of college guys and I have two little boys that I'm still kind of throwing BP to and batting practice. One is transitioning into football right now, but we still see quite a bit of guys in the facility, which is, which is nice in a lot of ways. In some ways, you know, it's like, you know, you need a rest but maybe their brain's still triggered on baseball right now, which is, which is fine with us. Where I start to kick off my heavy season when it comes to training is right around late September into October. And then we go heavy for about six or seven months. You know, pretty straightforward. We're, we're grinding five days a week and in our actual academy, when it comes to our catching academy and then we're, we're grinding seven days a week. As we go. But that really kicks off early September, or, excuse me, late September with your [00:12:40] Speaker A: college guys that you train. How many of those guys need to be ready because those schools are starting right away. And then how many guys get a little bit of a breather when they get back on campus? [00:12:50] Speaker B: I would say nobody takes breathers around here. Yeah, it's honest to God truth. You know, I think a lot of guys have missions and goals, you know, and some of the. We have a couple guys that are transferring that enter the portal and they're going to other places. So I want them to be prepared. I think they want to be prepared. They want to make impacts, you know, in the, in the era of nil, when you're getting paid to almost play this game, you know, you're, you're losing a little bit of amateur status, I'm guessing, to say the least, that guys are, you know, they're, they're ready to go. Like it's called what it is. Game three of the College World Series, you know, championship final. Like, that's, that's how they're training these days. And that's good in some ways. And I think in other ways, I think you need to reset too. But we want to make sure that our guys are ready to go. Whether that's making an impact in the fall. You know, they are playing ball games. They obviously, they don't mean a whole lot, but they mean a lot for them. And where they're going to be at, you know, come, you know, that, that February time frame where they're heading off to their seasons, whether that's they're going to hit in a three hole, they're going to, you know, catch every single day or they're going to play third base or whatever it might be. Just I want them ready to go, but there is no breathers around here. Yeah, that's for darn sure. [00:14:09] Speaker A: Do you feel like it's gotten more like professional baseball in that way? Because guys do bounce around to a lot of different schools now. [00:14:16] Speaker B: I do, I do. You know, I had a conversation with somebody the other day. They asked me the question about, like, do you like it? And I said, you know, I think back in the day, for me, like we had mentioned earlier, I think for me it would have been something that I would have liked just because I wanted to find the right fit. Now one thing that I do feel like that they ought to do is they need to tighten up the guardrails a little bit about how many times you can transfer. But I think Finding the right fit, not just trying to seek the, the highest dollar amount is tough. I mean, when it comes to professional baseball, yeah, there's the guys that are, you know, at the latter part of their careers are only signing one year deals, maybe two year deals. So extend them out. Maybe you got to be out of school for two years. Maybe you got to be, you have to complete something before you decide to transfer. You maybe transfer one time. You can't transfer within the conference, something like that. I, but I don't mind it only because again, I, you know, there might be somebody out there that doesn't get along with a coach or a coaching staff or the head coach and, you know, is that going to play a big part in their role? Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. So I think, yeah, in some ways, yes, we're transferring way too much. In other ways, we got to limit that too. [00:15:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I think we had it right. Like you should get one free one and then after that you should have to sit out a year. I always felt like there should be a graduation component for nil money. You should have to graduate, no doubt. But I, I get both sides of it. Obviously kids need the money, but I always felt like you could keep kids on campus more if they knew they had to graduate to get their money or at least if they signed a professional contract. [00:15:56] Speaker B: I agree. Yeah, that's a great point, Ryan. [00:15:58] Speaker A: You know, and it's interesting because this is something that we really haven't had to deal with on the college side. You know. Yeah, it was scholarship part, but now you add the money piece in because there was multiple coaches that I talked to this spring that the guys that were on their most nil money, some of those guys weren't traveling at the end of the year. So that's the other thing I think kids need to be educated on. Just because you're getting money doesn't mean that it's automatic that you're going to play because coaches are trying to win. So, and, and I think sometimes kids aren't equipped because kids talk, they know who's on money, they know who's not on money. And if kids aren't performing and there's that added pressure, then of, okay, I'm on this amount of money. And some kids aren't equipped mentally to handle that part of it either. But again, that gets them ready for the next thing. And if you do want to play professional baseball, then you're have to get over that thing too, mentally. [00:16:48] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I think the thing that, and I had another conversation with somebody else that's towards the tail end of their college career, right where they've, I won a national championship and they've, you know, they played at some pretty recognizable schools when it comes to college baseball. But like I, what are we doing to these kids? We're giving them money and you know, these, I think a lot of the coaches and I remember somebody having a conversation years ago about somebody like college coaches are in win now mentalities because their job's on the line. And I remember having a conversation with Kai Correa who I believe is now with the Mets. He's the bench coach for the Mets. Kai made the comment of like, when you go to professional stadiums you see statues of the players. When you go to collegiate stadiums, you see statues of the coaches. So you know that, you know, the focus is around the head figure which is the coach. And I think we're seeing just a little bit. I think that's the thing that worries me. It's like, let the players go play, like. And my advice to the person was like, I have this opportunity where there's this possibility of playing a fight a fifth year, the 55 rule. And I haven't looked into it much because it hasn't affected me personally. Or go play and start your, your professional career. And he's like, go start your professional career. You want to get to the, if you want to get to the show, like, think about the kids that they're drafting. They're trying to draft 18, 19 or well, 17 to 18, 19 year old shortstops and trying to, you know, fast track them to the big leagues because they want their money in work. If I'm, if I'm a collegiate player, like, I want to get out as fast as I can, regardless if I'm getting 100 grand, you're still taxed on all that, Stu. So you eventually you're, you know, the money's going to run out. Why not just go start your, your professional career? And, and it's eventually it's going to come full circle where somebody's just gonna be like, all right, this is like, are we, Somebody's gonna step in. Somebody has to intervene with it. I'm not a big fan of, of Again we go back to the transfer rule because like you're pulling all that stuff, like, how do you get yourself settled, number one? Number two, it's like, what does that do for the kids and the crop that are coming up behind you? Like, what does that tell you? Are you playing for money? Are you playing for, you know, the. The. Are you playing a win? What are you. What are you trying to do here? So I think it's just a. It's kind of a jumbled mess right now. There's just so many different, just, you know, like, arms and tentacles to this whole thing. It's like we just need a. We need a bring it in full scope. [00:19:26] Speaker A: And for me, the biggest difference between minor leagues and college now is way more people know if you're not doing well at the college level than they do going to a Greensboro Grasshoppers game where there's 100 people in the stadium. That's the difference. Like, right. It's way different being on a college campus in those environments than it is being in the minor leagues. There's a lot less pressure trying to get through. And yes, it's hard to make it to the big leagues. Let's. But yeah, way more people know if you're struggling on a college campus than they do if you're struggling in the minor leagues. Way more people. [00:19:59] Speaker B: No doubt, no doubt. I think, you know, just flip this a little bit to, like, recruiting. When I was recruiting kids, I would just tell them, like, you know, my. My goal is not. Yeah, our goal is to win, of course, like, we want to win conference championships, we want to play as long as we can, and, you know, ultimate goal is to get to Omaha. But when you're in a small mid major, it's up to do that. So what's the next best thing? Like, let's get you prepared and develop for the next level. Well, I looked at that window as like a year and a half of. Of time frame of what I had to develop. So when I was going to recruit, you know, kids always ask me all the time, wait, how do you recruit catchers? Well, bat number one. Bat number one. Your bat's number one. Number two is your arm. Number three, I can teach you how to receive and block, and then I can teach you the game components of it if I allow you to, you know, loosen my leash a little bit and say, hey, go play the game. This is. And we're having those conversations and you're having kind of IQ sessions that are taking place over the course of the week. Right. But. But I think that's the other thing too, where it gets kind of, you know, muddled is, you know, how are we recruiting players and what are we recruiting for? So how are you training to prepare yourself for that? I think you have to train yourself for that pro mentality now. It's tough to say. Not everybody's going to get drafted, not everybody's going to sign a free agent contract and everybody's going to go play independent baseball. But you have to prepare yourself for a year and a half status and get yourself ready to go. Because as a coach too, right. I mean we have to prepare them for, to be there for a year and a half. And I say a fall and potentially a full season and then another fall or you know, you don't know what these kids are thinking. They're chasing money, you're chasing dollar bills. [00:21:37] Speaker A: So what were the things that were eye opening to you when you got to the college side? When you got to un. [00:21:45] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I think it was still kind of early stage. We, we just, we didn't have an nil budget. So I think, you know, partly is like, how do we coach these kids? How do we recruit these kids? I was there for a very short time, so to really make an impact of it, like I tried my best just to, you know, how can we coach, how can we get around some of these guardrails, these NCAA guardrails in terms of practicing and to develop the players as is, you know, kind of under a. Our culture, our what, what we're trying to do for our athletes and everything. So yeah, I think those were the things, you know, watch. [00:22:24] Speaker A: Probably the time constraints is the biggest piece for somebody that hasn't had to deal with the time constraints. Part of. Can be very frustrating as a college coach because your guys want to get better and you're kind of hamstrung. And I know at some of the bigger schools they probably pay attention to it anymore. But you know, if you are trying to stay within the guidelines, it gets frustrating for the coaches and for the players because you want to be able to help them as much as possible to get better. [00:22:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it does. And you know, my, my biggest thing is like we, if I could figure out and we had obviously all the class schedules and everything, so how could we manage their time? Right. And so I, I would contact buddies of mine that were in professional baseball, that were field coordinators that would set up all the times, hey, give me just kind of like send me your list. Like what does it look like? What does your daily like spring training look like? And they would send it to me and I'm like, okay, how can I manage this? We have X amount of coaches. So we were very, again, we were a small mid major. We didn't have a lot of time. There was a, we had a volunteer Assistant, which was helpful to us that had previously coached D2 baseball as the head coach of D2 baseball, Wayne State, Nebraska. And it was helpful that he was kind of our volley and allowed us to I guess be a little bit more hands on. Probably broke a few rules maybe once or twice. You know, I can't get reprimanded for it now because I'm no longer there. But we just set up schedules, we, we put guys into different groups, whether that be base running groups. We try to manage our time. How can we do base running, infield, outfield cuts, relays, all the baseball situational stuff that we could jam pack into a short period of time of our 20 hour work week. [00:24:16] Speaker A: Shout out to Evan Porter, by the way. Shout out Coach Porter. We'll miss you, miss you in the game by the way. So how, what are the youngest age kids you work with? [00:24:32] Speaker B: It'd be crazy. I'd be crazy to say, but a six year old who's, you know, lives in my house. But no, you know, I probably, truthfully, eight years old is probably eight, nine years old is kind of around when we start kids in our academy, our catching academy, you know, so but as far as it goes, you know, I'm a very, how I run my field General academy, it's very rep based. We do high volume solely because I want the athlete to coach themselves or learn how to coach themselves. My job, I think Jerry Weinstein, the great Jerry Weinstein is quoted by saying, you know, my job is to eliminate my job. And I, and I take that to heart as I do coach, I ask a lot of questions, I make sure that they understand the why. These kids at a young age, they're looking for answers, they're not trying to look for solutions. And so that's just kind of how we, we manage our, our time, we manage our, our volume is, is just again high, you know, very, very hard and chaotic reps and that goes all the way from 8U all the way up to the professional ranks. You know, there's days where when I work for some professional guys, it's like are we working on just specific, you know, detailed skills or are we trying to go crazy chaotic here? Like it's you know, game seven of the World Series and there's runner on third base and that's the tying or winning run. So but yeah, that we, we start that young. With my kids, I mean I just, I like to have fun. Just you know, I don't do a lot of coaching with them. I let them swing the bad My focus with them is effort and attention. My son, my, my, my son to watch baseball, which I love, but it's, it's in short spurts because it's YouTube shorts or it's reels or something like that they're seeing on YouTube so they're not watching the full game. But you know, I like the fact that my kids will emulate players and I think that's an important cue for, for young kids to understand is like, hey, emulate it. We all used to do it. I mean I remember having a Ken grippy swing when I was, you know, 8 years old and I was right handed hitter. So I mean we all, we all did it. You know, then it morphed into don't hold this against me but Alex Rodriguez, I mean I had the high leg kick and you know, the waggle of my hands on the top of my shoulder. But that's kind of what the big thing is. It was like focus on being you. You know, we can have the most ugliest looking swing and like, like I'm not nothing against the guy because he had a tremendous career, but like Hunter Pence had an ugly swing but that [00:27:07] Speaker A: ball skills were elite and ran like people don't. He was, I was at a game, I think in 07 he was a rookie with Astros and I would always take my stopwatch. He ran a 38 from the right side on a swing to first base. [00:27:24] Speaker B: That's crazy. [00:27:25] Speaker A: Who is this kid [00:27:29] Speaker B: two operas out to second base? [00:27:31] Speaker A: So how do you adjust then? How are you modifying what you're doing with 8 year old then up to the pro guys? Because I think that's the key to developing drills. I think any, any age level can do a drill, but you may have to do some modifications depending on what their age is. [00:27:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think it's speed and the, the, the type of ball we use. So when we do blocking drills, Ryan, we, we always use a ball, the ball's always moving, whether that's it's at us and you know, just so the kids are getting used to the vision aspect of it. I don't think there's a whole lot of vision training that goes into our training that we do. And so we try to do as much as we can, making them comfortable, you know, knowing, I guess the pain tolerance with these young, young men, including the, the older kids as well then and the pro guys, what's their pain tolerance? What's their, you know, what's their aptitude? Are they understanding why? And I think that goes Hand in hand with both. Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna go a little bit slower here, but we're gonna go a little bit faster over here. And so I think it's just, it's a matter of like, understanding who you are working with, with your personnel that day. When we do, we do a lot of group stuff with the younger kids, which helps us, I guess. Just, it's. It's chaotic. I want them to feel flustered because in the game, when they go out there, everything should feel like it's on, you know, auto drive or cruise control and they know how to get themselves out of a rut. [00:28:58] Speaker A: You mentioned arms earlier. Do you feel like you can clean up arm action? [00:29:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I do, but I also believe that, you know, I'll use this for example, and, and back in 2017, I think it was, it was. I think it was my first ABCA convention that I went to Ryan Cienco, who's now with the, the Tigers, who's the catching coach for the Tigers. And I think he might get a bench coach, too. He's just, he's just accelerated his roles, you know, throughout his career. But anyways, Ryan put out on, on Twitter one day, hey, go on the abca, setting up some conversations. Reach out if you want to sit down and have conversation. And that's just what, what the community is about. I love that Ryan invited and I. So I went into his room, we're sitting there talking, and he shows me a side view. And this is a kid I don't know at this time. And this guy is like, got this funky looking arm action. And he goes, what would you do to this? And like, first off, I'm just excited to be in, in your room here, Ryan. We're talking catching. I don't know anything about this player, but I was like, oh, I would do this, this and this. And he goes, now you wouldn't do a single thing. You know why? Because that guy's 19 to the bag. And it was Will Smith. And I'm like, interesting. Okay, so, yeah, he's got the ugliest looking throwing motion. It's kind of like we were just talking about 100 pants, right? But what would you change? Nothing. I mean, you got to understand who the athlete is. And that, that, I think, allowed me as a coach to really investigate a little bit more, trying to figure out exactly what's. What the diagnosis is. You know, is it. Is it more volume? Is it less? Is it a correction here? Are they not maximizing the potential? Are they not being fluid or are they not being an athlete? And so I was asking a lot of those questions now, and I still do to this day. And when we get guys going, you know, the younger kids, it's a little bit easier. We can go a little bit more just because they're not, they don't have a framework yet. And we're trying to build that for them. But also, you know, I'm not trying to cookie cut any players. And I think that's fair to say. And I think a lot of coaches would say that now to this day, like, I'm not trying to cookie cut a hitter. I'm not trying to cookie cutter a catcher. I want them to be comfortable, relaxed, confident, strong. And on all the words that, that apply to whether that you're. You're a receiver, blocker, thrower or you're a hitter. Right. And so as far as to answer that question, I mean, can I clean it up? Yeah. But is that going to take away from a strength of theirs? You know, could they be a little bit more long arm action and throw the ball 92 to second base like. [00:31:32] Speaker A: And again, that's the quick and accurate. Then they're good. But then obviously you're not. Not everybody's gonna get some guys spray it around. So how do you clean that up? I still think it's a front side adjustment. Now I was paying attention to the pitching like Jason Mizorowski with the Brewers. He, he has a weighted ball in his glove when he's throwing. And that was something that we always guys that were having direction issues, we would put a heavier implement in their glove side hand, which I think without even coaching any of the rest of it. The heavier implement I think will clean up a lot of direction issues, which then cleans up some of the arm action issues 1,000%. [00:32:09] Speaker B: And, and I'm glad you said that because there's. We do that a lot with our throwers too. We'll do a lot of bare hand stuff where they're catching the ball with their bare hand. But they do have some plyo ball or we use a tap connection ball too. So where they're squeezing the pressure of it. So when they're rotating around it. And I think again it goes back to a lot of like where your eye movements are. And I think. I can't remember who was talking about this too, but it, I think it's. Tom House is a. Tom House is big on level head, level eye. It's. Especially when you're warming up. So we do something. We've, we've implemented a lot of Tom House stuff. We've looked at. I'm trying to think of some other guys. Florida Baseball Ranch, Ron Wolfer. And just how can we improve our, our catchers. Accuracy, I think is a big one. Quickness is very easy. And to me it's not necessarily a band aid effect, but it's a very quick fix. The process of developing being arm strength is a process that extends over seven months. And if you're not being consistent with. That's why I think too. Like we go back to the first question that you asked me about these guys. Are they ready to go? Like how often do we take time off? No, it's when you were learning through. I just had a young man in here the other or yesterday. Excuse me. And his big thing is developing his arm strength. And I'm like, here's the deal. Like, like we talk about it. I go back to. I'm a big movie guy. So I think about the water boy. When Henry Winkler is up against the, the chalkboard, he's like, all right, we think about it. The quarterback thinks about faking. No, it's like we have to do it. We actually have to do the work. Like hashtag do the work. And long toss. We don't do enough long toss. I think, I think, you know not to say that I'm a. I love driveline, I love tread. I love what they're about. I love how they've helped players and revitalize his careers. But when you're in these colder weather environments, these playoff balls are not replacements for long toss. And I think some kids don't understand the concept of stuff like that. [00:34:11] Speaker A: I agree. I'm still long toss proponent. [00:34:16] Speaker B: Go for get out on a football field and go end zone. End zone. [00:34:20] Speaker A: Alan Jer and I have talked about this a lot. You know, there's a reason that the Latin guys for the most part stay healthy. Because they're outside, they play catch and they play catch for long distances and it's free and easy. And I think they condition their arms to stay healthier over an extended period of time. And hey, I'm glad you mentioned squeezing out front because that was something we paid attention to a lot with, with guys that threw hard but had good command on the mound is they squeeze their, their palm out front, which I think is another reason for the heavier implement because they, they actually squeeze front. I think that's a. Guys that throw hard with good command, I think they squeeze their, their glove side out front. [00:34:59] Speaker B: I have no doubt. And I think, like you said, it's like, if they can't feel that front side, the stress goes straight to the shoulder, which then goes down to the elbow. And that's when you're seeing those. Those arm injuries. So, yeah, I'm a big believer on the front side action. Balance has to take place on both sides. So when I go here to here, you know, and I'm doing my arm walks, and we call them arm walks, where you're moving your arms up and down. I don't know what Tom House calls them or where what anybody else calls them, we call them arm walks. We're taking two heavy balls, but you're counteracting both sides. You're. That's kind of like the throwing slot. Now, regardless, if you're a very long arm action guy, like, your balance needs to be the same, front, side to back side. And that's the same thing that we talked about with all of our throwers, catchers, infielders, whatever it might have been is like, are you. Are you balancing yourself? And then is your lower half engaged? You know, and, you know, I was coming up through. Through all this stuff, but trying to figure out what I wanted to do with. With my life in terms of coaching and everything. And I wanted. I felt like I wanted to go to the big leagues. Like, I started doing a lot of these certifications, whether that's on base U. And they talk about the pelvis turn, trunk turn, shoulder turn, and into hand turn. When it comes to throwing and hitting, a lot of that stuff is the same thing. So, you know, you got guys like Eugene Bleecker, who's, you know, he's got a. He's got a lot of different ideas, which is neat and cool, but, like, he talks about a lot of shoulder turn and torque, and you watch a guy like Paul Skeens, who's very aggressive with his shoulder, and he's got the water bags on top. So it's a lot for a little. But I. There's some things that I think about, too. It's like. But if you're not feeling like you're going back to initially, you're not feeling your front side, the arms way out here. It's got a brain of its own, and it's flying all over the place. Like, you're talking about the inaccuracy of your throws. [00:36:38] Speaker A: Are you using water bags with the catchers? [00:36:41] Speaker B: We do. We do. We do it for blocking a lot, too. Just so kind of. They feel like they're center Mass and which way they're moving and their balance. And we do it. We do it for a lot of different ways, too. Like throwing, popping up. How are they controlling their lower half their body and then again from the shoulder turn. Kind of like the Polski and stuff, except we're holding the water bag out in front of us. Because I think a lot of catchers and what we try to do is we try to get them going down a mound when we do it so they don't get their top half going too early besides their lower half. And I always ask kids this. I said, when you get onto an actual field, and I'm talking about high school kids and up that play on. Well, I wouldn't say everybody else, but there's. If you get onto a mound and you see like, or you're sitting behind home plate and you see your. The field's crowd, so it looks like you're throwing uphill. So, yeah, I just, I tell guys, like, you got to get into that backside. You kind of, kind of feel that recoil. And a lot of these kids want to take strides with their right foot. Foot. I'll bay their left foot, which is. Should be their left foot, right foot into the ground, left foot, stride, ball in hand, ball in air. [00:37:54] Speaker A: So how are you dealing with the young kids that maybe can't get balls to bases yet? How are you handling that? [00:38:00] Speaker B: I tell them throw them in the dirt. I do, I do. [00:38:03] Speaker A: Because I was that guy when I caught and shout out to my lily coaches because they were like, just get rid of it. And luckily our middle infielder could catch it. They're like, just long hop it down there. Just long hop it. [00:38:15] Speaker B: I do well, and that's to stay [00:38:17] Speaker A: because eventually they're going to develop into it. So you want them to get in the good habits of doing everything right. And yes, you may have to long hop it. We're not trying to break our mechanics down just to get the ball there for the young kids. [00:38:29] Speaker B: No, no. And I tell them all the time, I think a lot of the kids, like the arm strength is going to come because of. We want to get it there. But now you're making yourself slower. Like, let's teach you the foundation. What's our foundation going to be? The foundation, number one, is getting into a good throwing stance. Right. And at early age, we just know the game that I coach is not fun in some ways. And other ways, like, again, I get to coach my son, but in some ways it's not fun because the guy gets the first base, he's immediately going to second because the catcher keeps making the throw there. Pitcher doesn't know how to hold runners, and we're throwing the ball late to the plate and [00:39:05] Speaker A: should be closed bases, I think. [00:39:06] Speaker B: So. I, you know, a lot of people, like, somebody made a comment to me about Little league World Series 1009. He's like, you know what? Like, oh, yeah, I'm against that. That's stupid. They don't, they don't lead off all this stuff. It's like, no, it's, it's an equalizer. Yes. It allows them to be. Yeah, you can still turn. Double play the game. [00:39:23] Speaker A: I just, I think we, I know. And we're fighting, we're fighting for it in our office with that on a daily basis. I just overthrows any of that stuff. Just keep them where they're supposed to be at so the defense has a chance to actually play. And they will eventually learn how to do all that stuff as they get older. [00:39:41] Speaker B: So my only, my only thing when it comes to the Little League World Series is move the fences back and move the bases back a little bit, right? Just a little bit. And that'll allow the game to. Because I think it's like a home run or a single and the like. [00:39:54] Speaker A: Well, serious softball is what it is. It's a little bit softball. Do you think technology has made it easier or harder to coach players now? [00:40:05] Speaker B: I think there's so much information out there. It's, can your coach just decipher what's right and what's wrong? I like the technology. I'm a big believer in technology because I think it provides a decent measuring stick to see where the athlete's at. That I'm a big believer in blast motion sensors, especially for my kids. My kids wear them on their bats. Right. And, and it just. Regardless if the, the data means anything to them, it's just like, I want them swinging to that hard. I want them just being athletic in terms of like, we use technology. We used our track, man. When I was at uno, I would take the catchers out there and I would have them umpire. I'd feed the machine. I have these, these balls that have little curves in them so they move so that nothing's straight. And we would do. We would do fastballs, so we would. I'd turn it this way and kind of hold my hand in front and it would shoot out and they're receiving and the umpire back there's. Or the kid. The other catchers back there umpiring. He'd call ball or strike, and then I would look on the track, and I had the iPad next to me. I'm like, okay, yep, he stole that strike. And so I just wanted the guys to see differences with that. But I like that aspect of it. You know, I. I think at the pro game, I think it's good. I. I like it. A lot of people don't like. Some old heads don't really like the new game. [00:41:28] Speaker A: And it's like, clean it up. Yeah, like, get the call. It's just like anything else. Get the call, Right? Yeah, like, get the call. [00:41:35] Speaker B: Right, Right. I just, you know, I. Years ago, during COVID Ran. Ran a podcast ourselves, myself and another guy, and it was based around catching. We had Tony Arnrich, who is now the bench coach, in. In Cleveland. And Tony made the comment, he's like, it's. It's like horse betting. And he goes, I. I don't bet. He goes, but it's like horse betting. And it's like, I'm going, and I'm playing the odds, right? And it's like, when the shift came out, everybody's like, oh, look at this. Like, we shifted the guys over to the right side of the field. Left hand hit her up, and he hits a little dinkler dribbler down a third baseline. It hits third base, right? It's like a swinging bunt almost. Oh, see, the shift didn't work. Is. Is what he's talking about. It's like, yeah, but like, 78 of the time he's hitting the ball to the first baseman, 89 of the time he's hitting the ball on the ground to the second. You know, it's all this. These data is here. It's like, so we're playing the ship. Just one occurrence that didn't happen. I do like how they've kind of limited the shifts and everything. I do like the fact that, like, somebody was taught. I had a friend, a conversation with a friend. Oh, I think the abs has kind of ruined it for. For hitters. I'm like, I don't know. I think it's hitting so hard, especially when you had catchers, you know, ripping through balls and stealing strikes. I'm all for it, right? Because it gets my pitcher back in, you know? You know, in the shout out, and we're keeping his pitch count down. I like that aspect of it. I think it. It provided a whole new scouting. Scouting tool for. For scouts. I think that's extremely important. If you got good hands, you want good hands behind the Plate. I think a lot of that stuff has really improved the game and just how I see it. [00:43:28] Speaker A: And let's be honest, umpires, they're human. I automatic 3, 0 strike, and the automatic O2 ball always bothered me because the 3, 0 pitch, that's a borderline pitch, but it's a ball should be called a ball. You shouldn't reward the pitcher for throwing another ball. I like that it's cleaned a lot of that stuff up. Okay. If a pitcher makes a good pitch on oh2 and it's right there, it should be called a strike. Just again. But that's human nature thing that the umpires have always done that. I like the fact that it's keeping people accountable on their strike zones. [00:43:59] Speaker B: I agree. And I think. [00:44:01] Speaker A: And it's more uniform hitter than to like, as a hitter, I would rather know this is what my zone is going to be the entire season, rather than I've got to adjust my hitting zone depending on who's back behind the catcher. Like, it just cleans a lot of that up. Now a hitter knows his exact zone that he's got to hit in because that's on his size. [00:44:23] Speaker B: No doubt. And I think the umpires are so good, we don't realize how good they are, even if college umpires training. [00:44:30] Speaker A: And I'm like, hey, these guys haven't called a ball or strike in four months. Like, you think they're gonna be real good? Like, how good are you out of the shoot when you haven't done something for four months? Like, I'm like, get off their back. [00:44:43] Speaker B: No kidding. [00:44:43] Speaker A: Like, they're humans. They're trying to get reps into. It's spring training. It's not opening day, it's spring training. They're gonna make mistakes. [00:44:51] Speaker B: Now, some of the stuff that I could get do away with too. It's like, I think I was watching highlights yesterday of the Yankees game, and Caballero has this. Has this rule. It's like the Caballero rule now, like on the pitch clock, like, that stuff is like, come on. Like, let's just go. Like, he's ready to go, he's ready to hit. So he's not. He's not looking up or looks up right at eight seconds. Okay, well, that's the rule, right? You stated this is the rule. So that's the stuff that I don't appreciate, you know, but who knows? Maybe we won't. We won't see it for a while come next. Come next year with the lockout and everything. [00:45:27] Speaker A: How are you handling Calling games because not as many kids have to do it as much anymore. How are you, how are those, how are you communicating that with. With guys? Because it just, It's a lost art because guys just don't have to do it as much. [00:45:39] Speaker B: It is, it is. So, you know, again, I think I quote Jerry Weinstein, there's no always or nevers in this game. And there's no exact pitching science or pitch calling science to this. And I think a lot of it has to do with feel as far as catchers are concerned. I always tell our guys, be, be attentive, be focused, Watch what happens. Watch swings. Whether that's your swings against your own team or the opposing team, how the ball's flying, what the weather's telling you. You won't know unless you try something, right? And so you're trying to understand, like, if a guy's bailing out, if he's out in front of a breaking ball, we're probably not gonna, you know, I would say bust him in. Watch again. Watch foul balls. What. What does the ground ball look like? Like, where their hands are at? So, you know, as far as that was concerned inside of our academy, because there are a lot of kids that don't get to call their games, which I think it's a travesty because it hurts development. And, and I think too, like, we, the Miami Marlins since last year, and I think even this year too, they're calling the pitches from the game. It's a big league team that hurts those catchers development. Right? Especially when it comes to trades. Like, oh, yeah, you got to relearn how to call a game. But I, you know, as far I, I just finished up this last tournament coaching travel ball. And what we would do is we would, we would call an inning, they would call an A, we'd call an ending. They call. And a lot of the conversation took place after the game. We try to. Maybe it was a little bit here and there, like, okay, why'd you call this pitch on this and, you know, this location, you know, and it wasn't always like, you called the wrong pitch. It was just. Just tell me why. Explain to me why. We had something like that in the fall when I was at UNO that I brought in with myself is we'd have the guy that was fetching would call the game and then the guys that weren't catching, they would have a kind of like a sheet on the side and they would call the game and they would. We would compare notes afterwards and just understand, like, hey, this is, this is a good call. Explains to me why again, goes back to the big question of why. So it's like trial and error. I think when I learned and how I learned the call games. I've watched baseball. That's how I, I did it. What we do in our academy is we would. I'd have a question of the day and it would be something around maybe pitch calling. Here's. Here's three hitters. Here's the situation. Here's the arsenal that the pitcher has this day. This is where he's at, how many pitches, this is how many pitches he's at. Or it's a fresh release or coming in. Here's the, the information that you have from before. Like this hitter went, you know, he's one for three on the day with two strikeouts. His two strikeouts were on breaking balls outside. The guy coming in doesn't have a very good breaking ball. How do you adjust to that? So again, it's a lot of trial and error. We try to do again, a lot of pitch calling practice. Although some of these kids won't get an opportunity to every caller their own game, which sucked. [00:48:43] Speaker A: How are you handling scheduling for your travel ball team in the summer? And then how are you handling arm management workload with your arms in the summer? [00:48:50] Speaker B: Well, yeah, luckily I'm. I'm just an assistant coach, so I don't have to do that. But PG does a good job, I think, of laying out the groundwork of that. And obviously it's, you know, we're making sure that our kids are actually throwing bullpen. So the facility that I'm actually sitting in right now is ran by a former AAA pitcher who is involved in our. In our organization kind of as our head pitching guy. And he is doing a really good. I. I've never seen somebody more organized than this person, which I'm. Who makes me feel like his name's Kyle Kubot. Kyle pitched. Actually pitched for the Charlotte Knights. Yeah, yeah. And Good. Good gentleman. [00:49:34] Speaker A: Yep. [00:49:35] Speaker B: And so Kyle does a great job of just managing pitchers arms and their workload and everything. He's very detailed, oriented. Like I said, I. It makes me look like I'm pretty lazy and unorganized, which I don't believe I am. But Kyle does a really good job. So it's just a lot of communication between us and our players. Like I said, PJ lays out the rules pretty good. Like the last tournament I was in, in Boston, we had a guy that threw 78 pitches on a Tuesday. We couldn't bring him back and we didn't want to bring him back. We had enough arms at that point to get through the tournament. Unfortunately, our tournament ended earlier than we expected, but we weren't going to bring him back. And it's like, man, we wish we could have brought him back. This is on a Saturday. He pitched on a. On a Tuesday. So that's where it's difficult, I think sometimes, but we do. [00:50:23] Speaker A: They're throwing side sessions, which I think is that the biggest piece of why we have arm issues now is they ramp up, then they don't throw enough in between starts, and then they're going at it again and they're not. I just. It's just the up down piece, I think is the biggest reason why. It's just. It's an education piece. Just some people don't know, like, they have no idea that the more they use the arm, the more they play cats, the more they long toss, the safer their arm's going to be. And. And yes, let's be reasonable on the amount of pitches that they throw. [00:50:56] Speaker B: I will say this too, Ryan. To that point, I'm not going to name a name and I'm not going to name the school, but we had a kid inside this facility who we had not seen from. So baseball here in Nebraska for spring generally starts March 1st in terms of their team practices, etc. We did not see him from since like mid February. He was committed to Division 1. And this school doesn't allow their players to play Senior Legion. They. They go play in, in a college league around town here. And this player, he great, great arm, good kid, didn't work at it, didn't really do anything other than that. And his belo went way down. And he was supposed to go play in a college league, wasn't getting any innings. The school asked him, hey, we want to see you pitch. He goes out there and he is five miles an hour left because of the work he did not do from that time frame. And so that to the point is like you got to always constantly doing something right. You're throwing, moving your body and you know, it's unfortunate for that young man. And now he's going to go somewhere else and play. But it's a lesson, I guess, more than anything. [00:52:10] Speaker A: And weight room, strength training, all that stuff matters, no doubt. If you want your velocity, if you want to maintain your velo in season out of season and make strength gains and velo gains, weight room's important. All that stuff's important because it's a 12 month calendar, like, and, and no doubt it's important to have people that know what they're doing to lay out the entire 12 month calendar for kids. [00:52:32] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. [00:52:34] Speaker A: How'd you get involved with six Tool? [00:52:39] Speaker B: Yeah, so it's a long story. I'll try to do my best to condense it a little bit here. So back in 2020, there's a, there's a Facebook group I'm involved with. It's this former minor league and MLB guys and people talking all this stuff. And there's this guy that, that, that started the group. He was the next pitcher, went to Northwestern, Fish at Northwestern, pitch a little professional baseball, went to indie ball, and then got picked up by the Royals and got up to aaa. But I was talking to a good friend of mine, Brian Watley, who's the Cleveland Guardians coordinator and catching coordinator, and we were just chatting. I was like, I really have this great idea for this, this catching app and I want to be able to take what. And it was take what Jerry Weinstein had done on paper and put it into an app and have another component of it where you could track timing. So if we're showing progression before, because not everybody could afford a thirty thousand dollar portable trackman or a hundred and some thousand dollar, you know, stadium track, man. And so I reached out to this guy named Chris Hayes and Chris is like, hey, I'm gonna send you on to another guy and this company I work with, and his name's John. And John was like, hey, what are your thoughts on. Oh. He goes, I can't really do it. I'm leaving this, this, this company. I'm like, all right. So my, my app idea is kind of dead in the water. John calls me, oh, probably a month or two later, he said, hey, I got this. We got this really good idea. It's called six Tool. And I said, okay, what? Tell me a little it. And he said, well, you know, everybody trains their five tools and the physical aspects of the game, but nobody trains their mental game, their, their situational awareness, their, their, you know, iq. And I said that you're absolutely right. People don't train that. And so kind of gave me a run through. And he goes, what are your thoughts on it? And we said, I think that would be huge for just facilities for coaches. I remember, I think it was Tim Corbin's when they won the national championship and it was 2020 Nashville and showed their classroom work and just kind of like the, the stadium and like this is it, this is it right here. This is this Would be so awesome for us to have something like that. We tried to do that. You and O. We didn't have a clubhouse. We didn't have a meeting room really, but I wanted to do something like that. But again, I'm making this long winded. But. But they asked me if I wanted to be involved with it and I said, yeah, absolutely. And we, we went through a transition where we had kind of an old. A group that was investing into the app and the company into a new group. And so they're like, hey, would you like to be kind of like the face of it? And I said, sure, absolutely. I'll do the content. I probably have written, I don't know, I. I think I'm pretty smart when it comes to it, but I probably have written over about 3,000 questions for our baseball I IQ app. So I feel like I know a lot about the games. I don't know if I really do, but yeah, it's Baseball IQ app. They again, just centralized around what different situations in the game. There's diagrams and there's videos in it, true and false questions. So it's, it's pretty neat. [00:55:57] Speaker A: I said it too. Like, your son watches, but he watches YouTube shorts and tick Tock's huge now. And that's, that's where kids are getting their information from now. But it doesn't really explain that the ins and outs of okay, this is where you need to be situation. And so they need, kids need help on that, you know, because they just don't get out and play as much now. You know, there's not a lot they don't play for kids anymore. So it's good that there's, there's a place for them to be able to learn. Like, okay, this is where you're, you should be in these situations. And coaches still talk about the John Scalinas, you know, aptitude, the baseball IQ test that Scalinas used to make those guys use in California that a lot of the California junior college teams still use. It's basically just taking that baseball IQ test and turning it into an app. [00:56:47] Speaker B: No doubt. No doubt. And you know, somebody going back to what you just said, a lot of kids aren't outside playing. You know, a lot of the good fields around here, they're always locked up. And we don't have the, we host the, the largest youth tournament, you know, along with the mecca of college baseball on an annual basis. And our fields here are not very good. We don't even have a complex to, to do that. But like A lot of the good field, they're locked up, so kids don't want to go out there and play on. On dirt field. And it's. And it's unfortunate and it stinks. But, like, if, if you had something like that in community, I think more kids are playing now. And, and plus the game's gotten extremely expensive. So, you know, John, John always jokes all the time. It's like, well, you could go get a 400 battery. You could spend, you know, X amount of dollars, like, which is a very short, you know, short amount of. Of money to, to pay for an app to get better at that IQ of the game. It was funny. So I was watching MLB Draft and Dan o' Dowd was talking. He was talking about the, the fifth pick, I think was Derek Cariel. And when he was talking about that, they're like, oh, you know, he, he's not, he's not good at this. And I can't believe they drafted him. And like, Dan's like, well, yeah, but they probably drafted him because of his aptitude. Yeah. And that's the sixth tool. And it was so funny. It's like, all right, we're, we're, we're. We're screen, you know, screen recording that and we're going to use that. But like, that's true. Like, a lot of that stuff is like, players out. They. Some players don't. Some players direct. Some teams draft on, you know, the one of two or three of the four, five tools or whatever it might be, but they don't. How, how quickly can this guy get submerged into a game? It's like, Connor Griffin, man, like, what? He's got to have ice, ice cold veins and, you know, and the dudes just got to be just so aware of what's happening around him. To play shortstop at the big league level at like, 19 years old, it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. [00:58:41] Speaker A: The good thing for you getting out of college coaching, though, is you can spend a lot more time with your kids. [00:58:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. I love it. You know, I was. I, I'm not gonna lie. Like, I was. Yeah, I was let go. It was, it was unfortunate. I enjoyed coaching college baseball that summer prior was coaching indie ball. I loved the. Being able to actually coach any ball. These kids, those guys were just there to be there. Right. You know, it's kind of like their last hurrah, in a sense. Now we had some guys that got picked up, but, like, like, I, I enjoyed when I was doing it. I loved planning, I love scouting. I love putting Together reports and doing defensive alignment stuff. I did a lot of different things. We go back to the analytics aspect of it. I love doing that stuff. But when I was pissed off for 48 hours, when I was kind of let go. But, like, I'm telling you what, everything [00:59:33] Speaker A: happens for a reason. [00:59:35] Speaker B: It does. [00:59:36] Speaker A: Everything happens. [00:59:36] Speaker B: It does. I, I, I love it. Ryan, you have. No, no, no doubt. Like, we just put a cage in our backyard. So on a nightly basis, you know, my kids are out there like, hey, let's go hit. Probably we use, luckily we, we just use, like, the Marvels or the Zan Barsdale, who's a friend of mine. We use his, his, like, rubber ball, so we're not doing any damage, and neighbors probably don't mind it too much. But we have, we have lights out there, so it's nice. We were just out there last night, so it's fun. It's fun. [01:00:07] Speaker A: Do you think any ball is the purest form of baseball we have now? [01:00:12] Speaker B: I would say yeah, I do, because [01:00:14] Speaker A: I did play, and I'm partial. I think it's that blend of years. You're still trying to win, and you've got to play the game the right way to win games. [01:00:24] Speaker B: You really do. There's not a whole lot of analytics that goes into it. Now. When I was at that, when I was coaching for Lincoln, the Salt Dogs and the American association, we did have somebody that was, we had, like, this higher form of Rap Soto and everything, and they were giving us, like, catcher reports, and the catchers didn't really want it, but, like, we were able just to have, like, generally conversations like, what do you feel, how you feel? And, you know, those guys would go back and pull their video. But, like, I, I do like it. It was cool to see, you know, again, I'm partial to it just for playing it for as long as I did. But, you know, guys, guys don't realize this. I know that it's changed. The pay rate has changed, but, like, I was making more money than some guys that I knew that were playing in Triple A. I mean, it was just, it was, it was what it was. I mean, the bus ride sucked, but, like, you're still playing some cool cities. I mean, Winnipeg was awesome. St. Paul at the time. You know, Bill Murray owned it, and somebody else, I think, was involved with it. [01:01:29] Speaker A: You know, Evansville outdraws a lot of minor league teams in the frontier. [01:01:33] Speaker B: That's it, too. [01:01:34] Speaker A: They pack it in, I mean, 5,500 in there, and they pack, they pack. [01:01:38] Speaker B: Boston Field out that's so much fun too. And like you can smell the, like the, the burgers cooking, the hot dogs, you know, cooking and, and the beer stains that are in there for 20 years ago, stuff like that. So I, I enjoy. [01:01:52] Speaker A: Do, do you have a fail forward moment? You have something you thought was going to set you back, but looking back now, it helped you move forward? Could be personal or professional. [01:02:08] Speaker B: I think, I think, I think the, the, the coaching. Well, every, every opportunity that I've interviewed for, when it came to coaching, I felt like I always got passed up by it. But it just, you know, I mean, I just kept moving forward. I'd ask the question, why? What did I do wrong? Am I overqualified? But I just, I wanted to stay again. I know this might sound cliche, but stay true to myself and who I am, confident in what I can do, in my ability to teach and coach. And when you get, when you get MLB coaches and you get, you know, and they're, they're not the ones to sit there and say, yeah, you're doing the right thing, but when you get the, you know, just the, the kind of like a notoriety for what you do and you know, you're doing something right. But I think I go back to my, my family are the ones that going to tell me if I'm doing something right or wrong and you know, all I care about is what they feel and if I'm doing the right thing by them. [01:03:16] Speaker A: It's really hard to get jobs. We're all good examples of how hard it is to get jobs in baseball. All of us, all of us that have been in for a long time, it's really hard to get jobs. A lot of it, 98% of it's out of your control if you get a job or not. 98% of it's out of control. And that's why you just have to continue to do the best that you can every day. And that's it. It, like my dad always said, you just got to be able to look yourself in the mirror in the mornings when you get up and you know if you're doing a good job or not. Like, you know, nobody has to tell you that. You know, personally, when you get up and look yourself in the mirror every morning, you know if you're doing a good job or not. [01:03:53] Speaker B: No doubt, no doubt. [01:03:55] Speaker A: You got any morning or evening routines? I know it's impossible with little kids to have any sort of routines. I always, I like one question, but then it always, it's a Caveat for people that have little kids because that's not possible to have any sort of set routine. [01:04:10] Speaker B: I try to walk. I try to walk probably about five, five miles or so a day. I'm a big coffee drinker, so my morning routine I guess would be like get up early enough to, to make at least two cups of coffee. I don't go any, I don't go fancy coffee. I mean, I go straight black coffee and then walk in my neighborhood. Whether that's rain or shine or snow or sleet or whatever it might be, I'm always walking through, you know, my neighborhood, try to get it five miles in before I get something going here. So that's kind of my routine, you know, as far as that's my morning routine, I would say. And it helps me think. I, I create a lot of clarity there. I love it. I'll sit there with my phone, I'll listen to podcasts, I listen to the ABCA podcast. Little plug for you, Ryan. And then I'll, you know, like I'll hear something like I always think about different things and that's the thing that I love about, you know, when I walk is like I'll take notes and oh, I like what so and so said. Or I liked, you know, this idea for a drill or maybe I can approach this some way and then it allows me to kind of formulate my own opinions and things like that. So that's kind of my routine. I should probably do some yoga because I'm inflexible and would need to be a little bit more, you know, mobile, especially with two little kids and, and being a catching coach, I always tell a joke, I always ask the kids [01:05:35] Speaker A: get a 10 minute routine when you get up. 10 minute routine before you go to bed. Like you don't need a lot people. I like, yeah, do do 10 cats and cows when you get up and 10 cats and cows before you. Oh yeah, go to bed. Like that's literally like might be all you need. Like that and getting child's pose for a little bit and breathe. [01:05:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that's plenty. I was, yeah, I, One of my, my nightly routines is after I got done with my night. You know, they always say like I, I did this, I guess backwards, but I would get in the cold tub after games and they say like heat is better than that. So I go sit my. I have like a portable sauna stuff that I sit in. But I haven't done that just because it's been crazy with our house and everything. But when kids Start back up in school here soon. I'll. I'll start my night. [01:06:21] Speaker A: What brand portable sauna do you have? [01:06:23] Speaker B: Have. Oh, the Neuro cover one. [01:06:26] Speaker A: Okay. [01:06:27] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, I think it's called Neuro cover. [01:06:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:29] Speaker B: I'm. I'm pretty sure I want to get a red light therapy one, but I've done it one time right now. [01:06:35] Speaker A: I've done it one time. I know people are. [01:06:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:38] Speaker A: Like it. I'm not great with sweating, so the red light therapy, the red light sauna was. It's intense because you can. You can crank that up. I've done the float tank, too. I would highly recommend the float tank tank. Steph Curry's got one in his house. It's the Epsom salt deprivation tank. I just tried. [01:06:55] Speaker B: Oh, there you go. [01:06:56] Speaker A: It's very cool. It feels like you're floating in outer space. [01:06:59] Speaker B: No, really? Really? [01:07:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it does. Like, close is. It's pitch black in there. So, like, I meditated for, like, 20, 30 minutes. Yeah, it's good. It's. It's hard, though, because it's like a Nerf hoop that your head sits in. So, like, everything is covered in this soft salt water except for, like, the tips of your face. So, like, that's the only thing you have to get comfortable with because you feel like you're gonna fall. [01:07:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:23] Speaker A: But once you get over that, it's cool. It does literally feel like you're floating in outer space, but you got to shower a lot afterwards because there's salt everywhere. Your ears like salt everywhere. [01:07:37] Speaker B: It's gross. [01:07:38] Speaker A: What has the city of Omaha meant to you? I say it. I have a love affair with that city. I've coached and played and a lot of games there, and I've been to a lot of World Series games now, but I have a love affair with the city of Omaha. [01:07:51] Speaker B: I, I, I. Yeah, I think it. Well, first off, it's home. It'll always be home. And for me, personally, like, it. It's what made me fall in love with the game. You know, as I said, I think earlier on that the CWS to us, I think the people here, it's not just an event. It's our professional baseball. It's our big league baseball. And it's really cool to see and to grow up with it. It's awesome. I'm trying to instill that, and my kids create those memories with them. But for me, it's home. And again, it created my love affair for baseball. [01:08:34] Speaker A: Is catching hot stove your favorite part of the ABCA convention? [01:08:40] Speaker B: Yeah. I would say so. I like the debates back and forth. I enjoy it. I think I sat on two. I did one. One of the virtual ones. I think I did the one in Chicago. Yep. And we had some really good questions and you know when you're sitting next to some guys that you respect and admire, like Tom Griffin was, was on the stage with me. I think Todd Cockburn, Charlie, Charlie Green Jr. Was on there as well as CNKO. And then when I did the virtual one, you know when, whenever you got Jerry Weinstein involved and then Mike Social I think was on that year too. I'm like, gosh, my. I like, I loved Mike Social as a manager. Like I felt bad that like I don't know if he was the type or if he, you know, was all in on analytics or not, but it's, I just loved Mike Social. I mean it's just kind of cool. It's really cool. [01:09:33] Speaker A: I, yeah, those, those two guys, I don't, they're, they, they can manage people. [01:09:40] Speaker B: No doubt, no doubt. You're managing egos. [01:09:43] Speaker A: Managing egos. To be able to do that. It's a very specialized skill to be able to manage those types of egos because if they're going to be good, they're going to have to have egos. Like, I don't, I don't care what it says. If you're going to be an elite in any industry, you're going to have some sort of an ego. Now hopefully it doesn't get out of control. But in order to excel at an elite level at, in any profession, you're going to have to have at least a little bit of ego. And yes, you got to manage it, but that's why those guys are so good that can manage at that level and do it at a high level because it's really difficult to do. [01:10:18] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. No, I know. Going back to the catching hot stove too. Like, I love the debate. I think for me personally, like I'm an observer, I'm trying to see what's happening around it and I think then, then that's when I make my strike or I pounce. So you know, I, I think a lot of people have just, you just have to be open minded with it. I think our positions change so much and people still want to debate me down catching. I know we haven't really talked about that but everyone wants to debate it and it's like, oh my gosh, you're, you know, you're doing something acrobatic. But in fact it's helped a Lot of people. And it's saved a lot of careers, I think too. [01:10:57] Speaker A: And the numbers don't lie like. And that's where our heads in the sand just because it's, it's unorthodox. But Benito Santiago caught with the knee down. You know, there were multiple in the old days that Pena caught with knee down and it was funky. But like there's been multiple examples of just. And again, that's a good example of making it work for the individual. And it has saved a lot of careers and it's turned awful receivers into good receivers or big league serviceable, at least. Big league serviceable, at least. So their back can play and stay in the lineup and they can at least receive like it's, it's, it's done way more good for the game in the last six, seven years than if we just stay traditional. It's done way more for the game in the last six. [01:11:44] Speaker B: You asked us back up to Cal Raleigh in Seattle. Yep. Mitch Garber. Yep. Mitch Garver was a silver slugger award. And, and Mitch would tell you straight up, he goes, it saved my career because I could hit and put me down. Now he might have still been in the negative, but he went from negative 20 to negative 2. Right. And. But it made them better. Same thing with like a Gary Sanchez and stuff. So I, I'm all for it. I will continue to preach it and I will continue to teach it. Yep. [01:12:17] Speaker A: Love it. Love it. What are some final thoughts before I let you go? [01:12:22] Speaker B: Just, you know, as far as a. A coach and concern or as, as a coach and as an instructor. Just be open minded. Understand who the athlete is, the personnel, build the relationship first before you start to make immediate changes. And you know, catching is the best position on the field. [01:12:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Have you seen any good movies lately? You said you're a movie guy. [01:12:51] Speaker B: Well, I like the Michael Jackson Biotic. [01:12:54] Speaker A: Did you watch it? I haven't seen it. It's been tick tock. [01:12:57] Speaker B: But I, I have. You know, I will tell you this. I. It kind of jumps around a little bit, but what I appreciated about it was his nephew getting the move. So like. Yeah, like, I mean just, it's. It's incredible. [01:13:16] Speaker A: It's right on. [01:13:19] Speaker B: Yeah. So I, I would say that movie and you know, I watch a lot of movies over and over again. I'm trying to think of what I watched last night. I try to fall asleep. Somebody. My wife hates it, but I try to fall asleep. The movie. No, I know, I know, I know. Turn the screens exactly yeah, yeah. No, it's bad. Oh, it's bad. Well, it's the scroll and then it's like, oh, yeah, I see that. Yeah, I gotta watch that movie again or I'm gonna fall asleep. This. Because I've seen 100 times. Yeah, I would. I think I watch. Oh, my. One of my favorite movies all the time. I can. I watch it a lot is. Is Rounders. [01:13:55] Speaker A: I love Rounders. He had a great podcast, by the way. Brian Koppelman wrote Rounders and he directed Billions. If you've ever watched Billions, it's a great show on Showtime. He wrote and directed Billions, but he had a great. He doesn't do it anymore, but his podcast was called the Moment. But he wrote Rounders. Brian Koppelman's really good. Did you watch the Bear at all? The TV show? The Bear? [01:14:18] Speaker B: I did not. [01:14:18] Speaker A: He's the computer and the Bear. For anybody that watched the Bear, Brian Koppelman is the computer. The. The computer and the bear. He's the guy that tries to fix the finances of the restaurant. That's Brian Koppelman. So he's in. [01:14:28] Speaker B: Okay. [01:14:29] Speaker A: In the Bear. The Bear's a great show. [01:14:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:30] Speaker A: Us that worked in restaurants, I think it's the truest. [01:14:34] Speaker B: I worked in a restaurant, I gotta [01:14:35] Speaker A: watch fiction of working in. What. What The. The chaos. The chaos and the hectic and the anxiety that you have working in a restaurant. Like a. Especially in the kitchen. So it's intense. Great period piece. Good, good. Good acting. Good writing. It's great. I'm sorry. That was done. [01:14:52] Speaker B: Phenomenal. [01:14:53] Speaker A: Great show. Great show. Yeah. I watch a lot of movies, a lot of. Read a lot. Music's more my thing, so. But good. Yeah, but, Tyler, thanks, man. [01:15:03] Speaker B: I listen to books. Yeah. Yeah, you got it. [01:15:05] Speaker A: I can't do it. [01:15:06] Speaker B: Thanks for having me. [01:15:07] Speaker A: I have to read. I can't. I know people like audiobooks. Podcasts are about the only thing I can do, audio wise. Because it's not like reading. [01:15:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:16] Speaker A: It just doesn't. Doesn't connect with me on the book side, so. [01:15:20] Speaker B: Understood. [01:15:21] Speaker A: Great job. Appreciate you. [01:15:23] Speaker B: So thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks for having me on. [01:15:27] Speaker A: Appreciate Tyler taking time to sit down with me. I've always enjoyed our conversations over the years. He's one of the great ones in the catching industry. Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale, Matt west in the ABC Office for all the help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via [email protected], twitter, Instagram or TikTok. Coach Babca or direct message me via the MyBC app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off with American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks and leave it better for those behind. World that way Yep Wait for another [01:16:09] Speaker B: day [01:16:13] Speaker A: and the world will always return as your life Never for yearning and [01:16:22] Speaker B: you know that way [01:16:27] Speaker A: wait for another [01:16:33] Speaker B: D.