Tony Vitello - ABCA/ATEC NCAA Div. I Coach of the Year

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the ABCA's podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Brownlee. New ABCA Podcast Sponsored Driveline or longtime friends and I've used many of their products when I was coaching in the youth camps. Now, if you want to truly optimize your pitcher's workload, Pulse from Driveline Baseball takes simple pitch counts to the next level. Pulse is a wearable sensor that precisely measures every throw your pitchers make on a daily basis. Pulse tracks both throw count and throw intensity. Trusted by MLB organizations like the Cincinnati Reds, elite college programs and individual athletes at all levels, Pulse is changing the way throwing workload is managed. With the Pulse Team Dashboard, you'll be able to make data driven usage decisions to optimize training and injury prevention for your entire team. Visit drivelinebaseball.com Pulse to revolutionize your pitching staff's development and health today. This episode is sponsored by Netting Pros. 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This week on the ABCA podcast is ABCA a Tech Division 1 coach of the Year? Tony Vitello Vitello led the volunteers to a 60 and 13 record, capturing the College World Series title in June. This is the Volunteers third College World Series appearance in four seasons. Vitello took over the Tennessee program in June of 2017, establishing Tennessee as one of the premier program's individual on baseball. Batello started his coaching career at Mizzou after finishing his playing career for the Tigers. Battello has also had stops at TCU and Arkansas, having success at every stop with 17 regional appearances in 20 seasons of coaching. Batello has a great track record of recruiting and development coaching MLB players including Ben Joyce, Garrett Crochet, Andrew Benintendi, Brandon Finnegan, Kyle Gibson, Aaron Crow, Ian Kinsler and Max Scherzer welcome Tony Vitello to the podcast. Here with Tony Vitello, head Coach at Tennessee, ABC ATEC Coach of the Year. Went 60 and 13, 22 and 8 in SEC National Champs, but third World Series appearance in four years. Mizzou alum, but spent time at Mizzou, TCU, Arkansas, and now 17 regional appearances as an assistant head coach. So, Tony, thanks. Congrats. [00:03:37] Speaker B: Thank you. I didn't know some of those things. Glad to hear it. I can tell. [00:03:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Hey, you've been in the postseason a lot. What kind of made this team different? It's so hard to win it. But what made this team different, Real balanced. [00:03:51] Speaker B: And I know that's kind of a vague and, you know, something that applies to all, all aspects of life, but with this team in particular, you could just see it in a bunch of different areas they kind of had. We didn't intend to have a certain brand name when we got here. We just wanted to compete right away. And there was kind of this brand name that was starting to formulate and each team is going to be a little different. But there has been some consistencies of our team and they had those. But they also kind of had their own unique setup. And it was a team that was very close, very mature and yet had an edge to them as well. And it's just unique. And then you break it down by individual and you can see why it was a balanced team. You got a kid like Dylan Dryling that doesn't. Isn't real emotional but is incredibly intense. Just a real good balance. There a lot of different ways with him. And I could go all down the roster. [00:04:45] Speaker A: I mean, how has the evolution been of the program? You've been there since 2018 and you said maturity and that's what I noticed about watching you guys play this year. Just seemed like you guys handle the environment not better, but it just seemed like a more mature approach to handling those types of environments. [00:05:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I think they kind of acclimated themselves with the ups and downs of the postseason. And the postseason is different than the regular season and just a lot of little nuances. And when you travel, when you don't where you go, what you do with your free time, media and that they've learned to handle it better. And it's no coincidence. You know, Simo and Burke were probably two of our biggest leaders. Ensley, Cal, Stark, those guys that had been through a lot of battles prior to this year. And some programs have an immense tradition that's gone on for Years and years and years. And they know exactly what a regional looks like, a super regional. And this group, not only when we first got here, didn't know, but they didn't even know what it took to get there. So there was a little bit of a process in. In learning that, and more now than ever, my hat's off to, you know, Coach Gilmore was incredible over at Coastal. A group like that going and doing something for the first time and then another thing for the first time and then another thing for the first time and doing it so well. So that is possible. But probably what's more sequential is kind of learning something, learning a little bit more, learn a little bit more, and then we label that experience. [00:06:15] Speaker A: Is that part of the reason why you took the Tennessee job, though? Because the history was there. They had had success in the past. Is that part of the reason why you took the job? [00:06:24] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, the deep down honest answer is I would have taken any head coaching job anyone would have given me, probably from about age 28 on. And I loved my time with Coach J at Missouri and was even texting with some former players there this morning. But also, there was a formula here. I do think Knoxville is an incredible place. It's a city, but I call it a town because it plays like a college town. And then it's a flagship school of the state, which is a great state and has a loyal alum and fan base. So when we first kind of looked at it was like, we got to at least be good. And, of course, everyone wants a little bit better than good or wants to be great, so you got to hustle a little bit. But, yeah, the ingredients were there. And the one thing that was unique is with Arkansas, we came here and played, and we only played two games because of rain, and Coach Serrano's group was really young, and there was the rumors it was the end of the year. You know how baseball is. It's a sewing circle. And at some point during one of those rain delays, we said, if there's a change, whoever gets this job is going to inherit some really good young players. And never would have thought it would have been me, but that was the case when the baton was handed off. I think he had done a lot of work here to get this place back to neutral at the very least, for brevity's sake. I'll just say it like that. And again, we inherited some nice young pieces, but we. We definitely had to educate some. Some, you know, the guys on some things. As far as winning goes. [00:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah. If you had to go back and do it all over again when you first got there, would you change anything? [00:08:01] Speaker B: No, because we got Garrett Crochet. We were. We were one to win right away. And everybody knows Frank. He's so competitive. He can get as honorary as anybody on game day. Away from the field, he's. He's one of the best, most well rounded individuals I've ever been around, but. [00:08:19] Speaker A: We just kind of wanted a partner on the treadmill, by the way, he's always down there. [00:08:25] Speaker B: So, yeah, kudos to you for getting up as early as he does. I. If I can mix in the workout, it's usually at the very end of the day. And he's the opposite. He's, you know, he's our most experienced. I can't say he's our oldest coach, but when people, you know, we won, for some reason, people thought he was going to pull a John Elway and retire or whatever, but he, he lives and dies with these relationships he has, in particular with the pitchers, but also the other players. And he's our most dedicated or disciplined workout and nutrition guy we have on staff. So it's one of the reasons some of us are trying to keep up with him instead of vice versa. But he was the first hire, and we wanted to win right away. And in doing so, we had some people help us. And Frank put in a lot of work in getting a kid like Garrett Crochet, and without him, that first year would have been even uglier. But, no, I don't know that we would do anything different because, you know, it's. It's got us to a point where at least we're all, you know, at peace with what's going on with the stadium, what's going on with recruiting. It's kind of cool to see that build up each year a little bit better and learning more lessons. There's definitely probably a lot of little things that we could have done better or handled better or not done. But it's our story. And something I'm trying to learn as a person for peace of mind is I'm bad with regrets. And so at the very least, with this answer, as far as our program goes, no regrets. Just chalk it up to what our story is. And if somebody ever wants to write about it or do a Netflix special about it, there'll probably be some embarrassing moments, but for now, we'll just act like they didn't happen. [00:10:08] Speaker A: And I was at your super against lsu, and then I was there, obviously, with Evansville being an Alum. And that was the thing that stuck out with me because the environment against LSU was great, but I thought the environment against Evansville was just electric. And honestly, I thought your crowd willed you guys to win on that last day. [00:10:25] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, it was almost like, we've seen this. We know what it looks like, we know what needs to be done and we're going to do it. And to peel the curtain back a little bit with our, our guys in the locker room, there was a sense of peace for what could have been. You don't want to call it a disaster because that Evansville team was so good, but the way of the world today is Twitter. And people would have called it a disaster because at the time they were the lowest ranked team. We were the highest. But this is baseball and what a fun team. And it's so weird. I think I am getting a little more mature because to be in a series that competitive and to acknowledge, you know, back in the coaches locker room, we're talking or up here in the office, and to acknowledge what they got going on, but at the same time beat each other's throats when the game starts is. It's, that's a balance in itself, but, you know, and then the other one that you saw was Coach Monary. We thought it was going to be a swan song, but he got the itch again and came back. That was the makings of what was a national championship team. Kind of like maybe us losing in a super or making our way to Omaha in 23. That was the makings of a team that was able to go on and win. So it's interesting how one year affects the next, even though each year is so different and each roster is so different. [00:11:50] Speaker A: Do you learn more from successful seasons or unsuccessful seasons? [00:11:55] Speaker B: That's a, that's a tough question. And I, I think there's, there's a little bit of both. I mean, do you want the salt or pepper when you're cooking? And, and I don't know what I'm doing in the kitchen, but my dad, I think, uses both. There's probably depending on the, you know, what you're making. If, if I'm going to go too far with this analogy, there's a little more of one or the other. And I think, I think if you get beat up too much, it can harm you. And for whatever reason, it just wasn't clicking with the group here before we got here. And it was interesting. Those kids were beaten down and there were some really good kids and there was A lot of talent. And so when I go back to what I was answering earlier, I don't make it mean to make it sound like we're the wizards of college baseball or anything, but we just had to educate the guys on what winning looks like and what it takes to win in the league because I had the good fortune of being with Coach Van Horn at Arkansas and that self belief is so, so important. And then to belabor the Evansville thing, yeah, they had a guy that could really spin it and they had a couple guys that can run. But the self belief was incredible. [00:13:03] Speaker A: And just in themselves, it was a mature group. And I'm biased. Yeah, they were older and coached there. But I did say if they didn't have to match up with you guys in the super and maybe got sent somewhere else, there's a chance they may go to Omaha. [00:13:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that was one where that's why you play the way you do all year long, is to be at home. Because if that was a neutral site or were there, there's a decent chance it's a different story. And as you mentioned, our crowd was a factor. And it's amazing of all the cheers I've ever heard in this stadium, all the things that have gone on, Drew Gilbert's grand slam was great. But now we can pack more fans in here so it's louder. Taking Kirby out of the game was the loudest cheer I've ever heard. And it's amazing how our fan base is kind of connected with our guys, almost kind of like a family or community deal. And he epitomizes that. So they certainly, from start to finish, even when, you know, the win was, you know, on the scoreboard, it looked like it was going to happen. And we take Kirby out, they were electric. [00:14:06] Speaker A: And that's credit to you because that lsu, there was probably more people outside the stadium watching that big screen against lsu. And now you've added the seats in this, in the outfield and it's created such a good environment there. Tremendous environment. [00:14:21] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, so we almost. We thought of Yawkey Way. If you've been to Red Sox game, I think theirs is on the first baseline. You got to have a ticket to get on the street. And we didn't have enough seats and people are going crazy. So we came up with that idea to put two jumbotrons. And now from that idea, Danny White saw how that worked. Our athletic director, that street is just going to become a plaza. And of course, football's construction and our construction are kind of Bleeding into it as well. So, again, really fun to see how one year has affected the next in so many different ways on this campus. And, you know, blessed to be sitting here. [00:14:58] Speaker A: Now, you've been around some of our most successful head coaches as an assistant. How do you know which jobs to take, who to align yourself with? Because I think that's there's some art and some magic to your career path on who you align yourself with. [00:15:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And a lot of it is out of your control. Just like, you know, a lot of coaches obviously played and the best players end up realizing, I don't have control of the strike zone technically and what the weather is like. And it is a little frustrating for me in this seat to have conversations with kids who want to be coaches because they look at, you know, I've been close with them. So they look at my resume, and mine was kind of a freak occurrence how it all went down. And so again, you don't have control over a lot of things, but if you are ambitious and you want to do it for the right reasons, you can find a lot of love in doing this job. And I've just been spoiled because I went, you know, and begged Coach Jameson to allow me to coach. And he said, I'm not going to let you coach the guys you just got done playing with and maybe going to some social gatherings with. And I begged again and he said no. And finally I wrote a real heartfelt letter and he caved. And we didn't. He was choosing no volunteer coach over adding me. And then finally cave. Thank goodness. And it just went well. And Sean McCann, who really turned around Missouri's programmer or was a catalyst, leaves after one year and goes to K State. At the time, I hated him for it because we were close and are still very close. But then I end up getting the job. You know, Coach Jameson gives me a chance and I literally. I remember being in Lincoln when some big tournaments were tied into Omaha like they are for little league kids. And I kind of had my shoulder slunched over because I could see all these people looking at me that either knew I didn't deserve the job I had or wanted the job that I got, but because of my proximity with the program, it just worked out. But after a given amount of time, it just had a sense it was time to do something different. And I'm all for loyalty. I love that George Brett only played for the Royals and things like that, but my dad only worked at one school. But it was all I knew and it was time to branch out and end up at TCU and learned a lot there. And you're now you're at a private school instead of a public school. And because you're at a southern school in the heart of Texas, we were able to beat out Arkansas, one of the best programs in the country, for a few pitchers, and they took note. And, you know, I knew who Coach Van Horn was. I literally studied him and Augie and some of the others. Rob Childress from the dugout when I was sitting my butt on the bench, not playing in the game, and, you know, they gave me a chance. And without being in the sec, I never would have had the opportunity here. A big part of their criteria was knowing the league. So the dominoes fall in a lot of different ways for everyone. And I do understand guys get frustrated. We just made a couple hires this summer, and I know for a fact it's a funny story off air, how some people weren't happy with those hires or said, well, I'm better than that guy or this guy. And it's. It's one of those things where there is no justice in coaching, and a lot of times there's things that don't make sense. So, again, I think it's important for the younger guys starting to preach, but do it for the right reason and understand there's only so much in their control. So just get wrapped up in what their passion is and let the chips fall where they may, as they say. [00:18:28] Speaker A: You've also worked your tail off, too, though, and I think those of us that have been around you on the recruiting scene know how hard you work, and so, like, you've created a lot of that luck for yourself, too. [00:18:38] Speaker B: I appreciate that. And you did, too. I mean, because we were side by side way too often, and it's. It's kind of what you got to do is you got to sacrifice some things. And, you know, I guess there's no way to say it without patting yourself on the back, but some people see, you know, what's on Twitter or what, you know, you've been able to win some games or you get a salary and stuff like that, but I don't think they've seen some of the sacrifices that are made behind the scenes, not just by me, but by other coaches. And I've always said it, and, hey, on game day, I'm enemies with whoever's across the dugout, but when we're in street clothes, I'm every day amazed that you can do this and have a family. I just don't know how you do it, and maybe one day I'll figure out how to do it. But it takes a lot of sacrifice and again, honored to be, you know, in the spot that I'm in now. [00:19:31] Speaker A: Does Coach Jameson get enough credit for what he did at Mizzou? [00:19:35] Speaker B: Absolutely not. And it's because his personality is not one to take credit for anything. He's not going to be big on social media. You know, it's. It's just it here, here's the best way to say it is when I would recruit players, I would tell them, listen if they would commit or they were on campus. When you get to our program, you need to go seek out knowledge from Coach Jameson. He's got as much of it as anybody, but it just by his nature, you need to go seek it out from him. And that's not like he's not coaching. You know, every day in practice. He showed that with their pitching staff this year, they were tremendous, and it was their first year, so there were some, you know, trials and tribulations there. But we took note of how good a job he did with those pitchers. And he's just not Lane Kiffin, you know, so because of that, especially in this day and age, it's. It's undervalued. And not only is he one of the best people in the game, he's. He's probably too good of a person because take this with a grain of salt, but I sit behind closed doors a lot. You kind of got to be a scoundrel in college baseball more than any sport because of this 11.7 deal. And his integrity is through the roof. And I'm not so sure it hasn't cost him at times, but what always shows up for him as he handles people or treats people the right way, and he dang sure can coach. [00:21:03] Speaker A: If you had one college game to win. Aaron Crow, Max Scherzer, or Kyle Gibson. [00:21:11] Speaker B: That is tough. I would want Max Scherzer in the dugout coaching because he's so smart. I would want Aaron Crow starting, and I would want Kyle Gibson to close it out and throw that slider, and I think we'd be okay. But you, you could choose any of the three, and it would depend on the year. You know, what was so cool is that they all liked each other, but they all didn't like each other. And I think Max is what started that. And I think Max has been on some big league pitching staffs like that, too, where he would love and go to battle with and die for or Bail out of jail, this other guy or that other guy on the pitching staff. But Max will be damn if he's not going to be the best. And those other guys kind of had that quality too. And it's fun building that environment. And it's funny you bring that up because now started to get preachy. But recruiting is really get steering towards you're the only guy and nothing will interfere with that. And the kids kind of crave that a little bit, I think more because of the environment than who they are or how they were brought up. And really what makes the kids better is competition when they're around a group of. You know, our football team is so good on offense. I don't know who the best wide receiver is. I just know we got a lot of good ones and they're probably every day competing with, but also working with each other to see who can become the best. [00:22:37] Speaker A: We lost Kyle Gibson and Michael Walker in that, that year. And that broke my heart because I'm like, that's a Big Ten championship and we're going to do things we've never done before. We worked our tail off on both those guys. But good for you because it. Kyle was one of my favorites and no, he was. And an Indiana kid like that, that was the biggest thing. Yeah, he's an Indiana kid, a Midwest kid. [00:22:59] Speaker B: And hey, I did it legally. The first time I ever spoke with. [00:23:03] Speaker A: Harold, he went to img. I was like, we got a chance. He was like 83, 84 his sophomore year. And then he goes to IMG and he comes back, he's at a D deal in illinois and he's 89 and 93. And I'm like, oh, man, we got some work to do. [00:23:18] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I hear you. I got another comment off air about that game in particular where he's throwing. But the tournament ends and the next day I hook up with his dad and Kyle and his dad pulls out a map. Literally had it on him. And I told him where I was from, University of Missouri. And they had a kind of radius circled on the map from their home. And he was only going to go so far. And I'm sure you kind of sniff that out and why it was, you know, going to be a Midwestern school that he was going to go to. And it's interesting, all these kids have different criteria, but I think the main thing is have criteria. It makes the decision easy on you. And Kyle at that time got good enough. He could have gone anywhere in the country. But they did have a criteria. That was set for them. And it's funny, one of the best practices I've ever been a part of was when Kyle visited a second time. And it was because Harold, his father, was coming with him. And we knew Harold's. His standards were through the roof. So we went over that practice schedule like two or three extra times to make sure there was no hiccups in there. And again, a lot of these guys that you and I have coached that that exceed expectations or just great ones to be around, all you gotta do is look at the household. And most of them came from either a great one or maybe one that wasn't great and helped shape them to who they were. [00:24:44] Speaker A: I think you've done a tremendous job of hanging the spotlight over the years. I mean, how has that evolved for you? Because I texted you during the postseason. I thought some of your post game speeches were some of the best I'd seen. [00:24:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know how it's worked out. It's really weird because I was so unconfident. I didn't have confidence as a player. I wish I would have let the hard work pay off for me. There. There was a sign in Dismet's. You know, my high school where my dad worked in the weight room, it said, sooner or later, a hard worker will succeed. And it was not my weight room. But there were so many days I wanted to rip that sign off the wall, and I never did because I was like, well, when, when, when, when? And the answer was right underneath my nose. It was when you let it. And I wouldn't let it until the very end when a little bit of mental clarity and kind of that mental game is so important, you know, came to me. So that's kind of why I'm passionate about the mental game. And part of that is teaching kids to believe in themselves. And so you got to practice what you preach. And I think on the coaching side, because I've been around those head coaches I've been around, there's been a little bit of a winning lineage there for me to fall back on. And I think I was like that as a player. Unfortunately, it was a little bit of result based confidence and that's helped build me up a little bit. And then when I got here, there's this weird thing that went on. The media is so big here, there's so many members, so there's a constant interaction. And like anything, you know, as a boxer, you need to spar. You get reps, you accumulate reps, so you get better And I don't know that I've gotten better at it, but there's been this, you know, relationship between I and them where it's a little more authentic. And I feel like we had nothing to lose at the beginning because we weren't very good, and I just kind of would spout off stuff. And so whatever path I've kind of selected to go with them, it's. It's kind of continued on. And I don't know, at the end of the day, I guess I don't want to be phony in recruiting or in talking to the media or in talking to the team. And so just try and be myself, which sometimes it ain't so great, but other times, I do think people appreciate that you're. [00:26:57] Speaker A: I like the candor. [00:26:58] Speaker B: Say what you think. [00:26:58] Speaker A: I like the candidate. I appreciate it, I think. And not that it's unfiltered, I think you're extremely intelligent with how you come across. I just like the fact that you are your authentic self. And like, what. What parts. Your dad. I saw your dad coach in high school when I went down there to watch Brian Nabolski. I've seen your dad coach. Like, I know that side of him, and I think there's certain parts of you, but I think you're your own person, too. Like, when did you figure out, like, hey, I'm not my dad. I had to go through the same thing. Like, hey, I'm not my dad. I'm not my brother. I have my own personality. When did you figure that piece out? [00:27:31] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, Brian's going to be a superstar coach, by the way, Nudolsky. But I think sitting there on all those benches because he coached a bunch of different sports, and then he also helped a lot of the other sports, whether it be announcing it football or timekeeping at basketball. So I'm sitting there watching all these teams, and you're taking a little bit of each coach. You know, it's like, if you, you know, perfect a player, you know, you want Jim Tomy hitting homers and Jeter's defense and leadership or whatever, you're kind of taking a little bit of each and formulating what would be a monster coach or the best version of what you would be as a coach. And then the other thing is, the guy I'm closest to, you'd think I would be most similar to him. But the one thing I saw was just an extreme sense of discipline and call it old school if you want. And I also sat next to those players. He was Disciplining. And so I felt bad for those guys, I won't lie. And so I think it helped me see things from the player's perspective, but also his perspective. And then the assistants kind of had their own role. And so it was just this big pot of gumbo, you know, that I kind of tried to put together for myself. [00:28:47] Speaker A: When's the last time you had Italian food on the hill in St. Louis? [00:28:52] Speaker B: Oh, I bet it's been since last winter. We're usually there around Christmas time and Thanksgiving we usually do in Kansas City with my stow around last winter. And if I don't get my fix every now and then, then we'll find a guy on PBR. Perfect game. Hey, this guy hit 85 or whatever. I need to go to St. Louis to watch him. And then, and then we'll get my fix. And you know, the Hill is unreal. But now my dad has got a lot of former players out there that have their own restaurants and they're sprinkled amongst St. Louis too. And we get to go in and, you know, he acts like or kind of looks like he's in the mafia because all the, you know, the owner knows them and all that stuff. And we get good treatment and of course I get a good meal. [00:29:34] Speaker A: Well, Evansville and St. Louis used to be in the same conference, so we'd go over there and watch Evansville play basketball against St. Louis. So we always went to the Hill first and then slew their basketball arena. You had to get in an elevator and go down in the basement to watch their basketball team play. So that was always fun for me as a kid growing up is go to St. Louis because Evansville is obviously not a big city, but St. Louis is. So those are some of my best memories growing up is going to the Hill for sure. [00:29:59] Speaker B: No, it's not a big city, but it's a unique city. I've had a couple buddies go there. One played soccer and another played baseball. And the college towns are fun when they got their own flavor, but you're usually not going to get really good Italian food in a, in a remote city somewhere off the beaten path. [00:30:17] Speaker A: How much of the pitch comp stuff are you using, if that. If anything? [00:30:21] Speaker B: Yeah, so, you know, last year it was interesting. A lot of the catchers were allowed to kind of, you know, put the deal on their knee. And we're in the middle of. I can't remember if it was the suit. It was the Evansville. It was Evansville the first day. Hey, much respect to Them as you know, but the first game we lost was the first. The Saturday was the day we weren't allowed to use it and we found out right before the game. And you know, I think Frank's argument was, hey, this is a tool that's to educate the kids on how to know the game and communicate. You know, the infielders need to know if a change up's coming. I need to be anticipating first step, this way, that way. So at the end of the day, I would say we've really blended what we've done. Whether it's Frank just going old school signals or we allow the catcher to call the game. The pitchcom, you know, has been certainly a part of it. With Frank communicating with the catcher. I think he's really enjoyed using the microphone and earpiece just on communicating some things to the catcher, like, hey, tell this guy to slow down, you know, or if he does take a visit, which, you know, now that that deal's different, you take a visit, we're not going to use one. And this is what you need to say. So it's really been a hodgepodge and I know it's not the intent of your question, but Frank doesn't have a secret sauce. Frank kind of uses a hodgepodge just like the Pitch. Com. It's a little bit of this, a little bit of that. And it's also based on what he thinks can work for that individual one. [00:31:51] Speaker A: I'm thinking about too, a young pitching coach that's gotten used to using this thing. And then you're get, you get told that, hey, you can't use it. It's like, okay, what do we do now? We haven't really practiced any of the other stuff. And that's where a veteran coach can kind of hedge that piece for you. [00:32:04] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like in college you got the PowerPoint presentation. You dang sure better have the pieces with four slides on each sheet for the back. I do think there's a disconnect and I'll have to One more thing off air. I am so nervous about speaking. I never thought I'd ever speak at the ABCA convention and you know, I need a haircut and everything else. So I don't know how many people want to hear from my butt. But I think one thing I want to touch on is there is a disconnect between the veteran coaches. Just because they're more experienced doesn't mean they're old school or set in their ways and the newer age coaches. And it's not Just with technology, although that's a part of it, there's other aspects too. And I think, you know, the way a guy like Frank or Rob Childress has gone out of his way to educate himself on what's kind of new age, I don't know that there's that same, you know, kind of tilt the other way from the younger guys of let me dive into what the history of this thing is and really know why Augie Garrido was a great coach or what Ken Reviz's impact was on college baseball, what his record was. When that dude was sitting in the other team's dugout, which I did not like, I assume that was compliant. But that didn't go very well for me. So that might be something I might, you know, throw out there during that deal that hopefully is interesting, the technology. [00:33:31] Speaker A: Coming to the offensive side, is that going to be a good thing too? [00:33:34] Speaker B: I don't know because I don't know what I'm allowed to share. But again, transparency. We do this SEC head coaches meeting and it's a hot topic because our stadiums are very advanced. Our conference usually is a leader in the country over technology just because of resources. And is it being used to an advantage that might be unfair is a question. And we didn't involve that at all. And not that there were any better or worse than anybody because you got to kind of go with what you think your theme is. But man, our theme has been our weight room is our strength coach has been incredible. And coach, he does a good job at third. But, you know, I don't know, I think I. Before that being left out of the offensive part, I guess I think people have been able to hear messages in their ear and things like that. And I don't know, I like it simple. I think people would be shocked at how much I'm for going back to the old way we did it where you hit a double and you just stand on second base. You don't someone throw you a hula hoop and you do six times around real quick and then throw it back to him. [00:34:43] Speaker A: When did Quentin join the program, your strength coach? [00:34:46] Speaker B: So it's funny. Again, I'll go full disclosure. [00:34:50] Speaker A: He's a big dude, by the way. I mean, he's a physical dude. [00:34:54] Speaker B: He's physical. And the cool thing is he looks like a former football guy or tall enough to be a basketball player, but he played baseball and was a two way guy. So he really has unique perspective on not only our sport, but also the different levels he's Been at the major league, minor league, and now college. And I knew I never would have stepped foot on the field without a strength coach like Scott Bird or just working at it. Jesse Swift was a guy that helped me with speed. And it's such a huge part of the program when it comes to culture, too, which is a word that's been thrown a lot around, a lot around here. So we took our time to the point where administration got angry with me because we got hired, let's call it July 1st, and it's August and we still don't have anybody. And we kept interviewing people and at one point, Quinton was our favorite until Frank saw a picture of Quinton with a hat on and he didn't like the way he was wearing his baseball cap and said, man, I don't know about this. So it's funny, that delayed it about another week. But we came to our senses and he joined the program. But really not until the winner of our first year. And I think that maybe detracted from our first year team a little bit because he is so impactful. But really the first semester was just a getting acclimated with Knoxville and college baseball and some of the rules. But ever since then, it's taken off for us. And if you look at the NCAA rules, that guy is able to spend more time with our players than we are. Finals week, you know, summer, you name it. And my goodness, we've taken advantage of it because of him. [00:36:31] Speaker A: And you got Jeff Wood, too, like another old timer. Like, that's what I love about your staff because you have, you have some really good young, up and coming coaches, but then you've got some older veteran guys that have been through the wars. [00:36:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I've been through a few mini panic, panic attacks this summer, which are wild, like flashbacks to Omaha this year. But I literally had one. The other day is when Woody retires, if he ever decides to. Well, first of all, I'm going to bring my checkbook or my key car keys or some extra gear or whatever and throw it at him. But if his time is ever done here, I don't know how you replace that guy because he's accumulated so many years and again, pro ball and college, he's been around a ton of first rounders. And when kids go on visits as a pitcher in particular, I think they want to know where's the pitching lab or the thing that you call the pitching lab. And they don't take the time to who's my academic coordinator? Because pitchers are very regimented. Who's the strength coach and who's the trainer? Those three people you spend more time around than even the pitching coach, and they're so instrumental in your life. And again, those routines, I mean, if you're a Friday starter, every day is mapped out for you and it needs to go well. So, yeah, pretty. Pretty cool. Those three people, I don't know how we replace them. And our fans are crazy, so I get more credit or they paint this picture like I've done something to help us win. And it's really those people behind the scenes. So I guess I get the credit when I'm in Knoxville. But we go to other SEC towns and they're not yelling at Q as much as they're yelling at me. They don't have. They probably don't have the muscles to be yelling at Q, but I guess it works both ways. Now that I say it out loud. [00:38:16] Speaker A: Where is Christian Moore on your list of development as a hitter in college? [00:38:22] Speaker B: I think development as a person, more than anything, just to mature. And we did think he would sign for a few different reasons, but it's so good that he did not, and he probably didn't because or get offered the money. That was his bar that was set because people knew he needed to mature, and he came in and did it mentally and physically in so many different ways. And then another area that's underrated is he was a shortstop pitcher. When we committed him, the pitching went away and the defense was not SEC level. It just was poor freshman year, to be honest with you, at the very beginning. And it got good to where he'd play out there. But that's an area, too, that I know you didn't ask about, but I got to mention it because he worked so hard at it. And I think when you are bigger and stronger and you're confident in your defense and, you know, you don't have to be the DH or a pinch hitter. It bleeds into hitting. So while he did develop as a hitter, I think a lot of other aspects helped it. And he's so cerebral. Probably Scherzer and Kinzler are the only other two guys that I could compare to him with the cognitive skills. And I think he took the test and he rated high, but that doesn't always, you know, ask C.J. stroud. I think he dang near flunked the thing and. And is killing it. So it doesn't tell the whole story, but just cognitively, really gifted. So Coach Elander helped him in the cage, but I think he could he could do things on a different level to, to have that development as a hitter. [00:39:55] Speaker A: And I think defensively, you can get some things cleaned up too. Like, I think what he, even now, what he is, and I think where he's going to be when he plays in the big leagues. Like, I think you're going to see a different sor. A defender too. [00:40:06] Speaker B: He's going to be around Ron Washington. So if he can't get him right on the infield, then, then I, I guess we'll watch SEO run around in the outfield. But he's very determined at it. And it's, it's, it's an interesting deal because again, he's so smart. He knows what he needs, what he can get away with, what he needs to do. And it's, it's almost like he's a great puzzle solver. And I, I don't know who the best players at top 10 who I've coached. You know, I wiggled out of you trying to say which of those three pitchers is better. So I don't know where he stacks up, but I don't know that I've ever seen anyone be able to take over a game when they really want to. And, you know, it's, it's impossible to replace that guy. [00:40:50] Speaker A: And then with Drew Bream, I mean, did you know, did you know that he was going to do that when you recruited him? Just from a, from a standpoint of who he was as a person? [00:41:00] Speaker B: Again, to tie in Aaron Crowe. Those guys were both sturdy, durable bodies, athletic enough to play another sport. Aaron could have been a good basketball player. Drew was a good football player, kind of tall, the big frame. All these things that make you say on the phone, I think you could be a starting pitcher at some point. And behind closed doors, we both thought. I think I even said to Aaron Crow, we think you could be a starter as a junior in the Big 12. And both those guys were starters as freshmen. So regardless what got said to them, good or bad, in recruiting, they were going to kind of pave their own way. And Drew did it with just incredible presence, and Aaron did it with insane, literally insane intensity. So they both kind of had their own unique thing. But I think with Drew, he had Covid, and he also had rehab, and he sped through rehab so fast. He looked like a veteran pitcher even as a freshman, despite missing all this time in high school. And I think a lot of that is based on his family. He's got some circumstances. He takes good care of his sister. And I think he's by nature. [00:42:14] Speaker A: Carly's a great story. [00:42:16] Speaker B: Yeah, it really is. And I think they help each other, but I think just his whole deal has been built on how mature he is. And if you look back, we talked about our team being mature and he is one of, if not our biggest team leader. So again, you can find the ingredients that are a part of that bigger recipe. And man, I got to eat breakfast this morning. Talking about food a lot, but yeah, you just, you just saw a lot of stability there, which meant long term success or a high percentage of success. [00:42:48] Speaker A: And I think he stays healthy too, with just everything he's got going on. I thought. [00:42:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:52] Speaker A: You want to talk about Savage for East Carolina? Were the two best guys I saw all spring. [00:42:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we were. There was a couple pitchers over there in that regional that were just insanely good. And Savage was a guy that we were very fortunate to miss. Facing that guy, not just because of his stuff, but just his overall. [00:43:14] Speaker A: His overall competitiveness is the biggest thing about. [00:43:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And what he's been through as far as adversity goes and health and all that. So kudos to those guys. And you know, again, I guess to put a little teaching spin on it, kids watch these guys in Omaha or now all these regionals and super regionals are covered and they see the finished product, but they don't see what was going on behind the scenes. And both those kids had some dark days for different reasons, and I think it made them stronger. [00:43:43] Speaker A: Is Ben Joyce going to throw 110? [00:43:46] Speaker B: I don't know. What? I wouldn't say he can't do. I would not put a limit on him or say can't about anything he can't do. And here's that. That's another one. Here's what I wish again, complete honesty. Phone conversations I had with people. When he went to the ML combine and started having conversations with people and more importantly, did his blood work, people had questions, how is he throwing this hard? And when people found out it's because of genetics and hard work, his stock went through the roof. And I think he signs for a million dollars or goes higher than we all expected because he was in puppy stage as a thrower and a pitcher when he first got here and advanced a little bit with Frank and Q and mainly himself. I mean, after games, just his routine with the arm care, it was insane. How long? Like, I would do the media, I would shower, I would do the lap around the stadium. Like, is anything out of place? I'd go up to the Office, grab my stuff, maybe even look at hey, who's pitching tomorrow? And then I'd come down to go to my car and he was still being there and that's just the extra body care stuff he was doing. He's literally turned his body into a machine and the mind was not, but it was inching towards that and now I think we're there. And it's one of the reasons they brought him up and then put him down and then brought him back up again was to clean up just some of the little things he had to do. But more importantly, get him right for this run that he's going to go on for the rest of his career. And I think he's literally becoming an international superstar. [00:45:21] Speaker A: He's got some Trevor Bauer to him with that, with the extra stuff that and the work that he puts in away from it. [00:45:28] Speaker B: He does and he knows himself and he's, he's really anxious to learn and figure out what can he add into the mix or to his Rolodex of things that he does. And then it takes the discipline too to do them. I mean, you know, Bauer is a lot quirky, more quirky than Joyce and you could say, well it's, you know, he's just got the dirty hat and he wants everyone to see him long toss and for attention and stuff like that. Or he's got his own system and he's kind of selfish, you could label it that way. But really at the heart of it is you have to have the discipline to do all those things every day in order for this, the formula to work. And both those guys have it, as. [00:46:07] Speaker A: Do others at your level, the players have to have ego. I don't consider ego a bad term. I think you have to have it in order to compete. But you mentioned it in this generation, how do you get them to buy into the team concept Again? Kids are more self centered now, which that's just part of their generation. They're supposed to be with everything that they deal with, with technology and social media now they're going to be more self centered. But how do you mix those egos in? Because they need that to compete. You go into those stadiums that you guys play in, you have to have that because if not you're going to wilt. But how do you mix that in then with getting them to buy into team concepts? [00:46:44] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a tough one that there's, there's probably nothing you can do as a coach solely to get them to do it. It has to be kind of reverberating around the locker room and other people have to be bought in. But I think it all starts with self awareness and perspective on what it means to have swagger out there or to have ego and believe in yourself if it bleeds into the locker room and you're the only guy that has the aux cord because you're the man, you know, now you're kind of creating a mess. So just for brevity's sake, that's how I would compartmentalize that. And then, you know, how you need to understand you need your teammates is they're there to make life easier on you and build your ego up. And I don't know that we can replicate for a while what we did this year where the top six guys, I believe all had over 20 homers. Well, for those of us that have been in the dugout like you and been the pitching coach, it's like, are you, you know, are you kidding me? This guy's up. I just got done dealing with this guy. Or you're thinking about the three hole hitter, but meanwhile the two hole hitters wearing you out. And so they kind of leaned on each other. And I think this group, because now it is a part of our everyday conversations that you can't do it alone. I think that group realizes fully if you ask them, I would not have been able to do what I did unless Blake Burke was behind me or Dylan Dryling was in front of me. It takes a lot of conversations by the coach and then ultimately you're begging and hoping that the players will take that and circulate it around the dugout in the locker room. [00:48:28] Speaker A: And I think you do as good a job as anybody as we have of letting players have their own personalities on the field with just the things that you not allow, but you're allowing them to be themselves. [00:48:39] Speaker B: Well, thank you. And I said earlier, you know, like I said, we could do away with the celebrations at second, but we're all going to have to agree otherwise because I don't want to be. We're not going to get many recruits if we're the only program doing that. But. And I don't even know where the hell the. I didn't know that our first game of the year someone was going to come out of the dugout with a coat, you know, I guess 21 or 22, whenever that was. But they again behind the scenes, in order to be the guy that stands there at home plate and flips your bat, you have to do a ton to work your butt off and be in a position to be that guy. And in my opinion, because I get to see it every day, I don't know that I could have done it. As a player, you've earned the right to. If you want to wear your pants a certain way or you want to do this now, there's a limit. And the cool thing is, I think, because they feel like they're being treated like pros here, if we call them into the office and say, drew, you're. You're a madman out there in center, and we love you, but don't. Don't throw your helmet in the dugout. I don't think he ever did it again once after that, which speaks to what type of kid he is. But, yeah, there is a limit to all that stuff. And I don't know how you find that delicate balance where everybody cheers for your program and your players love it and the opponent respects you and all that. That's probably impossible. But we're playing in a new age, and to me, it's. It's probably the most fun, and it's definitely the most watched college baseball right now. [00:50:06] Speaker A: And I was going to ask you, I think 23 and 24 are the two best fields we've had at the College World Series. [00:50:14] Speaker B: The star power is electric. You find yourself, you know, I got to do that draft this year, and it's like, thank goodness I get to say Charlie Condon with a smile on my face rather than literally having nightmares. You get to become fans of these guys when you're not the team playing, because the star power is off the chain. And what's adding to it is you all cover the kids so well, and there's so many different little specials where now you kind of got to interface with them. Kind of like Kirby has that bond with our fans here. A microcosm of that is what the media allows guys to have with certain players. And the kids are also playing their hearts out. So I think people pay attention to that. [00:50:59] Speaker A: I mean, that's the thing. Like, no matter. I think everybody gets distracted by some of the antics, but you go watch a game and actually watch them play. They are play. They play hard. [00:51:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, the level to which it means a lot to these guys is represented by, if you are watching the postseason, what the end looks like. And you got to look away because it's. It's so painful to see. All these kids dream of going to Omaha, and now they don't just play three sports in high school or two sports and Then you know, hitting the cage once in December. It's a year round thing, which is a whole nother podcast. But they're throwing everything in the kitchen sink at this career as an individual and then as a team, they spend more time around one one another than ever because you have player lounges and things like that. And so when it comes to a screeching halt again, you almost got to kind of look away because even though you maybe won the game, you might be tearing up seeing Liberty, you know, Scott Jackson's team, you respect seeing the way it ends for them or something like that. [00:52:05] Speaker A: How do you handle it with your players and staff? There's so much outside noise from fan. Your fan base is awesome, but there's going to be a lot of outside noise. They probably expect you to win every game and go undefeated and never lose. How do you keep them centered? And maybe not that you're not going to pay attention to it, but don't pay attention to the outside noise that's out there. [00:52:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we've never done a chart, but I think you got an inner circle and then another and then another. And really with no disrespect to guys like me that were a red shirt one year or didn't travel at times, your true family or inner circle come spring is the guys that are traveling and you come back home to a guy that's maybe injured or whatever and that's the next wave. Or you're, you know, a support staff that doesn't normally travel with you as the next server and it keeps going out. And as you keep going out, the level of importance of what somebody says is gotta, you gotta subtract it a little bit. And how much attention you're gonna pay to each of those people has also got to decrease a little bit. And you know, it might even mean mom and dad. I mean at home they should supersede any teacher or coach, but when it comes to our team, they are a little bit outside the circle. And you'd like to think they're supporting the kids and having those conversations and maybe that's my way of putting out an advertisement for just, you know, what's crazy. And you know, this is from the coaching perspective, those dinners after the game, especially when we play a three game series where mom and dad take you and your roommates out to dinner, that little conversation is incredibly powerful and so are a lot of other things. So you bring up an important topic, but there is no easy way to control all that, especially in the SEC or Here in Knoxville, I lean on the younger coaches a lot on that. Of just little nudges to the kids and little tips of maybe don't read the comments as much or don't engage with this and only spend so much time doing this. But it is a everyday challenge, that's for sure. [00:54:05] Speaker A: And we're in. We're in the Marriott with you all. I think your players and staff have handled the environment of Omaha as good as any of the teams that I've been in the hotel with. I just think there's. There was some good looseness, but then they also were talking about opponents, and so I think you had a good mix of. There was some looseness, but also here to go out and win games, too. [00:54:31] Speaker B: Well, thank you. I think there's a learning curve there. You know, literally having stayed in that hotel a few years back, and then there's that balance that's naturally there with that team, too. But, yeah, our sport, you gotta have antics on the bases and have somebody, you know, bring a helmet out or a chain because you hit a home run. We got a lot of downtime to fill in this sport, and that includes at the hotel and again out at the meals and how you manage all that, you know, if you got Dylan Cruz, you know, you're that explosive and that athletic, you can make up for a lot of things. It buys you room for air. But even him and being on a team or other examples, everything counts. And there's so much downtime in the locker room and bus trips and after bp, the sitting and the waiting, that it's really important to manage that time the right way. [00:55:26] Speaker A: Do you feel like two years ago, if you don't have to face Paul Skenes on Friday night, it might be a different outcome for you all. [00:55:32] Speaker B: It helped. [00:55:33] Speaker A: One of the best college pitching performances I've ever seen. He looked like Nolan Ryan that day. Like, I. Honestly, it's. And I'm thinking about it as I'm doing my notes, and I'm like, you know, what if Tennessee doesn't have to play LSU on Friday and Skeen's not pitching, that might turn out. It might be back, talking back to back. [00:55:49] Speaker B: We really found, excuse me, our stride as a team with how we formulated our bullpen. And, you know, Halverson from up north, I mean, he really found his groove because he had come off an injury the year before, and Burns is throwing the heck out of it. And then the starting pitching is so good, and the position players weren't as close as the 22 group because they weren't together. We lost so many guys, so I don't know what kind of run we could have made, but that, that was not good facing him. And then what you see is in that game, we've got a plan. And he comes out throwing more off speed pitches than he had the entire year. And for strikes and filthy. And then I thought our kids actually did a good job in that game, adjusting a little bit. We just. He's so good. You didn't have a lot to show for it. At least we got him out of the dang game. But, you know, this year was funny. I'm like, our first year we faced Abbott and my goodness, was he underrated, including in the draft. And I think he's killing in the big leagues. I don't know. But when I first saw his video because we're not in the acc, I was like, damn it, this is not good. And then of course, with schemes, you know what you're getting into. So we're like, I think this year we're due to catch a break. Well, you know, for all those people that want to make their way to Omaha, you better understand there isn't a break on day one. And I don't know, maybe that kid from Florida State could be the number one pick this year because we didn't catch a break with Arnold. But our guys, starting with Seymour, kind of led the charge, did an incredible job against them. [00:57:27] Speaker A: I mean, how much information are you relaying to the guys about opponents? [00:57:32] Speaker B: I think it depends on how much you have. You know, with, with he and Abbott, you're kind of just watching video and you don't really know exactly what it's like. And you can talk to people, but it's not the same as if you already faced a guy before or he's in the league and you're following all these games and you kind of really know how to track things. So it's a filtering process because I think these kids can overload themselves with information on their own. And nowadays they're going to check it out, who we face in and they announce the rotations. And I think if anything, it's what to share. Not sharing all of it, but. But definitely a case by case deal. [00:58:15] Speaker A: How did you know to stay heavily involved in recruiting when you took over? Not everybody does that. And I give you a lot of credit for that, but how did you know? [00:58:22] Speaker B: I appreciate it. Well, so there's a guy named Carmen Tigano who was behind the scenes and he helped me get hired here. Not just along with, you know, along with John Curry, I should say the ad. And he thought because of guys like Coach McDonnell and Sully, Tennessee needed somebody with a recruiting background and maybe a little younger and things like that. And so I just. He said that and he's Italian. We became real close friends. So I kind of rubber stamped it, you know, at least internally. If this is why I got hired, then this is how and why I need to stay hired. And so it all kind of just stemmed from day one. And then the other thing is we brought in Coach Elander, who, to be honest with you, I just thought so much of him as a coach and he didn't have experience of being on the road not even one day. And you. And I know hustle makes up for a lot, but you also learn, you look back and it's like, why did I do that? Or why did I listen to that guy again, you got to have some reps and you got to have some failure and things like that. So in order to, you know, kind of get this thing kick started. Was already heavily involved and slowly kind of gave more and more responsibility to him. And now it's a deal where it's almost like he's fighting me for it. He knows it, he can do it probably more organized, better than I could. So let him have it. But at the same time, it's kind of something I've enjoyed and something I've done since I've been here. So still want to have at least a role in it. [01:00:04] Speaker A: I mean, what would you like to see? Rules changes wise, Division 1 going forward, if anything. [01:00:09] Speaker B: Oh, man. [01:00:12] Speaker A: Someone asked me this time, right now we are, we're at a really pivotal time. I worried. I think we're this the most exciting time for Division 1 baseball ever. But we're also at a pivotal time for Division 1 baseball too. [01:00:24] Speaker B: No, we are. And someone asked me this and as soon as it was over, I thought of my better two answers because I get selfish. I don't like the 10 run rule. We only get so many games. I like to play the games. I really feel like this is probably going to change. But one of my better answers I thought of that day was, it's a little crazy that our first official day of practice is not even a month before the season starts. And so these guys are going to train with their agency or their pitching coach, which is cool, but they got to buy into what we're trying to do as a team. And so we should be able to be around them at the Very least for health circumstances, because we got guys like Chase Dolander that are throwing bullpens at home and the season is five weeks away or six weeks away. It just doesn't make sense. So I think we should be able to be around them, you know, more often during that period. It would be nice to start the season a little later with the weather, but I don't. I don't know how likely that is to happen. Coach Johnson from LSU throughout, why not make opening day Tuesday a midweek day? And he had a lot of good reasons. But one reason I like is if you look at the calendar, that would mean no. And this is what he was getting at, to no weeks where there's five games in a week where you're really stretching your pitching thin. I know that would throw off some people that do some cool dual midweek Tuesday, Wednesday against Virginia Tech here or something like that. But that's definitely one that sticks out and it is a pivotal time. And my only ask is I wish people with boots on the ground were the ones, you know, contributing the decisions a little bit more. I realize athletic directors have roles and things like that, and that's really what. [01:02:16] Speaker A: We'Re trying to get fixed on our end, just because we are so in tune with you all. That's what we're trying to push for a little bit more, too, is allow us to have a little bit more autonomy to help you all get the things that you want done. [01:02:31] Speaker B: Sure. And I think the recruiting has gotten sorted a little bit more. This deal where we're allowed to create, you know, recruit juniors, and it's so fun to go to some of these events and actually get to scout, you know, not that, you know, I definitely don't have the formula for that figured out, but you go to Lake Point and you watch two at bats and it's like, I better decide because this kid could literally commit tonight. There's still chaos, but at least there's a little more of a sequence to it with the way that it's going on. So I think we've gone in the right direction in a lot of areas. It's just, I think the more we get into tune of pulling the student athlete or pulling the players, pulling younger coaches, pulling older, and make sure there's somebody. If we're going to do recruiting rules, call in a couple guys that are on the road. You know, J. Bob from Texas Tech, I think literally doesn't have a house in Lubbock. You know, let him chime in on some of these recruiting Roles and things like that, man. [01:03:25] Speaker A: I always ask coach, do you. Did you feel any different after you won it? [01:03:30] Speaker B: I got a call from Sully in between the, the. The loss and the win. So we're one and one going into the old, you know, rubber match, normally on a Sunday in league play. And family was there. That was cool. Talked to a bunch of different people. We're trying to figure out, hey, we know they're bringing in ashen back and no one can hit the dang guys. So should we blunt or should we take. What do we do? And, you know, amongst all those calls, he calls and he's. He's always tried to mentor a little bit because, again, he was a younger recruiting guy and he's had a lot of success and he and the other coaches for how I act on the field have been very good to me. But he said, listen, no matter how it goes, it's not going to change your life. You're not going to wake up in a month and be a completely different person. And he is 100% dead accurate. And would I take a win over a loss? Well, yeah, absolutely. But I think I look back on it and I mentioned those panic attacks. I woke up about seven different nights within the first couple weeks thinking we need one more out and kind of having a panic attack. And then I've also had nights where we need one more win and I kind of wake up and then also little mini thoughts of panic of if this wouldn't have happened, you know, this one at bat or this one thing or this one guy doing this or Comzy coming back instead of signing in the draft, which he was very close to doing. It's all off the rails and it's just really weird to think. And I think what it makes you appreciate is there's a lot of success to be found that doesn't include a trophy. And then also, to understand more now than ever, you've got to have a lot of things go right in your favor for it to click. So more now than ever, I think I have an appreciation for anybody that's able to win because it's not just a championship, it might be a series or making it to Omaha again as competitors. Your first instinct is, you know, they beat you out for a recruit and that guy pitched the complete game and they go to Omaha. Your first instinct up here is, you know, that guy sucks or they got lucky or they cheated or whatever. And now I think I'll have a little bit more of a stable perspective of you got to Be really fortunate to have a lot of things go right. And of course you got to have really good players too. [01:05:56] Speaker A: Do you have a fail forward moment, something you thought was going to sidetrack you along the way, but it's helped you move forward, I think, just as a player. [01:06:04] Speaker B: There was two nights where I was going into Coach J's office the next day 100% and quitting. And, you know, I was so. It was like the old school, you know, I don't even know if young kids know now. You know, we taught, we were taught we were younger. You got a good angel and a bad angel over here. I'm, I'm lying in bed trying to fall asleep and one angel saying, you know, you need to quit. You're, you're investing all this and what are you getting out? And then the other one of, you know, stick with it, I guess. But it was so mixed. And so I cried. Hate, hate to admit it, but I did. And I don't know why, but the next day just got right back after it. But if I would have quit, that poster wouldn't have came to fruition. Sooner or later, a hard worker will succeed. If I would have been smarter, it could have happened for me as a player at least a little bit more. But the answer is when you start coaching. And I wouldn't have got to the coaching point if it weren't for that. And I think, you know, that helped spur on all the losses that you and I have taken on the phone of I'm going somewhere else. It's painful in kids out there. Just call and do it. Don't text, call and do it. We've heard no a million times. We're not going to like it. We might say take a hike or something bad in the moment, but it hurts. And then all the losses when you lose, we have more reps. I know football games, it's a bigger deal, but we have more reps. So you get pricked more or whatever, you take on more losses. And all those I think I've been able to stay positive with because I took so dang many of them as a player. [01:07:48] Speaker A: Thickest skin in the game. I say it all the time. I give you guys a lot of credit because to stay in it as long as you guys have the successful ones, your skin has to get really thick. [01:07:59] Speaker B: Well, and it's like. And you watched your dad, you understand that, you know, there is no justice in this deal. There certainly is good. A good job done and a bad job done, but there's there's really no justice, whether it be on the scoreboard or what your salary or contract says or what your job title is or where you get to work, it just doesn't play out like that. [01:08:22] Speaker A: And so I experience, like being at the super regional and you have 30 UE baseball alums that are back hanging out and my dad's there like that. That's. That's the look back part of that whole deal. And I'm sure you see that with your dad and the players that played for him. Like, you see that and that's like, okay, that, that made it all worth it. That made it all worth it. [01:08:43] Speaker B: No question. [01:08:43] Speaker A: The wins or losses don't matter. Like, this is what makes it worth it. [01:08:48] Speaker B: No question. And that's the true peace of mind that, again, it's cool to have the trophy, but I guess if someone's aspiring to win it or someone that has it would, I think, agree with me, is to hang your hat on that is probably a waste of time because it's not going to give you kind of what you're talking about, that feeling when those people come back and that bond that's there. [01:09:10] Speaker A: What are some final thoughts before I let you go? [01:09:13] Speaker B: But I hope my battery survives. I think I need to buy a new MacBook or have Tennessee buy me one. But no, I just appreciate you having me on. And I think it's pretty special, the households we grew up in, that it put us in a position where we have a sense of purpose. We're not in a cubicle lost, we're involved in the game. And there's a bunch of different ways you can stay involved in the game. And you know, those times that you get to be around your dad when he's a coach are times you wouldn't have had if you were playing at another place or working at another place. And there's nothing like that to begin with. But when you throw in the bond of a teammate that happens to be a family member, that makes it about as special as you can. Because those bonds you were talking about are probably what I love the most, is the camaraderie when everyone's on the same page. You win a game at Missouri, I still remember a bus ride where we're all singing and then we watched Chris Farley, the Best of Chris Farley, and we're all acting it out on the bus. I probably remember more of those details than I do what was going on in that dang ninth inning, you know, against Texas A and M this year. So those Bonds are incredibly important and I enjoy them and I think it's what keeps people involved in the game. [01:10:30] Speaker A: Thanks for your time, Tony. I'll see you in D.C. you bet. [01:10:32] Speaker B: I appreciate you so much. [01:10:34] Speaker A: It's always great to talk to another coach who grew up in the house of a coach. There's a common bond that we all have, seeing what our coaching parents went through and the sacrifices they made in their own careers. Congrats again to Coach Vitello and Ball Nation on capturing this year's national championship. Thanks again to Jim Richardson, John Litchfield, Zach Hale, Matt west and Antonio Walker in the ABC office for all their help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via email rbrownlebca.org Twitter, Instagram and TikTok at coachbca or direct message me via the MyBCA app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off for the American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks and leave it better for those behind you and the world keeps on. [01:11:18] Speaker B: Turning and your life is not for your name and you know that way. [01:11:28] Speaker A: Yep Wait for another day. [01:11:33] Speaker B: And the world will always return as your life I was there before your next and you know that place. [01:11:48] Speaker A: Wait for another. [01:11:53] Speaker B: Day.