Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the abca's podcast. I'm your host, ryan brownlee.
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Learn more by emailing salesapsapsodo.com or visit their website rapsodo.com Baseball Today's guest on the ABCA podcast is ABCA Atech Pacific Association Coach of the year Tom Nellis.
11 seasons leading Santa Ana College, Nillis has guided the program to two state championships and four state tournament appearances.
The 2026 team put together one of the greatest seasons in school history, setting program records with 44 wins, 563 runs scored and 80 home runs on its way to a state championship. The Dons also captured their first Orange Empire Conference title since 2014, earning Nillis, OEC and California Community College Baseball Coaches Association Coach of the Year honors for the second time in his career. Nillis earned his 300th career win in the final game of the season. He now own trails the legendary Don Sneddon in program history in both wins and state championships. That championship followed another memorable run in 2023 when Nillis led Santa Ana to its first state title since 1996, guiding 36 win team through a dominant Postseason finish. Nillis impact goes well beyond Santa Ana. Before taking over the Dons, he helped rebuild the Fullerdon College program, leading the Hornets to their first postseason appearance since 1992, their first OEC championship and their first state championship appearance. Early in his career, Nilis was part of a Sierra College staff that captured the 2008 state championship. Throughout his coaching career, Nils has helped develop professional draft picks, Division 1 scholarship athletes, all Americans, and countless players who have gone on to compete at the four year level. Let's welcome Tom Nellis to the podcast.
All right here. Tom Nellis, ABCA Atech Pacific association coach of the year, but head coach at Santa Ana since 2015, but full time professor, second 3C 2A championship this year and second in program wins behind legendary coach Don Sneddon. So Tom, thanks for jumping on with me.
[00:03:56] Speaker B: Yeah, excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
[00:03:58] Speaker A: Hey, it seems like along your, your coaching journey, it seems like championships have, have kind of followed you along the way.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd like to say it's all me. No, no, absolutely right. Like 2008, I had the opportunity to win with Rob Wilson up at Sierra College.
I actually played for Rob at Landing College in like inner city Oakland. So that's kind of when I got exposed to him. And then my wife's from Southern California, we made the move down south, was able to catch on at Fullerton College, was there six years, won the conference there. First time they had done that, went to the final Four unfortunately, lost there 2013.
And then yeah, they hired me at Santa Ana a couple years after coach Ned stepped down and yeah, got it I guess rolling as good as it can be.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: I mean, what have been the common themes with those stops?
[00:04:53] Speaker B: I guess me. No,
[00:04:55] Speaker A: I say, I mean obviously winners win.
It's a huge.
[00:04:59] Speaker B: Well, look, I mean I think I give like Rob Wilson was incredible and kind of guiding me and obviously I played for him and they got a chance to coach with them and he gave me a ton of responsibility to really kind of spread my wings and learn and, and, and then when I moved down south, you know, I was, I was there with coach Nick Fiscardo and kind of the same deal. He let me kind of do a lot of stuff, you know, to where it's like you're learning everything you need to do to be, need to have to become a head coach at our level. Right. And just kind of like some guidance and some tips. I mean I just had this conversation the other day with Pop who's been at Santa Ana since 1981, I was like, yeah, man, like I was an assistant doing all these exit meetings, like by myself, you know, which is kind of like, I guess, unheard of. It was first time I ever had to do that. You know, tell a young man he's not going to make your roster. Like, that's a tough one.
When you tell them that they got a big role for you, that's. That's much easier right then. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that there was a lot of that and then just kind of the system that's been put in place. And then obviously now at Santa Ana, I've been blessed to have a consistent coaching staff. You know, I got in here, it's my 12th year. George has been with me every single one of those things. Or every single one of those years. Pop has been here for every single one of those.
Dennis Gerbaci, it's like his eighth or ninth year now. And then we have some younger guys that played here that are coaching.
Right. So it's just the consistency within the messaging and what we want to do and then also kind of being around each other enough and it to feel free to like, hey, I like this, or I don't like that, and just kind of keep bouncing ideas off each other until we get it to where we want it to be, you know, I mean, we all have great ideas. It's like, how can we implement it? What's going to be the best route? And just kind of fine tuning those things. So every year you're constantly getting a little bit better on how you're delivering your message and, like, what you want to do and what you want to accomplish.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: How do you handle that as a young assistant, though, without overstepping your bounds? Obviously you handle the responsibilities great, but how do you. I think that's tough as we all were young assistants that you're. You're handling these responsibilities, but you're also not overstepping your bounds with the head
[00:07:20] Speaker B: coach. I mean, at the end of the day, you always have to quit qualified as like, hey, what does the skipper want me to do and what does he not want me to do? And, you know, how much leniency does he want? You know, like with Rob, I mean, he was in total control. Everything with Coach Fiscardo, he certainly kind of allowed me to run a little bit more free, you know, and that was like an interesting situation. I'm not from Southern California. I moved down here. There's a bunch of new assistants, and we were all kind of sitting there like, I don't want to step on anybody's toes. Like, a ton of value in, like, what they had to bring to the table.
And it was kind of the beginning. Part of it was, you know, there were some growing pains involved with that deal eventually. I was on campus a lot, teaching, you know, I mean, that was. So I was there. And so it made it a little bit easier to kind of take the lead. And those guys were awesome.
Still buddies with them today. You know, I mean, they're not all still coaching, but we talk a lot and, you know, check in. A couple are out of state now and try to connect as much as we can. But.
But, yeah, I mean, it certainly is a fine line. And I think you got to learn, like, there's some things you're going to do that might make the head guy a little upset, and then there's some stuff that he's happy with and kind of lets you roll with and, you know, but it's always just the communication. Right? Like, what do you want me to do? Like, I'll do whatever you want, you know, or if you want me to run with it, just, we'll do it. But.
And just. And they were all great along the way.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: What are the difference between Northern California and Southern California?
[00:08:52] Speaker B: Well, the weather, right?
No, I hate cold weather. I was more than excited. You know, we had a heat spell a couple weeks ago. It was like 102 or whatever here. And I was in hog heaven. Yeah, no, I dislike the cold weather. I dislike the clouds. Like, give me the sun.
Honestly, you know, like, I just think how much baseball they're able to play here. You know, I remember my first December down here. I was in shorts and flip flops walking my dog on Christmas. You know, I mean, it's. It's 90 degrees. It's. You can't beat it, you know, I mean, there's a drizzle down here and, like, the whole world shuts down. Like, it's raining. I was like, this is like a morning commute for, you know, like, this is just everyday stuff. But yeah, I think just the caliber of baseball just a little bit, like, better. Just in terms of hitters. They just have so many reps and the amount of talent. There's so many. So many, like, players here. It's. It's insane.
So that's probably the biggest difference is just like, how. How can jester how much talent there is, you know, up north, it's 30 minutes to drive to a neighboring JC. You know, we're in the middle. In the middle of everybody. You know, you drive 10 minutes in any direction, and you're at another really good junior college and are in our conference, too.
[00:10:12] Speaker A: George did do a great job, by the way, with his interview.
[00:10:15] Speaker B: I know you
[00:10:15] Speaker A: just gave a great snapshot of the program. Like, I
[00:10:19] Speaker B: listen. I listened, for sure.
[00:10:20] Speaker A: Tremendous snapshot of the program. You can tell why you guys are doing the things that you're doing.
[00:10:25] Speaker B: Well, yeah, well, when you have a guy just mentioned, like, right, we've been together 12 years. When you have a guy that you can trust innately to, like, run one half of the baseball, you know, on the side that I'm not necessarily, like, the best at. Right.
Certainly could do it. I've done pitching in the past. But you're just like, hey, man, those guys are yours, and you make sure that they're ready to go, and I can go focus on the things that I want to do, which is for a lot of runs. And. And it just works out well, you know, and it's a.
And he knows he has the freedom to do those things. You know, he always checks in, like, hey, what do you like, what do you. You know, But I mean, it's really, like, collaborative, and it's like, look, man, you're. Those are your guys. Who do you feel comfortable with, Comfortable with in X, Y and Z roles and, you know, like, hey, I agree, or, hey, I like this guy, and then we can have a conversation. But, yeah, no, he's. He's been a phenomenal asset and been certainly paramount in our success.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: What do you feel like the rise in offense has been here recently, I think, at all levels of college baseball. But you look at your guys, numbers and the records that you broke last year, runs and home runs.
[00:11:29] Speaker B: Yeah, you talk about, we broke a lot of records, you know, and like, for me, like, winning a state championship was awesome. Right. I mean, incredible feat for the young men that do it, you know, And I sit back there as kind of like. As like a scholar of our level and who's the best of the best. And obviously, Coach Sneddon is certainly in that conversation.
And to know and to have. To have coached against him at one point and know what those offenses were, and then to go ahead and break a bunch of these records, you know, and those records stood when they were, you know, minus fives and, you know, the Beezers and whatever else, like, to me, like, that was. That spoke like, you know, volumes to what. What our offense was able to do, you know? You know, look, I think the kids, they train like crazy you know, I think that there's a lot of specialty and they spend a lot of time investing in their craft and certainly we want them to do those things.
I think the bats are kind of back too. I mean, you look at the things that are out there, I don't know if I can mention any names, but I mean, the bats are. I mean, the balls are jumping, you know, and it's not just that they're bigger, faster and stronger, they're kind of back to what they wore. I mean, balls are coming off hot and it certainly has to speak, you know, certainly relatable to why the offense is back. And you know, I think there's always just like a lack of pitching. Right. You know, I think everybody's struggling to find the quality arms that they need from the Division 1 level down to, you know, even high school baseball. It's like, hey man, like guys are getting picked through and you know, you have to develop talent at our level and, and I think that's every level, right? Like, guys are running people out there. You're kind of like, I'm not sure that he's a D1 caliber arm or whatever. You know, even guys that are getting recruited, you know, you're just like, oh man, that's surprising. Like, hopefully he has a good, good run for you and then they go and have some success there and you're kind of like, okay, great, like, glad it panned out. But yeah, I think that, you know, pitching is just at such a premium that it makes it.
The offenses are able to really show themselves, especially at our level. I mean, the Chasey level, you know, I mean, it's in California, it's, you know, you get some frontline arms and then you might get some that, that you can score quite a few on, especially if you extend that, open that thing up.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: I mean, how was it taking over Coach Naddin? Okay, well, you know, not everybody can do that though.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah, well, there's a two year gap, so I'm the guy after the guy.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Yeah, but it's pretty race. It's still pretty though.
[00:14:07] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
Look, honestly, it was like I took it as a challenge, you know, kind of how I operate my everyday life, you know, like, I like taking on challenges. Like I like to do things I'm not good at.
I just find it fun to try to figure out a way to continue or to get better at something. And when I took over the job and not having any connection to Coach Nin, like, he was awesome. He called me, he said, hey, let Me give you the ins and outs of Santa Ana College. Let me tell you how you're going to have to operate politically, if you will, within the administration to get the things that you need.
Gave me some guidance. You know, probably is his best words of encouragement or guidance were like, find nine horses and let him run. You'll seem like a great coach. You know, like, I was like, thanks. Thanks, coach.
I'll try to live up to that one.
But no, he was. He was. He was incredible in just trying to. He just wanted the program to be good. I think everybody that's involved in a place when their time's done and they've put, you know, blood, sweat and tears into something that they just want to see it continue on, right? Because it's very easy for it to fall off, you know, I mean, this place won 14 games a year before I got the job.
And I think, you know, like, you see and you know, like, what it can be, but it takes a lot of effort, and you just got to have some pride in the things you're doing, and I think you wanted somebody that was going to do that.
And again, he didn't know me from anything, you know, outside of, like, having to coach against me. And obviously, I was able to kind of get Fullerton up and running and whatnot while I was there.
But. But, yeah, I mean, it was. It was a challenge, you know, but he was awesome in the. In the time. In the time that he gave me and answered questions and always answered my phone calls and. And no, George didn't really allude to this, like, every. Like every September, like the old. Our star coaching staff and the old Don's coaches go up to Vegas for, like, the opening of the NFL weekend. And.
And I actually had the chance. I would drive up with Coach Netten. I drive back with Coach Netten. We shared, like, we shared a room while we were up there. And, like, so it was three days, me just picking his brain about what needed to happen or what I could do or, hey, these are the situations I'm seeing. What would you do here? How would you handle this? Like, what do you think about that? And vice versa, which, you know, I found extremely flattering. This guy's asking me questions about baseball.
But, yeah, I mean, it was, you know, like I said, I mean, I'm just proud to, like, carry the torch and kind of continue on the tradition of Santa Ana College baseball. And like I said, I mean, it's really. It's in a good spot, you know, I mean, it's we're winning games and moving guys on and having success and, you know, like, even like classroom wise. I think we had like 42 guys on the roster. We had 38 of them on the dean's list. I mean, I mean, that speaks volumes for the type of young men we're getting. And. And obviously they're winning some games to go with it.
[00:17:04] Speaker A: How do you personally train yourself to be good with trying new things?
I think we need more of that in society right now. I think everybody's afraid to show that they don't know things or try new things. I think everybody's scared.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: Yeah, well, like I mentioned, I think it's just kind of my mindset. Like, that's just what I find interesting, you know, like, I finish playing and I don't get that. I didn't have that competition piece anymore. I just started doing triathlons. You know, I got like seven or eight Ironmans under my belt. I did a bunch of halves.
I taught a triathlon class, which was awesome.
Took some kids out and we did. We did one out in the desert in like December. It was freezing cold. Lucky they didn't die on me.
But, you know, it was just one of those things. Like, I didn't swim, I didn't bike, I didn't run. Like, that wasn't competitive in those things. I was terrible at all of them. I was like, hey, I'm just going to go try to do this. I was training a guy that was like an Olympic triathlete.
He was like, come out on this open water swim. I was out in Folsom Lake. I almost died. I didn't know what I was doing. Yeah, the Jet Ski had to come save me, you know, but it was just one of those things. But I was hooked. I was like, I'm so bad at this. Like, what am I going to do to get better? You know, now that I have kids, I don't have the time to train and do those sorts of things, right? But I'm still always kind of driven at, like, becoming better at something. I mean, like every year, like, even the coaching, it's always like. I mean, I listen to your podcast.
I take in all the content from the abca, you know, Love hearing guys talk about hitting. Is there one thing I can steal from them and implement it in the system or the things that I want to do, right? And it's, is it going to help our guys get better, you know, or is it going to help one guy get better? Right? I mean, at the end of the Day. It's kind of like always trying to be better than you were the previous year, at least to me, you know, And I just do that. Not everything I do in life, you know, And I've been. I'm. And I've also learned the science of saying no, right? If I'm not interested in doing it, I just say no. Like, if I'm not gonna be invested in it.
No is a powerful word that I think a lot of people are. Are scared to say. Right? And, you know, and then I think other. The other side of this is, like, younger. This younger generation. I hate social media. Like, I. I have accounts. Our Sid runs them for me. I'm not. I'm not on that stuff, but, you know, I mean, I think they're just scared because everyone's presenting some, like, highlight reel of their lives every single day, and it's like, hey, man, like, you didn't see all the failures that took them to get there, you know, like, you're getting a snapshot of their life or the process to get there, you know? Like, I think you learn a lot more from failing than from being successful right away, you know, And I think they would. That's certainly, like, how I try to coach our guys. It's like, put them in positions to be. To fail and have them learn, you know, and not just me, like, holding their hand, you know, it's like, hey, here's, like, here's the pathway that you got to go down now. There's, you know, there's four or five routes down the same to get you to the same result. You got to find the one that works for you. And I'm just here to kind of correct some stuff along the way, not to do it for you.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: How many kids did you have sign up for a triathlon class?
[00:20:15] Speaker B: Oh, man, I had, like, 30.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: Did you really?
[00:20:17] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:20:19] Speaker A: Good for that.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: No, it was. It was an awesome class. You know, like, we swam. We just swam at the pool. We did.
We got a river. Like, the Santa Ana River Trail goes to the beach up to Corona. So it's like a long stint, you know, and then we'd run around. There's a couple trails that were out there. Oh, yeah. No, I had a lot of kids in there, and we had a ton of fun, and some of them did, like, some bigger distances. I did an. I did an Olympic distance with, like, four or five of the students that were a little bit more fit, and then they had, like, a free sign up for a super sprint. I mean, super short and. But just for them to do that and accomplish it, and it's not like they're in the best shape of their lives. And then, like, maybe one or two got the bug, and it's like, hey, man, like, this is a lifelong thing that you can do. It's not just like, hey, I'm gonna win it. It's like accomplishing or finishing some stuff. Stuff goes a long way, too.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: What do you attribute to the success for Orange empire at the 3C 2A championships?
[00:21:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, look, the conference has always been successful, right? I mean, you have the programs that have been there, the coaches that have been in place, like, obviously, Coach Sinenden, Dennis Rogers, you know, like, those guys help build up with the conference is. I think there's a premium on baseball in Orange County. I think there's just a lot of good players.
If you look up and down the rosters, it's not really a lot of guys from, like, out of the area. You know, I mean, it's heavily Orange county built. I know our roster certainly is. We'll have one or two guys that come in from out of area.
But it makes it easier when you're, you know, I mean, lack of a better, like, term, but you're shooting fish in a barrel. I mean, there's so many kids here, and they're good and they're driven to be good, and they have, like, aspirations to be successful. And I think, like I said, there's a premium on baseball where, like, you don't see that as much everywhere else, right? It's, say, football, soccer, whatever it is. But in Orange county, like, baseball is still a very important sport, you know, and so when you have that much talent condensed in an area, you're going to have good programs.
[00:22:26] Speaker A: Where do you start with your new hitters, when you get them on campus?
[00:22:30] Speaker B: Well, it's funny you asked that. Honestly, I don't say a word to them. You know, I sit there and I want to see that. You know, like, first off, I got to get our sophomores back going the way I want them to, right? They go out to summer ball, they build up some bad habits. You know, it's just elevate and celebrate, and they forget that they got to be good hitters before, you know, all the power can show.
But with the freshman, I really don't say anything to them. I really want to see what they're good at, what they fail at, kind of adjustments that they can make on their own. I want to get our terminology on the same page so I certainly ask them questions with zero feedback, which sounds crazy, but it's kind of like, hey, man, I want to know what you're talking about within your swing. So when we have a conversation, we can be on the same page. Then all along we're in the classroom, we're talking hidden, we're doing stuff. And so that they start to learn kind of our vocabulary here. And. And then you can have like a real conversation, you know, the other point is I just don't have enough data on them. Like, I'm a big believer we use blast motion sensors for all our hitters. I don't care if they ever look at the data. It's for me. And it just gives me like an idea of how I want to try to attack their swing, to dial it in a little bit more.
Tons of video work, right? So you kind of get them up there, hey, here's this, here's, here's your swings. This is what I'm seeing. Here's what the numbers are saying. What's your opinion on this? And then really kind of give them a plan and get them in the cage and be like, hey, like, this is what's going to help you be more successful. And, and it's worked, right? You know, meanwhile, the sophomores, they've kind of, at that point, we've got enough trust in each other, you know, like, he trusts me, that I got his best interests in mind and the things that I think are going to be, they're going to help him be successful. And they're pretty receptive to the suggestions that I have, you know, And I like when they come in, you know, like I said, I don't like social media, at least sit there and scroll on it. But I do, like when they send me, like, hey, coach, what do you think about this drill for my swing or this, that and the other. And most of the time I just ask him a simple question. Will you tell me how that relates to your swing and why you think it'll work for you? And then we'll have a conversation about how we're going to implement it or other ways that we can see, like, what kind of impact it's going to have?
So, yeah. So the short story or the long.
Long story short, I don't do a whole lot with our freshmen. When they show up on campus, I kind of let them be who they are for a while and then figure out what they need to do swing wise. You know, we'll give them some external goals and then put some sort of Limitations on the things that we want them to do in bp. Right. And make them have to handle the bat, which is probably different than a lot of things they've done.
But, yeah, I just want to see how they.
How they. How they adjust on their own without me babysitting them.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: With your returning guys, what data do you go back to, like, say, with the blast sensor? What are you going back to? That, you know, they've gotten into bad habits over the summer. What are you going back to?
[00:25:27] Speaker B: Well, you know, I mean, most. Yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of it is just, like, the connection score. Like, you know, they're getting big on a lot of stuff, and then their attack angles are just terrible. You know, like, they're trying to lift baseballs. You know, they're swinging with bats or whatever. So I feel like they. They got to get the barrel there a little bit more.
But, yeah, that's really where it starts. And then just kind of the video breakdown and kind of putting some stuff together. Like, hey, here's some checkpoints. Like, you're not meeting a couple of these things, obviously. Like, I try to look at, like, where they're, like, early connection and, like, what the degree of, like, what the variation is in them, and just try to get the swing as consistent as possible, you know, and then allow their bodies to kind of make the adjustments from there. Like, I have a background in biomechanics, so, like, when we start talking hit, and that's really what I talk about. Like, I don't care about ball flight data at all. You know, it's kind of like, hey, I know when a ball guy hit really hard, right? Like, it hits the fence on a line, and it's like, okay, like, we're. We're in good shape, you know, but, you know, like, to me, it's like, hey, I'm gonna try to get your body to be as efficient as possible. Like, certainly those blast motion scores give me some feedback on that. And then some of the checkpoints, we have that when we're looking at video for, like, where they need to be or where some of the flaws are coming in and how we can clean them up. And they've been through the routine before, right? Like, a lot of the guys have the same issues, you know, and so they kind of know how to fix them. And that's like, my ultimate goal is I tell them that is, look, when you're here, like, eventually, like, I want you to not need. Not need me anymore, right? Like, you know your swing so well. Like, when it goes bad, like, you know how to fix it, you know, just like, you know, when the. When the train runs off the tracks, like, that's when I'm here, you know. But it's really to help. Like, you guys should be able to fix your swings based off, like, what's going on. Like, that's really where I want them to be when they leave our place.
[00:27:21] Speaker A: What were some things that stuck out for you when you first got into the biomechanics piece that maybe you didn't think about or see when you were playing or as a young coach?
[00:27:35] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, I mean, I think just that. That whole, like, kinetic link and trying to get the body to sink, what's the right way?
You know, I think when I was younger, it's just like, hey, let me be as big and strong and swing as hard as possible and be super stiff as opposed to, like, hey, man, let me try to be a little bit more fluid. And certainly, look, strength is paramount. If you want to drive some baseballs, you got to be strong. But if you get your body to work the right way and be able to steal time when you're full, like, you're going to have a lot more success and you're going to be able to drive balls. And you don't have to be 6, 4, 2, 25, right. You can be 511, 185, you know, 195 or whatnot. Right. And really, like, do some damage to baseball. So I think that's probably, like, the biggest piece is just really trying to get the body to sequence, but then, like, learning without all, like, the sensors and, you know, like, how do you do it on a JC budget? I think that's the important. So you really gotta try to, like, use your cues or what you have. Like, we all have cameras, right? Like, the blast sensors are certainly, certainly like a benefit, you know, or certainly, like, advantageous, you know, But I mean, if you didn't have those, what would you. You do? How would you build the swing up? Like, all those sorts of things. And really, you know, I mean, like, the ball doesn't lie. It tells you what you're doing and what your swing's doing. And then, you know, I had a chance. When I was. When I first moved down, I worked with a guy named. His name's Tim Jones, and he was a great hitting guy. You know, we were together. We were at Fullerton for six years. He actually came with me to Santa Ana when I got the job, and we've sat there and talked about hitting tedium and just, hey, how are we going to get this? How are we going to get that? You know, he would always have a great idea and then I would kind of put it on paper to be able to run a drill to get the effect we want. Right? So, you know, like, just having those conversations and using your resources, it doesn't matter how limited they are, as long as you kind of know what you're looking for, right? And then you're able to checkpoint. And if you're a young coach, like, you should be scouring through those, those videos on the abca, like, there's some great stuff on that. I can't. I'll listen to Dan Heavener talk about hitting until
[00:29:47] Speaker A: I was just with him a couple weeks ago.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: Yeah,
[00:29:51] Speaker A: no, I mean,
[00:29:51] Speaker B: he's, he, he's unbelievable. I mean, love listening to him to hear talk about hitting, you know, I mean.
But yeah, just like little things from each one of these guys and just trying to put it together and, you know, what are they doing and how are they checking these boxes? And then, hey, like, I don't have this, but I do have this. And you know, like, okay, like we can do that and implement it. And then it's just like really, like at our level, like, there's one full time guy, it's me, and it's on me to go through the video and put up, put together plans and delegate out to the assistants. Like, hey, this is what I want X, Y and Z to do. You know, I've been certainly like fortunate, like I said, to have good assistance, but giving them the freedom, like, if they're working with a guy, like, just, you know, instead of me, like, input, giving the input, like, give it to the coach, you know, give him a little bit of empowerment, like, hey, that's your guy. Like, go nuts. And if I see something not going right, like, I'll come back to you and kind of, hey, this is what I would do, especially with the young guys that are trying to learn, you know, or hey, like, this is what you got to do with this guy. Like, take him to the cage, like, go to. Right, like, just give them like some freedom. It was certainly done for me. And if they want to continue coaching, they're going to have to, you know, they're going to have to stand on their own at some point.
So, you know, I definitely try to do that with our coaches.
[00:31:11] Speaker A: Do you have set hitting drills you do every day. You give them freedom with that too?
[00:31:14] Speaker B: Well, those guys have like their own Individual routine, right? So it's kind of like, yeah, there's certain things we want all our guys to do, but each guy is going to have something slightly different depending on where they're, where they, they're struggling or what their issues are. And, you know, we'll kind of group some guys together like, hey, or like, if I'm going to go to the cage, like, hey, why don't you X, Y and Z guys come meet me at this time and we'll hit together. And a lot of them are, have, like I said, similar flaws or whatnot.
But yeah, I mean, yeah, we do. I mean, floating tees are big for me. I stole that one from Travis Duet. I was like, this is ingenious. You know, like, yeah, how often are you perfect? Like, never, right? So it was like came in like, instead of just like center, center cut, like, you know, middle, middle. And like your tee work, like, let's try to make this a little bit more dynamic. Like, I love that one. We do a bunch of high tee drill work, tons of one handed work, you know, where we try to isolate different things, you know, so like I said, there's like kind of a set routine, but there's like, I want our guys to, I want to make it individual, right? Like each guy is slightly different. They all have different things they do well or poorly. So why wouldn't we kind of build a program or their program to meet their needs as opposed to like, hey, here's just a cookie cutter stock approach to hitting, right? And like, certainly, like, I know George is the same way with the pitchers. And you know, I mean, it's. Everybody's slightly different. So like, you got to coach a little bit differently for each one of them.
[00:32:48] Speaker A: You think this is an easier fall conversation wise for hitting coaches because of what the Rays and the brewers did in the World Series?
[00:32:55] Speaker B: Say that again for me.
[00:32:56] Speaker A: Do you think there's an easier conversation this fall with. For hitting coaches because of what the Rays and the brewers did in the World Series?
[00:33:02] Speaker B: Well, yeah. I mean, for sure, yeah. Like, look at these two guys. They're not just sitting there hitting, you know, nothing but home run or bust, right? It's like they're actually playing baseball. I mean, you know, look, I live in Dodger country. I'm not a Dodger fan at all.
But it's. I was so excited to like watch that, that series. I was like, man, I just want to watch some teams play. Like, I mean, it was like watching college baseball, man. They're bunting, they're dragging, they're pushing, they're stealing bags, you know, like, I mean, the quality of the arms were pretty good. So, like, I can't speak on that. But yeah, I think the conversation becomes a lot easier for, for, you know, at least at our level, you know, where it's like, hey, man, like we've been telling you, you just got to be a good hitter and then the power stuff will come. You got to handle the bat, right? Like, I mean, you got to put the barrel on the thing. You can't punch out and think you're going to be successful in this game.
But yeah, I mean, I don't think we've had that issue as much. You know, I think guys kind of buy in, you know, I know like Nico Paletto last year, he had ended up with huge numbers, but if you look like he ended the year with like three home runs, you know, the average was there. He drove in some runs. You know, he had some stuff going on for the swing. It took a little while to like, really get it ironed out.
And when he took out, like, you see the power shows up, right? You know, when he showed up on campus, he wanted every ball 500ft. I'm just like, well, how about we just hit some balls hard on a line for a while and see what happens, right? And change some of the stuff that you're trying to do to the baseball. And then without really touching his swing, you know, and just giving up some external goals to try to meet and then.
And he ran wild with it and like, obviously it was good. But yeah, I mean, I think like the powers, the power comes, you know, as you get bigger and stronger and your swing gets a little bit more efficient and you're able to like, again, like sequence your body and go with better pitches and lay off some other ones. And, you know, I think, think another, another thing was just the umpires. I got a little bit tighter, you know, I mean, you're, we're usually hitting, you know, like, hey, two ball whiffs off. Like, you got to cover that at all times, right? And they seem to be a little bit tighter in their zones this past year. I don't know if that's something that's being taught.
[00:35:12] Speaker A: It is.
[00:35:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, for sure, you know, and we get a lot of D1 guys that, you know, like on their off weeks or they didn't get an assignment at D1. And I'm sure with Trackman and the data, like, they're starting to tighten up a little bit.
But yeah, I Mean, I think, I think that helps a ton, right? You know, like with the power and the hitting and stuff. And so you're not always like chasing accounts, you know, it's like, hey, that ball, that was a ball off before was a strike and now you're hey, it's 10 or 20 or 31 as opposed to chasing, you know, in 12 count. I mean that makes a big difference in offensive numbers. So
[00:35:47] Speaker A: what wasn't clicking for Nico during the year?
[00:35:50] Speaker B: Well, look, he. Well, Nico really, really want. I mean, he. All he wanted to do was hit, like I said, 500 foot bombs, you know,
[00:36:00] Speaker A: hardest thing for us to do.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: I know. Well, he ended up hitting quite a few of them later, you know, but it was just like the swing path and how he was trying to attack and you know, he was having success because he's strong and he's such a good player. But you know, I mean, if you looked at like what he was doing, if you go back and watch film, it was like, hey, he's hitting 370, you know, but it's like, yeah, but he's rolled 15 baseballs over third base that chopped right that he just got lucky that weren't foul or you know, that a guy didn't glove. And just so, you know, like for him it was just a matter of like, hey man, like let's get this out of your system and then kind of get you to where you need to go. And you know, the one thing I can say about Nico is that that guy plays hard, you know, like the effort he gave was second to none. And that's certainly like something we talk about is just like, hey man, like we only get 40 games guaranteed to us. Not even that with the weather, right? But we get a 40 game schedule. Like, it's not that you're 18 to 20 something years old. It's not that hard to give a maximal effort for those days, you know, and you know, it's something that like just kind of we've preached within the program and, and he was, you know, exemplary of that, you know, for sure, you know, like, I'll go to war with Nico any day of the week, you know, I mean, even when he's going back, that guy will do everything he can do to win a baseball game.
[00:37:25] Speaker A: How do you have those conversations early in the year with guys where they're not maybe having the types of, types of success that they want, where you're nursing them along?
[00:37:33] Speaker B: Yeah, well, like
[00:37:34] Speaker A: I said, I mean.
[00:37:35] Speaker B: Yeah, well, yeah, I mean that's really, like, how.
How we go about coaching, right, is to build the confidence in our guys, you know, I mean, you look at, like, Maslow's hierarchy of needs and just kind of, like, you get. You got to have, like, a base for them to go to war with. In sports psychology, you really look at, like, hey, what do you need to do to build their confidence? Right? Like, I'm certainly.
I'm certain I certainly have high standards for our guys and tough on them about certain things, you know, but it's not about yelling and screaming or, you know, putting them in a position where they're scared to mess up, right? Like, I want them to feel like it's okay to do that as long as it's not consistent, right? As long as they learn from. As long as they're trying to make an adjustment from it early on, it's tough. Like, if you don't. If they don't trust you yet or they don't know you very well, you know, it certainly was the case. Like, Nico, it was his first year with the program and whatnot, and we had several of those guys. It's hard if they're not open to it. Some guys just come in and be like, hey, I'm not going great. Like, what. What can I do? You know? Nico, I think, had been so successful his entire life.
He was probably on the other. Other end of the spectrum, right? Where it's like, I don't really need a whole lot of help from, you know, from some JC coach, you know, like, what do you know? You know, And.
And it just took time, you know, it just, like, it took him failing miserably to really have them come around and be like, okay, coach, like, what needs to happen? Well, I'm glad you asked, man. I'll meet you in the cage tomorrow. I was 12, you know, like, let's go do some hitting. Like, and then. And then that trust starts to get built up, and then they have a little success with it, and then it's kind of like, hey, now I can be a little bit more nitpicky about the things I want to talk to him about, right? And really try to, like, get him to where he wants to go. And, you know, a lot of it's just like, hey, here's what I'm seeing. Like, how do you think we need to attack that? You know? Like, I think X, Y, and Z. And he's like, hey, I. Like A, B, and C. It's like, okay, man. Like, there's a lot of ways to skin a cat. I'm not the end all, be all baseball, you know, And I'm certainly, like, open to do the things that you feel comfortable doing. As long as we're getting to where we want to go, right? I mean, we haven't. We all have an end goal. Like, as long as we're getting there, like, I'm happy. It doesn't matter how we. How we get there. You know, it doesn't have to be my way or the highway. Just it needs to be the same direction.
[00:39:53] Speaker A: How much of that then goes into approach the play, what they're looking for?
[00:39:58] Speaker B: You know, a lot. You know, I mean, that's really, like, we talk approach a lot with our guys and giving them.
Giving them, like, a plan to go to war with, like, depending on, like, what we're going to see, you know, I'm not so sold on the pitching at our level to where we got to, like, respect one pitch so much that we got to sit on one thing because, you know, it's like, hey, man, it's a plus fastball and a wipeout slider. It's kind of like he's got a good fastball and a good slider, but I think we can handle them all. And he's going to make some mistakes.
So we'll really be in, like, a fastball, like a chest approach, you know, 90% of the time, you know, and then we'll have to gear him up, like, hey, this guy can't throw a breaking ball for a strike, so it's pointless to sit, you know, to spit on it, you know, and so, like, a lot of it is just, like, within the training and like, every single day, like, hey, man, it's not just, like, feel good bp. It's like, hey, we're trying to attack this and how we want to set up either machines or coach pit, right? Like, we're always trying to put some sort of limitations on what. What it is. It's never just like, hey, get in the box and grip and rip and do X, Y, and Z. It's like, hey, man, like, we're gonna plan for this today. And then when they go into the game, they have again, they've built up that confidence that they're ready to go attack with that plan. And.
And, yeah, I mean, that's. That's where we start. You know, I said, I don't talk to freshmen. We do talk, like, approaches and, like, what needs to happen and pitches to go at. And, you know, we get 10 dates in the fall to play and it's kind of getting them their exposure. And, you know, every at bat, it's kind of like, hey, we're going to have a little feedback for you on, like, what you did or, you know, like, what's going good, what's going wrong? Like, hey, you probably should have won at this pitch. Or, like, what were you thinking here? Right? Just trying to get feedback from them so you can have those kinds of conversation so that the learning curve gets accelerated. You know, I said, you get 10 days to play. Back when I was playing junior college baseball, we were playing 27 and split squads, and, you know, like, let's bring that back. You know, got the best weather in California or best weather in the country. You know, like, let's play more.
[00:42:04] Speaker A: How different does that fall game day look than the spring game day? They similar?
[00:42:08] Speaker B: Well, yeah, now it. Now it's like, how many innings can you play, right? Like, let's. What time to get dark? You know, like, how early can we get out here? I mean, it's a long day, right? Because you want to get your guys the reps, right? You need to be on the field. You only get 10 of those dates. You know, it's obviously, we got to build them up to get to where we want them to be in terms of, like, health and, like, go compete and whatnot. But, yeah, then it's like, hey, we got to get this look and that look. And, you know, this year we're really young, so it's trying to figure out, like, hey, what's the best look at the lineup, right? Because when you enter squad, it's kind of like, hey, man, I like, I want the. I want it to be even, you know, I want a competitive inner squad to go with this thing. You get to those dates, it's kind of like, hey, we got this freshman. He's playing well, let's see what it looks like if he's leading off, or, hey, let's see what this guy looks like in the middle part of the lineup and can he handle it? And, like, you know, you know, right? So you got to take advantage of those dates.
But, yeah, I mean, it's. It's a long day. There's, you know, like, half a group shows up, half a group lead, you know, Right? Like, they kind of stagger. Like, you know, the only people there all day are the coaches. I should just say the only person there all day is me.
Right? Like, they come in at game time and they, my daughter's playing tonight. I gotta go. Right? But.
But, yeah, I mean, it's.
I wish we had more, would be a little less stressful on, on us and we could kind of get some better looks and you know, mix and match more and it's.
But yeah, I mean, like I said, I just wish we could play more. I mean, it's, it's a shame we don't. The high schools do whatever they want now. We got all these limitations, so we'll see if it comes back.
[00:43:49] Speaker A: How do you have that conversation with your middle of the order guys that maybe haven't hit there yet because they are going to get pitch completely different.
[00:43:56] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, like, I don't want to have them feel like they need to do more. Right. Like you're putting them there because they've been successful and then we just kind of want to see what it looks like. It's like, hey man, just keep going being you, you know, like we. I never want to take that away from our guys. Like, I really want them to be individuals and play the play how they need to play, you know, like, I don't want robots and guys that's just toe the line because they're told or, you know, I want guys that are, you know, like, have some confidence and, and have some opinions and you know, like our individuals, you know, and I want them to go perform how they need to perform and you know, like, hey, if it wasn't the right fit or if I feel like they're getting out outside of like what they typically do, like it's an easy conversation. Plus it doesn't matter yet, right? It's like, hey man, like that punch out means nothing, don't. Right, like, but this is why it happened, right? As opposed to like we're expecting you to drive in a bunch of balls and hit home run. Like, no, man, I want you to just keep going, hit balls hard and have the same approach you've been having because it's been good. We're just trying to get a look to see what the best flow is in the lineup for us to score runs, you know, and like it's. And they're not going to be there every game, right? Like we're going to mix and match. I mean, we got a couple guys that are, I don't want to say cemented in there, but you know, Marquez and Ryder back off of last year's group. Like, they're certainly going to be right there in the mix in the lineup. Right. And so those guys kind of know where they're at, but it's trying to Find the pieces around them to where they can drive in some runs and make sure they're getting pitches to hit and whatnot, you know, and then just making sure the lineup's not just, you know, a top heavy. And you know, I mean that was our success last year. We had nine guys that could all really hit, you know, more than that. But you know, every nine in the lineup, I mean they could all do damage and they were all good hitters. And it like, it's certainly like that's like the name of the game, scoring runs. It's not just hitting home runs. You know, like those things are fun but you know, I'd rather hit no home runs and score 15 a game then, you know, get a bunch of home runs and score five or six, you know, like,
[00:45:57] Speaker A: have you had to tweak your end game responsibilities at all over the years?
[00:46:02] Speaker B: Well, yes. Right. You know, so it just depends on.
Again, I've been fortunate with our staff, right? We've been consistent. Consistent. You had a chance to interview George, you know, like that guy pretty successful in the business world. Every once in a while he'll have to miss a game or whatever and then I have to step in, I'll call, call a game and you know, Dennis will run the offense to kind of free me up or whatever. So I don't say I get a break. But you know, so I'm not just, you know, so I'm not just so worn out that I can't make good decisions.
But no, I mean, I think for the most part I've been pretty consistent. I think, you know, when you're at the jc, like I said, I mean you're, you're the head coach and you're kind of, you know, most of us, it's like there's one full time guy and like you better cover it all and whatever happens with the assistance, right. Like you kind of give them duties and whatnot, you know. But the one thing that has been pretty consistent is I haven't had to go coach third base, right? Like that's, you know, I've had guys, I like to be in the dugout, I like to talk to them before they go to the, go to the plate.
You know, I think that's been, been paramount for us, you know, like, not that I mind coaching third. I mean, I've certainly done it plenty of times, but you know, I mean, just to be able to sit there and talk hitting with your guys before they go up there, you know, and then have a guy that's Coaching third. That makes really good decisions, you know, I mean, Dennis has been awesome for us in what, eight, nine years. I haven't seen a stop sign yet, so, you know, like, just keep spinning my big, you know, like, keep doing it. We'll see if they play catch. It's been working out thus far, you know, but yeah, no, it's.
It's been, you know, every. Every. It just depends on the staff and availability and, you know, like I said, I've been consistent with our group here. When I was at Fullerton, it was a lot of moving parts. At Sierra, like, we were pretty consistent, you know, years prior, it was just depending on who's there, you know, I've always taken some pride. Like, look, man, I might not be elite at one thing, but I'm good at everything, right? Like, I kind of understand I can do it all, you know, but certainly if you get someone that's an expert, like George or, you know, Dennis, and you get those guys, you let them run, man. You let them do their job and don't want to take away from them. You know, you just kind of give them input about, like, hey, this is kind of how I'd like to do it and give them some freedom to go coach it up, like, how they think is best.
[00:48:24] Speaker A: When does that combo happen with hitters in game for you? When they're up 4th, 5th? When do you try to have that conversation with them for them?
[00:48:31] Speaker B: Well, you know, I mean, a lot of times, you know, at our level, there's not like these extensive scouting reports, you know, like, maybe we saw a guy. We don't have all, like, you know, it's the trackman synergies not required. Right. So some schools do it. Like, we might have a book on a guy, you know, but we'll have a baseline approach for what we want to do. And then, you know, situation dependent or kind of like what it looks like, what they're trying to do to each one of our guys.
But so it really starts, you know, like, I'd like to think, you know, practice. That's where our preparation is. And then when they get to game day, like, it's kind of like, hey, go execute. And then my job is to kind of help them make some adjustments based off of what they're trying to do or how they're calling a game. And so, yeah, I try to have feedback with our guys or have conversations with them from the start. You know, I mean, not to inundate them with a ton of information, but just, you know, like, hey, this is kind of where he's at. He's struggling with, with this, like, hey, we're gonna do, right? Like just what's gonna help them be most successful and that, that at that. And you know, some guys you just don't have to talk to, right? Like they're, they're locked in and they know their job and you know, that'd be ideal if they were all there. But you know, like they're young, you know, you say, I mean, we have a ton of freshmen this year. We have a ton of freshmen playing, so it's like they're gonna need some, some guidance when the white lines go down. And you know, certainly like I said, I'd like to be there and help them be as successful as possible.
[00:49:54] Speaker A: That's the fun part too though, is having new guys.
[00:49:57] Speaker B: True. Well, we get, you know, half our roster, you know, every year. I mean, that's, that's the challenge of the jc, right? It's like every year it's like, hey man, half your roster is gone. I mean, really off of last year's team, we have two guys back.
So it's really a ton of new guys and it's trying to learn them and see the things that they're like I said that they do well and, and try to bring them along and kind of compete the way that, you know, Santa Ana College is known for competing and let them kind of be who they are and kind of see how they fill in with the group. And you know, I mean, that's, that is the fun part, you're right, is like getting those new guys and helping them like attain their goals and whatnot, you know, because they come in here, Santa Ana is not the last place they're going to play, right? So it's really like, how much better can we get them to get those opportunities that they want? You know, I mean, that's the fun part is like seeing those guys achieve, right? Like compete, achieve and then go have success beyond. And then, you know, and then when they come back to see you, you know, or they call you or like shoot you a text, like that's, I mean, that's about as rewarding as it gets, right? You know, like, you know, we won in 2013. We had a left hander, name was Jeff Kern, pitch for me at full college, right? We wanted 26. I get an email, it's like, you know, a Department of Transportation. I was like, what?
I didn't know I was getting a ticket, you know, but like he's, he's A lawyer for the Department of Transportation, like, shot me an email. Hey, congrats, coach. I got, you know, two kids. I'm down in Sandy. I was like, oh, man, like, how incredible is this, right? To get that, that like a tech or like I said, an email or text from a guy or, you know, like, those things are, like, so rewarding, right? It like, puts everything in place for, like, why you sacrifice time with the family and all those sorts of things.
But yeah, I mean, and then, and then emails from parents that they're so thankful for the things you did, you know, like, hey, man, you were hard on my kid. I was like, well, yeah, you know, like, he needed it though, you know, and now he's gonna be like an adult when he leaves here. He's not like a boy that had everything given to him. Now he's had to earn some stuff and saw that, you know, like, life's not simple for you. And, and yeah, you're gonna make decisions and there's gonna be repercussions or there's gonna be an outcome and you're gonna have to deal with that when it shows up, like, good or bad. Right. You know, so, you know, I mean, that's, like I said that those things make it so rewarding, you know, and that's certainly, certainly like, yeah, the fun part. You're right.
[00:52:27] Speaker A: Any similarities between the 26 team and the 23 team?
[00:52:31] Speaker B: Yeah, both really hit.
I mean, really hit. I think in our, you know, in California, I think you get there. Like, we're not used to playing those four team double elimination tournaments. You know, I think the offense is always, you know, like, if you can hit, you're gonna have like a fighting chance because obviously we lost a game. We had to play five games in three days. Right. You know, you get to those points, it's just like, who's throwing for you, right? Like, who's pitching? You know, like, probably right. Like, you just don't know. And it's just like, hey, man, like, you might get a gym to come out there and throw the game of his life or whatnot, but, you know, more times than not, like, you can hit like that guy's. You're gonna, you're gonna be. You're gonna score some runs and score them early and often, and then you're in the driver's seat and then it's just about hanging on. So. Yeah, but, you know, I mean, both those teams hit.
Yeah. I mean, older, like an older group. You know, last year's group, you know, like, we didn't really have any true freshmen that made major impacts, right? Or that were like key components to the run. Like, certainly they made impacts and contributed, but like we were just an older group, you know, to where it's like, hey, we had second and third year guys up and down the lineup. They had been through it. Like they were big and strong and fast and had an idea of what we wanted to do and how to play. And you know, even the new guys that came in, you know, like we had some third year guys that kind of were like, hey man, this is how we do stuff, you know, like, I know you're from wherever, but you know, like you're not the best guy on the field, just FYI, right? And so those guys kind of fell in line. You know what, having that makes your job a lot easier as a coach, right? It's like, hey, I don't have to drive that train all the time. Like those guys can kind of be like, hey man, put their arm around a dude and just say, hey, this is the way it's going to be and this is how we're going to do it and you know, and like fall in line, buddy, you know, if you will, you know, or get it, get in line with, with, with how we want to do stuff, you know. So certainly, yeah, I mean those were probably the biggest similarities, you know.
[00:54:32] Speaker A: How has sending guys on changed?
[00:54:36] Speaker B: Yeah, it's significantly more difficult, you know. I heard you. I'm blanking on his name, I think. The D2JC coach. Yep.
He just.
[00:54:46] Speaker A: Avalon.
[00:54:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, like, I think he touched on, I mean, yeah, it's, it's getting tougher, you know, I mean, I think, you know, like they're at the four year level. You have to be perfect, right? Like, we need this fit, you know, and so it's, it's not like what it was where it's like, oh, that guy's good, like we're gonna bring him in, you know, it's really like, hey, we need a left handed, hidden left side infielder. Not like, hey, like this guy can really play. We'll figure it out, you know. And so I think that they're, you know, just with the roster limitations and, and whatnot, it's getting more difficult, you know. And he, and he said nail on the head, like, yeah, like you get an offer, you better consider it, do some research and find out. Like, really, what if it's a fit for you, if you like it, you know, why you don't like it, you know, and like the pros and cons and kind of weigh your options and kind of see where it lands. But, yeah, no, it's getting harder and harder to move guys, you know, even off, like, last year's roster, I mean, we were pretty good, you know, and it's like, I'm not sure that's the right fit for us. Like, all right.
Yeah. Yeah,
[00:55:55] Speaker A: he's a
[00:55:56] Speaker B: winner.
You might want to think about it. Yeah. Especially if you haven't been winning recently. You might just say, hey, I'm just going to go get the best guys. You know, I had, like, from the best programs. Right. And certainly, like, if you're. If you're a school in this area or like any area and you haven't been having a ton of success, like, you probably got the best JC conference in California in your backyard. Like, I'd go cherry pick one guy off everybody's team and put together a pretty good roster. You know, I'd look. That's right. Start.
[00:56:26] Speaker A: Have you had to adjust how you communicate with parents also over the years?
It's so
[00:56:31] Speaker B: there.
Like, I don't really talk to parents, you know, like, our guys come in.
[00:56:36] Speaker A: That seems like a common theme for. For the California G Coast.
[00:56:40] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, like, we'll bring, you know, I'll have parents come in. They get like, I'm happy to talk to them, you know, like, they want to contribute somewhere. Like, coach, I'd love to do this for you, this, that, or, hey, I need directions there or, like, what hotel you guys. Right. Like, no problem, you know, but your son is now 18 or he's an adult, like, legal. I can't tell you what's going on, you know, I mean, there's some violations there for me, I think. FERPA violation. Right. Like, I can't have that conversation with you, and I'm not that scary. Your son's more than welcome to come into my office and we'll have, like, an adult conversation. And like, hey, this is what you got to do if you want to get on the field. And, you know, this is the role we have for you. And, like, certainly, like, hey, man, like, we have some space for you to contribute in this way if you want that to expand, be successful in that role and show us every day that you should be getting more time, you know.
Yeah, I'm open to our guys coming in and talking, but, yeah, the parents, like, no, I'm not going to talk. Playing time with them, you know, like, that's, you know, but it's a growing thing, too. Like, you want these guys to like, be able to advocate for themselves, you know, like, you know, if they had a job at, I don't know, like IBM or, you know, Apple or something, is mommy going to call up the CEO and be like, hey, my son needs a raise?
Like, no, man, like, you're on your own, chief. Like, you got to figure this out. So, yeah, you know, I have young kids, so it's certainly I try to make them have to go advocate for themselves. An 18 year old can do that as well.
[00:58:06] Speaker A: How old are your kids?
[00:58:08] Speaker B: I got a 9 year old that's turning 10 and a 4 year old.
[00:58:12] Speaker A: So you're right in it now.
[00:58:13] Speaker B: I'm in the thick of it. No, it's kind of crazy, you know, like we, you know, our run this year really started, like, obviously we were successful. 23, 24. We go back, you know, fall 24.
My son was diagnosed with leukemia. So I kind of step away from, from the team for a little bit.
You know, Dennis and George and Pop, like those guys, you know, they held it down, right? Like I said, the consistency within coaches, like, those guys took over. They were running the team forward while I was kind of getting, getting my life ironed out or whatnot.
And then, you know, kind of got back to us, half in, half out. It was coaching, you know, but like the recruiting kind of like I had to step away from that. Like, I wasn't as active as I typically am. And then you start seeing like, guys that you've built like relationships with over the years, you know, and just be that, know me, you know, a little bit more personal relationship, like, hey, I got a guy for you. Or this, that and the other. And that's how Nico landed here, right? It was like, hey, got a guy, he's leaving, you know, And I, he was like, I was like, okay, like, I'll give it a run. And you know, it's between us and Salt Lake City Community College, you know, I said, hey, man, it's cold out There, you know, 90 plus Southern California, you know, like, I had to go with, I had to go to war with what I had. But, you know, I mean, it was really like just one of those things. Like this thing got built up. Like, you know, we had some injuries in 25, so all those guys were kind of back and they wouldn't have been.
And then you get this influx of. Because some guys, you know, buddies of mine were like, hey, I got a guy that can help you out with this, that and the other. And, and certainly like, at least get me in touch so I could, you know, because they, they knew I had to step away a little bit, you know. And like, certainly that like built up the whole thing, but. But yeah, so I'm always like eternally grateful at 2016. I talk to him all the time about it, you know, like, hey, you think life is rough? Like, imagine doing this. But man, like he's a seven year old kid and he doesn't get to play baseball today, you know. And so that really, that message went well and they were awesome. Like, they always ask and he'd be around, like when he could be that to sit on left field because, you know, he can't be around people. So him, my wife are like staring, you know, like looking, watching under the windscreen in left field or whatever. You know, it was always awesome. And so, yeah, I mean, but that's really how that thing got built up and kind of brought us together and kind of put things in perspective for me and, you know, kind of made me maybe a little bit more low key, you know, Like I said, I'm fairly intense and I love competing in those sorts of things. It kind of like ease me up a little bit.
Probably was like, freed up the players a little bit to like, you know, not be so tense and whatnot. And like, man, they played like it for sure.
[01:00:53] Speaker A: Everything health wise is good now.
[01:00:55] Speaker B: Good, good. Like he'll be done. He's ringing the bell here. January 4th. I'm excited, you know.
[01:01:02] Speaker A: Love it.
[01:01:03] Speaker B: Yeah, Couldn't be happier, you know, like he's doing like back in school, like having success, got a couple friends, you know, that was the biggest part, right? Like you're out of school for a couple years, man, like, got no friends and not playing. You know, he's, the other day, he's like, or dad, I want to play baseball again. I was like, awesome, man. If you want, you know, like, we'll see how that plays out.
He's a couple years out of it, but, you know, but yeah, everything's good, you know. But it's just like, like for me, you know, that work life balance, you know, before I don't think I had it, you know, I was really just all in coaching, like, and now it's kind of like, hey man, like, I go home, I can free up some of these young guys to do some more stuff, like.
And so it's been good. But yeah, I'm excited for him. And it's like I said, as appreciative as I can be for our staff like, kind of taking over and, and really, you know, my wife is an angel for dealing with me, you know, but you know, like, like the sacrifices that she made and whatnot, you know, like, and I should say this, and I always try to.
I'd be remiss if I didn't thank all our coaches wives for allowing them to the time out here because it's a lot of time right away from their families, you know, so I'm always thankful for them. And you know, like I said, I didn't want to miss an opportunity to say that.
[01:02:20] Speaker A: Well, it's made. Life has a funny way of reminding you when you need to try to take some time and slow down.
[01:02:26] Speaker B: Whether
[01:02:27] Speaker A: you listen to it or not, it's telling you, but whether you listen, that's the.
[01:02:31] Speaker B: Yeah, well, that one was pretty. Pretty abrupt. So, yeah, hard to miss that one.
[01:02:36] Speaker A: We talk about fail forward moments. Do you have any. Do you have any fail forward moments? Other ones could be. Professionally, personally? Well,
[01:02:43] Speaker B: yeah, like my whole life, right. Like, I've all, like, it's just taken on challenges and constantly failing, you know, like, it's just something I've always been driven by, like, by the. By challenging myself, you know, like, you know, is that like I said, at Fullerton you get this job, like, it's kind of, you know, when you talk about like Orange county, it's. It's not the sexiest name in the zip code or whatnot, you know, and so it's kind of like, hey, man, like, this is, this is difficult. Like, this is going to be hard, you know.
You know, I mean, I've been, you know, like, even moving down to Southern California, you know, it's kind of like, hey, here I am. I'm leaving a championship program. I don't have any ties. Like, where do you go, right? Do you say, like, hey, I'm gonna bet on myself and kind of go to like the worst place and in the toughest, like, conference and see if we can turn that around and see if I'm really good. And we struggle. Like, don't get me wrong, like, we certainly struggle. I remember my first, my first trip to go, like, at first, like going to watch a high school game, right? Like, I don't know where I'm going, go there, introduce myself to the coach, blah, blah, blah. You know, he's like, where are you from again? I said, fullerton College. Don't waste your time. I'll never send anyone there. Like, that was like verbatim. And I was just like, man, what did I get myself into. I was like, I was at a place like, we were rolling. Like, it was.
We were getting everybody we wanted. And then I come down here, and it's like, this is. Well, this is an uphill challenge, you know, and we. We were bad. We certainly were not very good.
Took some time, like, you know, change kind of the perception of the place. Like, hey, we're winning. We're doing these things. And again, like, I didn't have kids at that point, so it's kind of like, hey, man. Like, I was out recruiting sun up to sundown and coaching, and my wife was working nights in the hospital, and so it wasn't like we were going to see each other anyways, you know, and so it was like, one of those deals is. I just was all, like, committed. I mean, I had a 1986 Honda CRX that was held together with tape, and I was driving that thing all over Southern California to try to find, like, some players to come in. And. And it worked out. And, you know, but. But, yeah, I mean, just, you know, like, you always have those moments or those, like, opportunities to make decisions, you know, like, you bet on yourself, you know, or do you kind of go like, hey, all these essential assistants who went to go, like, coach with Nick Saban, it's kind of like, hey, I struggled. I go to the best possible place I can. Like, we win, get another job. And I just went the other route, which is, you know, really like, a narrative of my life. Right. Like, I'm gonna go to the most difficult spot I can go to and see what happens and see if I'm good at what I. What I do. And, yeah, been extremely lucky with that and successful. And, you know, now we're here and having this conversation.
[01:05:29] Speaker A: How do you stay patient in that process as a coach? Because it's not easy. Not everybody can do that.
[01:05:35] Speaker B: Yeah, well, again, like I said, I like that. Like, I thrive in those sorts of situations, you know, to where it's.
This is difficult. Like, if it was easy, everyone would. You know, all the other coaches that have been here would have been able to do it. Like what? Like, you know, how much are they willing to sacrifice to get to where they want to go? Right. Like, there's always a penance to pay for.
For getting somewhere. Right. And I just, you know, for me, it was. It wasn't like I was impatient. I mean, it was frustrating to not win. Right. And it was frustrating to recruit and have everyone tell you no. But then it just takes one or two breakthroughs. And get one or two guys and then kind of like built, start building up a program right? Where, you know, it's like, hey, this guy's been with us for two years, you know, like we got a bunch the second, third year guys. And now all of a sudden it's like, hey, we're pretty good. Or like, you know, that 2013 team. Like, I recruited a kid who's out of Crescenta Valley, not close, by the way, like an hour or so away recruit. I, I coached him like in like a travel ball thing. And he goes down to Howard College in Texas and he calls me in December. He's like, I hate it. I was like, yeah, man, most California guys do hate Texas, you know, like, you know, you got to drive through, you know, grain of salt. You got to drive three hours to the, you know, to see your first stoplight. Like, I get it, man. Like, come on back. We got a place for you, you know, two way, All American. Like, yeah, dominant player, you know, I mean, like just those things help like kind of get the program up and running. Then once you start having success, like, it just kind of like snowballs, right? It just keeps going. And, and certainly, like, you know, like I said, like, it wasn't anything I did to deal with it. It was just kind of like, I like that environment. I like the struggle. Like, that's like nothing's ever good enough, right? Like, what, what, what, what can we do to get better, you know, like, how hard can we make this on ourselves to try to like, really get to the peak of our powers?
[01:07:40] Speaker A: Love it.
You said your workouts have changed.
[01:07:44] Speaker B: My workouts?
[01:07:45] Speaker A: Yeah, your workouts.
[01:07:47] Speaker B: I don't have like, you know, eight hours on the weekend.
[01:07:49] Speaker A: I know, but. Because I'm always intrigued because I think as you get older, things change. So I'm always intrigued by what people are doing to make it work. Because obviously you're still in good shape. So
[01:07:59] Speaker B: I'm
[01:08:00] Speaker A: always intrigued by how people actually make it work.
[01:08:02] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I wake up every morning at 4am and get up, I'll drink coffee.
You know, my wife, my. Well, you don't know, but my wife's family is from Japan. We go back there every year. So I've been studying, trying to learn Japanese just so I, you know, I don't need to just look at her with an open mouth and be like, what they say.
I can like ask where the bathroom is or like a drink or something to eat, right? So I kind of spend like, you know, between like 4 and 5 o' clock, kind of drinking coffee, waking up, kind of getting my body moving.
Try not to look at my phone at all. Right. Like beforehand, like I always try to make like a point to, hey, I wake up and then it's like on to doing something.
And then I'll be in the, I'll be in the.
I have a gym in my garage, so I'll work out 5 to 6:30. My son wakes up at 6:30. I make breakfast and then get my daughter up and get her up and running. Whatever. Drop him off at 6. School. But yeah, no, my, my workouts, like. Yeah, I mean it's early. If it doesn't happen before sunrise, like, it's probably not gonna happen.
Also, I, I enjoy working out in the morning. Kind of gets me going, you know,
[01:09:14] Speaker A: Same way it's gotta be in the morning or it won't get done.
[01:09:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. You know, because then just life happens, you know, and so it just starts to become a little bit more daunting to try to get that done. So. Yeah, no, I wake up super early. Like, you know, I meal prep everything. You know, Sunday is like, hey man, I cook and I got food.
[01:09:31] Speaker A: What's your go to on meal prep?
[01:09:34] Speaker B: Well, you know, like a lot of chicken.
[01:09:36] Speaker A: Yep.
[01:09:37] Speaker B: You know, like I'll barbecue up pounds of chicken and then I'll mix in like, you know, a lot of fish. Like, I try to eat some fish, you know, just some healthy fats. But yeah, I mean, you know, you have chicken, rice and you know, broccoli with some sugar free something or whatever to try to make it taste a little better.
Yeah, yeah, you got, yeah, you want to, you want to meal prep and be fit. When you get as old as I am, right. You start, you start sacrificing sugar, you know, just.
And I measure every, like, I'm like kind of neurotic about it,
[01:10:14] Speaker A: you know, you're doing the whole thing then.
[01:10:15] Speaker B: Yeah, this staff makes fun of me religiously. It's
[01:10:18] Speaker A: all right. It works.
[01:10:19] Speaker B: Yeah,
[01:10:20] Speaker A: it works. Yeah.
[01:10:21] Speaker B: You know, all the guys make fun. I was like, yeah, come talk to me when you're 50, man. Let me know what you look like, you know, Then we have a real conversation about like, what if, if what I'm doing is wrong.
[01:10:32] Speaker A: I love the Far east culture, by the way.
[01:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah,
[01:10:35] Speaker A: it's been awesome. I'm enamored with the Far east culture. I love it.
[01:10:39] Speaker B: It's fun. Like, we, we, we've had like a Japanese guy on our team every year for the past three. Like, certainly want to keep Bringing them. I think it's a great invite, great learning experience for our guys. I think it's awesome for them, you know, like. Yeah, I mean, they love baseball. There's some pretty good players, you know, like, certainly, you know, but I think more of that is just kind of exposing our guys. Like, when are they gonna, you know, the chance of them playing with a Japanese guy, it's like, slim to none. Right? You know, and like, so he's embedded. Like, he lives in an apartment with some of the other out of area guys, you know, like, he. It's awesome, you know, I know some of our guys, like, go out, going out to see him, you know, like. Or did go out last summer, whatnot, you know, so it's. I think that, like, right. Aside from baseball and this, but just like being exposed to that and kind of like, put them. Putting them in position to make. Make a friend, like, outside of the country and an opportunity to go to Japan if you ever. If you ever do have one. I say this to everyone. You should go.
[01:11:40] Speaker A: It's
[01:11:40] Speaker B: unbelievable. Yeah, yeah. No meal prepping there.
Eat it all.
[01:11:47] Speaker A: What are some final thoughts before I let you go?
[01:11:51] Speaker B: Nothing, you know, like, I just want to say, like, hey, first off, like, I want to thank my wife for allowing me to, like, do. Do the things that.
That I need to do to get the program where it is. I want to make sure you, like, obviously thank the assistants. You know, I've said it multiple times, but, you know, George Carlejo, Don Popovich, Dennis Gerbasi, you know, James. James Williams, Evan Leibel, Adrian Garcia, you know, at Stepway, he had another kid, you know, but those guys, you know, and then like, Tim Jones, Chris Stevenson, like, all the guys that have kind of like, made this happen, right, because it wasn't like overnight. It was a culmination of all their work.
Certainly the guys, like, they kind of like, when I moved down south, like Mike Cosgrove, Charles Chapman, you know, like, those guys were extremely influential. Influential and like, extremely, like, open with, like, hey, go here. Do they, like, kind of show me the ropes of Southern California, right? Like, it, like Northern and Southern California are two different worlds. I mean, it's like complete opposites, right? And so, I mean, really, that's it, man. Just like, to really thank everybody that's given me.
Giving me guidance along the way and, you know, allowed this stuff to happen and.
Yeah, you know, our administration's been extremely, extremely supportive along the way. You know, it's a tough place to win, you know, and.
And they've certainly made it as easy as they can, you know, so that's, that's really it. Just to thank everyone and obviously all the former dons that helped build the program, you know, that really, like, put us in these positions. And I certainly, like, relay that to them when they, when they call and text and come by. It's just like, hey, man, that was, that's you, you know, like,
[01:13:38] Speaker A: appreciate your time, sir. Thank you very much. Yeah,
[01:13:39] Speaker B: I appreciate you. Thank you so much. You have a good one.
[01:13:43] Speaker A: Congrats to Coach Nillis and the entire Santa Ana program on the well deserved honor. Always a challenge to capture the 3C 2A championship. I'm sure that Coach Sneddon is smiling down on that run that the dons are having.
Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale and Matt west in the ABC office for all the help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via email r brownleebca.org Twitter, Instagram or TikTok coachbrabca or direct message me via MyABCA app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off for the American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks and leave it better for those behind you.
Yep. Wait for another day and the world will always return and your love is never for yearning and you know that ways Wait for another D.
