Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the abca's podcast. I'm your host ryan brownlee.
This episode is brought to you by Rapsodo Baseball. Great coaching starts with knowing what to work on next.
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Next up on the ABCA podcast is ABCA ATEC, NCAA Division 3 Coach of the Year Denison University's Mike Deegan. Deegan led the Big Red to a remarkable 513 record and the first NCAA Division III national championship in school history.
Since taking over the program in 2013, Degan Deegan has transformed Denison baseball, leading the Big Red to six NCAC regular season championships, seven conference tournament titles and eight NCAA Regional appearances. With back to back College World Series appearances, Deegan's also become the winningest coach in program history with more than 400 victories and a winning percentage above.730.
Before arriving at Denison, Deegan spent nine seasons at his alma mater, Marietta College where he helped the Pioneers capture three NCAA Division III national championships. Let's welcome Mike Deegan to the podcast.
All right here with Mike Deegan, ABCA a Tech Division 3 coach of the year, Denison University, but first national championship. The IX athletic department had four last year, 51 and three. Magical season. So, Coach Deegan, thanks for jumping on with me.
[00:03:28] Speaker B: Appreciate you, Ryan. Thank you.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: Hey, what about your time at Marietta? Taught you how to win championships?
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Oh, I mean, I think the time in Marietta, just in general, it's like how to run a high level organization like you're. You get a peek behind the curtain from as a player playing for Coach Salley, who was, you know, a major player in those early ABCA days as well. Like, he was very prominent in the rules committee and things like that. So you kind of had. I always say Coach Shally was like a CEO. I think he could run any, any business. He was that kind of person, that kind of leader.
So you get to see that as a player, then you get behind the curtain as a coach at an even another level with, with Brian Brewer.
So I think all those repetitions teach you and show you how to be a part of something special like that and provide a bit of a blueprint. Now, you know, we can get into it more.
I also think what we did there wouldn't work here, you know, and it took me a little while to figure that out.
So, yeah, you take the blocking and tackling of running an elite organization and then try to bring that to Denison and then adapt to our circumstances in our environment.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: What are the differences with that? With. And I mean, that speaks volumes because every school is going to be different and what makes them successful?
[00:04:39] Speaker B: You know, I just think one, if you just look at coaches in general, like, you know, like the Belichicks, like, you know, for a while there when he was cranking in New England, a lot of the coordinators would go off and they wouldn't always do great in the head coaching role. And I think what a lot of those coaches were trying to do, they were just trying to mirror what was done in New England at different places. So each environment's a little bit different. I mean, Denison is, is a national institution academically, and there's some constraints we have with that. Marietta just, there's such a community and a culture of baseball there that wasn't present here.
Our athletes are a little bit different. Our student athletes are different here. So I don't think it's anything like crazy. I just think that we can get blinded if we think, oh, this worked there. I'm gonna do the exact same thing here. And we don't pay attention to those nuances. We don't listen to, to the student athletes, we don't listen to the coaches. We don't listen to veteran coaches within these walls, these walls of Denison and learn from them and just be so bullheaded. And hey, we won three national championships there. Follow me. This is how we're going to do it. And if I were being honest, I probably had a little bit of that in me early that I had to learn during my time here.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: And you've checked a lot of firsts off since you've been there at Denison?
Yeah, there's a lot of firsts since you've been there.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: Yeah, no doubt. I mean, I think the there, there's obviously a proud baseball tradition. Like as far as you talk to our alums prior to my arrival, there are still people who love baseball dearly and have been very supportive. There was, you know, when we took over, there was a bit of a down, a downward tilt. We had never won a conference championship. We'd never been to a national tournament. And so you're kind of pushing the rock uphill early. But there was a care level though, from, from our alumni. There was a support from our, you know, university. You know, if you look around our campus, you mentioned the four national championships last year. People were winning and they wanted us to win. They just didn't quite, they didn't quite know how to do it in baseball. And I think that's where I had a little bit of expertise, you know, and once again, like I said, we couldn't do it exactly like Marietta, but I did have the actual eyeballs on what winning at the highest level of Division 3 looks like. And that's an invaluable experience.
[00:06:48] Speaker A: How do you raise those expectations at a place that maybe hasn't done. Done things like that?
[00:06:53] Speaker B: You know, I do think, you know, a vision and articulating that vision is where it begins.
You know, I think, you know, when we first started, I was sitting those recruiting meetings and I would say, hey, we're going to compete on a national level and provide this opportunity to get a world class degree.
And you know, 13, 14 years ago, that sounded crazy. I think people were kind of rolling their eyes. But to, to me it just seemed like, wait a minute, like we can look all over the whole country for players.
We have success here. It's a great institution. We have a president who supports this. Like, I don't know, to me it didn't seem that daunting. But I think you, we, you know, I would say we sang it into existence, like this is what we're going to do. Then I think you put some values and principles behind it that are to keep you within the guardrails. Because I think we could all, without some checks and balances, go rogue, you know, but we, I think just naming that shared purpose, that shared vision and, and then just rolling your sleeves up and then getting to work. I don't know if there's any other way to articulate it other than that.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Coach Romack did a phenomenal job on the podcast, by the way.
[00:07:57] Speaker B: Oh, he's unreal. Unreal. He's. He's a superstar.
[00:08:00] Speaker A: You know, talk about your guys relationship and how that's grown over the years.
[00:08:04] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, you know, he used to work when I was. I would run the camps at Marietta and he would come and work the camps and our overnight camps, like all those times, like you can. I've said this in other forums, but if you want to talk about a hiring process, like, working with someone is to me the holy grail. I almost, I don't know, interviews to me, like there's a place for them, but I don't know, there's nothing like working elbow to elbow with someone. And as silly as it sounds like camps are very important to me.
And there's like the ability to work on, to think on your feet. There's an ability to see how someone teaches. There's the ability to see how someone connects with kids and parents. And I got all that exposure to Ryan with no idea where this was going to go. He was, when I got this job, he was working as an assistant at Ohio Valley College or Ohio Christian.
And he was working there and said, hey, he wants to try to get into this a little bit deeper.
So he came and he worked as a volunteer. Actually lived with me and my wife at the time, our two kids. And so my story is that at the time we'd get the kids down to bed and then Ryan and I would sit up on my back porch and just really kind of map this out on how we wanted to build this. So he was there from the very beginning, went on and pursued some things, became a full time assistant pitching coach at Dayton and then Ohio University. And then he got married and they were living in Columbus. And I said, hey, you know, my former assistant Kyle Lindquist had just moved on, who's now at South Carolina. It's kind of cool.
But he had moved on. And I said, hey, you know, I'd love to have you back. And you know, he came Back. And as you know, Ryan from that interaction and many other interacts with him, he could coach anywhere in the country at any level. He's, he's, he's that good. And you know, myself, our institution and most importantly, our players are so lucky to have him.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: Is that tip for a young assistant coach out there that's working. Like everybody's watching. Like people are paying attention to, like how. Especially in a camp setting, like how you handle yourself in a camp setting,
[00:10:04] Speaker B: camps, recruiting. And it sounds a little bit judgmental and I hate to.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: It's not though. It's not,
[00:10:10] Speaker B: No. I hate to come off that way, but even I was at an event this weekend and just, just like your interactions with people, like, it's, it's such a competitive market, you know, just in general. So I think you have to just be aware. And by be aware, it's, it's. Be aware that you're working on yourself and that you're showing up how you want to show up. But those small interactions can just go a long way. You know, I think. And I think the things that I'm, I'm attracted to are, you know, humility and people who have a growth mindset. And, you know, it's funny, you know, you're at an event and you see that the canal screen needs put out and a coach who's not working event goes and grabs it. You're like, oh, that's something that I like. Right.
Anyways, but like I said, it's judgmental. But I think unfortunately in this business we do a lot of that from recruiting.
It's evaluation, maybe not judging. But all those interactions matter so much because then when something does come open or as you know better than anyone, we're all just so connected. I just feel probably I'm one phone call away from just about anybody in this, in this profession. And I don't say that arrogantly. It's just this how this thing works.
So how you come off there, you know, and then when you need something, you remember how they made you feel in that environment. And so what kind of endorsement you're going to get is a lot depending on that interaction, that very, very small interaction. Sometimes
[00:11:31] Speaker A: do you feel like Denison's a perfect fit because it's a smaller school, but you got Columbus right there.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Yeah. I think for myself and for our family, yes. And then I think from an institutional standpoint, you know, a lot of small colleges are in areas that aren't as populated and as dense as ours. And I just feel for us we have, like, the Granville Village, which is a little utopia. It's a great place to raise kids, but it doesn't feel like realities to me sometimes. But then we have, like, the Newark area, the Newark Keith area around there, where that's a little bit more, you know, maybe more what I'm accustomed to or how I grew up. And then Columbus. The airports, depending. If you talk to our president is 20 minutes away, but it's more like 30. But, you know, it keeps getting closer and closer in his stories. But we're, you know, we're 20 to 30 minutes away from the airport in Columbus. So you have, like, just these. The safety, the beautifulness of the village, Newark Heath, that's a little bit more like reality. And then Columbus, which can, you know, open up any doors that you. That you really want. So I think all those things make it a great place to raise kids, to go to school.
And it is. It is, Ryan. It's a special place.
[00:12:38] Speaker A: Shout out to Matt Taney, by the way. He helped me a lot when I got to Western Illinois.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: Great. Yeah.
[00:12:43] Speaker A: My oversight. So shout out Matt, if you're listening, you and Julia, great people. Phenomenal person.
[00:12:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Great. Yeah, he's. He's in his second year, and he's making his imprint on. On the. On the campus and our department already.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: You know, Coach Roman, I talked about how you guys maximize your roster, because not everybody does that. I feel like you guys do a phenomenal job of maximizing roster pitching and. And hitting wise.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I think, you know, if, you know, I think earlier in my career, too, you, you know, you may lock in on, like, a certain group, and it's tough to deviate from that playgroup sometimes. But I think if you, you know, these are stories as old as time in baseball, but if you're really good up the spine, you know, your catcher, your shortstop, your center fielder, that's a great place to start.
And then you can get a little creative around that, and you realize that then from there you're just trying to leverage people's strengths. So maybe there's a bat in there that struggles a little bit defensively or you think will struggle a little defensively. Maybe you can play them a little bit deeper, you can position them in a little different way to give them some success. Other guys are fast, but maybe lack that hit tool. And so maybe that's our day that we try to leverage some more small ball or, you know, think about how we're going to win the game with more pitching and defense. But yeah, we're trying to get as many guys, you know, opportunities to show what they can do and help us impact winning. And I guess the biggest thing too, it's not. These aren't gifts that we pass out. It's like, how can that. How can your special help us, our collective team, achieve their goals? And so that's where we are right now in the fall. We play a ton in the fall. And I really try to emphasize to our guys, like, you know, bring out what you can do in a very organic, natural way. And then we're going to try to find ways as a program to leverage that skill set. But it's not easy to do. Like I said, it's not a gift. But we are constantly on the alert to see, hey, this pitcher's got a plus slider. Maybe we can use them in this situation and throw the snot out of that thing. Even though the fastball is not where it needs to be yet. Hey, this guy's got two seam run. We think this is the matchup or this guy here. So I think we're always looking at how we can best utilize our roster and put us in the best position to have success.
[00:14:56] Speaker A: And Ryan said, you do a great job of not taking your foot off the gas as far as improving every day. You know, Kaizen, like, again, improving every day.
[00:15:06] Speaker B: It's a gift and a curse. And. And as I get older, I try to watch it a little bit.
I think I'm wired to. I think I'm wired and probably from. Maybe I'm not proud of saying this, but maybe like a place of fear, like, of like I. I'm well aware that everything could crumble really quickly. Like, I'm. I'm well aware that, that I'm well aware of inputs and outputs. Like, if you're not putting things in, you're not going to get the outputs you want.
And so that can become a bit of an obsession at times. And so you have to figure out how to utilize that obsession. Right. But also knowing that it's not healthy to always be driven that way. So I don't want our players to be like me all the time. But I do know that for us to be successful, we want to. We know that growth happens slightly outside of our comfort zone. We do know that. I think. I think research, you know, from grit, all those things, you can see that outside of our comfort zone is where growth occurs. We don't want to be in the panic zone. Like we're living in this place of, you know, fear and discomfort all the time. But outside that comfort zone is where we want to be. So I think as I've gotten older, I'm trying to. I try to be more strategic on how we get there. Right. But the other thing to Ryan with that Kaizen is it's also just what I love. Like, I don't.
If you're not growing, I feel like you're dying a little bit, you know, and to me, it's just fun. And that's one of the perks of college baseball. Small, small college baseball is we can learn and implement really quick. Our friends and our colleagues in pro baseball, they gotta, you know, they have to run that through a lot of filters before they can implement. Well, for us, we can change really quickly. We can try to be better really quickly. And to me, that's what makes this job so, so fun.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: What have you changed personally?
Cause I feel like you and I are kindred spirits on that, on adding stuff and layering stuff on personally and professionally.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I think a lot. You know, I just, I, you know, I said some of these already, you know, not to be redundant, but. Yeah, just the way we approach trying to win here, you know, I think just.
I think just trying to move probably from a coach centric model to a player centric model, that's probably the biggest difference. And I say that not in. I think when I first got here, we had. We had to be that way. I shouldn't say we had to. We were trying to change a culture. We were trying to show what winning looks like.
And I hate using the word I, but in this case, I was probably the only one who really knew what that looked like within our walls. So I did drive a lot. And the flip became when the players started really owning this thing. And I would say in the last three or four years, they hold us accountable more than we hold them accountable. Or at least I feel that pressure. You know, I missed on a practice plan the other day. I missed. You know, I still work a lot on paper and pencil, and then I move it to the computer. And a lot of times, Rome will do the good. The good practice playing comes from his desk. The one that we're in a pinch comes from mine. And I missed three or four names. And I really felt. Felt like I let everyone down. Players, coaches, alumni. Because, you know, because of Rome, because of Daniel Perry, because of Nick Marshall. They, like, I have this now where, like, I have very few, like, responsibilities, but they're important. And when I miss them, I feel sick about it.
But Anyways, I felt like I let people down. So I would say the biggest difference is moving from. From coach led to player led in the last four or five years.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: How do you address that as a coach? I think we all. We all make mistakes. So how do you address that? Like, hey, I screwed that up.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: I own them. I. I own them. And I try to do it not. I try to do it in a authentic way, too. I think we all have had. The coach says, well, you guys think, but that's my fault because I'm the one who coached. You know, that falls flat. I just say, you know, crap, guys, like, look at this. Like, I. We hold you to a really high standard. And this, in this case, like, this is. This was all on me, right? Like, this is. I messed this one up.
Yeah. So I really look for ways to put us in the same light as the players. I want our guys to know that the enemy is never in our dugout. Like, it's never going to be coming from us. Like, we collectively work to try to. To. To beat the opponent across from us. So I don't want the players blaming the coaches. I don't want the players or the coaches blaming the players. Like, we're together trying to figure it out. And the only way you can do that is to accept ownership when. When you fall short. And guess what? We're going to fall short as coaches. The players are going to fall short, and we go, who cares? All right, let's go. We're going to be better tomorrow, right? And so I want to model the failure, recovery model, right, like, where we fail, recover, we try to be better, we fail, recover, we try to be better, and we rinse and repeat and we do that over. But if I never acknowledge it, then I don't know, how can I expect them to model that as well.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: Is there any point last year in the season where the Streak starts to take a life on his own or.
Or not?
[00:19:46] Speaker B: I don't think as much as people. I think other people get in your ear, like, hey, you guys probably need to lose, right? And.
And I say this not from, like, I don't know, to coach speak lens, but, like, just because maybe what I just said there, like, we're constantly evaluating the performance. You know, I. I always say, you know, I said on the. On the abc, on the main stage, it's like, if Beyonce can get done with her set and, like, watch her performance and try to be better, like, we're the same way. So just because we are winning, I mean, our the external scoreboard only means so much to us. It's way more about our internal scoreboard. So yeah, it was out there. But you know, when we lost in the World Series, we lose in game one and people were like waiting to see how we respond. And if you heard my press conference, I'm like, we've been doing this, we've lost a lot. It doesn't show up on a scoreboard. But like our, you know, we've had to look in the mirror of our poor performances before and we just will evaluate it. We'll take a good shower and we'll be out here tomorrow. I don't know if we'll win or not, but we'll be out here. And this loss won't impact us as much as you think it will.
[00:20:52] Speaker A: Yeah. How do you handle those after action reviews after games?
[00:20:57] Speaker B: It
[00:20:57] Speaker A: kind of keeps it the same then, right? Win or lose, we're still going to go about the process of what we did well and what we didn't do well.
[00:21:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I take a lot of pride in having the shortest post game meeting in the country. Like, if you ever watch our post game meetings you don't like, it's usually, hey, bus leaves here, see you guys tomorrow. Like that I, you know, and that, and that's been a shift, right? Like it's not our time to air our grievances of everything that went wrong in the game. And what's funny, the more technology you have, the more you, you really dive into it. You're usually wrong, by the way, in your, in your, in your post game reviews. It's like he actually couldn't have gotten to that spot because the ball took him that way or whatever. So, you know, you spend a lot of time like, you know, agonizing over things that really, you agonize over these small rocks that really weren't the problem. So usually with the players, player facing, it's usually really quick. And then we get back into it and we really evaluate the game and we just talk about it. I don't know, I try to really talk about it from a non judgmental lens. Just like, here's the reality. Here's what happened.
You know, here's. Here was good, here was bad. Here's where we want to get better. Now how can we get better? Do we want to throw something into training? Do we want to throw something into pregame? I think we really, we really try to maximize pregame at certain times of the year. It's almost like a practice for us.
So yeah, we're just always kind of evaluating what are some small leverage areas or some big leverage areas that we can get better at in a short or long period of time.
[00:22:17] Speaker A: How do you prep your incoming players for that? Part of like, okay, this is, we're going to constantly tweak and talk about things and try to improve where kids may have not been introduced to that yet.
[00:22:29] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, we, we try, you know, you know, speaking of Rome, I, he used to cringe because when I meet with recruits is usually try to talk them out of coming because I'll just tell them it really makes no sense. Like we're, you know, very few of you will go on to play pro baseball. Like we're gonna spend a ton of hours on this. Like, why would you, why would you want to do this? It doesn't make sense to me. And here, here we are, you know, so I, I, we, we start by trying to layering it in, in the onboarding process. We fill out a questionnaire that we try to prior to our guys arrival where we're trying to learn about some of their insecurities and fears and some of the things that make them tick. So we're trying to get a body of work before we ever work with them. And then to be frank, they have to be in the environment to really understand it. I mean, you're catching me at a vulnerable time with that because this is the fall, this is where it's so new. This is where the first time you really correct someone, you see those eyes, like, wait a minute, I just got picked off. Who cares? It happens. And, and I need a better answer for that than that, you know. So I think a lot of our first years are going through that experience right now. But I think the quicker what I enjoy for us is usually my biggest brag of our program. Ryan, I'll share this with you is probably three or four years ago we brought a transfer in, good player.
We started him in our first fall game and he doesn't run a ball out. And I got him pretty good in the dugout.
And some of it was because, you know, we're playing a transfer, we have returning players that were playing above him. And that's always hard for me, by the way, like just from the human side.
And so I got him pretty good. And by get him, I just pulled him off to the side and said whatever I had to say. And our best player, Eric Colosso, national player of the year, puts his arm around him and says, hey. He's like, don't Worry about it. We've all gotten it. He goes, but we do run hard here. We always run hard.
And to me, I was like, that's it. So I think that's it. While they're, you know, they're experiencing it, maybe feeling in some type of way, our older guys have been through it, and they're there to help them make them better, too. And I think, collectively, we know that the enemy's not in our dugout.
It's other people, and we're just trying to get better.
[00:24:35] Speaker A: And by the way, good for the game of baseball. The brewers won because Smurf, he doesn't take his foot off the gas pedal either.
[00:24:42] Speaker B: Nah. I mean, yeah, get practice,
[00:24:44] Speaker A: play hard. He pulled guys.
[00:24:47] Speaker B: Yeah,
[00:24:47] Speaker A: did all
[00:24:47] Speaker B: year.
Yeah. You know, it's. You know, it's. It's funny you say that, because I've. You know, obviously, Murph's Murph, and you. You listen to his press conferences and. But if you. You know, I'm a nerd. I like to listen to press conferences, and not for Murph. I do like to listen to Murph, but you listen to the players talk, and they've all had that shared suffering, the shared adversity, whether it's, like, through the organization and the tough coaching there or the game just beats you up so much. So when you're watching guys on the highest stage, that's what I always think of. I always think of what, like, the big smiles on their faces is everything they've been through to get to that moment. And while we won't know what it's like to do it on the. On the World Series stage in the big leagues, like, we get to experience it in small college baseball. And that same adversity, that same. Yeah. Shared suffering is a part of our program as well.
[00:25:36] Speaker A: And that relief, it's almost relief. You looked at those guys celebrate last night. It was like, relief for those guys.
[00:25:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? I'm. You know, maybe a slight brag for myself. I. I like to feel that I didn't feel that relief for us. Like, I. It was. I. You know, I have a great mentor who says, you know, like, regardless of the result, I'm no better husband, father, leader, whether, like, we get the outcome or not. And I really try to live by that mantra, you know? So, yeah, I don't want to pretend that I wasn't super happy. Like, I was. I was like, all those things are very true. It does feel better to be on that side of it. But as A player I lost at a national championship game. And I remember the grace that, you know, the St. Thomas coach showed, and I'll never forget that, you know, so, you know, we are, man, the competitors is, you know, competing with each other and I've got a lot of love and respect for the people that, that bring the best out in us and fight hard with us and sometimes you get on the good side and, man, it's awesome. But when you're on the other side too, there's a lot, there's a lot of honor there as well
[00:26:37] Speaker A: after winning it. Now, does the message change at all this fall with the guys?
[00:26:41] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, it's funny, I felt like we had a couple different directions that go there. You know, I think we all took the victory lap a little bit this summer. And, you know, there's. As
[00:26:50] Speaker A: you should, though, like, you have to savor that.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: Oh, man, I was very intentional and had some great, you know, people who've won the past reach out to me and said, hey, make sure you take the time to enjoy it. And I think we did, you know, I think we did that in our own way.
But I had a couple different ways you can go with, hey, that was last year's time. Who cares?
This team hasn't won anything. Like, that's one route to go. I just went with our normal meeting and then at the very end, I said, I thought we were climbing and thought we had it figured out. And I said, holy crap, this happens. And I showed the walk off hit and I said, I'm not sure how we're going to respond to this, but I think I did have an idea just from the summer and reflection, you know, I heard the Oklahoma City president talking and he said, you know, you know, every year it's about trying to repeat a process. And that's our job. Our job is to put ourselves in a position.
When things break our way, we're able to take advantage of it. And because outcomes are random, I'm the first to admit it. Like, a lot of things broke our way last year and we created a lot of that. But we were ready when it was at that magic year was going to, like, we had done enough things to be able to capitalize, and that's what we're trying to do. And what I've said is, will we ever win 44 straight? No. Will we ever go 51 and three? No. We win a national championship, it's going to be really hard to do that. But I do know. But the one thing I do Know is we can be a ton better in our process. A ton.
And. And that's what we're. We're leaning in on. And right now through the majority of the fall, I would say we haven't really been successful in that. But lucky thing for us is we have another off season here that we can try to win and get ready to kick it in here in late January and February. So that's where my focus is. Not trying to outdo 44 wins. It's trying to outdo that process.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: What's it look like for you when you say be. Be better in our process? What's that look like for you?
[00:28:41] Speaker B: Well, you know, I mentioned our shared purpose. You know, it's. It's compete on a national level and providing the least student athlete experience. And from. From my seat, the compete on a national level is pretty easy. Like that's what we're wired to do here. But I can do a better job of that second portion which is trying to provide our guys and allow them to experience all the resources, all the things of Denison. That's 1, 2.
I mentioned my horrific gaffe in the practice plan. I make those mistakes all the time.
I think the way we run our meetings are after pitching reviews or after hitting reviews. Those things are all things that we can sharpen, you know. And right now we're really fortunate. We had a manager come in this, a sophomore manager that has rocked our world with trying to build out a dashboard for our guys. And that's got me so excited. And it's not. It's not anything earth shattering yet, but I think we're onto something. So it's that Kaizen, like I was. I honestly was worried about, you know, sometimes I'll spend some time, you know, working, you know, with different organizations. And I didn't do that this past summer. But that work always gives me new ideas to implement. And I didn't have that this year. But this young man gave me the momentum, the juice to go, okay, this is something that could be an inflection point for our program. So I think all those things have me really excited, really energized. From our process to new things that we're trying to create.
[00:30:05] Speaker A: How do you approach that with you Coach, I got an idea I think is real good.
Your manager,
[00:30:13] Speaker B: how am I going to be better?
[00:30:14] Speaker A: No, no, no. Your manager, how's he bring that to you? Like, hey coach, I've got an idea for something here, I think. Oh
[00:30:19] Speaker B: yeah, A fun story. So first I met with him. First he Transferred in this year. So he, this is his first year on campus. So I met with him and I showed him like we have a way that we try to objectively measure defense. It's something we've been on for the last two or three years, but we've done it with like where they log it in paper and pencil. We log, you know, we call them routine place, 50, 50 and difficult. So anyways, and we have a weighted system that we factored in. So I showed him how we do it and I'm pretty proud of it. And he leaves. And then the next time we have a couple other managers and I kind of explained again, we're getting ready for our first practice. I said, you know, this is what we do. Then I made the mistake of saying, if you guys have end up finding a better way, I said, please tell us. We're all trying to get better. We need the feedback too. And he goes, coach, if you don't mind, I, I, I, I've worked on. This is our last talk, and I think I have something and Roman and I in there, in there. And he pulls out his computer. So now he pulls out his computer and he starts showing me this stuff. And Rome goes, yeah, that's better. We're gonna go with, we're gonna go with, with his stuff here. So we're gonna go, we're gonna go with James right here. So anyways, that started it. That's like the small part of it. But then it just kind of just kept going and going and going to the point where some of my friends in professional baseball have reached out and said, hey, like, I, I don't do this often. And I'm going to keep bragging about James because it's not that, it's not the intellect. It's.
I've challenged him and said anything that becomes player facing has got to be spot on. Anything we put in from the front of the players, like, you know, and he had missed, we had missed a couple of things in data collection. I was like, that'll never go in front of the players.
And James has taken that and really, really got that. And he'll also put out screens, he'll also set up machines. I'll set up the track man up. So he's not just someone who wants to do the glamorous parts of the job. He wants to do it all. So, yeah, that, that young man has got a bright future and we love having him.
[00:32:12] Speaker A: Defensive efficiency.
[00:32:14] Speaker B: Defensive efficiency has kind of been our, our benchmark for a lot of times. And now we're trying to objectively measure who's, who's putting us in a best position to be defensive efficient.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: What do you feel like stayed the same for you over the course of your career?
I know you change a lot, but what do you feel like stayed the same for you?
[00:32:32] Speaker B: You know, I think it's always, you know, I think the bedrock things, you know, I still think small things such as pitching and defense are really tough to beat. I think pitching and defense always gives you a shot to be competitive. And I, you know, I've also, so I don't want to be a hypocrite. You know, we spend the majority of our training around the mound and home plate. Like that's. But I think in the college game, especially the northern college game, when you're playing it's, you know, I was telling our guys this the other day, like you'll never play in weather like we're expecting experiencing right now because it's going to be, you know, mid-30s and the wind blowing in and it's just not conducive. But if we pitch and catch it, like we're going to have a shot and we're really tough to score against. Right. Like we can do that. Then we can manipulate offense sometimes and to win high leverage games in May, I think you got to be able to flip the scoreboard. But if, if we can pitch and play D, we're going to give ourselves a shot. And I think we started with that from, from early on when we were turning this thing around, we were just staying in games and then amazingly, people would give you some. So that's kind of one thing, I think the other thing, just the way I think I try to treat people, you know, I think, you know, while I said I had a little more abrasiveness probably early on, I still, like, it was still like always about the kids and trying to make them better. And I think that's always been like a foundational piece of who I am as a person.
So I think there's, I could probably go on and on, but I think over time I've gotten more, my theories have gotten clearer.
Like, I've always valued people. I've always valued a vision. I've always valued having values. Now I can just articulate them better.
[00:34:07] Speaker A: You know, with being a lifelong learner, I think that the hard part, sometimes you pick up so many new things. So how do you whittle that down to okay, we are going to implement this in the program, or is it science based trial and error. We're gonna, we're gonna just gonna throw stuff against the wall and see if it sticks.
[00:34:22] Speaker B: So I, I have a great mentor who always challenges me in general to not be anecdotal, to be more evidence based. Like, he always, this always pushes and, and so I don't want to be. I think when you're too, you know, you go to the convention and you're just swept away and you put this in, and put this in.
I think that's, I think you can lose your, your North Star as a program, your compass. And you see that quite a bit.
I think what I have over, like time served, 20 years in the industry, building out a lot of relationships. I do have a lot of friends at, you know, the pro level, division one level, where they have more resources, so they've been able to be more evidence based. They have the numbers behind that. So I think we can be quicker to adapt because they have, you know, they have the numbers. So one quick example for us would be like infield in deployment, like we, you know, we were what, Much more. I was raised much more traditionally infield, back early, prevent the beginning. Now I've had some of my friends say, pro friends say, the mask's not there with that. I get in. So now if you watch us, you watch our World Series games, we're in, like, we're in and we're in a lot. So that's something that we've changed. But that's not my math or my evidence base, but I'm relying on the industry's knowledge to do that. Now the, the pushback on that is like, that's pro. How does that correlate to small college baseball?
I always try to be very quick to not go to that default of, okay, that works in the pros, it won't work here. I don't like that line of thinking. I like knowing what I want this and what we want this to look like. And then, all right, here's our constraints. Okay, the small college game, there's more variability, there's less predictability in the way the players play and the way the ball's hit. But how can we form our version of it here? So I hope that makes some sense. But that's kind of how I funnel it. But I want it to be not just willy nilly, hey, let's just throw this in. But I do leverage the resources that we have around us to make our, to make an impact in our program.
[00:36:19] Speaker A: How do you blend with the program, such a high academic school, and then Obviously not. You want to introduce stuff to your guys but you don't want to overload them with information too because they're taking a lot in the classroom also.
[00:36:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I just, I think just, you know, our guys are just like any other players, including pro players. I think, you know, you have to. The art of coaching is probably trying to distill down what, what the data, what the technology, you know, how much you want to teach, how much information do they really need, how much is. And the filter that I'm always trying to run it through is, is this going to help on field performance? Right. So. Or am I just talking to show them how much we know? Right. Or how much information we have.
But I think there are times where you know, our guys, I think just because of the way they learn, like we're, we're traditional us students where they're used to a classroom setting, like classroom sessions tend to work now we don't want our classroom sessions to be very long and because we have the constraints. I mean just like a lot of us in the industry, we've been privileged to go spend time like in Vanderbilt, they're kind of the benchmark for best in class of classroom sessions. Well, we don't have, you know, we don't have as much time so we nor do we have a classroom right on site. So. But we have found that to be an effective way of teaching. But we do talk a lot about at the field because they do spend a lot of time in the classroom. We want that to be the bit of a playground, like let's just go play.
We don't like to steal reps if you come. I always say if you watch us practice you'd be incredibly disappointed because you won't hear me say a lot.
My work is usually done trying to be thoughtful and getting us ready. But it's all because I want them to just go enjoy that experience. We want that to be a very welcome, welcoming, frictionless place where they choose to spend their time. And I think that's how we know if we're on to the right thing. If you know, we'll go on Friday, whatever. It'll be 3:30, dynamic warm up but you'll see guys rolling in there really, really early because I think it's a welcoming place. They want to get better. Not because of hey, you better be out there and we're going to load you up with this information.
It's because they want to enjoy it, they want to get better.
[00:38:23] Speaker A: Any other end game management stuff you've Switched. Talk about going to infield in a little bit more. What other endgame management stuff have you switched over the years?
[00:38:32] Speaker B: I think, you know, we run the contact play a lot more than we. We've used to. I think how we deploy our. Our. Our arms are bullpen a lot more.
You know, I think it was probably in the past more like the traditional right, left. Now we go, okay, you know, we got a right hander, but we like his vertical fastball and his. His 12 to 6 breaking ball against that lefty. So how we deploy our arsenal, I think, is probably some of the other high leverage ways, I think, you know, just creative ways to hold runners, like with back picks and things like that.
You know, just over the years, you kind of just pick things up. You watch, you know, I. You tend to watch and observe. And then, you know, Rome and I, and it led to like a.
A long text thread, annoying text thread. Last night there was a first to third play, and Walls was a little out of position, the shortstop for Tampa, and it became like, why is he out of position? And so anyways, like, we just geek out on that. So there's like, yeah, it was a Camaro play where he cuts it off and he throws in behind. They get. They get the trail runner. So we're like, all right, do we really expect our shortstop to get depth on every first or third play? Is that realistic? So anyways, yeah, I'm rambling a little bit, but I think you just kind of watch and observe. And then because you have friends, and I don't want to say, hi, places, but places that have more information that thought through these things, you can ask those questions, and then hopefully you can reframe your thinking. In some ways,
[00:39:57] Speaker A: you have a lot of great mentors. Have you ever gotten bad advice?
[00:40:02] Speaker B: Oh. Or
[00:40:03] Speaker A: do you consider any advice bad advice?
[00:40:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I think. I think what I've gotten better at is filtering what's good advice for me. You know, it's like feedback. I. I used to be resistant to feedback because, you know, feedback can sound hurtful and feel hurtful, but I don't have to. You know, you can get off here and say, hey, Mike, you know, whatever. You need to be tight in your answers. And I can listen to that and say, thank you, Ryan. And then I can watch the tape back and go, you know what, Ryan? I don't think Ryan was right with that. Right, like, yeah, it's not. Not all feedback's created equal.
And that's not to be, like, resistant. I think you have to just. You have to become more comfortable in your own skin to receive feedback. And the same thing with advice. I think you hear advice and you have to give it thought, and you have to give it attention, and then you have to make a decision of whether you think this will work for you. Now, I have a great friend who will say, any decision we make is right, so. Meaning once we make the decision now, it's our job to make it right. And I love that line, by the way. It's just shout out to Mark Bradley, who passed away a few years, but that was he. That was his line. I love that because, yeah, that's what we do. So advice, whether it's good or bad, is. It's just advice, right? It's just advice. And you listen and you reflect and you think, how can I make this work well,
[00:41:12] Speaker A: and that's your answer too. Like, I. I think you. You try things, you make a decision, but that's also a good thing too. If it doesn't work out the way you thought it was going to work out, that's also your answer as well.
[00:41:23] Speaker B: Rather
[00:41:23] Speaker A: than sitting on your hands and not making any decision at all, I think then you find out what your answer is, and then you move on to the next thing.
[00:41:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not gonna lay in a ditch and die here. Right. Like, I made the decision. Now we got. Now we gotta go. Now we have to. We have to go. And they're all just, you know, whether it's, you know, we talked about with us not losing last year, they're all just data points along the way, whether that's a decision that didn't go well. And, you know, I love Annie Duke's line, you know, of resulting.
I try not to let the result be the.
The determination of whether the decision was well or not. That's not right or not. That's not what we want to do. We want to analyze the outcome and just say, okay, like, let's look at our process. Was our process sound? Was my decision making process sound? Okay, the guy got the hit. Even though we had the matchup that we thought we liked, that doesn't mean that it was a bad decision. That just means we didn't get the outcome right. Because, heck, it could be a 10%, it could be a 5% chance that that decision goes wrong, and it could still go wrong. That doesn't mean you go, shoot, we should have went to Ryan there and not Mike. It's just. No. Where we sound at our process. Yes. Okay, there's your Data point. And now, now we move on.
[00:42:29] Speaker A: Do you have any advice for incoming parents of baseball players at the college level?
[00:42:34] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, it's a Tip Corbin line that I've heard years ago, but it's released the experience. Just release it.
You know, it's be supportive. You know, I've had to learn probably with my own kids because I've just done this for so long that, you know, they always say two part support work, one part accountability.
I'm probably like five part accountability, one part support with my own kids. And I need to work on that because I think a parent's job is to be more supportive. You know, they're not the coach. They don't need to have it like through this critical lens. You know, most parents have dad goggles or mom goggles. They just, that's just what they have. I have it with my own kids.
But just to be aware of that is what I would say. You know, I, when I go watch my kids, I don't care. It could be a group of 15. I zone in on mine at times, right? But I have to like almost intentionally pull back and say, oh, that's just one person out there.
But I think releasing that experience is, is so critical because it's not your experience, it's theirs. The highs and the lows, including having a bad boss and, or a bad coach. Right? Like, that's, that's a part of life. There's, there's lessons there. You know, I, I always try to think, even with my own kids, what's the lesson in this? You know, my, my middle daughter just had to go through the grueling circuit, which I can't believe we have, because there's no options like, of a 12 year old, like club volleyball tryouts. And you know, with every one of those experiences, I always just try to lean into like, what's, what's the lesson here? Not did she make the team or not make the team? But what's the lesson? And it's always loaded with lessons. And that's the beautiful thing about sports is this, it's this pretty safe platform to experience failure and ultimate success as well. But it's theirs, not yours. And we rob them, we rob them of the gift when we intervene too much. And I'm on this ramp and I, you know, I, I was, I said to our guys recently, like, when you get an opportunity with us to play like on the varsity level, whatever, whatever level that may be, like when you, When parents intervene too much, they rob them of that moment. Of, oh my gosh, I did this. Like, like, there's no. Like, I had to go through all that. I didn't know if I was going to be able to get an. I had no idea how this is going to work out. But guess who did it? Me. And that's where confidence comes from. But if parents intervene at all, even if your kid doesn't know it, they know it. You know what I mean? Like you, you rob them of that gift. So anyways, just release experience. It's so hard to do. I say it with empathy because it's not easy, but it is theirs, it's not yours. And try to enjoy it.
[00:45:05] Speaker A: With my 23 and 21 year old. Life got a lot better when I finally just let go on a lot of stuff.
[00:45:10] Speaker B: Yeah, that doesn't mean you don't love. No,
[00:45:12] Speaker A: no, no, not at all. I'm. I'm more of a Gen X parent when it comes to this now. It kind of raised them how I've been raised, where it's. Yes, there's some accountability if you need to pull back, but the rest of it is gray area and go do it. I'm here. I'm here if you need me. I told my daughter that the other day I drove her to an appointment. I said, hey, I'm sitting on the bench when you need me. Like, when you need me, I'm here.
And. But if you don't, we're good. Like, but just know that I'm here for you. But if you don't need me, I'm good. I'm just gonna sit on the bench for a while until you.
[00:45:42] Speaker B: Yeah. And most research will show that, by the way, like, that's the greatest thing we can give our kids. No, it's just that. That I'm. That I'm here for. Unconditionally, I'm
[00:45:48] Speaker A: here, but
[00:45:49] Speaker B: I'm unconditionally for you. And yes, look, it rips your heart out. Like my. I, I experienced it by the way. Like, just, I, you know, it was hard having your kids want something and not get it. It's so hard. I'm not. Gosh, I'm not immune to this. I'm not. But it's. It's not for one, it's not as bad as we think. You know, just usually. Right. Like there's. But, but it's more. I'm here for you. Like, I. That was really hard, you know, like for my daughter. I try to lean into like the internal scoreboard of, hey, going into tryouts. How hard Is that, like, I. I get nervous walking that gym and you do it. That's amazing. I've seen how hard you've worked. I've seen how hard you prepared. Like, I'm so proud of that. Like, I. I really want to lean into that internal scoreboard and not. Not. Did you make a team or not? Did you get the pitch or not that you experience failure? I just think the more we can do that. But like I say, I'm not trying to sound like I. I don't have those same thoughts I do, but I've just watched over the years, like, I think I've watched parents sabotage some really good experiences. And I don't think it's maliciously either.
[00:46:49] Speaker A: No, no, no. Their heart's in the right place.
[00:46:51] Speaker B: Their heart's in the right place.
I don't think parents are bad. I think 99.9% of them, it's just all from love.
You know, there's some. There's a malicious one or two out there, but very, very few. They're the minority. But it's just misguided, right? It's just misguided. And it's just that love that probably permeates and probably is misdirected at times.
[00:47:11] Speaker A: I have a childhood friend, but he started having kids later on, and he's sending me video of his son in the cage. I'm like, hey, is that a lesson? He's like, yeah. I'm like, why are you in there with him? He goes, what are you talking about? I'm like, no, I'm just. I'm telling you some friendly advice. I love you.
Drop him off and leave, and then pick him up. Ask when the lesson's done, and then pick him up. And. And I said, when you go to games, keep your mouth shut. And he called me, like, six months later. He goes, I can't thank you enough for the advice that you gave me. He goes, my son loves baseball. I said, get out of the way. I'm like, just get out of the way. I'm like, let somebody else coach him. He goes, hey, that's the best. He goes, our. Our coaches love our family because of the. Of the advice you gave me. One, drop them off for the lesson. Get out of there. And then two, don't say a word during games.
[00:48:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I would say I have two things off of that one, One, it's so cool then to hear what. And because of what I do for a living, I miss a lot of my kids events.
[00:48:10] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:48:10] Speaker B: Right. And that's what we signed it up for. That's not.
But, but what I've learned though, it's. It's really cool to hear the game or the practice through their eyes.
So.
Yeah, it's sad that I can't. You know, I think it's usually the parents baggage and, and look, I'm hoping by the only time will tell how I'm viewed by my kids, by the way, so I'm not. But I, I always love hearing the, the game through their eyes and not through how an adult viewed it. Right. So that, that's there. There's something to that. And the second thing, I just would be remiss if I didn't say because I give this to friends that have gonna have kids that have gone to college to play. I always say just be careful. Don't call too often and ask about practice because you one, you're riding the wave with them like, you know what I mean? Like, it's. There's just ups and downs to this. So, you know, and
[00:48:56] Speaker A: by the way, you're not there with them too. So their perception of, of an event might be different than the way the event actually happened too.
[00:49:04] Speaker B: Exactly. And, and you don't know what's valued. You're, you know, in baseball, your kid may have won three for three, but they rolled a couple balls through the five, six hole off, you know, off an arm that's probably not a, you know, a high leverage arm for us yet, you know, so your inner squad result may not be what we value or on the flip side, by the way, you may have had a really bad pitching outing, but we're going, hey, you know, like the stuff was good, you know, like that play probably should have been made. So you really don't even know like if it was a good or batting or it's just more just check in. I, I give my dad credit. You know, he was, he was involved like when I was in youth. Not, not involved, but just we love sports and he, I was raised, you know, I was raised a certain way, but once I got to college, like he did release experience and I always appreciate that because I was in a fight, you know, I was in a fight at Marietta trying to, trying to get. Get a role and, and you know, he trusted the coaches and he knew and what I always loved, you know, I played for Coach Sally was a tough, tough, tough man. But in hindsight, my, my dad would always say this when he was living, Michael got treated fair and like he played when he needed to, he played when he should have played. He got benched when he should have got benched. I got benched my junior year.
Yeah. So in hindsight, it kind of all worked out. Right. So. But if you're in the mix every day with it, you're just gonna. You're just gonna cycle and ruminate and do all those things that probably aren't productive for you or for your child.
[00:50:25] Speaker A: Did your views on coaching change at all when you were assistant director of athletics?
[00:50:30] Speaker B: I don't think. No, I don't. I think you get to see a holistic view.
You get to see, you know, you get to see the operation a little bit more. I think you get to see how, like, the entire university is. Is operating. So I think you get a little peek behind the curtain there.
I think being a parent really changed me. And then having. Having kids as they get older and it. And it's changed me not in the, you know, it's more like how would I want my kids to be treated? Which isn't like, I wouldn't want. Once again, I wouldn't want them to be given anything. I wouldn't. I want them. But I do think a level of empathy, a level of honesty, a level of connection. Like, I think those things are things that I want to hold myself accountable to now. And I think being a parent really amplifies that. But to answer your question, administration wise, more just on the totality of how all this works. And maybe we're not as important as we think we are.
Baseball is just one of the many sports that we have here. We're not just the only show. And you learn that when you're in administration. You're
[00:51:29] Speaker A: still teaching classes.
[00:51:30] Speaker B: No, I'm not. No, we don't teach any longer here.
I have a role of working. My secondary responsibility is working in the. In the learning and development of our other coaches, which sounds really glamorous. I really just share out articles and podcasts and things that I found interesting, and I encourage others to share with me. And then we gather once a week and we reflect. We talk about some of the things that we're seeing in the coaching world, the leadership world, and really just talk about anything that we're kind of grappling with.
[00:52:00] Speaker A: What have you introduced to that group here?
Oh,
[00:52:03] Speaker B: man, just, you know, it's fun for me because, you know, it's really just like what I'm nerding out on. And right now, like, Sean McVeigh is, like, on my radar. Like, I've, you know, someone sent me a podcast which led Me to a couple others. That was one a Trevor Reagan article on when I'm too. When I'm too busy to learn. It's. It's learning when you're too busy to learn. And I sent that article this week.
Yeah, so it's really just actually I mentioned Andy Duke, but we talked about Andy Duke earlier, earlier in the semester.
And the Daily Coach Network just sent out an article on resulting.
So it's really anything that I'm finding interesting and like I said, I tried to make it about me. I encourage others to share freely and share what they're finding, but a lot of times just comes to what I'm reading and listening to and hopefully it resonates with someone else.
[00:52:54] Speaker A: All right, give us a fail forward moment. Something you thought was going to set you back, but looking back now, it helped you move forward.
[00:53:00] Speaker B: You know, in 2015, you know, we. It was my third year and we were moving in the right direction.
Thought I had things figured out and we, you know, we fell, we stumbled. We brought the majority of our roster back that year and it was the only year we haven't. Didn't make our conference tournament at Denison. And I thought at that time I was like, man, I don't know if we can get this thing turned around. I don't know.
But I think the reflection, the.
The ruthless evaluation of our program at that time, like, it brought some things out. It led to like, our values of grit, gratitude, kaizen and mudida, like, it led to that, like, which had become the hallmark and the pillars and what keeps us grounded as a program.
So I think that failure to. I don't think you've known me long enough. I don't know if I was ever like, overly arrogant, but I did think, hey, I think I got this head coaching thing a little bit figured out now. But that humbles you, you know, So I think that moment really bounced me forward and that was probably the biggest inflection point of our program.
[00:54:01] Speaker A: Do you think the baseball. Probably that's the biggest thing baseball teaches you is just the humble part of it. It's like once you feel like you got it all figured out, like it's going to show you in a hurry. You don't.
[00:54:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it's either you, you're. Well, it's either you're humble, you get humbled. Right. It's it. It really is. And we all lose our way from time to time with that. But it will. It just will continue to punch you in the mouth. It'll just continue to do it to you.
But yeah, that's why you, you know, you really don't. Can't let this as a coach, you can't let this be your identity. You just can't. You can't let your self worth be dictated by winning a national championship or not winning a national championship because it's, it's, it's really. Yeah, it's, it's not, that's not what's going to define you as a person. So, yeah, that humility has probably been what's something that I lean into as, as a value and as a competitive advantage for myself. And I know even though we're at the top of the mountain right now in Division 3 baseball, I'm well aware, well, well aware of a few missteps and, you know, we're back to where we were 15 years ago.
[00:55:02] Speaker A: And I feel the same way about like, personal habits. What about personal habits or routines that help you get back on the path? Because I think we all vary sometimes and we get away from it. But what are some daily habits and routines that help pull you back?
[00:55:14] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, to me, you know, we, you and I think we've talked about this years ago, but, you know, there's a local guy here, Corey Gregory, Corey G.
That, you know, is a famous fitness instructor and I used to ask him all these questions and he said, what, are you going to quit BS and just come work out with me one time? And that like changed me. That was like probably in 2015 or 16.
But that's become almost like something that I need now. You know, I need that training. I need.
I feel like in coaching I think there's. And sorry, because I could nerd out on this for a while, but like, it's the idea of like recovery or winning an off season. And you know, I think the old model was like, you get away from it and just stay away from me for a while. Like, you know, that's how I'm going to recover. Right. I'm going to recover by. And now I think it's like micro ways of recovery. So for me it's like it doesn't have to be an hour and a half workout, but it could just be a good walk in the morning. You know, it could be just taking some time to reflect and listen to a podcast or read a book. But I think you have to find out what makes you tick and when you're at your best. And you don't need to do it in an immersive experience. It doesn't have to Be sometimes you need that immersive experience. By the way, like if I'm off track on my diet, which I'm frequently off track on my diet, like a 24 hour fast can get you back on pretty quickly but you're much better off sometimes if you can just monitor and have those moments. So yeah, I think just knowing what makes you tick at your best level and leaning into those as much as you can and just understanding back to Corey that we all fall off. Like we all do.
Give yourself
[00:56:47] Speaker A: grace. I tell people that
[00:56:50] Speaker B: I love that. Give yourself grace.
[00:56:52] Speaker A: Like I don't think we do that as humans enough. Like you have to forgive yourself because you're gonna fall off. Like forgive yourself, give yourself grace and get, get, just get back to it. Just get. And
[00:57:02] Speaker B: back to coaching and back to coaching. Just the same thing. Like I, I'm very in tune with my interactions and I'm very in tune like when I'm, when I'm off there and I have to remind myself that it's. We're dealing with 40 plus. Like you know, 18 to 22 year olds. Like every one of these interactions aren't going to be like the highlight of my career. You know, Like I, I can't, I can't. I can be mindful of it. I can be thoughtful about it. I can be aware of my dinosaur tail. Like you've heard like, like when the, the, the, the higher your, like your level. Like when you're head coach, you say things and you don't know how it's impacting others and then you turn around and you've done some damage. Like I'm aware of that but I have to give myself some grace. That every day is not going to be John Wooden moment. Like where everyone's like, wow, that's like the Zen perfect coach. It's not. And the same thing with fitness or wellness or anything. Like we're all just imperfect human beings trying to find our way in this thing.
[00:57:53] Speaker A: Would you tweak anything with Division 3 baseball at all? Would you tweak anything?
[00:57:57] Speaker B: Where could I start? Ryan, let's
[00:57:59] Speaker A: go. That's why I'm asking.
[00:58:02] Speaker B: I'm
[00:58:02] Speaker A: always trying to improve too. Like that. That's the thing with
[00:58:04] Speaker B: U.S.
[00:58:06] Speaker A: association. We're trying to help and improve.
[00:58:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean like, you know, to zoom in really tight. You know, I think the championship series being one game and then a doubleheader and it's just, that's just, gosh, that's a lot. You know, we, yeah, we end up being on the Good end of that. But man, you know that's, that's, that's tough. You play all year long. In the end with the double header, I don't love that. I love the changes we made. I love the, I know it's always comes back around but going to 24 days from 16 has been massive, massive. And shout out to the ABCA for kind of leading that charge.
But I love the game where it's at. You know, I'm always looking for more opportunities for our student athletes and I know it comes at a cost of support staff and resources and things like that but to me I'm very simple minded when it comes to this. But I think if you're hiring good people, I don't know why you don't want them around student athletes more, not less. Like I just. Because the way the rules are set up right now at certain times of the year, like they, you know, you really just shouldn't see your athletes. You know, like you shouldn't see them and I, I don't see how that's a win. So I just think the more exposure we can get to our athletes, the better. There's always going to be people who push that envelope too far. But sometimes when there's these heavy constraints like this, we actually abuse them in another way because we try to maximize the heck out of every day we have. And really once again like those micro doses are probably better than the submersion. So. But yeah, there's a couple of things, man. I think the biggest thing for the championship is can we get, can we get that over a three day span if necessary,
[00:59:39] Speaker A: trying to give you guys some flexibility for your exhibition games to be able to use them in the fall.
[00:59:44] Speaker B: I love that, love the exhibition games because
[00:59:47] Speaker A: they're already set up for you guys just. And not that you have to do it but give you some flexibility. Those spring games, be able to use them in the fall.
[00:59:57] Speaker B: Yeah. It's sunny in 70 today. Yeah.
[00:59:59] Speaker A: This is your best time of the year.
[01:00:01] Speaker B: Yeah. No, look, I like anything I just said is not from, it's from just trying to make the game better. Not, you know, it's it. I love Division 3 baseball. I think it's, we had some pro scouts out the other day. We were guys getting some attention and, and they're like hey, this may be the last. Like this is like a very pure brand of baseball. But it's, it's, it's still great, you know, still about, you know, development, getting kids better. And I love where Division 3 baseball. I love where college baseball is at in general, so that's an unfair statement. But I do love our game. I love this level.
You know, I think it's a really special, pure brand of baseball.
[01:00:38] Speaker A: Denison was one of my five visits my senior year because I knew this school was awesome.
[01:00:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it is,
[01:00:46] Speaker A: you know, different for me to go to Division 1, but that, like, Denison was my one Division 3 school that I looked at.
[01:00:52] Speaker B: Yeah,
[01:00:52] Speaker A: education was going to be elite.
[01:00:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know what's so fun about baseball? It's such a blurry line, you know, and, you know, some of the negativity around the transfer portal. I've really enjoyed our guys. Some of our guys have gone on to have opportunities at different places. It's, it's, it's great, you know, but, but it's really enhanced the fact that just.
It's not what people think it is. You know, it's, it's, it's really
[01:01:11] Speaker A: in the pudding on that. Hey, this guy dominated this level. He's dominating Division 1 now, too.
[01:01:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, he's doing great. You know, it's, it's just, it's just like, usually it's like any level, it's just the volume of elite players aren't as high. You know what I mean? It's just every. But, yeah, no, it's, it's fun for me to, to watch our guys get those opportunities and take advantage of them. And we're on. When we're traveling on our bus rides, we usually have their games up, you know, watching. So of all the negativity around that, it's, to me, it's just. Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's like, once again, we'll make it right. Right? Like, we'll, we'll make it right.
[01:01:45] Speaker A: Hey, we're heading into, like, state association year, convention year. Like, give somebody some tips that's got to speak on stage.
You crushed yours. So, like,
[01:01:54] Speaker B: thank you. Yeah, no, I, I, I would say just like, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. It's, you know, get a respect for that audience and respect for that stage and respect for the legends that have been a part of our game and all the people that are there that are giving their undivided attention to listen to you. So with that responsibility becomes a heavy level of preparation and then just try to enjoy. It's like any, it's like we tell our players, you know, prepare like crazy, give it the honor, the respect it deserves, and then just go enjoy it. Someone grabbed me Before. I wish I remember it was. They said, it's going to go really fast. So, you know, just try to enjoy it. I'm sure you've heard that same.
That same sentiment echoed over and over. But, yeah, prepare. Enjoy it and respect the audience,
[01:02:37] Speaker A: because it is. It's. It's over. In a blink of an eye.
[01:02:41] Speaker B: You're
[01:02:41] Speaker A: out there and you get through those first couple minutes, but then it's. You look down, it's like, I got like two minutes left.
[01:02:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And you're in an awesome club. You know, Matt Talarico, when. When he was at Wright State, I believe, or maybe Dayton. But anyways, it was his first time on the main stage. It was on a Sunday, and I stuck around and I sat right in the front row. And anyways, I'm walking out this year. Going toward. He had to go somewhere, but he said, hey, I'll never forget the first time I was up there. You were there, and I want to. He's like, you're going to kill it. Go enjoy it. And so anyways, I'm not trying to romanticize it, but it's a pretty cool club. It's one of the best honors you can get as a coach in this game.
So just, yeah, enjoy that honor, because I think that's worth sharing that my little interaction with Tally maybe hopefully resonates with someone like that. It's pretty cool when a lot of people admire what you're doing. And if you're nervous. Yeah,
[01:03:34] Speaker A: yeah,
[01:03:37] Speaker B: yeah. Just go let it rip.
[01:03:39] Speaker A: What are some final thoughts before I Let yout Go?
[01:03:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll just end by just saying, you know, kind of what I was saying a minute ago. I love, and it's a lot because of what the ABCA is doing, but the state of college baseball has probably never been. The practice has never been better.
I think it's only going to get better, too, with some of the things we're seeing at the professional level. The brand of baseball will continue to get higher and higher. And how awesome is that? And just so thankful. You know, there's a lot of negativity sometimes around our jobs, whatever that may be, but it's never lost on me what an honor it is to be a coach, to be a leader, to be a mentor. And for everyone that's listening, you know, I hope you feel that same honor and same privilege that I do
[01:04:21] Speaker A: and shout out to using the whole fields, coming back offensively.
[01:04:25] Speaker B: It's back, it's back. It's
[01:04:28] Speaker A: raising Brewers. Yes. Thank you.
[01:04:31] Speaker B: Hey, you stick around. This game long enough, it'll come back.
[01:04:33] Speaker A: It comes back.
[01:04:35] Speaker B: We used to always
[01:04:36] Speaker A: on the fringes, but it comes back to the middle at some point.
[01:04:40] Speaker B: Hey, my story with that real quick and before we end is, you know, when, when I was playing and coaching, when you go, you do flush runs, right? Like you get done and go for a jog run poles. And then at some point, you became the dumbest coach ever. If you're running distance, why would you ever run distance? And then someone, I heard someone talking this year and they said, hey, every pitcher needs zone two training. And then they described it. And I went, that's a flush run. You know,
[01:05:03] Speaker A: fitness, it's general cardio.
[01:05:05] Speaker B: But, but it was my moment, though, where I was like, I've sat here long enough to see things in style, out of style and back in style, but if you package it. So anyways, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's pretty cool. But we're back, babe. We're using the whole field. We're, we're back in 90ft. We're getting hit by some pitches. Like, we're, we're doing those things that, that can drive winning. But it'll also be. Once again, back to our comment. You, you know, you don't want to go back and swing the other way. You know, you have to just be tried and true to who you are and keep learning and growing and implement where you feel fit.
[01:05:35] Speaker A: Thanks for your time, Mike. Appreciate you, sir.
[01:05:37] Speaker B: Appreciate you, Ryan. Thanks for having me on.
[01:05:39] Speaker A: Coach Deegan is another great example of a lifelong learner in the baseball community.
Remarkable job building the denison program since 2013.
Congrats to him and the entire Denison athletic department on a phenomenal 2025, 2026 season. Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale and Matt west in the ABCA office for all help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via email our brownlya.org Twitter, Instagram or TikTok CoachBRCA direct message me via the MyVC app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off for the American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks and leave a better flows behind you.
Wait for another
[01:06:28] Speaker C: day and the world
[01:06:34] Speaker A: will always return
[01:06:37] Speaker C: and your life
[01:06:38] Speaker A: is never for yearning and you know that way Wait for another day Sat.
