Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the abca's podcast. I'm your host ryan brownlee.
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This episode is sponsored by Netting Pros.
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Terry Gobert has built a dynasty at Jasper High School, combining sustained excellence with player development throughout a remarkable 38 season career. Gilbert's teams have combined a.912 and249 record, making one of just five coaches in Indiana high school baseball history to eclipse the.900 win mark.
He holds the highest winning percentage among active coaches in the state and is tied for fourth all time with six Indiana High School Athletic association state titles.
Under his leadership, Jasper has also finished as a state runner up four times and captured 12 semi state, 17 regional and 27 sectional titles.
His program has produced 15 players who went on to play NCAA Division 1 or professional baseball, including MLB hall of Famer Scott Rollin and former NFL quarterback Matt Mauch.
Gilbert's contributions to Indiana baseball were formally recognized with his induction into the Indiana Baseball hall of fame in 2007, affirming his place among the state's most accomplished high school coaches. Let's welcome Terry Gobert to the podcast.
[00:03:22] Speaker B: Here.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: Terry Gobert, 2026 ABCA hall of Fame inductee but heading into 39th season at Jasper High School. Six time Indiana state champ, fifth coach in history, Indiana history to reach the 912 win plateau.
But highest winning percentage among active coaches in Indiana now. But when in the Indiana Baseball hall of fame in 2007 and actually you and Nick were on the podcast with me. I had to, I had to dig in. So if you want to go back in and listen to that father and son episode, I think it's 2020 so it doesn't seem like that long ago but yeah, that's crazy. It was so Terry, we go way back. Thanks for jumping on with me.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: Hey Ryan, I appreciate it. I appreciate you having on. You're the busiest man in show business so I'm glad we can make this work.
[00:04:06] Speaker A: What has changed about baseball in southern Indiana for you over the course of your career?
[00:04:11] Speaker B: I think one, the facilities are so much better just everywhere for Indiana has some outstanding not just southern Indiana but when I look back when I started it was amazing where you'd play a baseball game and one thing we've had like you know now we play Evansville because we're in the cycle where we four we just played say Memorial for a while there or Central and you have a lot of coaches for a long time there that stuck around. You see that continuity that you don't always find in baseball especially in Indiana and one the facilities to the baseball in general for me is it used to be playing for your team, playing for your school. That was it. You know you, when you give them your uniform and Jasper now we're very fortunate. They probably get like five different tops and three different paths pants and two different hats or three and it's not doesn't match up to their travel gear they've been getting since they were eight years old. You know they were my spikes with my initials, where's my name on my glove. And I think we fight a lot of that. Just it used to be pure and simple and my goal is to play for my high school and that part of the game has changed a lot. You see a lot more that individuals showcasing in the old days. I mean you grew up around some hard nosed coaches and that's just what you saw, you know, I mean it was, it was your high School baseball team and then some guys had nowhere to play if it weren't for Legion ball. So the biggest thing for me is the changes and facilities.
So many upgrades, so many more lighted fields, the high school level and also just the kids.
One of my most difficult thing is you got to give them the buy in just for high school baseball. You know, it'll take care of, you'll be showcased. You play up in Indianapolis under the lights.
I've had many a guy leave the state finals with scholarship offers that had nothing going into that weekend. So it still does exist. But that's the biggest change for me.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: Ryan, what are the similarities? It seems like Indiana, especially in the southern Indiana region, still seems like players are impacting at the college and pro level just like they they always have been coming out of Southern Indiana.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I think one we, we have a better climate than the northern part of the state. It still is. There's so many more indoor facilities and like that that you see. But for example, you know, I got to Coach Scott Roland 4 years early in my career. How many kids are 6 foot 4, can really hoop it up, score 30 a game if they want and they love and want to pursue baseball.
Phil Kendall, 6 foot 4, drafted, what fifth or sixth round, you know, love baseball. Neil Giesler played a South Carolina 6 foot 5, could scored 30 game and hoops, love baseball, went on to play. So I think we have a pocket around here where our high school baseball and just baseball itself.
A lot of kids want to keep playing, but there are a lot of kids from Indiana. You know, sometimes I don't even catch it. I we're trying to promote it better because you turn on the World Series and here's a kid from Bloomington north coming into pitch, you know, and most people would be like, no idea. You know, I think I wish that every to me, every time I see somebody debut at the big league level, I just think there's some high school coach right now.
He doesn't need credit, he's not going to get credit. But they're really proud that this kid is able to make it to that level and pursue his dream. So I just think there's a good emphasis on baseball around here. I just think it's coached so much better. It's the tournament now. Used to be you might have a couple programs in each section. All that you're like, okay, now I go into a section. I feel like every school works at it. Every school has a coach with passion and I think that's improved so much it makes it more difficult, but yet makes it more rewarding, too.
[00:07:47] Speaker A: Is youth baseball still good? I always felt like that was maybe the thing about that area is that the youth baseball for me was good. I felt like the instruction was good and I felt like it was competitive.
[00:07:59] Speaker B: Well, here's what's changed. I was at the IU game yesterday, tailgating, and family from Fisher shout out iu.
[00:08:05] Speaker A: They went to being just okay to really good. Now.
Holy cow.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: I've been going for 50 years, Ryan. The part I don't like, now it's crowded, it's expensive, expensive. And people left at halftime because they were bored because they're beating ucla. You know, I just. What is wrong with these people?
But my point was I was talking to there from Fishers, Indiana, and I just started out, they have its son, it's seventh grade. And I said, what. What options do you have?
What can he play? Youth? How does it work? And see, we're the last of the pocket. We have little league baseball. I've been on the board for almost at least 35 years. I'm involved daily. My son is 31, 30 years old or whatever.
I have nothing to do except that's the hand that feeds us. And there's not any programs around. I mean, you go right to state and I'm really, really concerned about baseball. I think if we hang in there, it's going to come back because you need that mix. And one thing we did years ago, I want to say about 20 is at least 20 years ago, right? 25 years ago, travel kind of got introduced to Jasper. Unlimited level special kids. And we're like, we got to make a decision here. We can just say no, travel league only, or we can adapt. And so the biggest thing that's happened in our league is there's a lot of kids that travel as well. And they may not pitch in our league, but we're still offering that. And it needs to be available, I feel like. And it's not a slam against tennis, but you got to have some money to play tennis or somebody's got to do all the lessons, all the tournaments. And we need to keep baseball available for every kid. I mean, you think it'd be an inner city problem, but all the area towns around here have dropped their little league. They don't even have it. So kids got to get on travel. And then my concern is, you know, I talk to our teams, our youth all the time, and I say, I'd rather have a kid. Say, you're 10 years old. I'd rather have him go to bed wishing he could play more baseball than dreading playing baseball this weekend. So I think it's a big concern and I think baseball's trying hard to, to make it work. But I'm really proud. I mean, I think we have 8, 11 and 12 year old team still local. To me, baseball is being able to ride your bike to the field, watch the games, no matter who's playing that night, and then win or lose, go to Dairy Queen. And we still do that. At the high school level, how are.
[00:10:19] Speaker A: You managing the workload then at the youth level? I think that's our biggest concern here too is there's no way to track if a kid is pitching for his travel team as a, as a 10, 11, 12 year old and then they do come play the rec league and they also pitch. Like that's always been our biggest concern here with the youth side is there's really no way to track that. So how are you communicating that to your parents and the youth players that, hey, if they pitch for this team, they're not coming back and pitching for the other team?
[00:10:47] Speaker B: Well, we started with. They actually filled out a form from the travel weekend. I threw, not innings. We had to work on this. Thank you. Did you throw?
[00:10:56] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: Well, I was slow to develop that myself, you know what I'm saying? Because for years you're just brought up Little League if you had two horses, you know, my son, Nick Gobert and Marquise are Both played Division 1 baseball as pitchers and players and they were on the same little league team one through three innings, the other one through the next three, and then the next Thursday, you know, whatever.
And they're supposed to start out with an actual form and they give it to their coach and then it became communicate, verbal. So they go over our meeting in the Little League and preseason.
You are to ask going into, you know, the week, I mean, how many pitches you throw, how many innings did you throw, what day did you throw? Did you throw a bullpen? And the best thing we have going for us is so many of our youth coaches are former players of our program. I mean, that's the beauty of a town of. I think we're 17,000 now. But, you know, one of my proudest things is to just go out to the, walk around the fields and now we have four lighted little league fields. It used to be one, you know, and just walk by and hear them practice using the same terminology. You know, it's almost like a dad. If you live long enough to Hear your kids quote you and mean it. It's a great feeling. So it is a concern, it is a problem because we get at the high school level, you know, they in Indiana now, we can have fall baseball two times a week for a period. It just ended a week ago.
And you can go two hours of baseball twice a week and never even think about this. You know, we're going, we don't live scrimmage, we don't pitching, but we scrimmage with a pitching machine or we want to throw pens, we want to see what the kid looks like.
And Brian Kirkhoff's our pitching coach and Brian is a smart man. He'll say, when did you throw last? Well, I haven't pitched Well, I threw 50 on my lessons yesterday. That type of thing, you know, that you don't just think about games. But then they go to pitching coaches, they go to specialists, they go to showcases. You know, hey coach, I'm going to showcase. When is it? Sunday. When's the last time you even threw a ball? About five weeks ago.
You know, and I thought we had pretty good program and I thought we communicate pretty well. But it's still out there. It's, it, it, it just amazes me sometimes. And it happened to my own son. I thought I kept a close watch on him. And I got, I only got to, you remember the days of coaching, you just can't get away. So I go to watch him in the tournament and it was in Greensburg, but it's, you know, two hour haul and I got to see him on Sunday and another dad came up and said, probably ought to get him out there. And I said, what do you mean he's throwing the ball? Well, he said, late through Friday night through Saturday.
And so I went down, I tried to stay out of things up to that point, you know, it's tough. And I said, hey.
Anyway, they explained to me that he said he felt fine. I said, well, he's 13 years old, he could be cut off at the elbow and he, he could sling it.
And the point where they gave me, well, if we win this, we're in the championship game. I said, how about you pull him and I'll buy you a band sized trophy, bigger than life, six foot trophy. Even if you get runner up, you know, you can take that home. But so you would think as a coach you would know and it just happens. Kids are so competitive and they don't communicate very well because they don't want to say no at any age. Now I'm not Throwing that guy under the bus. He's a good man. Gave a lot of time for our kids, but.
[00:14:14] Speaker A: But that's what a lot of the youth coaches go off of as well. He told me it was fine.
[00:14:18] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Every time now. And it's a balance for us, Brian, at this level because you got some kids, kids that, when you played in the 90s, they believe they're fine and they would go through anything you could. You have kids today. They make.
[00:14:34] Speaker A: John Ambrose would have taken the ball every game if Coach Merkel would have let John Ambrose pitch every.
[00:14:39] Speaker B: John Ambrose when he wasn't on the mound. It never upset me if he wasn't on the mound. But you got to watch because I told kids, you know, the difference? You know, is it pain or is it just soreness, you know, as you throw? And so the analogy. I always ask kids, because I love multiple sport kids. And I say, okay, when you squat, maybe you haven't squatted as much. And football workouts start and you squat and you come back on Tuesday and you're sore on a Wednesday, do you tell the coach, hey, I'm sore. I can't squat today?
No. I said, well, we're the same boat now. If it continues to hurt, let's back off. But that seemed to resonate more with kids than any example. Trying to explain the difference, you know, between.
But I. I'm fortunate. I've had kids that played at a high level and they're helping with our program. You know, Andy Noblett was a heck of a pitcher. Your ear. Phil Kendall, and they both been my pitching coaches. And I'll ask him, when you were here, when you threw the ball, how many. How many starts did you have where you felt great? It'd be one or two a year. You know, the days of UAV with your dad. I don't. If he asked him if he needed massage so he felt good. Do you get what I'm saying? But you never have. You never feel great.
But there's a difference between just being tough, pushing a little bit, and pain. And at a young age, they have no clue.
[00:15:55] Speaker A: No idea what has switching to the SIAC done for y'. All. Do you like this?
[00:16:01] Speaker B: You know what I think? Yeah, I think one thing. And you know, we were in the Big Eight, and there's some good teams in the Big Eight. I mean, there's been a couple state championship teams in that for years, but at the end, it was nicknamed the Six Pack. There was only six of us in the Big Eight, kind of like The Big Ten little confusing, but we won. I think it was. We played what, five conference games and we won 35 in a row or something. And I'm not, you know, it's still good competition and we would save our top pitching then to throw that weekend.
I really felt we. When we came out of coven we won in Indiana, as you know, you have four classes and we had bumped up. We were the smallest school in the biggest class and we ended up winning the state. And I really felt a lot of it was from playing in the. I call it the cyac. I guess we're not allowed to down there. Southern Indiana Athletic Conference. But I learned a little more style. You go against Jeremy Jones, they're going to be fast and they're going to their mouths talk a lot more in the CYC than they did in the Big eight, if that makes sense. Big eights rule schools. You just kind of get after it and you not.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: That's an Evansville culture thing and that's.
[00:17:11] Speaker B: What I do not believe it.
[00:17:12] Speaker A: And smart trips to like it's not. You know, I would try to tell guys, I'm like there's a difference between a. Like a chirp and now I think it's just stay with your own team.
But back then that just was. The culture is guys talked a lot of smack to each other.
[00:17:27] Speaker B: I was stunned. My point's going to be it prepared us for the 4A state tournament. It wasn't anything. You know, when you play in the smaller class, if you have one kid mouth you on the other team, you're like. And then it's just non stop. And so I thought that adjustment and there's good coaches in that conference and there's some real talent. Just look at the draft picks that have been coming out of that conference alone. But the. That prepared us. That style of baseball that more aggressive prepared us for versus you know, maybe some of our games have been more like slow pitch softball. You just go up, try to slug it out, get some runs. And you had to be prepared for more stuff. More.
You go into 4A, it wasn't a huge shift to me except deeper arms, deeper staffs. You know, you can have some real studs in 1A, 2A, 3A.
But you know, we played in the state title of the game this year and 3A and they run five guys in a row, upper 80s, 90s out of the bullpen and none of them play. None of them play position. And so I thought that prepared us a lot for that type of baseball. And when by the time we went through the tournament in 4A, I felt it really did prepare us. I gave him credit right there on the spot.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: Now that you've switched to turf, what are some of the differences between turf maintenance and natural maintenance?
[00:18:43] Speaker B: You know what, when it's early, nothing shows up. You just, you know, it's brand new. As Coach Howard, you know, Coach Howard said, yeah, it looks good now take a look at three or four years, all the worn out spots and I'm the same thing. I no one took more pride in their field than I did. I mean, I got a bigger kick out of being the only school in Southern Indiana playing on a given night.
Just I don't know what it is about having a field and I was really worried about that. This our first year, this past year to have a turf field and you lose that, you know, we spent more practice time fixing the mound and home and the third base and no lips and I just lived up there and I was really worried about that. And it is a concern because kids just show up, you turn the lights on, put the bases out, you know, the first practice. Ryan, we always tell them, all right, I always say put the field to bed. That's my term for any level. It tarp it, drag it, do all this.
And they were honest in like 18 seconds. Well, that's usually when we wrap up practice, talk to us staff, you know, we got like a 15 minute window of saying, what did you think? What'd you think? And there they were just waiting for wisdom. And I was like, holy cow.
But the greatest thing for me is practice. And not enough people talk about that. We missed zero practices last year to rain. In fact, Chris McIntyre, good friend of mine, coached at New Albany, excellent coach and he said, you got to watch it Terry, or you'll practice every day. And you don't realize sometimes those rain get in the weight room quick little throw, whatever and get out of there. Just are great mentally. And he was spot on. You actually have to watch it because, but it's just, I mean there was one day last week it rained Monday night, all night, all day. Tuesday stopped at 3:05 and 3:15. We're on our field practicing.
That part is just blessed. But I still don't like it.
[00:20:31] Speaker A: Still have a practice field. That's natural though, correct?
[00:20:34] Speaker B: Yes, yes we do. And it's going to be the best kept JV field in the world because I don't know what to do with myself as far as I, I, we took on a project if I Can go there real quick.
We are friends of Jasper baseball. We've been around since mid-90s and we just do things for baseball to 501C and we've done a lot of projects. We built our field house up there that, you know, we have four tunnels and locker room and I mean, it's a beautiful facility. All donated by private, you know, industry and people and built by volunteers. So we added to our field. I talked about it at our banquet. It's just been a goal of mine to. I wanted a turf wiffle ball field.
I put a wiffle ball field up. It's been four years ago across the hall. You know, it's labor day weekend and my wife gave me that, what are you going to do today? And so I'm going to put a wiffle ball field up.
She made it very clear wasn't going to be in our yard anymore. We had two houses in Jasper. They both have had unique wiffle ball fields. Kids from the neighborhood live there.
We truck in lighting from all over the world. I said, no, just put across the street. The school owns the land across the street. I literally live across from my JV field. I take a scooter to work or a golf cart. It's a great life.
So I put this field up and we went for a walk. She goes, who's going to use this field? I'm like, I don't know. Anybody got some bats and balls? We come back from our walk about an hour later and there's nine bicycles. This is around Covid. Kids actually got back to them and they go, hey, coach, who's this? I. I don't know. They go, can we use it? I said, yeah. And I just looked at my wife. I said, well, I guess that's going to. So now even the national Guard use this field. I. I come home, I was in my hot tub at one in the morning one time and some kids pulled their pickup trucks up and I yelled at them, just joking, and they're like, is that all right? I said, yeah, we don't have any neighbors. There's woods around it. So this leads into. At our banquet two years ago, I just said, I have this. A year ago I said, I have this dream. This I want before I'm done. I wanted outfield bleachers. I want a party deck out and left. And I said, I want a turf wiffle ball field that anyone and everyone can use. And about three weeks later, one of the grandparents pulled up. He said, how serious are you about this? So very. And his family helped get it started.
Ryan, we have. It's open.
I lock it up at night and I open it at six in the morning. We leave bats, balls out there. It's 95ft down the line. It's 103 to center.
The Moats group build it. They gave us a good break. It was all volunteers from then out. And then Holzman Electric came along so. Well, you need lights on this. And they put up. We have our own separate lighting system for it.
And I just. Sometimes I just cry. I just look at it because Wiffle Ball to me is everything about baseball. Youth growing up.
I have my groupies that are there every day all summer long. Some of them are never going to make it in high school baseball, but they're having their time of their life. So I didn't mean to run on that one.
[00:23:26] Speaker A: No, it's awesome. That's a story that people need to hear because I think that that's part of impacting your community in any way possible. And you've been, you've done that every step of the way along your journey as you've impacted that community every step of the way.
[00:23:40] Speaker B: Well, it's. I fell into a great place 1985.
I came down to interview. I've never been here. I was at DePaul University again. I was a graduate assistant basketball under Mike Steele, Great Coach Ed Meyer, 35 years head baseball coach under Coach Meyer for two years. And I took a JV job at Greencastle, where I'm from. And John Phallus, just one of the most fundamental coaches I've ever worked under. And Phallus got contacted by. This is before email and everything. Terry Brewer, legendary Hall of Famer, one time the Indiana leader and wins. Looking for a coach.
Came down here to interview in my 69 cheeseburger. We called it Special Deluxe. I had a bucket of water because it would overheat every so many miles. No air conditioning. I stopped at Long John Silver's to put on my shirt and tie. Never been to Jasper in my life. I walk in there, Ryan, and they have Miller Lite on draft at Long John Silver. And I not making a sub. I'm tying my tie, going, you have found your home. I meet with Don Knoblit and you know Coach Knob is in the Indiana Baseball hall of Fame. I coached his grandsons, his son.
And the second question he asked me, all the way down, I was going over my philosophy of education from IU School of Ed is this. This is the second question he asked me, said, do you Drink beer. I go, well, you know, I nailed it. I said on a hot day after mowing the yard, you know, because, well, you turn one down here, you've turned down a friend.
And I knew I'm not a big beer drink. I am but I mean that's not why I came here. But I knew I wanted to be in a community that works hard, plays hard. It was all German Catholic, just, you know, I've never seen a community work so hard anything. And the beautiful thing about here is if it's for the kids going to support it, they don't. I've had people hand me a check for a thousand or more and say, I don't really care for you. If it's going to the kids, I want to help. And you've been there, right? It doesn't matter.
Sometimes when you got raise money, you got to take a butt chewing and nod and just say yes. So I bet from your days of coaching your favorite donor. Mine is a grandparent. Has all granddaughters, they want to help out baseball. I'm willing to listen. And so it's just been a great setup from day one.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: I think I learned that from my dad. He raised. He built two stadiums by hanging out in establishments.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:52] Speaker A: Oh, he built two stadiums hanging out in establishments. And I raised more money than anybody in that Macomb area because of hanging out in establishments with people.
[00:26:02] Speaker B: Well, I've heard I've learned more baseball after everything shut down. Now you have. I'm drawing a blank. The clinics at night, the.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: Yeah, a hot stove.
[00:26:11] Speaker B: Thank you. Hot stove to me is Evansville, Indiana. Some good old boys from Legion ball and that group. You could do a whole podcast just on their impact on baseball in the area. But I learned more from all these clinics at every level in ABCA clinic after hours.
And don't get me wrong, people laugh at me, but I'm usually in the front and I usually just bring like some kind of energy bar and a couple things of water and I just stay in there and I go to every session because here's what I've learned.
When you read it and you think, yeah, I want to see that. I want to see. I won't name any names but a legendary pitcher. And all he did is drop some stories. But he never taught you anything. And then you got a guy. I've never heard of him. It looks kind of and it's phenomenal. So I've been surprised more times than I've been disappointed by the speakers and you. It's just the Way to learn. And that's the way to learn any setting. I mean, that's how I learn. You know, the ABCA is how I learned to fundraise. It's how I learned. What do you, what kind of practice gear do you have? What do you buy the kids, what do you provide? What do they do? How do you raise money?
I've met so many people there, they don't even know my name. I guarantee you is I ask a lot of questions and I'll, I'll leave a conversation. Sometimes I go, I don't think that guy even asked me where I'm from. But I think I know everything about him. And that's what I want to do. I just want to gain as much as I can. And that's the greatest place to do it. It's.
[00:27:35] Speaker A: Would that be your tip for taking over for a legend because you took over for a legend at Jasper of getting diving into the community? I mean, that's the old quote. It's like, don't follow the guy.
[00:27:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:45] Speaker A: Like now you are the guy because you are the guy now. But is that one of your tips for taking over somebody that's a legend is trying to immerse yourself into the community?
[00:27:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's easier to follow legend than it is. Okay, I'm.
[00:27:59] Speaker A: That's interesting to me.
[00:28:00] Speaker B: Ray Howard is Hall of Fame. He won over 80% of his games. He took a program that had been strong and we won. We went to the finals of 67, 68, the first two years of the tournament. Then it became who wants a job? When Mr. Knobley got out of it and Ray made it all about baseball, I would not be coaching baseball. I came down here for football. I wanted to be a basketball coach. It's never happened yet, but I came down here for football.
I found out I wasn't supposed to double up football. Their number one enemy, Jasper, was basketball and baseball and all the other. That's the way Coach Brewer did it, the old school, you know, and I learned so much from Ray. Just I didn't know the game could be coached. I just thought, good luck hitting this 90 mile an hour fastball. And that was it, you know, and I wouldn't be a good coach and I wouldn't be a baseball coach if I didn't work under Ray for two years. So my mom asked me, we, we made it to State my fourth year, 91, we got beat. Somebody tore up their tickets sitting right by my parents and they said, I'm getting tired of coming up here and getting beat. And my dad didn't say anything other than, you should be proud. You're coming up here.
But then my mom asked me because I was still single at the time, she goes, how can you coach when they expect so much? I said, mom, I'd rather be somewhere where they expect to win than just accept losing or expect to lose that would be even worse. So my point, not only about falling, Ray was fundamentals, Ryan. I didn't have to have a spring break policy.
You weren't going anywhere.
I was laid back compared to. To Ray. And I felt the same thing with Coach Brewer, and my friend Tony Aarons took over. I said, tony, it's a great situation because you can make it even better. And their expectations are high. And to me, that's how you look at it.
Somebody follows me. I think my strength, Ryan, is I'm not afraid to sit in public.
You're with your wife or some friends, and somebody comes up and want to talk. I don't take it as an insult. I mean, they get the cell phone out and they tell me how great their grandson's going to be. And he's five, he's fine. I go, yeah, I hope I can hang on that long. Somebody says, doesn't that bother you? I said, no, I'm glad they care enough about baseball so it doesn't bother me. I've been chewed out. I've been.
I'm not afraid to take heat. But I started. I was 5 and 8, and I benched my two best players who had colleges coming to look at them because their attitude wasn't good. And people say to me now, well, yeah, you can get away with that. Well, I did it when I was 25, 6 years old and 5 and 8, and a heck of a program. I got beat my first three years since. Nothing about it, but you know the area. It was Pike, Central Springs Valley and Bar Reef, three small communities that we're not supposed to lose to, right? I got hate mail. I got told, you know, this is the wrong guy.
You just got to believe in yourself. But I did it the way I thought was right from the beginning. And anybody can do that now. You can't come in 25 years old and just, you know, demand respect and power. You have to earn it. But I really think there's. You just. It's like anything in life. You take it, you look at it and go, okay, here's some positives. Expectations are high. I don't have to tell them, you're going to practice you're going to practice hard. I don't have to tell them, you know, we're going to enforce the code of conduct. Back then, I don't even know if there was a written code of conduct, you know what I'm saying? In the late 80s, I'm sure there wasn't. Here. It was probably based upon how good are you?
So I, I, I, I'm thankful for a. And I was hurt at the beginning. He wasn't around hardly at all.
And later on, I learned he was trying to step back and just give me space and let me grow. And then when it really happened for me is in 1991, we did a huge renovation of our field.
I mean, we all, privately, we redid the bleachers. I mean, it's just absolutely beautiful. We put 750 down the right field line. That didn't exist. We took 100, you know, we had whatever, 1500, 200, 2000 seats back then, but we totally redid it. And I can remember sitting up there when everybody left, and I actually just sat there and drank a beer, and I felt for the first time, okay, I'm in charge of this program. And that took five years. I used to ask Ray, hey, are you okay if I change the stirrups at lunch? And he'd say, do what you want. And it took me a while to feel that because I had a lot of respect for him, the community. And then Tim Nante, who was a, a heck of a coach, a Hall of Famer in Indiana, told me, he goes, now you understand how a farmer feels when he's out in his field. It's just there's something about a baseball field, once you put your stamp on it, does that make sense? That's part of the reason I didn't like turf, because some strangers came from out of state, just laid down this putting green and left. You know, I had to take ownership again because that's why I think we did the renovation outside the stadium. And, and we have a beautiful park named after our daughter. And it's just, I just, I. My goal is, before I leave here, when you come over, you should feel like you take your shoes off when you enter the gate.
My goal is we 10 run you and you leave saying, I like that place, I like that program. That doesn't always work that way, but, you know, it's something to shoot for. Does that make sense? Yeah, we want to do it right. That's the one thing we do.
[00:33:00] Speaker A: You've had some special players come through there, but how do you balance, you know, Matt Mock, Scott Roland, you can go down the laundry list, but how do you balance those guys and how good they are, but also what's best for the program. You mentioned benching to your best players. Like, how do you balance that?
[00:33:17] Speaker B: Yeah, you make exceptions. Like, okay, roland graduated in 93, and we went to state when he was a sophomore in 91. That was my fourth year of coaching. So I had Scott my third, fourth, fifth, sixth year of coaching. I, I, I just, I wasn't even married, you know, I was, I think, 31 when he graduated or something.
And I'm not gonna. Like, when he had guys there to watch him play. He got more swings in bp. I mean, we just explained it. He's wearing a cape. You're not. We're gonna try to help him. You know what I'm saying? But I went ahead with my lineup.
Scott started his career in right field. Little known fact, and I basically said, would you like to play in the infield? Said, yes, sir. I said, well, then start working.
He always worked, but he had no idea. I'm not saying I made him, but when you have to keep an open mind and do that. But here's the beauty of Matt Mock. He won the state 96 thanks to Phil Kendall.
He was our horse. Mark was pitching, but he followed Roland. So I had Roland for three years, Mark for three years at third base. Mock ends up signing with Michigan State, Nick Saban football scholarship as our quarterback. Played for the Cubs, minor league for maybe four seasons.
And he moved from third base his senior year to center field and had to become a pitcher for us.
And at the state championship, he tops 90 mile an hour for the first time in his life. He wins Mr. Baseball 1997. He wins the Mental Attitude Award at the state finals, and he's drafted fifth or sixth round. I, I'm sorry, I don't. I could look it up, but I meet with his parents, and his mom says, well, a lot of people said, hurt him in the draft, you moving him. But I guess it worked out all right. It worked out all right. I'm like, I would take a son. It's Mr. Baseball, mental attitude Award winner, or, you know, drafted. But not every parent will do that. The Romans left him to me, you know what I'm saying? They, they kept an eye on him or whatever, but it's a different world now. If I had a guy that talented, I'd probably be dealing with, you know, Colson Montgomery as an example. Five, six miles away and good contact. But they got people looking out for him a little more but you know, good family wins and I was just blessed because they did whatever we wanted. I made Scott bought one time his senior year and I go after the game I go, what do you wondering why I made you bunt? He said, yes sir. He's kind of laughing. I go, I don't want anyone ever wearing Jasper uniform and saying they never bunted once in a single game. So that might have been my one victory there. But just tremendous people to coach and they did anything for a team. I could go on and on about kids making switches and playing out of position, doing, you know, I just don't worry. I don't think my job is to showcase kids for college. My job and I believe this and others feel differently and I respect it. My job is to put the best, most competitive team I can out for Jasper High School. And I'm going to help you. I'm going to do anything, I can help you. But Ryan, if you're.
Just because you played second base in high school doesn't mean a college coach can't look at you and say like I, I've never played a shortstop in a pitcher ever. Ray didn't. I haven't sold for 49 years.
We've never had a kid, you know, take off his glove, get his pitching glove. Andrean did and Mr. Baseball and he got the final out and it's still championship game against it. I'm not saying it can't be done, but we've always gone third base, first base pitcher. Just I want my center fielder whenever possible, my shortstop to be out there every pitch, every inning. So over the years I've taken an average shortstop over a flashy really good one every time and it seemed to work out pretty good.
[00:37:01] Speaker A: I like the acronym win. What's important now in your career at this point? What's important now?
[00:37:08] Speaker B: What's important to me, number one, is I want to go up there. People ask me all the time. Not all the time, but a lot.
How long are you going to go? I have zero goals as far as wins. I don't need a thousand. I don't need. I don't, I don't. I couldn't tell you right now what we have and I say we because there's a lot of people involved.
So my number one goal is I'm never going to coach. If I don't want to go up to practice, if I dread a practice, if I'm not excited to hand that lineup in and shake hands, you Know, with the other coach and the umpires, it's time for me to step aside and I. I hope it doesn't come.
One of the best things. I don't mean to get political. When Covid happened, it could be. It's not my fail forward moment, but it was. It was like a trial retirement for me because I was at that point in my career and I was. I missed it so much. I miss baseball, but I miss coaching and so many other guys. I talked, I love it. I'm getting paid, I'm playing golf and I'm talking about college coaches. I'm talking about some really good coaches. And every one of them just said, oh, I think it's a. I'm not getting into aspects of COVID I'm just saying the fact we couldn't do it, does it make sense? I don't ever want to downplay, but my point is I missed it so much. I knew, hey, I'm not ready to get out. Does that make sense? So to me, I couldn't wait to get back at it. It's something. Something's taken away from you.
It gives you the opportunity like, you know, I don't want to. I've never set a goal in retirement. Even as a teacher people, I think we have a Rule 85 and combine your age and your years experience and I think I've blown that away. I think I'm at 104. So I think could get my retirement.
But I like walking in the door. You know, there's so many people I teach with Ryan that I only got 17 more years. And I think I made a girl cry.
[00:38:53] Speaker A: She awful headspace to be in. Well, I love the fact and I ask like, how do you re engage? Like, you don't need to re engage because you love it so much and you're so passionate about it. It's almost like you don't even have to worry about a re engagement where there are some people out there that do have to re engage with all of it and do find that love and passion. But you like, you just have it.
[00:39:12] Speaker B: Well, that's what I told this girl. I wasn't trying to. I'm usually pretty direct, but I said, you need to get out. Now, you either need to figure this out or do yourself a favor. Number one, you're not a bad person. But if it's not for you, because teaching is not for everyone. And I'm not sure it's for me.
[00:39:25] Speaker A: I'm married to one.
She's special human being because it's not for everybody.
[00:39:31] Speaker B: No, it's not. It's not something you can just kind of fake. The kids can read kids. If a dog can read human beings, you know a kid can do it. That's the way I kind of look at it. And I said I don't mean this mean but you're not helping the kids, you're not helping your family, not helping yourself. There's something better for you out there. I said I'm. And I didn't mean somebody, you know, they gave me.
[00:39:50] Speaker A: Yeah, but life is short. Like I like for somebody that. Do you really want to. Do you really want to punch the clock for the next 35 years and like make yourself miserable every day going to a job that you don't really enjoy? Like I just don't see it. Like life is way too short to spend any amount of time day after day of dreading doing something. Like you can't do that to yourself.
[00:40:14] Speaker B: Right. We all have situations we got to grind through.
[00:40:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:17] Speaker B: Not sustained and not like you said.
I, I have an expression. I said you don't want to be one of those people that if you die first they're going to put I wish I had a bowl of ice cream.
You know. Unfortunately I take it to the hilt. But my point being you've got to enjoy the prospect. You got to enjoy it. I mean I just don't understand that part. It's not like everything's been smooth and you know if that you grow and it's tough you find out later but that's. They're making education difficult. You know, I'll take a kid. I used to never send a kid to the office. I just handle it myself.
You know, I send him down there, he beats me back to the room. You know, you're like, but I'm in still in a good school corporation. But I hate to see so many teachers get bashed, you know just because you know, take Chicago and they judge everybody by what's happening with some teachers unions.
There's so many good teachers out there every town. You mentioned your wife. And we have a lot of heroes right here that aren't coaches that aren't well known and they've been not punching the clock but just you know, making a difference in kids lives. I mean how many jobs could you have where you literally good or bad have impacted thousands just in the classroom, you know after you take a. Last year I had 180 kids directly in my six classes take that times 41. You know I teach juniors. There's the u. S. History. But that's a lot of people, good or bad. But not many people get to live a life where you even make contact with that many people. Does that make sense? So I've never taken the teaching part light. I may not be the greatest teacher, but, you know, I'm saying I. I get after it. I've been the department head for, I don't even know, 25, 30 years, and I love it. But I think they want me out because I think you can hire three teachers now for what I'm making.
[00:42:01] Speaker A: So how are you mentoring the. The new teachers? Because it is a different landscape. How are you mentoring them?
[00:42:10] Speaker B: Yeah, that the biggest thing we tell them is don't be afraid to make mistakes.
Don't be afraid to be wrong.
But admit it, you know what I'm saying? Don't try to lie to kids. Don't tell them, you know, I've taught something and then doing a little research turns out, and actually, that wasn't, you know, I'll tell them I said here, first time since 91. But I was wrong. You know, you have to be human. And I think some of these kids come out. I remember when I went through my student teaching or the training before I left IU and the people getting the a's did the perfect notebook and cut out all the little, you know, binders and paste and made it real pretty and then got blown away in her student teaching and never taught again. Or, you know, we have to be prepared for anything. That's the beauty of teaching. But the fact that you got to just have a daily goal, what do you want to get through?
And the biggest thing to me is you got to believe they're listening, even though they give you no indication whatsoever that they're listening, because they come back to you later if you get to teach long enough and say, you know, you were right when you said this, and you're. You've had these moments, I'm sure, with your own kids. My dad used to say, that's it. That's what you remember all the things I taught you, you know, you know what I'm saying? But that's the way kids are. They. They are listening. They just don't show it sometimes.
[00:43:29] Speaker A: Do you think the phone's done that to this generation where they're scared to make mistakes?
Because I like, I view that as like, the culture of the phone is like, somebody could take a video of you or you post something online and it might come back 20 years. I think it's Created some scared human beings because people think that if they do make a mistake, it's going to come back to them at some point.
[00:43:50] Speaker B: Well, Ryan, that's why I don't dance at weddings anymore. Even out of town. I'm a. I'm all what I call a headphone dancer. Where you look and go, that guy must have his headphones, listen to a different song than what the band is playing because. But I like it. I don't do it anymore because everybody has a phone. And then you could have one half a beer that night. And you were hammered and you were, you know, and for some reason, teachers and coaches are held. You could be the CEO of a major corporation. You're cutting loose in most cases. But not an educator, not a. Not a baseball coach. If you know, you carry a title far greater.
Anything you do impacts, even has nothing to do with the school or the program. Anything I do reflects on that. Does that make sense? And that's something that's not easy.
But I came back. I was going to retire about two years ago. And we got rid of the phones.
You could, you could not have it from eight to three. We had a principal let them happen in the hallway. Communication ended zilch. You look in your room from the hallway because we're supposed to be both places. We're supposed to monitor the hallway and also control our room.
Every kid, 31 of them just sitting there till the bell. Then they put it in the pocket and get it back out. So first thing, they check.
We got rid of it and their backpacks. And it totally changed the culture of the school.
This is the second year, even the kids, they're still mad about the backpack because they don't want to go to their locker. They want to carry the books. But the phone. Even the kids admitted, wow. You see them talking to each other now? Because I always tell them, what's going to be your memory? I can remember stuff from. I'm not going to name the names, but something happened with this kid or that kid and they have none. They're just locked in, you know, texting away. And it's been beautiful. You see kids in the hallway. You see kids talking to each other, laughing, looking at each other. It's been great.
[00:45:38] Speaker A: Love it.
How special is it the. The Indiana state championship still north versus South.
[00:45:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I guess I take things for granted. Everybody makes the tournament in Indiana. That doesn't happen everywhere. It's single elimination.
We won a couple that we would never have won if it was a double elimination. You Know, and you're saying, grab the trophy and get out of here before they figure this out.
But it is a thing. It's, you know what? Our conference this year had three out of four, right? Evansville, modern day Evansville north and, and Jasper Wildcats were up there. And unfortunately it didn't go our way this year. So when you go to the All Star series, it's north versus South. There's pride in that. We swept up the north, by the way, again, if you want to know. But when you're talking and hanging out, it, it, it's viewed as south versus North. And so this year the north had better baseball. You know, I, I just think it's the way it should be. I, I, I really like it.
[00:46:33] Speaker A: What does this mean, going into the ABCA hall of Fame?
[00:46:38] Speaker B: I, I got the call, I didn't answer the first two times. And then because I just figured is you want money or something? No, it's, I, I just thought it was the wrong number. Spam, you know, why would anybody.
And then they left a message just to, you know, call or reach back or whatever. And I was alone. And I, I don't, I don't cry much, but I actually started crying because I never even thought about it. I'm not one of those, oh, you know, humble. What I don't, I don't never even thought about it, Ryan, if that makes sense. Because ABCA and I, I mean this with all due respect. You know, years ago they saw the college baseball and they were kind enough to open it up. High school guys could go. We used to have it, but during the lunch, two or three high school guys, I believe I'm right on that, you know, I'd go to different conferences, but, and it was great. And I, I have been to that banquet. I've gone from, every time I go to a clinic, I go to that banquet. I always buy two. My son doesn't usually want to go.
And I go and I just stay for that. I could give you, if you need the times. I time every speech, the Indiana High School hall of Fame banquet and the abca.
And I just watch those guys and just think, wow, how cool is that? The impact and to see the pride they have and, you know, the, the stories they tell. And so I, I'm so appreciative, but I feel like I'm just representing not only Jasper, but high school baseball because there's so many good coaches that, and you know this through your job that are just in a pocket somewhere.
So I, I look at it like that. But they said, can't tell anyone.
So I didn't tell my wife.
So what is it, six months later? I didn't tell my son. He knew it before. I knew it because I was waiting. If you're gonna. Well, what happens? I start getting texts from people.
[00:48:27] Speaker A: I saw Nick last year. I went and watched Indiana State play in Greenville. So Nick and I were at the hotel, and we were talking about it. About not being able to tell anybody.
[00:48:38] Speaker B: Yeah. But I didn't tell Carolyn, my wife. I didn't tell anyone. And when the news came out, I'm like, oh, crap.
And so I told my wife, hey, yeah, I heard something about it. She goes, nice picture. Why didn't you. That's the best they can do. I go, oh, okay, Ryan, this is terrible. I have. In my school email account, I have 22, 000 unread emails. I just thought it was spam.
They asked for a picture. I didn't.
She asked me this morning, see if it's too late to change your picture. I'm like, anyway, I didn't send one on.
[00:49:11] Speaker A: I don't think we've sent off the proofs yet. For the. The hall of Fame area, you'd have.
[00:49:15] Speaker B: To look really hard.
[00:49:16] Speaker A: The legends area, you might want to send one off and I'll get it out.
[00:49:21] Speaker B: Well, I think I have a beer and I'm smoking a cigarette. No, I've never smoked in my life.
[00:49:24] Speaker A: Terry, you mentioned that.
[00:49:25] Speaker B: I just can't believe it.
[00:49:26] Speaker A: Some of it is, like, because Andy Noblet got the process going. Because Andy. For people that don't know, Andy Noblet was a college teammate of mine at. At Evansville, and Jasper and Memorial were two really huge rivals. Andy was ahead of me, but Andy reached out, and I'm like, hey, there's a process. I think sometimes it's just people don't know there's a process. Process to nominate people. Because with you, I'm like.
Like, you go through it every year. I'm like, they're not in already.
Like, and. And that's. You're one of those guys where you just. I think people just kind of assume that they're in already. But. But people haven't done the. The nomination process.
[00:50:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Because I think Jeremy Jones did a lot, too. And there were some other guys that lied for me. And.
[00:50:07] Speaker A: Stop.
[00:50:07] Speaker B: Oh, well, I. I'm just saying it.
Let me.
I.
You gave me a opportunity of a lifetime on the brain. Or Brainstormers. Barnstormers.
But I had my Nick, my son, Is assistant at Indiana State.
And he has given us two grandsons. One of them's only a few weeks old. Month old. And they were coming to the tailgate. I didn't want to miss it. It was a hard time.
[00:50:32] Speaker A: Like life. Life is more important. Yes. It would have been great to have you come speak.
But, you know, people know Terry was supposed to speak at the Butler Barnstorms a couple weeks ago, but he had family stuff. And you were like, apologizing. I'm like, no, don't. Like, don't apologize.
[00:50:48] Speaker B: I thought you were you. You're a salesman. And you came at me pretty hard. I was working at the Indiana Baseball hall of Fame. Scramble at salt is run and Coach Howard, you know, runs it. I'm like. I go. I want to do. I want to tell you, like, argument with my wife. Because you've been aggressive from the day I met you. You and your brother. I used to. I used to call your brother the apper. He would.
I. I can remember going into the state clinic and you guys were helping your dad. I can't remember the year. Remember Sterling and used to be brewed right there in Evansville.
[00:51:21] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:51:21] Speaker B: And they had a. Okay, telling a story, but they had a bathtub full of Sterling iced down that they donated, you know, to take to the state clinic or whatever. And your brother gave me one of those. And I said, I'll.
I won't tell you what I actually said, but basically said, I'll stick with my Budweiser. But I don't blame you.
[00:51:40] Speaker A: Sterling was terrible.
[00:51:42] Speaker B: My point is there's so many people involved in it, and I am not one of those guys that, you know, Lou Holtzit and this on that I'm humble. I just didn't even understand it because I've had some things happen in my life where I had to turn down some opportunities. You know, I hear guys talk about coaching and usa, usa, all kinds of clinics. And that was one of those time periods in my life where, you know, you want to talk about changing your life. I had to choose to stay home, dealing with family a couple different times. And no regrets, but I would have loved to been more active. And I'm. I don't know why I can't be active. Even as I get older, I see so many people that clinic that I just enjoy meeting them. I don't even know who they are sometimes. So you can tell, hey, this guy's been coming here for 45 years with his wife. He's my hero. I don't Think Carolyn's ever been to one. And it, it just, it blows me away to hear their story and see what baseball has done in their life. Coach Howard is the same way. It, it's been his love affair of his life. His wife, his children, but the game of baseball and there aren't other sports like that. So. Yeah, I'm, I still don't get it. I don't.
[00:52:53] Speaker A: But I do.
[00:52:54] Speaker B: I feel like I'm, I do though. I just feel like I'm representing so many high school and that's the beautiful thing about this association.
What you do now with travel, ball, youth, high school, it's a family and I, I hope that's a compliment. Get what I'm saying?
[00:53:10] Speaker A: And that's our, that's our biggest goal is to bridge, bridge it for everyone. I don't care if it's a big league coach on down to the mom and dad that's trying to figure this thing out for the first time and how to coach a five year old kid.
I feel like we have the ability to bridge the gap to the entire baseball community. The entire.
[00:53:31] Speaker B: I see it, Ryan.
You go into the vendors area and you see so many families now.
[00:53:36] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:53:37] Speaker B: And not just coaches, sons, but daughters. And they're looking at equipment or they're joining them for that part. And that's what it's all about. I mean that's just. Your guys are growing the game like it's unreal.
My goal is to get more Indiana coaches involved in it because we do have a strong association and shout out.
[00:53:54] Speaker A: And great coaches too. Great.
[00:53:55] Speaker B: Oh, it's my.
Yeah. The guys that coach baseball in Indiana, the staff we have leading the Indiana High School Baseball Coaches association, the work they put in. We work with our association. We're not always happy with ihsa, but we re gear the next year so we have a good relationship versus, you know, years ago it seemed like it was all basketball and we were just kind of an afterthought. And the sport has really grown here thanks to the coaches association. What they do.
[00:54:24] Speaker A: Why are we seeing some of the fundamental mistakes at every level of baseball? And it's, it's major league baseball too. I mean you can go the first game of the World Series, there's an outmate at third on a, on an easy read. That was not a difficult read. Whether you go to third on that play or not. Why are we seeing some of the fundamental mistakes? Because it's at the highest level on down.
[00:54:44] Speaker B: Well, to me it's just not emphasized. You spend so much time just playing games.
You know, you go out and you play travel and then you run around the hotel and you get up. Very few teams are out there or you're going over things. Like, I think we, when we practice, it's, it's all fundamentals. I mean, it's just nothing but fundamentals. That doesn't mean we don't make mistakes, but I don't think it's emphasized and I think it's all about, you know, exit velocity and how many cuts and what's this and what's the read. You know, you have kids now throw a breaking ball and they can't understand, hey, it broke in on his back foot. Perfect. They have to look at an iPad and see what, you know, all the data that we kind of lost. Just that feel for common sense. We worked. We had some freshmen and fall baseball come out and they don't know the basic. And we have a good feeder program, but they don't know the basics. You know, they don't know how to butt and they never work on it. Say, have you ever bued. No. How are you 14 years old? You've never bunted in your life. So I think a lot of it is they just spend so much time with games and then individual workouts and we kind of get away from and that. And I think we overcoach it sometimes.
You asked me about practice organization. Could you speak on that? I've been part of the reason.
I'm the guy that got up. We, we drive up. It's a two hour drive to the state finals. And I thought, well, while we're on the bus, I better figure out where we're hitting this afternoon. I didn't have a site for us to even take BP in Indianapolis. You would. Had it done six weeks before just in case. Yes or no?
[00:56:16] Speaker A: No, you weren't for me.
[00:56:19] Speaker B: It's that detailed.
[00:56:20] Speaker A: Yeah, but I think those are one of those things. Like you, you cross that off when you, when you, when you cross that bridge, you, you come to that. Like I, I don't like thinking too far ahead. I think you have to plan ahead for certain things. If you know, if you know there's certainty in those things happening. I do think you have to plan, but I, I do think you have to build in for some uncertainty too.
[00:56:40] Speaker B: Because. Yeah, I had an idea. I mean, I knew we'd gone up before, but I, I just. Trent, I don't have, like when we practice, I don't have a written practice schedule. My, my staff, I had A couple guys a few years ago go home basketball. I know that morning at 10, what we're doing, I said, you know, it's going to be 68 degrees or whatever it is and in a closed gym and you're going to have it for this time slot and everybody's going to be there.
We don't know. We have a practice plan and lightning shows up. We're scrambling and the dance team gets the extra gym and track and field, which is nine months away, gets the indoor. You know what I'm saying? You just, you're in the hallway, you're breaking it down. So it's hard to do too detailed. And then I, when I coached under Mike Steele in basketball at DePaul, he might have eight minutes for a drill. Doesn't matter what drill, 11 man drill. And you get it right for two minutes straight and everybody's, that's it. We just moved on. You know, you can have all the, why do eight minutes of Bunny and you still haven't learned anything. So that day we might do 25 minutes of bunny. You know what I'm saying? So I have a plan, but I love these guys. Phil McIntyre coaching all star game. With him, he had everything organized to what inning you're going to coach first and what inning you're going to do this and who's going to hit Fungos and what type of fun go.
I just tore it up. I said, just tell me where to go. You know, I just. Everybody's so different. That's what makes this game beautiful. We all have different style.
[00:58:00] Speaker A: Are you handling first and thirds or bunk coverages any different?
[00:58:03] Speaker B: What's that?
[00:58:03] Speaker A: I'm sorry, first and third plays are bunt coverages. Defensive wise, do you handle those any different now?
[00:58:09] Speaker B: No, no, I don't have anything great. I don't do a wheel play. I don't do, hey, we're going to do this. Step off and turn. I tell our kids we never did it.
[00:58:19] Speaker A: Memorial either handle the baseball.
[00:58:21] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. They now they'll crash the second baseman. And you know, I'm like, I even tell the other dugout we're not bunning and somebody's going to get hurt. You know, I'm like, I, I just found the one thing I don't, I tried to be better at. I said, why can't our right handers be at third base like a lefty is when you're at first, we never, you know, I mean, you tell the kid all the time, you know, now don't just step off, or they just give that real obvious fake. Why can't you be? And so every year, that's my goal. I've not had too many that are good at it, but no, we do the fundamental either. First is what I. What I've changed on my bunning over the years is first. Just stay home, pitcher, be athletic enough, come get the ball. If we are, you know, runner on third. Nobody at first and first can crash and pitcher can cover third. But I got too many big kids over the years that played first and end up in no man's land. Then my second baseman and, you know, you played time there. That's the hardest.
[00:59:18] Speaker A: It's the hardest thing to do to get there.
[00:59:20] Speaker B: So we just stay home and say, hey, go ahead, and you stay right there. You stay here and you keep him tight. And if they can execute, he can't stop it anyway. So now we have different stuff. But I. I'm amazed when we play some teams. I'm like, God, when did they cover it?
So, no, nothing fancy there.
[00:59:38] Speaker A: How gratifying is it for you that Nick's still coaching?
[00:59:41] Speaker B: Oh, you know what? I got to be careful. First of all, I had four daughters and Nick. First four daughters, proud of all of them. But to see him get where he's at on his own, like Ryan, I didn't even really help him. He wrote Division 1 schools, you know, when he was a player. I. I think I went so overboard not favoring him. I was so hard on him. I mean, you've been correct or not. Yeah.
[01:00:03] Speaker A: I think it's a great parenting point, though.
I do.
I think you handled him very similar to how my dad handled my brother and I, and we all found our way into baseball without, like, with being extremely hands off of it for. For two really good, successful head coaches were very hands off in the process, and all of their sons found their way into baseball.
[01:00:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it's the typical.
He's always been around it, and I've never. People. How do you get them love baseball? Never once. He played three sports in high school, you know, he won the male athlete of the year just because he played three sports. And whatever sport he was in, he loved. But to see him, you know, by the age of 30, be a top assistant at a good Division 1 program at Indiana State. Just so proud of my own people. People don't understand how hard that is. And Coach Archuleta's, you know, been so good to him. And they're a good team, but, yeah, who doesn't love it. You know, I think I had to back away from. I used to tell him, why don't you come here, be a defensive coordinator, offensive coordinator, football, great life, it's are gone so much. That's the part, you know, it's amazing, the recruiting and it's, it's not for everyone.
[01:01:17] Speaker A: It's like, it's kind of what you mentioned to that teacher a long time ago. If you are not fully immersed in that process and ready to love the whole all, all of it, do not do it.
Yeah.
[01:01:29] Speaker B: You can't fake it. But you got to marry, right too. Because, I mean, Nick's getting married. Haley took a job in Tennessee. Nick volunteered there at a juco Top top juco. And when you're saying he didn't make money, he didn't make a money. He didn't make a dime, he didn't make a penny. He got a used hat. But he put in 80 hours a week and ended up at, you know, out in Iowa at Indian Hills and they make it to the World Series and then, you know, it leads to good things. But you've got to marry. Right? Because I know when he met his future in laws, they're kind of like, okay, you had a job at this amount, now you're taking this job, you.
[01:02:07] Speaker A: Know, take the in laws out of it.
[01:02:09] Speaker B: No, no, but they want, I mean.
[01:02:12] Speaker A: That'S my tip too, with that too, like, because obviously they want what's best for their daughters.
[01:02:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what I'm saying.
[01:02:19] Speaker A: As the head of your household, you have to do what you feel like is best for the family. Whether they get it or not at that point. They're probably going to get it at some point, but I think that's the toughest thing with, with being married, having kids in our profession is you are going to have to make some decisions that people that aren't in that culture have no idea what you're doing or why you would make those decisions. Yeah, but it's a, it's a, it's kind of like being in the stock market. It's a, it's a slow burn.
[01:02:48] Speaker B: Well, two of my daughters graduated from University of Southern Indiana commencements. On the day of our hall of Fame tournament, we had four games, you know, hosting four games that day, playing in two. I'm not going to be at commencement. I talk to him.
What people don't know is I got up at 5:30 in the morning and met him for breakfast down in Evansville and, you know, gave him a note and told him how much I love him and proud of him, came back. But I told all my daughters, I don't want to get ready to walk you down the aisle one day and then you drop on me. You know, you love baseball more. You were gone this, this and this. You know, I, I missed the ABCA clinic because Laura's birthday is the 4th and a lot of times beyond the 4th. And when she was little, what kid doesn't want their dad there? So I didn't go. It's not a problem, you know what I'm saying? She didn't keep me from anything. It was a choice I made and probably doesn't even know that. But you do have to balance it and you have to understand it because it's, it's just, it's, it's crazy because I tell our parents in our preseason meeting, I say, you have one or three teenagers, boys, we got 48 or whatever we're carrying that year. You know, it, it can be overwhelming. But it is really cool that Nick, his passion for baseball, he doesn't ever have to do it. He doesn't have to worry about what job he takes or what type. It's whatever he wants to do. But it is a unique bond. And then see, he's on. He was raised old school and he's had to learn a lot of new school. And that's.
[01:04:16] Speaker A: Well, like I think to have that, that basis of, of what this is, I went through the same thing. You have this basis of what this style looks like and then you have to eventually evolve and find your own style with, with the ever evolving generation of players that you're coaching. But also the baseball industry is always evolving. I think that's just started part of evolving with the baseball industry, with the players, with the new technology that's out there. I think that's just part of it. And you're, you're a great example of evolving over time too because you're, you're a continual learner. You learn, you're a lifelong learner. You always are trying to get better. Yes, there's some things you've probably kept over the years. There's a lot of things that you've adjusted to over the years as well.
[01:05:00] Speaker B: Yeah, you have to. But you know, before the state championship game, our opponents got every kind of, you know, program there is. And they asked me about our kids spin rate and I said it was some reporters and I said I usually can see the first three or four rotations. After that, I lose track. They thought I was joking, but I. I couldn't tell you what a good spin rate is, but I know that's a good breaking ball. It's not. Somebody asked, well, how fast is your leadoff? Well, he's faster in that big kid here and that's why he bats lead off. But what's it matter unless I'm trying to place him. But the biggest thing I would tell any coach, all that stuff matters. But don't forget about heart.
You know, I'll give you an example. Nick is the slowest man in America. He'd probably be playing right now, but he goes to USI and he works on his Dayton. He went and he worked on his training is running and his junior or senior year at us, I think he was number two in doubles in division two in the nation and he was the eighth fastest guy. There's always a catcher in that nine spot. But in the lineup and it was just from hard work, discipline. That's why I'm proud of them. And sometimes guys don't measure that, you know, or they'll say, why didn't you tell me about this kid? Well, you want somebody that's going to come through, right? You want someone that's dedicated or has good habits or. So I think we've had a lot of kids do well that maybe were a surprise. I probably don't promote them as enough, but you know, as a high school wanting to play in college. But Ryan, a lot of our guys come to me and say, are you okay if I don't play in college? I'm like, it's a job, you know, better than I do. I only watch my son go through it. But lifestyle, these kids. Oh, I think it's.
[01:06:36] Speaker A: I think it's the. I think we have too many kids that are playing for not the right reasons.
[01:06:42] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, dad.
[01:06:42] Speaker A: Because. Because mom and dad spent all this money for me to continue to play. And this has been the ultimate goal for my family and not for me as a human being or. Or what my true interests are.
I think we see a lot more of that than we are that kids. And it's not just in baseball. It's in every college sport. It's the men's and women's side of it.
You have kids that really don't have any identity of who they truly are. And is this what you actually want for yourself?
I just think a lot of kids go into it because it's what they've always done and not because this is the lifestyle of what it's going to actually look like, like. And I do feel like that's why. Why we have a lot of depression issues with. With college athletes because they have no idea why they got into it.
[01:07:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I can remember back in the 90s, we had a heck of a stretch in the mid late 90s. And I'd be talking to a dad, and he's like, I hope he doesn't play but college baseball. And I talked to the son. I don't think I have to because my mom and dad want me to. And I'm like, do you guys ever talk? Now that I had kids, I get it better.
But it's the same thing. When I was young, I talked to the wives and they'd be complaining about their husband. I talked to the husband in another room to complain about. I'm like, you two ever get together? And that's really what. Like. I had a kid come to me and he.
He walked on a Division 1 school and they wanted to keep him. He wouldn't have money. This is years ago, you know, different scholarship.
And he was in tears and he wanted to be an engineer. And he said, will you be upset if I don't play? I said, I think you're crazy if you do play. I said, if you love it and want to do that, go for it, because you could do it. But no, there's no value to me. What. Some of my best favorite players hardly played. They weren't the best player, the one everybody names. They were just kids that worked hard, went from being a 150 hitter to a.280 that could put the ball in play and had passion, love to play. That's. We all have to quit playing at some point. You know, it's usually for most of it's, it's sooner than we want. But that's the beauty of this game. It's some point everybody has to, you know, take that uniform off, quit playing. That's the beauty of coaching. I mean, there's times I'm sitting there before Victory Field last year, we probably brought. And you know me, I'm. We brought 7,000 fans up. We have 17,000 total, and we're getting ready. We played the year after Covid, and we had. They estimate almost 9,000 people. They just opened. Victory Field is supposed to be half. But here's my point.
I'm getting ready for a game wearing a uniform at 63, 64 years of age.
Who gets to do that? You know what I'm saying? Who? It's. It's crazy. In fact, I argue with my basketball buddies in football, they should have to dress up.
[01:09:19] Speaker A: That would be awesome.
[01:09:19] Speaker B: Stand on the sideline with gear on because it does make you work out a little bit in the winter, a little harder. But it. That's just the beauty of it. I mean, you. You stand out there and you dictate so much of the game. It.
It's just overwhelming. But once the game goes, you want kids to be able to just take what you taught them and go. It's kind of like raising kids. You let them go and you go, oh, my God.
When you coach, did you have this feeling since the tournament, national anthems finishing up, oh, my God, did we cover this? This, this, this. Are they prepared?
It flashes. I don't dwell on it, but it would go through my head every game. Like, oh, my God, I hope I got these guys ready.
[01:09:59] Speaker A: No, I knew we covered it. And that was part of the trust process of the players. Now, if we did not execute something in games, then I was upset because then I felt like it was my fault that we didn't cover that game. For me, it wasn't pre game, it was post game.
[01:10:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I just. When maybe we host so many games in a tournament that you're focusing on.
[01:10:21] Speaker A: Yeah, but you've also gotten there too.
[01:10:25] Speaker B: But you get what I'm saying. You know, all these things have been in your mind. But let me tell you, my greatest anthem memory is Nick is in uniform. He's not if he's five. I'm standing next to me and he's singing the national anthem. And he says, you know, they brew through the night. I think it's gay proof. Through the night.
Every time. I've coached 2,000 games, probably Somerville on a day. I. I have that just pops in my head every time I just kind of grin inside. But he goes, what? That's what it was over. That's what the song says. So it's Babe Ruth through the night. In case you ever see Nick, just have a couple beers with him and then sing that line.
[01:11:03] Speaker A: You know, you mentioned Covid maybe being a fail forward moment. Do you have another fell forward moment?
[01:11:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I do.
That's one I just want to mention.
In 96, our second child, Sarah is born. We win the state, all right. 407 teams back then, single class. The next year, single class again, we win it again. And we're the only team ever went back to back in Indiana baseball in the whole history.
And then Sarah is diagnosed with leukemia. She fights it for 13 months. All right, A couple bone Marrow transplants, next to donor every time. Looking good.
In the 98 season, my wife and I made decision. Let's keep coaching, keep doing it. This is our life. This is what she loves. And she does make it okay. I'm not trying to ask for sympathy or bum anyone out. It's just life.
When you have a child die in your arms after a fight like that, you know, we told her, you, you go, you've done your job.
How do you get upset about arguments over playing time? How do you get upset about anything? You know, all you want to do is treat kids right. So I, if I ever had a parent have a good point where I did somebody wrong, I would listen. That would devastate me. The rest of it. Ryan, my whole point is you learn how precious life is. You realize these are people, not baseball players. You know, my mom used to tell me when I was single, I'd say this kid is, you know, blah, blah, blah. My mom would go, they wouldn't trade that child for all the money in the world. I'm like, well, they're stupid.
I'd sell him for. And then you learn. And so my point was, Sarah, that was devastating. But it's made me a better dad, made me a better person, made me a better coach, I would hope a better husband.
And then you take baseball wise. 91. 92 was mine the last time. When were you one and was Memorial one and we were two or was it the other way around?
[01:12:54] Speaker A: We beat rolling in the Semi State in 92.
[01:12:57] Speaker B: 92. But one of us was ranked 1.
[01:13:00] Speaker A: Yeah, we were.
We went like back, back, back to back years of being ranked nationally, I think 93. We were in the top 25 USA today. But it all runs together.
[01:13:11] Speaker B: All I know is that game in 92, 92. Semi State had the lead. Bobby hit a base loaded double.
[01:13:18] Speaker A: Electric atmosphere too. You mentioned about the fans.
[01:13:21] Speaker B: There was people.
[01:13:22] Speaker A: It was, it was six rows deep around the entire stadium.
[01:13:27] Speaker B: We let.
[01:13:28] Speaker A: And the game was on television. People think I'm nuts. I'm like, no, our high school games are on television in the early 90s.
[01:13:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Darren, can't think of his name. Did the game. I got part of that on videotape. I'll.
[01:13:38] Speaker A: So does Andy Noblet. Andy Noblet's good with, with keeping the videotapes in this.
[01:13:42] Speaker B: Well, in that game there are like, we were counting. There's at least 13 guys went on to play high level baseball between the two teams, including Division 1 professional and everything else. All right. We lost a heartbreaker to you guys. And you made me mad, believe it or not, because you didn't win it. I'd rather team go on to win.
[01:14:00] Speaker A: But that my heart too.
[01:14:01] Speaker B: Yeah, but you get what I'm saying. I would. I'm one of those. Okay, But I watch my kids.
Nobody pulled their jersey out over their head. Nobody flopped around on the ground. My catcher sat for a minute, you know, disappointed, whatever. And then we like men. So okay, this all goes back a year 91.
We. I found out my shortstop has been eligible ineligible before a math paper back then that they got teacher said, yeah, he turned it in, took care of it's fine. Well, ended up not being quality work, so he's been ineligible. So we're owing 16.
Everybody thinks we were 16 and 0. We were 8 and 8. 91. Now we're owing 16.
I meet with two seniors. The one just says Seidel, who went on to play at usi. I won't use the words, but simple man. The other guy, Jay Hamlin, sound like he goes, well, on the one hand we can turn this into a beneficial situation. Blah, blah, like you need to run for office office someday. So we're O and 16 and we go to the state finals.
So we're 17 and 16 in the state finals. But here's the whole point of this.
Every kid said in the interviews, I have Roland on tape, he goes, you know, once we were on 16, the pressure was off. Every kid, the pressure was off. I didn't know there was any pressure. Right. I just coached the only way I knew how. And that was, you know, pedal to the floor. That to me was my biggest moment as far as coaching.
To realize that it's supposed to be fun. Because I have down for you our program. To me, I had a sign forever. It says, are you having fun? Are they having fun? Is what it actually said. But I took it for me too. That was my number one goal. I wanted a kid when he's done playing at Jasper High School. I'm glad I played. Whether it worked out great, whether we won State, whether we didn't. We're Bill. Here's what we're building on and coaches laugh. Three fundamentals. Give them three outs or less. Now people accuse me, you cheat. No. And you know what I mean by this. You don't bobble the ball. You don't put. You should have had two. You get two because it's going to come back to bite you. Second rule is use all three outs. Don't get doubled up, don't shorten anything for the opponent. Third one, put the ball in play.
You do that, you're going to win 85% of your games at the high school level. I trust me. And the other thing that turned my career around is I wasn't a pitching guy. I got banned when I was 12 because I hit too many guys in little league, and I never pitched beyond that.
And we were getting beat in our own tournament during the season, not the state tournament. And the kid said, I think with the talent we got, we're doing all right. We had 13 hairs that day and walked a dozen guys, whatever. So I came up with a new rule. If a guy gets on base by a walk, the whole team runs a mile.
Now, have you ever been around a baseball team that likes running miles? Nobody says, not even the sprinter, right?
So we were running, and we're. We're up to like 20, 30 miles. So then we say, okay, shutout takes away a mile.
You know, airless game takes away a mile. Because we had to have. I got to live up to my word, but we got to have the energy to play. So we fast forward to that really good group. I had that 92 group with knobs and Kevin Werner's at second base. We have a big lead, but the base, their load. I said, turn two up the middle. We're gonna give up the run, right? There's no out spaces loaded. Turn two up the middle. They hit a ball to Werner at second.
He doesn't throw two. I mean, it's a double. Play those to home. We get the one out. I said. I said, two up the middle. He said, yeah, that guy on third got on by a walk, and I'm sick. I ain't running another mile. That's what he said.
That's when you know it's working. Does that make sense? That's when you say, so. I would say the fact of putting pressure in 91 and learning as a coach, because we are record, it was fine, but we weren't that good. Those four years I coached taught me a lesson. I never forgot that. It's still a game. They got to have fun, and it's pressure unless you explain to them. So the best thing I've done since then, according to Knobs, is I try to walk through. Here's what's going to happen. It's going to be a game of runs. You're going to have momentum. You're going to run some momentum. You're going to have a lead. They may have a lead. You have to have the Courage to stand up. Okay, this is one of these moments.
This is, this is what coach talked about. Somebody's got to make a play. And I think that's helped us a lot. But we really are that simple. We don't have like our seniors, go get the batting cage just like a freshman might. We don't. I never do any of that. And if you want to hear it, I can tell you why.
If you forget your cleats in our program, somebody else plays. You don't borrow cleats, you forget your jersey. Do you know Jared Brosberg, who's our team doctor? Chiropractor. He forgot his cleats at Jeffersonville. There were no one in the state, but his mom went to Kmart, bought him some rubber spikes, and he pitched a two hit shutout. So if you have something there, you can play, right? But when I was a player in football, I was a sophomore fullback, and number one was hurt. The next guy forgot his pants. Game pants. You know, right before the game, coach comes up and he said, you hear, you know, I won't say his name, but Billy forgot his pants. Yes, sir. I mean, I'm going to take the nod, right? I'm starting a fullback, goes, you're about his size, give him yours.
And I literally was crying. I'm not afraid. I mean, literally, I've never felt more worthless in my life as a player, as a person.
And so you learn stuff like that and say, bingo, got it. I mean, that's the way we do it. I just never forgot that feeling. So I don't ever want to tell a kid, hey, give him your jersey. Brock Little in our cleanup hitter in 2006, going for the state championship game against lockdown, forgot his jersey in the hotel, but he got his mom to break into the room and bring it because I don't know that one. I might have said, here, wear my jersey. You know, your four hole hitter for the state.
But those are the kind of things I think if you hang with it, you don't have to have a great record. You have to be consistent and you have to be prepared to do it. But those simple rules for us people sometimes are blown away because they assume we have. I don't, I don't have anything in writing. I don't, I don't love it. We don't have any rules in riding. If you're late, you run a mile for every minute you're late.
Bad news is, Ryan, you have to run it during practice. So then you're missing practice.
So you can never make it up and it's just never been an issue. Love it.
[01:20:02] Speaker A: What are some final thoughts before I let you go?
[01:20:04] Speaker B: Just want to thank everybody. You know, it starts with family. Just absolutely.
Our children, Nick, Sarah, Maria, Laura, Julia, my wife, Carolyn, for allowing me to do this.
It's a we thing. The smartest thing ever did is when I gave Carolyn the reins and said she took over the concession stand.
Worst thing about that, Ryan, is going to bed every night hearing you need more hot dogs. I mean, I wanted somebody else, but smartest move I ever made. And it's kind of cool to sleep with the concession lady too sometimes, you know. Also Dan Sherry, my first assistant and went on to be superintendent son heck of a player at U of E. Jason Albrand was with me 25 years. He was a three sport athlete. So I've been with Jason in baseball for 28 years.
Three as a player. Then Andy Noblett, Mark Geisler, Brandon Pear, Jeff Sink, Brian Kirchhoff, Jason Stom, all helping now, but so many guys over the years and it just is real simple. I just been fortunate. I, I, we're, we're so simple sometimes it's scary. But I'm so lucky to be in a community that, I mean, you look at what our kids have. We didn't have any of that Before I could speak at a clinic, everybody, well, yeah, you got all that given. No, we went out and got the field house. Scott Roland didn't buy the field house. He went and looked at him with me. He helped me, but we didn't go to him. I've never gone to him and asked for a donation ever.
We, when we had, I tell young coaches, when you have the simplest field, we were at playing somewhere and the guy goes, well, I'm sorry it looks like this, but I'm like, you guys, we don't have the city take care of it. I go, you got 30 kids over there that could pick up these weeds. And so we literally, and some people don't like it, but if we go on the road and there's weeds around our dugouts, our kids will just pick them up without me even saying anything. They're like, coach. And somebody said, oh, that's kind of brash. And I'm like, well, we didn't mean it disrespectfully, but it's not that hard. You don't, it doesn't take money. And the last thing, Coach Shriver was legend here. Ken Shriver at LaPorte, seven state titles.
He saved me so many Times on, he kept telling me, your best team, you know, we got beat by you guys in 92. And I said, I'll never. Roland was our number five pitcher, throwing like 86, 7. I said, I'll never have that kind of talent group. He goes, terry, you'll have a team win. Could be the team you least suspected.
All right. And that other fail forward to be 95. After we got beat, we walked a guy, tried to pick him off like seven times in a row. We threw it down the right field line. We balk him in. We got beat sitting the dugout with Phil Kendall, and we're both crying. He says, we're coming back, we're going to win. This is.
That's a lot to ask of a kid. You know, don't. Don't worry about it.
He comes back and he's throwing. He went from 86, 87, 93, 94, hit 13 bombs, drove in almost 50 runs. We just put a saddle on him and. And we won. And I learned a valuable lesson. I've never gone up there anymore. Intimidated because you're nervous. I mean, I don't care what you say, so just saying we're such a simple program, but it's been such a big part of our life, and that was the smartest thing ever did, is including my family. I had to skip a few things. Personally, it doesn't matter. But once my family became involved, it wasn't pulling us away.
Carolyn does awards at the end of the year or, you know, just a huge part. All my kids have done everything. They've run the scoreboard, the concession stand. They know how to put it. My girls know how to tarp a field and take it off right before a storm. And I've just been very fortunate. So I can't thank you guys enough what you do. I know I talk too much, but what ABCA does, what they stand for, that's why I'm really proud about this. It's not a numbers thing, but I hope I make it very clear how special it is to just the whole community. But also Indiana baseball, I think is being represented by you guys.
You know, the committee putting me in, but it's really just a statement about how good Indiana baseball is.
[01:23:49] Speaker A: Terry, thanks for your time. I appreciate you.
[01:23:51] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:23:51] Speaker A: Love you very much.
[01:23:52] Speaker B: I appreciate it.
[01:23:52] Speaker A: Appreciate you.
[01:23:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:23:53] Speaker A: Thank you.
Always a pleasure to connect with Coach Gobert. He's a pillar in the Indiana baseball landscape. He's the epitome of doing things the right way. Congrats to Coach Gobert on going into the ABCA hall of Fame. Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale, Matt west in the ABCA office. For all up on the podcast, feel free to reach out to me via email rbrownleybca.org Twitter, Instagram or TikTok CoachBabca or direct message me via the MyBA say app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off for the American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks and leave it better for those behind you you.
Know that way yep Wait for another.
[01:24:45] Speaker B: And the world and your love there before your name and you know that way.
[01:25:00] Speaker A: Wait for another.
[01:25:05] Speaker B: Day.
