Justin Barber - ABCA/Soldier Sports NAIA Assistant Coach of the Year

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the abca's podcast. I'm your host, ryan brownlee. This episode is sponsored by Netting Pros. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Netting Professionals specializes in the design, fabrication and installation of custom netting for backstops, batting cages, dugouts, BP screens and ball carts. They also design and install digital graphic wall padding, windscreen, turf, turf protectors, dugout benches, dugout cubbies, and more. Netting Professionals is an official partner of the ABCA and continues to provide quality products and services to many high school, college and professional fields, facilities and stadiums throughout the country. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Contact them today at 844-620-2707 or infoettingpros.com, visit them online at www.nettingpros.com or check out Netting Pros on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects. Make sure to let CEO Will Minor know that the ABCA sent you now [00:01:31] Speaker B: onto the podcast ABCA Soldier Sports NAI Assistant Coach of the Year Justin Barber is someone who has built his coaching career around developing pitchers and building championship caliber pitching staffs. Justin Barber finished his ninth season on staff at Taylor University where he serves as the pitching coach and the recruiting coordinator and over that span his pitching staff consistently ranked among the best in the NAIA. This past season, Barber led Taylor University to a 567 record, finished ranked second in the country and played in the NAIA World Series Championship game. The Trojans pitching staff had a.473 ERA and held opponents to a.253 batting average. In 2025, Taylor put together the best regular season in program history at a 418 record and finished with a program record 47 wins, climbed to number nine nationally and captured its third straight Crossroads League regular season championship and second consecutive tournament title. Barber's pitching staff was a huge part of that success, ranking second nationally in whip, third in opponent's batting average and fourth in both ERA and strikeouts per nine innings. Staff also produced the Crossroads League Pitcher of the Year, three first team All League selections, an NAI All American and an MLB draft pick. Barber's track record goes well beyond his time at Taylor. Before arriving to upland, he spent eight years with the Indiana Chargers, helping more than 90 players reach the collegiate level and working with four pitchers who eventually reach professional baseball, including three MLB draft picks. Barber started his coaching career as a high school varsity head coach and also worked as a pitching and hitting instructor at Great Lakes Baseball Academy. In this episode, we're going to talk pitching development Recruiting, player development, and what it takes to consistently build a pitching staff that can compete at the highest levels of college baseball. Let's welcome Justin Barber to the podcast. [00:03:24] Speaker A: All right here, Justin Barber, ABCA Soldier Sports NAI assistant coach of the year. Heading in the ninth season as pitching coach and recruiting coordinator at Taylor, but been on a historic run here at Taylor. So Justin, thanks for jumping on with me. [00:03:38] Speaker C: Thanks for having me. [00:03:40] Speaker A: Hey, the World Series, you guys lose the first game and then I know there's more breaks now, but how'd you manage the pitching staff there to try to get back to the championship game? [00:03:51] Speaker C: It was obviously not what we were trying to do. Dropping the first one out there at the World Series, that's not ideal. But to our guys credit, both our position players on our team really showed up the next couple days. The pitchers, I think everybody can attest to this. Typically you start with the number of pitchers on your team and the later you get into the year, the guys that end up on the mound more tend to shrink a little bit. And so our head coach, Kyle Gould, does a great job of kind of managing the pitching changes that we do. And we just kind of always have that mindset of we're trying to win the game that we're in and not worried about what tomorrow may bring because obviously at that point when you're facing elimination and your season being over, it might not be there. So, you know, had a ton of guys that we used and honestly got some great performances from a lot of different guys and that gave us a chance in a lot of games. [00:04:39] Speaker A: What'd you talk about with the guys after the first game? Because obviously you've been in that situation before and then it hasn't worked out the way it worked out this year. [00:04:47] Speaker C: Yeah, it was, it was interesting. We, we probably couldn't have played better in our opening round to make it to the World Series. We, for three days in a row, we were just clicking on all cylinders and it just felt a little bit off. And again, part of that's a huge credit to William Carey, who we, we were playing in that first day and they got us. But no, again, our head coach just, he picks the spots and he just said if we're going to, if we're going to come out here and lose, we're not going to do it. Playing timid and kind of with that almost kind of scared to mess up mindset. And again, to our guys credit, they, they showed up the next day, they played free and kind of looked like the team that went 56 and 7 and had had a great year. [00:05:28] Speaker A: Are you kind of starting the process all over again now? Because it seemed like you had those guys for a long time. Is it kind of starting over with a new group? [00:05:37] Speaker C: It's definitely going to look different. We had 10, 10 seniors and they were, they were all very, very good and key contributors on our team. And for those guys, how cool to book in their four years with making the World Series in 23 and getting back there to finish it and take it all the way to the final day their senior year, which was great, but yeah, it'll look different. We'll have a lot of new guys, but that, that's not totally different for us. We typically are still doing it primarily with four year guys out of high school and kind of filling it in with some transfers that can help and can impact our team. And so, yeah, we've got lots of good players still on our roster that are returning that are obviously going to have some chances at some different roles this year and maybe some more impactful innings on the mound and cracking the lineup. And then, you know, with our seniors that we do have, they're still very talented and they've had a ton of experience and they've won a lot. We're going to rely on those guys a lot to get us off to a good start as we get going here in the fall. And then when we get to our season in the spring. [00:06:28] Speaker A: What is the secret there with freshmen now? Because I'm a freshman guy too. What's the secret with getting them ready to compete? [00:06:36] Speaker C: Well, I think we live in a world where we always want the freshmen to impact as quick as possible and we kind of forget that sometimes that can be a really hard transition. Right. And so most freshmen are not getting to whatever level of college baseball because they're bad baseball players, because they're good baseball players and they had a ton of success in high school. And so inevitably, whether it's in the fall or in the spring, they're going to fail. And so really, I think the biggest thing is can you help them when they fail, not let that impact what happens next, Whether that's the next outing on the mound or they're next at bats, if they're a position guy, I do think there's a little bit of that, that mental game component to give them some strategies to, to just trust themselves. [00:07:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:16] Speaker C: And just know that they are a good player and we wouldn't have recruited them to, to be here and to play for us early in their career if they weren't capable of helping us be the, you know, be the guy that helps us win that game that day. [00:07:27] Speaker A: How has the program evolved over the last nine years? Because it seems like you guys probably play a little bit tougher schedule now than you did nine years ago. [00:07:36] Speaker C: Yeah, that's very fair. Yeah, very fair. And I think, again, the last few years, like, we've obviously had, not that we always didn't want to be good. We always were trying to compete at the highest level we could, but I think there is still a little bit of. When you're a Midwest and a Northern team, you kind of have to be more willing to go play teams at their places. And so, again, that's a huge credit to our head coach, who has just said, this is what we're going to do. We're going to go to Arizona to start our year, play teams in the west coast and. And kind of see what that looks like. And then typically we'll go to Georgia or Florida to play a really, really good program in a series down there. And so when we come back to the Midwest, we feel like we've been prepared to handle whatever is going to get thrown our way in the conference season. [00:08:19] Speaker A: And. [00:08:19] Speaker C: And the top part of our league is very, very good and very, very, very talented as well. And so, yeah, I just think it's kind of a combination of those things. We. We ended up having a ton of. Not just wins last year, but, you know, quad one wins and. And wins against good teams at their wins, obviously, are great. And I think it's just we always want to challenge ourselves against anybody anywhere. And it's been a fun part of the process the last few years to see us try and get that schedule tough for each year. [00:08:46] Speaker A: How's your relationship with Kyle changed over the last nine years? [00:08:51] Speaker C: It's a good question. You know, it's interesting. My background's a little bit different where I was coaching primarily on the high school side, both at the, you know, the high school level and the travel ball side for several years. And I actually had a friendship with Kyle before I got here. He was. He was a good friend and had gotten to know him really, really well through, you know, it seemed like every year when we were at the ABCA convention, we're all hanging out with the same kind of small group of friends and got to know each other very well. I played against Taylor when I was in college, so I was familiar with, you know, their program and how good they were. And then in my last coaching Stop. Before Taylor, all those years ago, he would always be out recruiting, and it tended to recruit some of our better players on our, you know, college showcase team. And so, again, had a little bit of a different dynamic going into it. I would just say probably the biggest thing that's changed in the last nine years for both of us is like, we're going through the similar stage of life together. We both got kids, and we've got young families, and our daughters are basically, you know, I've got two daughters, he's got one, and she's right in the middle of those two in terms of age, and they hang out all the time. And so we've got both young boys as well. And so we're. We're just kind of living life not just with the baseball side and what we're trying to be good at here and in our jobs professionally, but at home. There's a lot of similarities. And so I think you just have a lot of common values and, and shared experiences that kind of just continue to bond that friendship together. [00:10:06] Speaker A: You guys ever have disagreements? [00:10:08] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. I. I'm sure every time I call a 32 slider, he just cringes. But no, he. I give him a ton of credit, like, from the get go. Even when I was a young coach that first year, like, he gave me a ton of freedom and, and is not a micromanager, and just, he's very empowering. He expects you to do your job and do it well. He has a really great way of. When he does disagree, like, typically, it's going to be more of a conversation. Very, very rarely has it been in front of our players in the moment, which I really respect that and just appreciate that. But no, I, I think, like, we're both really competitive people and, and we're. We're trying to do what's best for our players, and we're trying to win every game. And so naturally, you're going to get some of those moments. But I, I will say, like, he is not just an incredible friend, but, like, when we have had some moments that are maybe a little bit more of a tougher discussion. Like, he's, he's generally very empathetic and handles that in a really respectful way, and I appreciate that about him. [00:11:04] Speaker A: Did you know you were going to get into coaching when you're at Spring Arbor? [00:11:09] Speaker C: I wanted to stay in baseball. You know, if I'm being honest, I thought I was going to play for the Detroit tigers for, like, 20 years, have a Hall of Fame Career, like all of us thought. And obviously that was not in the cards or even close to in the cards for me. And so I'll never forget my dad, actually. We were driving home from a doubleheader on Easter weekend about a month before graduation. He just said, so you could feel it coming. He's like, what's next? You know, you're gonna get a job. What's next? And I just said, I. I don't know what it's going to be, Dad. I just know I want to stay in baseball. And you could just kind of feel in that moment some tension. Not because my dad wasn't supportive or didn't think I could pull that off, but he's probably also a little concerned that his son may be living with him until he's, like, 32 years old if he doesn't have a better plan. So I just knew I wanted to play as long as I could, and then was very fortunate that literally a week after I graduated, I had a buddy who was coaching a program, and he said, I need a pitching coach. I. I'd love you to just come do this with me. And. And I knew that would buy me a couple months to try and maybe figure out what I was doing, and just instantly fell in love with it. I think. I think most coaches can relate to kind of having that moment where you can feel like you're able to stay in the game, number one, give back to the game. And then again, it's. It's about the players and those relationships that you can build while coaching and teaching life lessons, and so just fell in love with that right away. And I. I do think kind of in that process. The other thing I would add is I don't remember where I saw it or if it was a gift to me or my dad, but we did have a book in my house growing up, and it was a Bobby Bowden, the longtime legendary Florida State football coach. And it was kind of more of a biography, and it was called the Coach was the name of the book and the title. And I don't. I don't remember ever thinking of coaching as maybe a calling until I had seen that late as a high school kid. So it was always kind of in my mind and in my background is maybe that's a way to stay in the game. And then was just really fortunate to get connected right away after college and just kind of jump right in on coaching. [00:13:03] Speaker A: Does Fort Wayne get enough credit for how good it is in baseball in high school? [00:13:08] Speaker C: Yeah, I would even. I would Expand it even a little bit further just to the whole state of Indiana. I think Indiana is, I don't even know if I would call it a sneaky good baseball state anymore. I just think it's a good baseball state and I think there's a lot of reasons for that. But yeah, I think the high school programs, there's a lot of very good ones here, obviously a lot of good travel programs and facilities that can help kids these days. The game has changed so much in the last 10 years on that front, where especially some of these states with climates that can't get outside as much like the facilities have expanded and become more accessible for a lot of these kids. And, and you do see a lot more kids devoting more time to specializing in baseball now probably than you did 10 or 15 years ago. But no, I, I do think Indiana is a really, really good baseball state. And so for us, that's obviously got to be part of the equation on the recruiting front is to dominate, you know, the northern part of the state all the way down to Evansville and everything in between. [00:14:00] Speaker A: Man, what did, what did you learn with the Chargers, man, that's your first taste of coaching. What'd you learn when you got to the Chargers? [00:14:07] Speaker C: Yeah, again, I had a great mentor. Joel Mishler was the guy that started that organization and was really, really good for a long, long time. And anybody knows Joel is well aware he is as good a crusty baseball guy as there is and has a heart of gold. And yeah, I just got to see what it was like for a guy who had already had a well established career in coaching and knew what he was doing. But Joel is a voracious learner and was very adamant that we were going to do things every year like the ABCA and we're going to try and get connected with people that are smarter than us so that we can give our kids the best opportunity to get better. And ultimately at that time, primarily it was to try and help them give options to go play college baseball and extend their playing careers. So, yeah, I didn't really know it at the time, but if you were designing like a master's level course in coaching when you're running a facility with anything from 8 year olds who shouldn't be there to 22 year olds finishing their college careers and guys in the off season that come back because they think you can help them and everything in between, like they are all there because they think you can help them. And so you just had to learn how to kind of adapt and Adjust individually to each person and understand their learning styles. And then again we just tried to really pride ourselves on development, being at the forefront and helping everybody get the, the best information, have the best technology and just, just find ways to help them get better at their craft. [00:15:27] Speaker A: How are you balancing then coaching in high school and then working at facility? [00:15:32] Speaker C: Yeah, so I mean it was interesting because you know, the facility side was primarily more in the fall and the winter and early spring and then it would transition where now we're coaching our teams and our players in the summer. And so it was kind of the best of both worlds for me as well. Again to mention that, you know, if you're designing a master's level coaching course, we got to see the development in the building and then we got to see if it translated at all outside the building onto the field where ultimately it matters the most. And so it was a great combination of, you know, you hear that old school, new school thing all the time. Well, you know, we were doing some things that maybe were a little bit more progressive at the time 10 or 12 years ago. And then you got to still see if it related on the baseball field and if, if you could teach it on the baseball field to make sense in an actual baseball game with baseball IQ plays and, and see where it all showed up. And so, so I really enjoyed that aspect of the job being not just the running the facility, just running the operations and kind of skill development, but also getting to coach the game. And for me again I'm a pitching guy now, but again at that time you're coaching hitters, you're coaching defense, you're coaching all of it as a one man show, usually in travel ball. And so I really enjoyed that aspect of kind of navigating both. [00:16:43] Speaker A: How can you get that indoor facility? What helps translate to on field? I mean in your experience, what do you feel like helped kids translate to competing on the field? [00:16:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I think you just have to be really, really intentional. If I go more specifically to like pitchers right here, like you have to be really intentional when you're competing and when you're, when you're training. And I think when you separate those two things, it can free them up from a player development standpoint to when I'm training, I can try things and I can fail at things and I can do weird things that probably aren't going to be how I'm going to throw or hit when it comes to the game. But then there is also times where you need to train the skills that directly translate to what you're trying to do in the game. And so I do think you can blend the two. I just think you have to be really, really clear with your players on when you're working on what things. And then ultimately, I think the best reason why you have a data driven training program within your college program or high school program or pro organization is because you're tracking to see if it's working. And if it's working, then that's a good sign. And if it's not, then it's time to think through the prep, the plan or the routines or the weight room or whatever it is to make adjustments. And I think that's kind of where the sweet spot is in player development. You have to be able to blend both the training being really good, making sure they're working on the right things. But then again, like college baseball, we're trying to win every single game we're playing. It's got to show up on the field when it matters. [00:18:02] Speaker A: What data do you like the best? What do you feel like? Individual. Individual. [00:18:08] Speaker C: As far as the data goes? [00:18:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:18:11] Speaker C: I mean we've got the track, man, we enjoy that a lot. I think that gives us. Again, it's just data is just telling us a story. [00:18:18] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:18] Speaker C: And it's just giving more points of reference difference on what's actually happening. I definitely enjoy that. I like slow mo camera when we're doing pitch design. I do enjoy that as well. I think video can be a great tool with not just looking at mechanics, but more from like, you know, our hitters, typically they've grown up where they want to just look at their swing and break it down mechanically. Kyle's our head coach, he's also our hitting guy and he's probably going to do it way more of looking at what they're swinging at, right. And saying we don't really need to get into your mechanics yet. Like look at the pitches you're swinging. And so when you combo the video with Trackman telling you, you know, the chase rates and, and the end zone percentages and things like that, I think there can be some really useful stuff. [00:18:57] Speaker A: There is that every pitch, say you're running a bullpen, is it? Do you have Edgar Tronic and, and Trackman for every pitch or. [00:19:05] Speaker C: Yeah, good question. So again, there's different times I think in the fall typically. So our, our Trackman's the, the in stadium. So when we're on the game mound, we'll do that there bullpen a little bit more rapsodo. You know, and then the edge of tronic there. But what I would say is there's also a lot of times, especially in season where it's just bullpen. And again, that's part of that separating when are we competing, when are we training? And then again, you know, we've got freshmen that are going to be, you know, coming in here in three weeks. They're going to be a little bit with the head swimming, trying to keep up with everything going on around them and then we're going to have fifth year seniors. Well, that guy's probably going to have a little different plan in the fall for his bullpen work in those seven weeks where we're only getting on the mound so many times as opposed to the freshman guy that's just trying to really nail down good routines, start to learn what is his best stuff on the mound in terms of what's my best strike pitch, what gets my most swing and miss. And then how does that kind of impact, how we're calling pitches and trying to, you know, attack hitters when we're actually scrimmaging or playing other teams this fall. So I think you just have to be able to navigate, you know, if we have 16 pitchers on our team, like they're not all going to be working on the same things in those [00:20:07] Speaker A: bullpens every time your freshmen, you kind of take them aside first and get them acclimated to what's going on. [00:20:16] Speaker C: Yeah, we just a little thing that we do is so they'll do move in weekend and typically on that Saturday we try to find like a 90 minute window with just freshmen and transfers and just get the new guys there and just kind of go through a very basic practice structure on here's what a dynamic warmup looks like. And then we'll, we'll take the pitchers and the position guys will stay with our other coaches and just go through some basic progressions that they'll probably see on either Monday or Tuesday in that first team practice the next week. Just to feel like that they're, you know, at least have a little bit of a sense of kind of the flow and what's going on. And then I, I would say like typically I probably have to coach more in the first three or four weeks of the fall and then it just tapers back pretty hard because again, you're just trying to get installed. What each day looks like from a routine standpoint, how does that work with what we're doing, the weight room, how does that line up with what we're doing in bullpens. And then at that point, you're. You're probably trying to get them into just better routines because you know that at some point here in the off season, they're going to have to do it primarily on their own. [00:21:11] Speaker A: You have any absolutes with pitching, with running a staff? [00:21:15] Speaker C: No, I don't know if there's any absolutes, but I do have things that I believe in. And I think that the hard thing as a pitching coach is you're trying to navigate how do you help each individual player, but also do it under that umbrella of running an entire pitching staff and giving them an identity that can work together as a team. And so I think none of this is revolutionary, but a few things that kind of come to mind. You know, excuse me. Everybody knows that the race to two strikes is. Is about most importance. And so we talk a lot about that. From that first team meeting that we, that we have with the pitchers, it's like, guys, the difference between two 1. And we give them the data from the last year of every pitch that we have from Synergy and Trackman. It's like, guys, the 2:1 count is like facing a very legit middle of the order bat with thump. And the 12 count is literally the worst hitter on any lineup in any level of college baseball. And so that's what the numbers are telling us. So how important is it to get there? And then again, how is pitching, how is pitch calling going to impact what we do early in the count and how we're setting up to just honestly set up middle with a lot of guys early in the count to give them the best chance to throw it over the plate to get strike one and then hopefully strike two. And then we do talk. This was something that's a little bit newer. The last couple years, I ran into Rob Childress, the long time, you know, Texas A and M head coach, and he's been in Nebraska. He's obviously, he was kind of ahead of his time in terms of what they were doing. And so I was bored a couple summers ago recruiting in between games, and I just thought, you know, screw it, I'm gonna go talk to Rob. He doesn't owe me anything. Going to see if he'll talk to me. And so I just said, hey, you. You guys were striking out people before. It was cool at Texas A and M. Like, what do you attribute that to? [00:22:46] Speaker A: Before that? [00:22:47] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And he, he just started laughing and he just said, we talk about getting the two strikes before two balls. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, but like, what. What do you. How do you do that? Or what you talking. He's like, two strikes before two balls. And then what he told me, Ryan, I. I think this really impacted us the last couple years. He said, we sh. He goes, we can't control the results, but we shoot for three to one strike out to walk, and we shoot for a hit or less per inning pitched and at least one strikeout or more per ending pitch. He says, if you do that, you're going to have a 2.5 to 3.5 ERA and you're going to be a dang good pitcher. And so I was just like, we. We need to gain some ground on this. So I'm like, we'll try it. And last year, we ended up having a great year on that front. It was like 3, 4 to 1 on the strikeout to walk, 3.4 to 1. This year we regressed a little bit, but it was still very solid. It was like 2.4, 2 to 1 on that number. And I do think that there's some real truth to just like, we talked [00:23:35] Speaker B: about it a lot. [00:23:35] Speaker C: We aimed for that. And because of that, like, that became a real priority for our guys. And they understand, again, you're trying to give them some things that they know. If I do this, there's probably a really good chance I slide into that top eight to 10 in the pitching staff. It's like, if you're three to one after the fall, you're probably feeling pretty good heading into the season about having a role on our team. If you're two to one, there's probably a really good chance there's some kind of role available for you. If you're 0.5 to 1, we got some work to do, right? And so I think it's just a real tangible thing to help guys understand. And then again, we post that stuff after each scrimmage week. It's like, here's where we stack up. And then by the end of the fall, you know, they'll have 12 to 12 to 18 innings between, you know, those six or seven outings, and it gives them a chance to have a little bigger sample size and understand, man, I'm doing okay there, boy. [00:24:18] Speaker B: I got. [00:24:18] Speaker C: I got a ways to go if I'm going to help this team here in the spring. [00:24:21] Speaker A: Do you think that's the best way. Way to motivate guys is by posting it? [00:24:26] Speaker C: I think it definitely gets their attention. I think, like most people, Some people love that. They love that competition piece. Some people, as soon as they see that, you know, text message go out in the group, me, they freak out because they like, they know everybody's going to see what it is. Even, you know, I'll give you an example. Like, our last year, our best arm was a six round draft pick with the Astros. And like, he's the most humble kid you would ever see. And like, he obviously had some good metrics and had some good numbers. Like, he didn't really care for, you know, seeing that all the time because he kind of felt like, well, everybody's judging it based on me, but, but I'm also trying to be a team guy, you know, So I do think there's a little bit of a balance to it. I, I know some coaches love to post everything and some coaches love to post nothing. We're not trying to hide anything from our players. But, but that's definitely one that we, that we post. And then again, it's an easy conversation piece at the end of the fall in that exit meeting to just kind of recap the fall and while you're hearing their thoughts, you have some real tangible numbers that you can give them and, and maybe see kind of if that helps them process things with where they're at a little bit better. [00:25:21] Speaker A: Your bullpen schedule the same in the fall as it is in the spring for them? Pretty much walk us through, walk out of the week for, for guys. [00:25:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:31] Speaker C: So again, there's obviously some room for change within the week, but we try to mirror what we do in the fall is kind of like a mini version of what our season is going to be. So if we're competing on a Friday, Saturday is going to be a recovery day. It's going to be a movement day, probably get in the weight room. A lot of guys like to throw that day after. We probably prefer the guys throw the day after just because naturally Sundays are our day off here at Taylor. And so I don't like guys going no throw, no throw after they pitch on Friday. And then so Saturday's recovery, Sunday's off. Monday's going to be a little bit more of kind of that swing day, that hybrid day. Just some guys are bouncing back better than others. For some, that may be the day that they get on the mound at the end of their catch play. If they're feeling good for other guys, they may need to wait till Tuesday and do it on Tuesday to be that high intent side session. And then probably what I would say is one thing we've done a little bit more the last few Years is after that side session, especially if it's on a Tuesday, we typically will go either off of throwing on Wednesday or just go straight recovery two days in a row to just help them bounce back a little bit more. Again, you're just trying to get back as close to 100% as possible, you know, before they hit the mound again to compete on Friday. [00:26:45] Speaker A: What's pitch limit for your guys in the fall? You run innings or do you set the limit on pitches? Is it brief stints you extend guys, how do you handle that? [00:26:56] Speaker C: Yeah, it's, it's changed a little bit year to year. This fall, our guys are going to go two innings out of the chute. And so everything that they do ahead of getting to campus is going to help them get ready with the on ramp and have the arms in shape. And we'll be able to take that first week, week and a half to get the routines good, get a couple more bullpens, and then we'll go two innings out of the chute. And then what we typically do is we kind of double up. We'll go two innings, two innings and then we'll extend with the guys that need to go more innings than that. And then by the end of the fall, you know, some guys may get up into the four inning range, but you know, there's also a lot of guys that need to get innings. And so we don't want to play, you know, 36 inning scrimmages or anything like that. And so I think more often than not, you know, three or four innings tends to be a little bit of the high end at the back end of the fall, as far as the pitch counts go, we certainly try to monitor that. We are way more concerned about not rolling innings. And so one thing that's been helpful with even some of our bullpen guys is even in those fall scrimmages, instead of rolling and inning, we'll have a guy go to the bullpen and get ready and come in mid inning. And if he's going two innings that day, it may be an inning in a third now, but it gives him the opportunity to get that routine going in the bullpen, come in mid inning, and then honestly, as far as the pitch counts go for the next week, we're just going to look at what happened this past week and then we'll make a, in our opinion, you know, a safe jump on the pitch, counter up and inning the following week, if it makes sense. [00:28:17] Speaker A: When did the summer round ramp start? [00:28:20] Speaker C: So for our guys, it's it's a little bit unique. We actually don't have guys doing summer ball. [00:28:26] Speaker A: You don't have one. What about guys? [00:28:29] Speaker C: We, the incoming guys, it's a little bit different. So yes, our incoming freshmen typically still play or at least have the option to play for our returning guys. It's not that we're anti summer ball, but again you're trying to think about like a 12 month calendar. And so you know, our head coach Kyle Gould said a few years ago, like if our pitchers are going to come here because they want to be a tailor and they want to work with you like then, then if they go pitch in the summer and they're shut down in the fall, that doesn't make a lot of sense. And, and again, you know this like the fall's like incredibly competitive window too. You're getting ready to like, you know, where's my spot in the spring? So like those guys don't want to go play in the summer, not play in the fall and not have that opportunity to earn their, their spot in the rotation or whatever it may be. And so, you know, we went to the World Series this year, played till the, you know, the first part of June, June was off and for a couple of pitchers, we gave them a couple extra weeks because of maybe some injury history or how many innings that they did pitch for us this year. But for everybody else, kind of right around July 4th, right after that weekend they got going with their on ramp gives them seven, eight weeks ahead of fall ball, get the arm in plenty of shape and then yeah, with the trade off for no summer balls, we hit the ground sprinting when we get back in the fall and we play a lot of baseball and we're on the field quite a bit. [00:29:37] Speaker A: Have your pregame routines, bullpens changed much over time with guys? [00:29:43] Speaker C: Yeah, I would say probably the biggest change we've made and this is probably five or six years ago now, but we probably throw less in catch play and probably less in the bullpen than we, than we used to. And I think a lot of that was just very much we love long toss. We love guys that like to stretch it out on, on those high intent days or their game days and, and those routines are theirs. But what we saw is guys were playing so much catch and exerting some maybe too much effort and then they get in the bullpen and they don't really ease into that effort level. So we try to help them with that when they get to the bullpen, like your first five fastballs don't have to be, you know, 113 and trying to knock the catcher over. But yeah, we, we try to get it like down to 15 to 20 pitches for that pregame bullpen because again, what we don't want is we don't want to get fatigued in the second or third inning because of what we did before the game. And so we just try to navigate that a little bit better. And then probably more than anything, we just try to time it up really, really well. Right. We. They can have the routine, they can, they can do whatever they want pre throw that day. They can do whatever athletic throwing drills in their catch play, they can long toss, they can keep it short. I'm not real concerned about that. But what I want to make sure is that, that, you know, if it's a home game, you know, 12 to 12 to 15 minutes before we're in the bullpen, they're taking two to three minutes to get a breather. Then we'll get on the mound and we'll throw for about seven to eight minutes and we'll get done before the anthem. Just where it just paces everything with a little bit of a breather in between again to just help them not be fatigued when they get out there. [00:31:04] Speaker A: You script anything in the bullpen for them pregame? [00:31:08] Speaker C: As far as, as far as the pregame bullpen goes? No, as far as their side sessions or in the fall, when working on [00:31:13] Speaker A: bullpen, I ask you how that, what do the side sessions look like? [00:31:17] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I would say for most of us, most of our guys, like again, 15 to 20 pitches is very typical. Certainly some situations where we'll go more with guys or maybe we'll go less with guys so that we can get on the mound one more time in between outings. Like we can make those adjustments for sure. As far as the, the bullpens in the fall or those side sessions, like, I, I am very much interested in bullpens not being scripted. We can have an idea of what we're working on and we'll talk about what each guy's working on before they start their pens. But when it gets into the pen for most of them, especially if it's a competing type bullpen where they're working over the plate, like in the game, you're gonna call pitches based on hitters timing, you're going to call it based on what the last location was. And so I think it's silly to just work on like five fastballs away, five fastballs in five breaking balls, land that's not how we pitch. And so it's gonna be a fluid thing for sure. I, I think probably my favorite thing to do from a bullpen standpoint is, is three pitch set sets. Again, if we're going to talk about the race to two strikes, then we're going to do three pitch sets. And it gives guys an opportunity to win two out of those three pitches. And if they do that, obviously that'd be successful at bat or at least give them a chance for successful at bat if they were in a game. And so we can do that one of two ways where, you know, it's, it's straight OO counts and it's the race to two strikes with those three pitch sets. And then if we're showing a good aptitude for getting the ball in the zone or over the white plate and maybe for some guys, we need to work on now the put away stuff. And so we'll flip the mindset a little bit and we'll go to more of those 0212 locations where we're taking a little bit more of a shot with location and throwing their best pitches that get swing and miss and get those to the right locations. And then again helping them understand that like if they execute two out of three, they're doing a really, really good job. Because I think the tendency is sometimes pitchers, they think crazy things about how they have to throw 83% fastballs to be successful or every time there's no two count, if they ever give up a hit, they failed or something like that. Like you just have to, they're good learning moments in the bullpen to help them understand if you, if you have a terrible pitch on that first pitch of the set, you can still win your set. You just got to really do a good job of getting onto the next pitch right here in the next 15 seconds and get committed to what you're doing. So I think those probably tend to be the two biggest things with our bullpens. And then obviously if it's a little bit more of a training thing, like we can do some different things if it's, if it's breaking ball command. I'm a huge fan of the kind of the two hitters. Whether you've got those standing hitting dummies or you can use your off catchers or if you can get a pitcher brave enough to take a glove down there to. You just have to remind them they need to catch the ball if it comes at them or they need to bail early. But I do think that that and again, this is a Butch Thompson drill, right? I didn't. I didn't come up with any of this, but, like, those two hitters tends to be really good for breaking ball command. And then I am a big fan of the. The two catchers, where the catchers are side by side, kind of splitting the plate. And. And then you can work on anything you want there. You can work fastball, command in and out. You can work on fastball in, breaking ball away, fastball away, change up, you know, whatever it is. And you can. You can do a lot of different things to give them a little bit different visual to see if they getting the ball to that side of the plate with. With what they're doing. [00:34:15] Speaker A: What about pitch design? When are you working on that? What time of year? [00:34:19] Speaker C: Yeah, so the two times for us would be, obviously, the fall falls. Definitely it's a competing window, but it's certainly a development window. And with a lot of our older guys who have proven that they have at least two pitches that they can throw for strikes, like, it's time to add, maybe it's a fastball variation or a different breaking ball or change of whatever it is. And then to me, the best part of having trackman and some of the technology that we have have, I. I think pitch design is also for inseason, where if we get, you know, especially one or two outings in a row where you start to see that the movement is a little bit off or some of the metrics are a little bit off. You know, the best part about having the data and telling you the story is after the fall, we have a really, really good idea of what every guy looks like when it's going right, when the pitches are right, when he's moving right. And then if something's out of whack from a movement standpoint with their. With their pitches, then the reality is that that's probably a good time for us to take a look a little bit further, maybe a little bit deeper dive and just see if we can get something back on track. Because I think a lot of times it can be just very, very slight things. If you're talking about, like, you know, especially with breaking balls, like, when things get like that far out of whack with getting to the front of the ball too much or you're a little bit behind the ball, maybe on your slider too much, and it becomes kind of that, you know, cement mixer slider, Like, I do think that's where it can be a really good time to just use that side session. Well, and just say, we're going to spend the 15 to 20 pitches today and after you check in with the fastball, we're going to go to the camera and we're going to get the rep soda or the trackman and we're going to get that feedback. We're going to look at the video and just try to close that feedback loop to get that thing crisp. And I think for a lot of pitchers, what they then find is when they feel like they've made progress on that thing, they have a little bit more belief in it when they take them out later that weekend. [00:35:56] Speaker A: You do that in the office when you're asking guys to make adjustments. [00:36:01] Speaker C: Yeah, I think a lot of times those conversations are definitely either happening in the office or it may even be as simple as, hey, can you, we got our group work starting at 3 o'. Clock. Can you get out at 2:45? I want to show you something again. I don't think those have to be long conversations. And, and I think if you've done enough of building trust with what you, you're telling those guys throughout the year, then when you say, hey, I, I want to ask you about your slider, what are you feeling? Do you feel like it's coming out crisp? Do you feel like it's, it's kind of your best version of that last week? He's like, nah, it's a little bit off. I said, well, take a look at this. This is what I think this was your, this was your trackman report from two weeks ago. And then this was, was last week. Last, last night. And, and at that point, the, obviously, you know, it's an obvious difference. [00:36:38] Speaker B: Right? [00:36:39] Speaker C: Like we're not doing a science lesson there. Like, they can see when their movement plot has moved from here to here or something. And it's, and it's pretty obvious that something's off. And so then you can have that conversation. Here's what I think we need to do. Starting with catch play today. Let's, let's work on this. And then when we get to your side session tomorrow or, you know, two days down the road, we're just going to work on that pitch and we're going to get it right so that you're really good. [00:36:58] Speaker A: Next Friday night, you guys put the ball down at all after fall ball. [00:37:03] Speaker C: So that, that's probably one of our biggest changes the last few years too. And again, this, this kind of is dictated by, by our calendar. So we talked about our, our summer on ramp earlier part of why they also take that summer off is because after the fall, we don't have enough time to shut them down ahead of getting ready for, yeah, early. You start, we start, we start. It's a little crazy. You know, we start in January, which means Christmas break is our spring training. So it's a little weird to send guys home for four weeks and then, you know, when they get back, two days later, we fly on a plane, Arizona, and a week later we're playing a game that matters and counts towards our season for somebody good. But, but it's worked out. And again, that's a huge credit to our guys just prioritizing getting their work in on their own and making sure they're ready to go. And again, it all stems from our, our leader, Kyle Gould, who's just like, if we can get the pitcher and hitter confrontation right, and if we can get it wrapped enough where we can safely do things when we start the season, like, we can figure out the rest of it and we can get back better at the rest of it as we go. And again, as you know, in the Midwest, especially in Indiana, like, it's hard to get your games in in February. And so if we travel early, that tends to help us get to our 50 games that we can play in season. We think again, if we're talking about the player experience, like players want to play and so that's the trade off. We, we don't shut it down in the fall. We keep them going and then get them kind of ramped up in December and January is our preseason and then we're off and roll. [00:38:25] Speaker A: You have any routines to handle the ups and downs, the end season? Do you have anything that helps you? You think I would just ride the roller coaster? [00:38:33] Speaker C: Yeah, I, I do think like, and again, for us, like, we spend some time in the fall each week talking about some things that are going to show up when we get to the spring when that stuff certainly is inevitable. I, I think for us, like, yeah, you just have to help guys understand that, like, you're usually never as good as your last outing or as bad as your last outing. And then one thing that was really impactful for me, this is a long time ago now. Greg Moore, at the time I think he was at csun, but I'm not sure where he's at now. But he talked about his kind of after action report with his pitchers and sometimes you see guys that have these elaborate, you know, 10 or 20 question things. And I know that if I was a pitcher, I wouldn't want to fill that out after every outing. And so his thing was really, really simple. And it was just, I want my players to text me a build on, workout on after every game. And they have to text that to me before we get to the field the next day. And I think the way he put it was really brilliant. He's like, if they're going to text it, then they have to think about it, they have to write it out. They probably are going to proofread it at least once before they fire it off to their coach because they don't want to sound like an idiot. And then now we can talk about it under the lens of how they viewed or processed their outing. And so it's really been a great way for us to learn how each individual guy processes things. Because sometimes on paper or with your eyeballs, you'd look and say, man, that guy was rolling. He had a great outing. And then you read his building, you know, build on, work on. And he's just being incredibly hard on himself, you know, almost to the point of like, if you can't have fun with what you did yesterday, baseball is going to be way, way too hard for you. Or conversely, that's where you can learn with guys who, if they had a bad outing, like, you can help them understand, hey, your preparation was really good this week. Wasn't a preparation issue or yeah, but that first inning you came in, you came right in mid inning as a reliever and you punched out the first guy. You got us out of the inning. You, you limited that big inning and that was huge for our team to give us a chance to win. Yeah, the second inning didn't go well, but you need to really lean into what that first was. There were some good and bad in your outing. [00:40:23] Speaker B: Right. [00:40:24] Speaker C: So I'd say that's kind of where it starts for us. And then again, I do think that's kind of where you just have to be a really good coach and have the heartbeat of your team and your players. Right. You got to see when they walk onto the field every day, you can almost tell when something's right or wrong. Right. If you look those guys in the eye and if you're saying hi to them and having those conversations throughout their, you know, for us, our players get a lot of, our pitchers get a lot of pre throw time that, you know, we probably, probably almost too much to a fault, but our coach gives us a lot of time after that dynamic warmup. And so, so in that 30 minutes or so, like, I'm I'm more often than not walking around talking to those guys and checking in and then maybe that's where we can have those conversations, where we can kind of navigate those highs and lows a little bit throughout the year. [00:41:01] Speaker A: How do you handle endgame with pitch calling? How do you keep it from speeding up on you personally? [00:41:06] Speaker C: Yeah, so I do think like this is where it starts to be beneficial when I'm getting old and I have gray in my beard. Like when, when you've been calling pitches for 15 years, sometimes it helps helps not get too sped up. Now if, if the other team, if we're having trouble getting them out, sometimes that can be a challenge. But no, I, I do think like, you know, we're like most teams, we're calling it in on the wristbands now, which has been a great change to the game in terms of speeding it up. And so I've got a guy right next to me and I, I literally will tell him what the pitch calls and that helps me just to be able to look at my, my scouting report or you know, read the hitters timing and not worry about thinking, you know, looking down, punching it in. I probably punch it in wrong because I'm getting too old now, things like that. But yeah, I, I just think again when, when you know what each individual pitcher strengths are, then like it's going to help me as a pitch caller too. [00:41:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:57] Speaker C: If I know what his best end zone percentage pitch, like the pitch he actually throws in the strike zone the most, not what Bob calls it the most, but like what his end zone pitch is the most. If I know what his best swing and miss pitch is and if I know what his best pitch in terms of like called strikes or whatever because nothing bad can happen to our team in that scenario. If I know those things, then I'm probably going to be pretty good with. If it's oh, and there's nobody on base, then like we're going to lean into the strike pitch pretty good here. Two, two counts, you know, nobody wants to get to three two. Like we're going to lean into their best strike pitch. And so that probably helps simplify it a little bit for me and keep me a little bit more from, from kind of wondering or wandering as we go with the pitch calling. [00:42:31] Speaker A: You have a bunch of different looks on your staff or is everybody similar? [00:42:36] Speaker C: Try to, yeah, try to for sure. I, I think like, you know, I forget what year it was with the Rays a few years ago, but everybody can remember that graphic. We're literally like everything from here to here, left to right handed. And they had all those different looks and different spin and different things. In a perfect world it would look like that with our 15, 16 pitchers. It doesn't always. And so I do think it is a little bit of a challenge when you know a lot of our guys, again they're high school guys and so they come in as a recruited player where maybe the stuff gets better over a year or two and now they get into you know, that 88 to 92 range and in the course of a four game series over two days like if you're not careful you can roll out basically essentially the same pitcher even though you're going to a different guy for a different reason. And so I think probably the biggest thing where contrast matters is when we're making pitching changes. Obviously you got to think through that a little bit but at the end of the day like you also still have to lean into the right guy at the right time and the guys that can handle it. Even if maybe the going to the lefty would be the better thing on paper. But you know that this sinker guy from a righty, he's going to fill the zone when he comes in with a guy in second and third and one out. Like you probably still have to lean into that a little bit. For us. [00:43:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's the art that a lot of people don't pay attention to. Like who you bring in after the starter makes a huge difference and that's the art of it. Like okay, this guy might look similar but it's going to throw more strikes or this guy's an outlier and changes the eye look of the hitter and that's the art of who you bring bring in next. And that's beautiful thing about baseball. [00:44:06] Speaker C: Beautiful 100, no doubt about it. [00:44:09] Speaker A: Have you guys always stuck with this recruiting plan as far as trying to to drive it with high school guys and then you're mixing transfers in and, and where are is your majority juco transfers or four year transfers? [00:44:21] Speaker C: Good question. So yeah, we're really thankful that like while college baseball has gotten crazy the last few years and obviously it's changed so much in the last five years and then again obviously even just a week ago, right with with more changes as the goal posts keep changing with recruiting and eligibility. Like we have not had the budget on who we are. We're primarily doing it with high school kids and we are making four year agreements. We're not in the business of one year deals and so while everybody else seems to be kind of doing a different thing, especially like Division one level. And I, I, I'm not judging that. Obviously they have to do what's best for their programs, but that has allowed us to just kind of keep doing what we're doing. But, but as we continue to have these great seasons, what we're finding is we're having, having access to better high school players because they're not having as many options as maybe three or four years ago where those kids were, no doubt Division 1 players. And it's not that they aren't now from a talent standpoint, it's just with the roster spots and the way, you know, the recruiting has moved, they've got to look for some smaller school options. So on the high school side it hasn't really changed. We're just trying to do a better job of getting the best players that, not just the best baseball players, but the best baseball players that fit Taylor because again, it's a little bit of a unique thing here with, with being a Christian school and a high academic school. Like there's some real academic challenges for our guys. And so if it's just about baseball, it actually doesn't work here at Taylor. And so I think we've, we've done a pretty good job of trying to nail that fit off the field and making that an important part of our recruiting. With the four year guys and then with transfers, it's very similar. We're looking for the right fit. If that's juco, that's great. If it's a four year guy on a bounce back or sometimes. And you know this, like sometimes you had a relationship with a kid in high school, maybe you recruited him in high school and he ended up choosing something else and now he's looking for the next option. And he, he, he knows about Taylor because we, we talked to him, you know, three years ago or whenever it was. So it's just kind of a combination on, on the thing with, there with the transfers. But again, the fit piece has to be there regardless of if it's a four year guy or a transfer. [00:46:12] Speaker A: Have you found a way to balance out family and season? [00:46:15] Speaker C: No, no, it's, it's hard. It's really hard. I, I do think that like I've got a friend, Lance Marshall's a great coach at Franklin College, Division 3 guy. And this was back when I was a high school coach. I was just talking to him and he said, I said, Lance, you've been there for a long time, which is hilarious because he's been there now 15 years longer. [00:46:35] Speaker A: I was on call with him this week. [00:46:38] Speaker C: Okay, there you go. And yeah, he just said, hey, I feel really passionately that the small school level is the best level for me to do what I want to do professionally and give me the best chance to be a good dad and a good husband. And I was a real young father at the time, had just had my first daughter, and that really stuck with me. And so, so while I'm sure my wife may have a different answer in season on how I handle it, I do appreciate that typically we have Sundays built in as an off day, and I think that for us it's just kind of the rhythm of our week and just gives us a day to reset. And then I think the biggest challenge for anybody, right, is like, no matter what you're doing, when you're home, are you home or not? Right? And so if we can separate what we're doing here at work, and then by the time I get in the door, even if it's just for an hour or two hours before they go to bed, if I can just be their dad and not worry about, about the baseball side of it until later that night or the next morning, then that'll probably give me the best chance to be a good dad or a good husband. [00:47:29] Speaker A: Got any recommendations to parents out there [00:47:33] Speaker C: in terms of the, the high school parents or college or what? [00:47:36] Speaker A: High school youth? [00:47:37] Speaker C: Yeah, I, I would just say again, I, I was a, I was fortunate to be a high school coach for a long time. Both as a varsity high school coach for a couple years and then as a travel ball coach for a long time. I, I do think parents tend to panic. They tend to panic. Especially like you get to, you can almost see it in, into these tournaments. Like, you walk in and like there's some real travel ball fatigue and, and, and the financial fatigue from what they're trying to pull off to give their kid the best opportunity to, to get quote, unquote exposure or high level baseball or whatever it is. I, I do think that, like, one thing we used to tell our, our high school players when we were going through that process with them is everybody likes to say what their dream school is and they start with that, I want to go play. You know, we were in Northern Indiana with the Chargers back in the day and it was, I want to go play at Notre Dame, or at the time Vanderbilt was really, you know, running the world. It's like I'm. And I said, cool, you, and everybody Else. Okay, if you're that good. Have you heard from any of the small schools in our area? Have they reached out to you? And admittedly, like, they don't even know what the small schools are, you know, or whatever. And they'd say, well, no, I didn't have it. So you just have to help flip it on this, on the, on its head. Like if I want to play at the absolute highest level of college baseball at the best program, and if nothing else is, if nothing else below that is going to be good enough, then like, it's not going to be a fun process. But if you flip it and you say, I am not good enough to play college baseball, I need to get one coach convinced by watching me and how I go about my business to give me a shot, then all of a sudden it's going to be really exciting when you start to hear from schools and, and I just think if everybody just flipped it on its head, especially in, in 2026, with how many things are changing, right? Like, it's never been harder to be a Division 1 player out of high school. It's always been tough, but it's never been harder. And so I do think you just have to be willing to just flip it all on its head and say, okay, okay, I, I got to get myself good enough to be liked by, by somebody or some schools. And, and then it just changes the whole process. You're just more grateful to go through the process versus being disappointed because of those unmet expectations. [00:49:35] Speaker A: What about for young coaches trying to get in this thing? [00:49:39] Speaker C: I, I would just say like, no matter what level it is, high school, youth, college, whatever, like just go coach. You gotta, you gotta learn how to coach by coaching. And so very, very few programs are, are not looking for good health help, right? And so even if that means just for a little bit, you got to do it for free or for a little bit of money, like if you actually want to coach, like, then you got to coach. And so that would be one. And then I think like, you gotta, you gotta get connected with good people. You got to know people that, that know other people and things. Like the ABCA is a no brainer. That's been a huge part of kind of my journey as a coach. And, and I just think about, man, 13 or 14 years ago, whatever it is now, my first convention, and how awesome that was to see, you know, a group of people that were all there because they love baseball. And then you get to hear from some of the best coaches and you can bring Things back to your program. Like you got to be a learner and you got to be willing to network if you want to make it in this. In this for sure. [00:50:29] Speaker A: Well, and be able to ask questions too, because you mentioned Rob Childress. If you don't have the guts enough to go ask him a question, obviously doesn't impact your staff the way it did if you ask him that question. [00:50:44] Speaker C: Every good coach is a good thief. And I think, I think all of us can admit that. Like we probably had very, very few original thoughts in our life. So yeah, you got to be willing to your point, you got to talk to people, you got to be willing to have that conversation. You know this. Most baseball people are really willing to help. [00:50:58] Speaker A: Yep. What about your fail forward moment? Something you thought was going to set you back, but looking back now, it helped you move forward. [00:51:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I would just say, you know, a couple things when I'm going to go back to when I was a high school coach. First, my second year of coaching as a varsity high school coach, we were of kind coming off a pretty good year and I, I kind of thought that I had it all figured out as a 23 year old at the time. And basically what happened after the great year was we had nine seniors graduate and three were college baseball players. And I didn't realize how much that was going to impact what we were doing the next year. Right. So we had a terrible year. My Sega, I mean terrible. I think we were like 5 and 30. And my dad, who he still was very supportive and came to our last game of the season. When I got home that night for dinner, he just said, don't take this the wrong way, but those are some of the wor swings I've ever seen at the end of a season. And, and then he doubled down. He said, hey, I know you were working at it really hard and you were going out and doing, you know, two days and in, in the fall and in the preseason, he's like, what if you just started on March 10th, would you guys have won four games? You know, he's kind of, he's kind of needling me a little bit. But, but I say that because what I learned in that moment is like, you got to have good players and talent is really underrated and it doesn't matter what, you know, you can't out scheme things when you don't have enough talent on the field. And so that would be one that was really impactful for a, you know, a recruiter. Right? Yes. I have some things that I think can help guys, but, like, if you don't have good, good talent around you, it's going to be tough to be good. And then I would just say professionally, the second one is like, you know, there's obviously been some. Some job opportunities throughout the last few years and some that I have turned down because it wasn't the right thing for me or my family. And then there have been a couple that I would have absolutely, you know, enjoyed to get. But what I would say is, like, for both of those, that kind of come to mind, like, one of them really forced me to do a better job with what we're doing with our pitchers in terms of utilizing and how do we get information to them, relatable and better. So that would be one. And then I. I just think, like, with my last one maybe where it was a little bit disappointing, you know, we've obviously had a ton of success here at Taylor the last few years, and, like, I would not have gotten to experience that. And so I'm very, very grateful that maybe those moments were technically, not necessarily that I failed because I didn't get the job, but obviously it went to somebody else. And. And I've still been able to utilize those situations to enjoy what I'm doing here at Taylor, but also ultimately help us continue to get better as we go. [00:53:24] Speaker A: I think anytime you go through the interview process, it's going to help you whether you get the job or not. [00:53:28] Speaker B: Yep. [00:53:29] Speaker C: 100. [00:53:30] Speaker A: I think the more you can go through it, and not that you're job hunting, but I think the interview process is going to help you clarify a lot of things and you learn a lot about yourself. You're teaching your coaching, you personally, and I think you learn just as much from the ones you don't get as the ones you do get because it forces you to make some adjustments. And hopefully if you reach out to somebody, hey, why didn't they get the job? Hopefully they're kind enough to give you some feedback on that of like, okay, this needs to get better. This needs to get better. Because then you know what you need to continue to work on. But that's continual process with jobs, that never goes away, for sure. What about you? You're in good shape. You got any routines? Daily routines, habits? [00:54:10] Speaker C: I can't wait to clip that part where you said, I'm in good shape. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. So, no, I would just say this, like, again, like, I'm getting to that point of life where I have to. Every decision matters a little bit. More in terms of what you eat. And then I, I'm fortunate here. Like we, we've got a great facility where you know, three or four days a week I can go on my lunch and just, and get a good workout, good dad bod workout, little total body. And, and, and kind of see some of the younger guys and just revel at how much weight they're moving around compared to what I'm doing. But no, you just try and do consistent things right over time. You just try and make good decisions as best you can every day. And then I do think it's not an underrated thing. I've got three kids, kids 11, nine and six. Like they move you around a little bit. So there's some, some built in cardio at home for sure with the kids running around and trying to keep up with them. [00:54:55] Speaker A: What are your dad bod exercises? [00:54:58] Speaker C: Just big total body. Total body. Give it, you know, get good goblet squat in. [00:55:02] Speaker A: Let's do some dumbbell bench squat fan. [00:55:04] Speaker C: Yeah, let's, let's hammer some shoulder stuff because mine hurts all the time. And yeah, just again, if we can, I mean, you know, this is 30 or 40 minutes. You can get a lot done if you're more moving. [00:55:15] Speaker A: I my warm ups 10, 12 today I did a bunch. One of my crazier days is today and then I do a cool down. I think, I think if you just mix all that. I do Turkish get ups still. So you're an animal get ups anybody that wants to jump, just even if you did it with no weight. I think everybody should, should do. I think any age should learn how to do a Turkish get up and do it because I think for longevity purposes. They look at me nuts because my form is good. Like it's, it's not a lot, it's like 15 pounds. But that it will kill you. [00:55:51] Speaker C: 15 pounds. [00:55:52] Speaker A: Six reps aside for 15 pounds like that. And that's a, that's one of my finishers. So for that day of the week when I do this, this circuit that I do and it's not a lot, but my finisher is Turkish Getups. [00:56:06] Speaker C: It's one of my favorite days in the fall with our first lifting phase is watching the new guys do the Turkish get get ups and, and I get to walk by and number one, get the form right. We gotta get the form right. But number two, that look on their face like coach, you're joking me with this. And I look at them and say, hey, here's the good news. It sucks every time yes, it never gets easier. [00:56:24] Speaker A: It never gets easier. It is a brutal exercise, but I think everybody should do it. You excited about the tournament format changing for Nai? [00:56:32] Speaker C: I am, I am, yeah. [00:56:34] Speaker A: I'm pumped for you guys. [00:56:35] Speaker C: Yeah, I think like the, the six team regionals are going to be an absolute bear, but I, I do think that'll be fun. And then yeah, it, it obviously simplifies the World Series and, and just makes it a clean purposes too, 100%. And I just think like, you know, we, we even ran into it, you know, with us running off four wins in the losers bracket and then getting to the national championship game, like it got a little bit weird because of us doing that as a high seed this year with the 10 team bracket. And so obviously it's a little bit of a change. I, I, I think naturally it's going to make it a lot harder to get there too. And I think ultimately that's going to make it an even better product. And you've been out to Lewiston. It's, it's, it's unbelievable. And quite a, quite a great tournament and the way the city does it and the NAI does a great job making that a great event and just a great host. [00:57:22] Speaker A: Lewis Clark State's a great host. It's awesome. What are some final thoughts? [00:57:28] Speaker C: Well, I mean I would just say this, like I really appreciate you having me and obviously was super honored to win the award this year with the abca and yeah, I would just say for assistant coaches, like it's, it's all about, you got to start with being loyal. It's loyal to the head guy that you work for for sure. And I think we do live in a little bit of an age where there's a lot of self promotion, not just from the players, but tends to be from the coaches too. And I would just say like if you're always just worried about what's next, you're going to miss out a lot. And nobody gets the next job because they're bad at what they do. You got to be really good at what you do and you got to find a niche, an area that you're an expert in. And if you do that and do a good job, people will notice and that'll all work itself out as far as what the next thing is for you on your journey. [00:58:08] Speaker A: Thanks for your time, Justin. [00:58:09] Speaker B: Appreciate you, sir. [00:58:10] Speaker C: Thanks Ryan. I appreciate you having me. [00:58:12] Speaker B: Congrats to Coach Barber and Taylor on the historic run they're having with the program. I really enjoyed my conversation with him, you can see why the Taylor pitching staff has excelled under his leadership. Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale and Matt Weston, ABC Office for all [00:58:26] Speaker A: the help on the podcast. [00:58:27] Speaker B: Feel free to reach out to me via email r brownlybca.org Twitter, Instagram or TikTok coachbrca or direct message me via the Mybis app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off for the American Baseball Coaches Association. [00:58:39] Speaker A: Thanks and leave it better for those behind you. And you know that way Yep Wait for another. [00:59:01] Speaker C: And the world will always return as [00:59:06] Speaker A: your love is ever for yearning and you know that I wait Wait for a night Other.