Jay Johnson - Head Coach, LSU

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the abca's podcast. I'm your host brian brownlee. This episode is sponsored by Netting Pros. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Netting Professionals specializes in the design, fabrication and installation of custom netting for backstops, batting cages, dugouts, BP screens and ball carts. They also design and install digital graphic wall padding, windscreen, turf, turf protectors, dugout benches, dugout cubbies and more. Netting Professionals is an official partner of the ABCA and continues to provide quality products and services to many high school, college and professional fields, facilities and stadiums throughout the country. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Contact them today at 844-620-2707 or infoettingpros.com visit them online at www.nettingpros.com or check out Netting Pros on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects. Make sure to let CEO Will Minor know that the ABCA sent you. Now on to the podcast. Next up on the ABCA podcast is ABCA ATEC Division 1 coach of the Year LSU head Coach Jay Johnson. Johnson led LSU to this year's national championship and was his third appearance in Omaha with two previous at the University of Arizona, Johnson got his coaching start at Point Loma with ABC hall of famer Dr. Carol Land. After he finished playing, Johnson continued his coaching career in Southern California, heading to San Diego to be the recruiting coordinator. Johnson put together top 25 recruiting classes while he was at San Diego, including Golden Spikes Award winner and future MLB star Chris Bryant. Johnson took over the Nevada program in 2014, being named the Mountain West Coach of the year in 2015. Johnson coached at Arizona from 2016 to 2021, taking the Wildcats two world appearances and playing for the national championship in 2016. Johnson was hired by LSU in the fall of 2021. Johnson has a blueprint for recruiting and developing players and it's no different nowadays with the Tigers program. This episode is a deep dive into running an elite program coaching elite players, recruiting and player development let's welcome J. Johnson to the podcast. How long have you guys been going? [00:02:50] Speaker B: You know, just individual work. I like going as late as possible, honestly, with the weather's actually better in October and November here. Like yeah, this time of year we actually get a little bit of rain in the afternoon, so it's actually better, you know, in October, November. [00:03:09] Speaker A: So will you start after the recruiting period? [00:03:11] Speaker B: Then we start like the Thursday, the last weekend, that Thursday. So like Josh and Terry will go over to Jupiter and we'll Start and that. But that'll be the only time they have to miss anything. [00:03:23] Speaker A: So that's why. [00:03:24] Speaker B: Reason. [00:03:25] Speaker A: That's why we started pushing our barnstormers till after. [00:03:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:29] Speaker A: Jupiter. Just to give the college guys a chance to, to get all that out of the way. It's actually worked better doing it that way. Good. Much better. [00:03:37] Speaker B: So, yeah, I was not in favor of that rule of like lessening the time and now that we've been doing it for four or five years, whatever, it's like I don't even remember or care anymore. [00:03:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's how every recruiting calendar rule is. It's like, okay, in the initial you're like, ah. And then afterwards. And I do like for you all that you do get some built in breaks because it forces guys because you're like me, like you. You would go. If you're able to go, you would go. And I just think it's, it's good that it pulls the reins back on guys that need it because those of us that wouldn't have stopped. [00:04:11] Speaker B: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. And just as a head coach now, like for a number of years, it's like I don't ever want to not be with our team. Like I will not miss anything in the spring season to go to see anybody. [00:04:25] Speaker A: Yes. Yep. Definitely good here. Jay Johnson, head coach at lsu. ABCA ATEC Coach of the Year. But three appearances, the College World Series, two with Arizona, national championship this year with lsu, but spent time at Nevada, San Diego, Point Loma. Jay, thanks for coming on with me. [00:04:40] Speaker B: Good to be on. Thanks for having me, Ryan. [00:04:42] Speaker A: Hey, what Carol Land mean to your career? [00:04:45] Speaker B: Wow. This name that not everybody asked me about, but Coach Land was awesome and, and the most important thing he ever did for me was give me a chance to play. And just a junior college transfer went on a visit to San Diego. Never been to San Diego in my life. And. And flew into downtown and went over and saw that field by the ocean. And I was like, I'm gonna have a good workout here today. Because it was in the time you could work out, you know, for coaches. And luckily had a good workout. And he gave me an opportunity and really changed my life. And you know, from then, you know, I was able to come on as an assistant coach and he was the athletic director and supported us and supported me and helping me get off to a great start in my coaching career. And so when I think about Coach Land, you know, I think about opportunity and you know, when you give a young person opportunity can change Your life. And that's certainly what happened with me. [00:05:40] Speaker A: I miss him in our meetings, you know, I do miss him. He was one of the guys you don't know. You get out of coaching, you go work for the abca. And, you know, one of our first meetings, he was one of the first guys I interacted with, and he made me feel extremely comfortable. He's a great human being. Miss him a lot. So, you know, with your career path, how to know the right move? Or is it basically betting on yourself or making the situation you're at as good as possible, you know, with. With career path? [00:06:06] Speaker B: That's a good question, I think. I read Andy Lopez's book a long time ago, and I remember something that. That stuck out to me that he said, and this is when I'm a very young coach at 22, 23, 24 years old, whatever. He. He had a statement of, like, you really need to have the attitude the big time is where you are. And I really took that to heart. I've say this, and it's kind of strange to look back on it now. Like, I never wanted to leave any place that I was at because I was so invested in the team, so invested in the program, and really have been very fortunate to be at the right places around the right people, and most of those right people have always been the right players as far as making moves. You know, it's just, it's. It's a tough call sometimes, you know, leaving, you know, even Point Loma, you know, to. To go with Rich Hill to the University of San Diego, which was the best move of my career, to, to do that. And spending time with Coach Hill, he's. He's one of the best coaches in all of college baseball. I learned so much for. For eight years. And. And I think that was a good lesson maybe that maybe some people can. Can take is like, I was not in a hurry when I was there at all. Like, I mean, eight years is a good long run, you know, to be an associate head coach or assistant coach. And I think what was good about that is when I left for Nevada, that that was probably the one that was easy because I felt ready and felt very prepared and. But the last couple have been hard. You know, we got off to such a great start at Nevada, and I loved Reno, loved the University of Nevada. We won a championship in short order, which was the first Mountain west championship in any sport that the University of Nevada had won. Going to Arizona was like a dream job, and felt like there was no way I could pass that up and very proud of what we did at Arizona and really believed that I was going to, that was going to be my spot and career job and was totally invested. And then, you know, the way I've always tried to kind of explain it, I guess, is I really believed Arizona was the best job for me personally. The only way I was going to leave it was for the best job in the country, period. And that's what I believe LSU is. So I've been very fortunate being around a lot of good people as far as making career moves. There's a lot of different factors for a lot of people. You know, I mean, I was a single guy for a long time. You know, we don't have children now, so it makes those things a little easier. And I certainly respect coaches that have families and there's a lot of dynamics to fit into these moves. And, you know, I think it's, it's like we tell players all the time, you know, make pros and cons and, you know, pray about it, follow your heart and, you know, you end up in hopefully the best situation for you. [00:09:03] Speaker A: I mean, what about Nevada made you think, okay, I can get this turned around because obviously San Diego is a better situation than Nevada is. [00:09:13] Speaker B: You know, I, I kind of always looked back at, you know, when were the best times of success for that program and for Nevada. Gary Powers was a legendary coach there for a long time and you know, his pitching coach and recruiting coordinator there was John Savage for a while. And you know, what they did is, is they dominated recruiting in Southern California. And we all know the volume of quality players in Southern California, you know, and having spent eight years in San Diego and we were really doing a good job recruiting, like we were getting Pac 12 caliber players at San Diego or Power 5 caliber players that I felt like I could kind of bring that back and we could get Nevada, you know, on the map or on the minds, more importantly, of some really good players. And I've always tried to get better players than I should at the school that I'm at. Like, that's, that's kind of a recruiting goal for me. And I really believe that we did that and was really proud of that. And, you know, in 2016 we played for the national championship at Arizona. But I really believed had I gone back to Nevada, we could have gotten to the College World Series in 2016 had everything stayed the same. And it's one of those time warp things, like sometimes you wish you could go back and watch what would have happened you know, but I love that place and really proud of what we did there. [00:10:37] Speaker A: You've had a ton of success as an assistant. As a head coach, who do you feel like impacts the players more? [00:10:44] Speaker B: Wow. I don't think you can have an elite program without great assistant coaches. I think, you know, something I've learned about success is if you want success, you need to get as many talented people around you as possible that are experts at the job that you need them to do. I think assistant coaches are incredibly undervalued, you know, in terms of the credit that they get, you know, and depending on a head coach's model for how they run their program, a lot of times those guys are building the roster well. There's no more important thing that we do in terms of winning than building the correct roster. Some of them are elite at their side of the ball, whether that's pitching development, hitting development, developing infielders. Like, they have such a stake in what success a team or a program has. And, you know, I think how I view them is if you get an assistant coach that values winning, that cares about the program success the way a head coach does, then you got something really special. If they have that care level designed with a tool set to. To help pro. Help the program execute. I mean, as far as the head coach, it's just. It's all responsibility. Like, you're. You're responsible for everything in the program, whether that's leadership, culture, baseball development, recruiting. So you're wearing a lot of hats, and we all have different strengths, you know, in those regards. I don't think you can have a great program without a really strong head coach or great assistant coaches. [00:12:25] Speaker A: Because you were point Loma. You were head assistant, then head coach. I mean, what pulled you out of being head coach, then go to San Diego? Because there's a lot of guys that can't do that. I mean, there are. There's a lot of guys that once they take over program, they're going to have a hard time going back to being an assistant. [00:12:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I reference that as the best move I've made. Of all of these moves, it was also the toughest. And, you know, at 26, 27 years old, you know, have an opportunity to run a program. You know, do all of the game management, make mistakes, you know, build a roster in recruiting, take extreme ownership in. In that, like, nobody gets to do that anymore. Like, I mean, it was. It was unbelievable. But, you know, I got some really good advice. I. I didn't want to do it, and I Was looking for an excuse not to do it, frankly. But, you know, it became down to this. Like, what, what is your ultimate goal? You know, I wanted to be a head coach at a Division 1 school that had realistic opportunities to go to Omaha and win a national championship. And so once I had laid that out, you know, I started talking to a few people that I respect and it's just like, hey, man, you can continue to do a great job there. Kill it. Go to the NAIA World Series, win all these games, and you're not going to get to go to one of those programs. You need to get in and learn on the recruiting side of it and the coaching side of it, the development of a program side of it. And as I mentioned, you know, coach Rich Hill is one of the best I've ever seen. And Lucky took a chance on me and it was tough at first and didn't really want to do it, but really glad I rolled the dice and took a chance and gained a lot from that. [00:14:11] Speaker A: I knew you were in kill the first time I met you. I met you at the San Diego County All Star Game. When you were at San Diego. I, I just knew, like, you're one of those infectious personalities. When I met you, I was like, okay, whatever this guy ends up doing, it's going to be really good. [00:14:25] Speaker B: I appreciate that. Thank you, stud. [00:14:28] Speaker A: Hey, I was going to ask you about the pitchcom stuff that for. Because obviously I was out of the game when it came in. Do you feel like that's revolutionized the game a little bit? [00:14:36] Speaker B: I think it helps. I think tempo is a big deal in our, in our sport. I think, you know, everybody on the outside is doing everything that they possibly can to speed up the game. And I think one of the beautiful things about baseball is there is no clock and have a different feeling and thought on that than fan engagement and all these types of things. But on, on the defensive side of it, I love it. I love the, the tempo. I think it helps the infielders and the defense engage at a better level, play better defense. I think it takes out the guesswork, eliminate some of the sign stealing stuff where you could put yourself in a vulnerable position of, of losing. So I think it's way positive and, and was really helpful for us last year. [00:15:22] Speaker A: How soon until it rolls onto the offensive side? It's almost getting like football with play calling. [00:15:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that would be a program by program decision. I, I don't know that we would do that on that side of it. You know, just on, on that side of the ball, you want, you want the other team to stand out there as long as possible. So. [00:15:43] Speaker A: And I'm thinking more from a sign stealing perspective. [00:15:47] Speaker B: Good point. Yeah, good point. There's, it's, it's, there's pluses and minuses to everything that, that you do. You know, some might say, you know, the pitchcom thing might take away a little bit from the pitcher, catcher relationship, you know, and communication in that regard. But they're only allowed so many mountain visits now anyway, so, you know, I think there's pluses and minuses to everything. I think for us it was a huge positive. [00:16:13] Speaker A: How hard was it for you to not let Paul Skeens hit? [00:16:17] Speaker B: We hit like nine home runs and like 50 at bats in the fall and I'm not a math genius because [00:16:23] Speaker A: that you could, you just heard rumblings about your fall stuff and I'm like, oh, they might have to let the guy hit. Yeah. [00:16:32] Speaker B: And you know, he, he definitely could have done it. I, I tell people all the time, if he was just a regular everyday position player last year, he would have hit 20 to 25 home runs, would have hit over 300, would have been a prospect as a, a catcher if that's what he decided to do. I think it became very clear as we were moving down the line in, in the fall, like I've never had a pitcher like this and we had a great offensive team, you know, one of the best in recent college baseball history, that we could win big without him hitting, but we could not have, could not have won what we did and win a national championship if he was not a part of our pitching staff. And then it became risk, reward another guy that's going to put up some numbers. But if we lose this player on the mound, there's no way you could have duplicated it. [00:17:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Did you know you he had that type of leadership? I mean, I've read a lot. I know he's a service academy kid, but did you know he had that type of leadership? [00:17:32] Speaker B: Well, it was more impressive than I thought. But having intuition or research if you will, in the recruiting process, I knew we were getting an elite human being that's not coming around very often. And there was a ton of urgency on our end just to get the player, you know, the elite pitcher. But there was like this heightened awareness of how important his recruitment was going to be because of the person. And all of that was absolutely true. I don't think I've ever seen a one year player impact a program both on and off the field the way Paul did LSU baseball last year, in [00:18:09] Speaker A: such a positive fashion and almost a throwback. Feel like just from the outside looking in where he's getting after guys about the weight room and just in a good way, you know, you want your best players to lead from the front. And it looked like in all facets, like he's leading from the front, trying to pull everybody with him. [00:18:25] Speaker B: No doubt about it. I mean, we had this thing last year, you know, talking about player leadership like it was one of the four things that last year's team was going to have to do if we were going to accomplish our goal, which was to win the national championship. And we talked about this concept of confronting and demanding more out of each other. And confrontation is not, you know, the old school, throwing somebody up against the locker room door and that sort of thing. That's not what we're talking about. But it's holding each other to a standard above winning. And when you get this superimposing, you know, six foot seven guy, come up and say you can do better, you know, or just have a conversation about pulling the best out of a teammate in a non demeaning way, made players want to raise their own bar. And then you watch his preparation and then you watch how he carries himself and then you watch how excited he got for his teammate. Success. There's no way you're. You're not going to follow that guy. I mean, some of the times I got on him were over celebrating, like doing forearm shivers with Dylan Cruz after a home run and like, hey man, keep your feet on the ground and let's not bang your arm against somebody else. But that just speaks to how awesome [00:19:41] Speaker A: Paul is, you know, and I know the type of person and coach you are. You know, you bring all these high profile guys in where that. Was there any hesitation on your part that are we going to get guys enough innings, enough at bats? Was there any hesitation? I mean, I know you as a person and as coach and I'm like, okay, that's the right guy that's gonna be able to handle all of this, you know, was there any hesitation on your part with the amount of, you know, high profile guys in there, are we going to be able to get enough time for everybody? [00:20:06] Speaker B: You know, I think we just have to be intentional about what you're doing with every area of your program. And so what could go wrong? We, we immense. I just mentioned we player leadership was going to be incredibly important. You know, the concept of being a great teammate and being Selfless was one of the other four things that was really, really important in terms of what that team was doing and, and getting them around this mindset to always place the needs of the team above their own. Being a good teammate. I think sometimes as coaches, we make the mistake of just assuming that's the way you should be. Well, it's a skill, and so no different than drag bunning, throwing a change up. You know, we invest in trying to develop those skills. We just invested a lot of time in teaching guys to be great teammates. And to us, it's very simple. That just means I will always place the needs of the team above my own. Then you throw in that player leadership component where they were all demanding and out of each other. It was, it was pretty special. And in terms of my thoughts on it, you know, it was a special team, you know, and we develop guys. That's one thing that I take a lot of pride in is whether you're player number one or number 35 on the roster, you're going to get attention from our coaching staff and you're going to get developed on a daily basis. And we really live that out. And as a head coach, really pushing our assistant coaches in that manner. Everybody knows they're going to get better playing at LSU because our coaching staff is engaged with every member of the team. [00:21:36] Speaker A: Are you still using that leadership group that you Talked about in 2016 on your main stage? Are you still using that leadership group that you talked about? [00:21:45] Speaker B: You know, it really depends on the team that you have. You know, the, the concept of captains, the concept of everybody on the team can and should be a leader, because what is a leader? They're emulating positive qualities that you want permeating throughout the program, where after a while, everybody is just positively affecting everybody else. And so there's a. You could go with the captain deal that's kind of phased out. You know, at times we've done a leadership group and then you want it just to. To filter into. Everybody on in the program is establishing and exhibiting leadership qualities. [00:22:24] Speaker A: All right, where'd you come up with the post game selfie? Because by the way, I stole it immediately. When you started posting those at Arizona, I was like, were you doing that at Nevada too? [00:22:34] Speaker B: Yeah. So when I was at San Diego, Coach Hill, his thought behind it was like, hey, we're going to do this after home games and then we're going to take a picture and then we're going to send it to a donor, you know, like, you know, hey, this is what you helped create. And then everybody was like always smiling and having a good time with it. And then so I started thinking when I went to Nevada, we're going to do this, but we're going to do this in the thought of we're going to respect winning. Like winning a Division 1 baseball game is not easy and you've accomplished something on that day. And if we're going to value winning, I want something to be at the end of the road each day, you know, as you accomplish that. And then it just turned into like, hey, we're going to put it out on, on social media. And it just kind of turned into this like big thing where really what it exemplifies or signifies is as a program we're going to value winning and when we win, we're going to celebrate the accomplishment of winning just that one game. [00:23:36] Speaker A: Yeah, it's called savoring. That's a, that's a joy and well being thing. It's about savoring moments where, you know, with life it gets fast and then you just kind of flush it. And that's a savoring thing where like you have to enjoy those moments because obviously we know it's how hard it is to win those games. You have to savor those moments. Great piece. I loved. Yeah, I stole. I was like, we need to be doing that. Yeah. I consider you kind of a newer generation coach. You still have old school components to you, but I do consider you kind of that newer generation of, of coach. Was your dad that way? [00:24:07] Speaker B: Yeah, my dad was an elite high school football coach, track coach that I believe was just well ahead of his time and I really believe he could have coached in the NFL had he chosen to do that. But I was lucky. He spent a lot of time around me and my brother and coaching us and coaching his high school teams and deer hunting and duck hunting on the weekends. And it was a really, really cool life to, to be a part of. I think he was really good at a few things. He was really good at, at getting people to buy into the concept that they have value to the team. And, and no matter if you were the star running back quarterback, if you were on special teams, if you were, you know, in a different event in a track meet, like you could impact winning. And he just was really good at getting everybody to feel like they had value. And so that's something that I really took from him. Hard work, integrity, honesty was just like every day without me knowing it at the time was like a full on clinic in my House of this is how you should be as a coach and as a leader. [00:25:17] Speaker A: Do you feel like this was the most balanced college World Series field we had? [00:25:23] Speaker B: Wow. Of the three times I've been there, there was by far the most talent. And I think about, you know, who we faced along the way. I mean, Andrew Lindsay in game one against Tennessee will probably pitch in the major leagues. Josh Hartle from Wake Forest is going to pitch in the major leagues. Drew Beam from Tennessee is going to pitch in the major leagues. I mean, Rhett Louder, Seth Keener from Wake are probably going to pitch in the major leagues along with their entire bullpen, you know, with and Massey and those guys. And that was just our bracket. And then you get to the finals and it's Brandon, Sproat, Hurston, Waldrop and Caglion. So literally we may not have played a college World Series game where we did not face a major league pitcher. It was unbelievable. What, what an awesome experience. And just the high level baseball, like you knew it while it was happening. [00:26:13] Speaker A: I was so excited showing up in Omaha. I was like, oh, the field is tremendous this year. It's just, and, and that's the, you know, the credit to the, and the players that we have at this level now. I think it's the best it's ever been. It's going to continue to get better too. [00:26:27] Speaker B: Yeah, no doubt. And I think, you know, kind of what I've learned is you can't even make it there anymore unless you have future major leaguers on your team and you have old, you have to have old players that really know what they're doing. You have to have both of those things to, to even sniff getting into the College World Series now. And it was something else. Like when you were in some of those games, you knew you were in the middle of it and it was awesome to coach in. [00:26:52] Speaker A: I mean, what were your conversations with the team all year with your fan base, the media, the outside noise? I mean, everybody expected you guys to run the table, like not lose a game. Like that's not realistic expectations. So, like, what are your conversations with the guys throughout the year to kind of keep them centered in from the outside noise because you're going to hear it. [00:27:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, I think foundationally we're a very, you know, work oriented program. Like the preparation is a big deal. And so I feel like the first year, which was a very successful season in 2020, I mean, other than getting to Omaha, we had a very, very successful season. I think we laid a good foundation there. And it was just like, this is how we roll. Kind of was established in terms of prep, in terms of work, in terms of respecting. It's not about winning. It's about doing what it takes to win really, really well. And if you do all those things, then you can kind of surrender the result. You're not hostage to the result or what somebody says or thinks about you because, you know, your process is really, really solid. And so I think that was the first part of it. The other thing, as far as being number one and you know, all of those types of things, we just kind of explained it like, you know, it's like a house is burning down. And that would basically be how I would explain the SEC or playing in the sec. And if you hesitate at all as the firemen of running straight in there, people are going to die. The house is going to burn down. Like you can't even get. There's no hesitation. We're going to run right towards this thing and get the hose out, you know, get people out of there, you know, so to speak, as a metaphor or whatever, and attack like this, this expectation and, and focus on the play and the things that we're really, really good at and be consistent in those things. And, and they did that. I mean, I, yeah, you only lost [00:28:40] Speaker A: two weekends during SEC play. That's really hard to do. Like, I know people from the outside, they don't realize how hard that is to only lose two weekends in the sec. [00:28:49] Speaker B: The thing that I will always be the most proud of is the consistency. I mean, we were number one for 12 weeks in a row. And then the response to just a little bit of adversity and you know, which was, yeah, Auburn, we lost two out of three, the number one seed in the NCAA tournament. And then I think we lost two out of three at home to Mississippi State, who played really well that weekend. And I mean, we were a couple pitches away from sweeping the series. So that's just the league. And I think, you know, really, I've gotten some good advice from coaches in the league and former coaches of the importance of a steady hand and have really tried to just be that way because you're going to get punched in the mouth and it doesn't matter what anybody else on the outside thinks, you just, you got to kind of keep doing your deal. [00:29:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the thing that sticks out to me about a majority of our high level coaches now at your level is just, they're even keeled. They just expect there's, there's no Ups and downs with you guys, you know, and we get set by the dugout, so I pick attention. I'm like, okay, these guys, they're steady, their temperature steady, you know, their, their heartbeat steady. Because the players gonna be wound up anyway. [00:29:56] Speaker B: Yeah, you don't want to add your own stuff onto them. It's kind of the way I think about. I'll. They'd make a. I said this one time, and they make a joke of me. It's like, oh, those, those losses hurt. And there's some long nights at home where I'm drinking a glass of orange juice, staring at the moon and the ceiling. I said that one time. And then, you know, they'll say, no, orange juice denied after a good game, you know. [00:30:17] Speaker A: So, hey, knowing you're getting into the NCAA tournament, is it better to, to go out early, out early of the SEC tournament, or does it matter? [00:30:27] Speaker B: I don't believe that for one second. Yeah, I know there's a recent history of, you know, people, because Ole Miss [00:30:33] Speaker A: had to battle their way through. They won the national championship the year before, and they had to battle their way through the SEC tournament to get there. [00:30:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I don't, I don't subscribe to, to that. You know, it's, it's a fun environment. I think we make some strategic decisions sometimes. Like, I mean, I took Paul Skeens out in the fourth inning. I took Ty Floyd out when he was throwing a great game. And I believe had we left those guys in there, you know, we might have been 3, 0 playing in the championship instead of 1 and 2 going home. So I think there's some element to that. But I mean, you know, you're not going to ever convince me that losing a game is, is better for you. [00:31:13] Speaker A: You know, people are kind of up in arms that you're going to start Paul Steen's against Tulane, but you have to go with your best guy at that point, don't you? [00:31:21] Speaker B: There's a lot of things that went into that. I think looking at Tulane, if you just looked on the surface and looked at their record, you would go, why would you do that? But they just won six games. They got hot. [00:31:31] Speaker A: They got hot. [00:31:31] Speaker B: You know, the AAC in my opinion, is probably the best non Power 5 baseball league in America. And you know, I just didn't, I didn't feel like we were playing a team that was, you know, 20 and 40 or whatever they were. And Jay Ullman is a really good coach. So I knew they were going to come in prepared to play And I just kind of thought like, you know, just a regional and the NCAA tournament, like getting our team settled into it. What a better way to do that than, than pitch the best guy in the country. The other thing which actually proved to be true is the, the lightning and the rainstorm deal was a factor and we started the next game the next day and got shut down after three innings. So if, if that was Paul, that would have been it for the weekend. And I like having him throw 9, 9 innings over the course of a weekend. A lot better than three, you know. [00:32:23] Speaker A: Are you still as involved with coaching hitters as you were before? [00:32:28] Speaker B: Yes, we have a great assistant. Doesn't nearly get enough credit. Mark Wanaka, who's been the only coach that's been with me through all of, and I mean, we've been friends for 23, 25 years and you know, there's no mixed messaging going on. I mean our offensive systems are. Offensive system, whether it's swing mechanics, approach mental game, situational hitting, and so the players are always getting the same messages. But he works really, really hard. But that's my specialty and I've always continued to try to dive into it and it'll be important this year. We have a, a number of players obviously that moved on to professional baseball from last year's team. And so we're starting that process all over again. But you know, I'm, I'm heavily involved, but I have Coach Wanaka right there with me and, and we try to tag team it together. [00:33:19] Speaker A: Do you feel like that's a key to longevity as a coach, is sticking with your strengths? [00:33:23] Speaker B: I think it's really important. Yeah, I think it's really important. [00:33:28] Speaker A: Dylan Cruz or Chris Bryant? [00:33:31] Speaker B: Oh man, no way I'm answering that. Say this. You know, when I, when I had Chris playing for us at San Diego, I thought, I will never have another player like this. Like this dude has it all. I mean, he's four time all star, mvp, world champion, Rookie of the Year, Golden Spikes, minor league. I mean, who does that? I think he's the only guy in the history of life that's ever done that and was special. And I'm very thankful for Chris because I would never have been on this coaching journey that I've been on if Chris didn't play for us for three years. I'm convinced of that. So I owe everything to him. And then when I was deciding whether to accept this job at LSU or not, knowing I was going to have Dylan Cruz for two years was definitely a factor. Well, Then he completely exceeded any expectation that I had. I mean this is a guy that mental game play hard talent. I mean he has five, all five tools. And those five tools showed up every day over two years to help us win. And he was an unbelievable leader like Paul Skeens. So, you know, hopefully the next Chris Bryant, Dylan Cruz wants to come to LSU too, because to both those players, you know, both as people and as players, completely changed my life. [00:34:55] Speaker A: Where's Tommy White factoring as far as approach? Because I think his approach is as good as I've seen in a long time at the plate. [00:35:04] Speaker B: Yeah, he's special. He's really special. He was coached very well from a very early age. Like he really, really knows what he's doing and has a ton of ability. You know, both, you know, visually with his eyes, obviously with his bat speed, his strength mechanically is incredibly sound. Approach, as you mentioned, is, is elite. He's a lot of fun to coach. And you know, I would put Chris and Dylan in this category where I mean, you could be right in the middle of the game, walk up to the on deck circle and just go like, this is what you need to do right now. This is the adjustment you need to make right now. Immediately take it to the plate and homer to right center. They're special. And I would put Tommy in, in that category with those guys as a hitter. Absolutely. [00:35:50] Speaker A: Just the ability to drive the ball the other way. You haven't seen that. Obviously it hasn't been taught as much, but that's an innate thing too. But his ability to be able to take a middle out pitch and drive it over the fence the other way, you just haven't seen it in a while. [00:36:03] Speaker B: Not at all. And I mean, is that clutch Gene? I mean he hunts RBI is like he's a really, really special hitter. Yeah. [00:36:10] Speaker A: And, and willing to make adjustments with two strikes, especially in RBI situations. Hey, did you make any adjustments with Trey Morgan? It looked like his swing and approach were maybe a little bit different than what I saw last summer and carry from him. [00:36:24] Speaker B: He is, he is phenomenal. I'm really glad you brought him up. Like, he is one of the most competitive players I've ever coached. And you know, in a, in a quieter way, largely because we had Dylan and Tommy, I've rarely had a player impact winning as much as Trey has impacted winning. And you know, we just, we try to tighten his zone down a little bit because he's got such good hand eye, literally touches everything. Well, he was swinging at some pitches. We didn't want him to touch because they were going to end up being ground balls to the second baseman, weak fly balls to the left fielder. And he just did such a good job this year of tightening that down. Allowed him to drive the ball a little bit more. And he's awesome. I'm so proud of him. And he, he's definitely going to be a major leaguer. And you know, the Tampa Bay Rays draft better than pretty much anybody and they develop better than pretty much anybody. So not an accident that they picked Trey very, very high and I think we'll see him in the major leagues very soon. [00:37:25] Speaker A: You know, with your, with your offensive coaching, I mean you've been so good for so long, but you brought up good points in 2016 about high core bit. But obviously Alex box a little different type of environment from a hitter friendly ballpark. Does it change at all or is it still the same for you? No matter what park you're going into is definitely different. [00:37:44] Speaker B: I mean, you know, one of the biggest people ask me what's different out here. It's like all the parks in the SEC are incredibly small. I mean ours is the most fair in the league and I think it's small. You know what I mean? So you have to look at the game a little bit differently. And the other thing too is the pitching that we see is so good. I mean I just referenced, you know, two teams in our league that it's big leaguers all throughout the starting rotation, no question about it, and in the bullpen. So it depends on what you have. It depends on, you know, what you're up against. And you know, we just want to build the offense around being able to win any type of game, low scoring, slug fest, any type of park, wind blown in, wind blown out, day game, night game. Like can we be proficient that we can have our offense travel, you know, if you will, that can be successful in any circumstance. That obviously starts with really good players. And especially for the last few years, I've had really, really good players at these two schools. [00:38:40] Speaker A: Does every championship team have a Cade Beloso? [00:38:44] Speaker B: I believe so. [00:38:45] Speaker A: Yeah, they do, don't they? You look at Elko the year before, like, yeah, for me I felt like he was this year's kind of Elko. Just no doubt older guy, been through the wars. [00:38:55] Speaker B: If it wasn't for Paul Skeen's unbelievable performance, Cade Bloso would have been the MVP of the College World Series. [00:39:01] Speaker A: You know, when you're looking at opponent stats, what are the most ones that. What are the ones that are most important to you if you're looking at [00:39:09] Speaker B: any, you know, it depends. I mean, we, we blend a lot of that. Have a good analytics guy named Jamie Tutko who stands next to me in the dugout. He was on the, the previous staff with Coach Maneri and sat down with him and you know, it was, it was an easy decision to keep him, but he's been unbelievable. And you know, I take the game prep very seriously and our staff throughout. The staff does a good job, whether it's Coach Wanaka with positioning, you know, last year, you know, Wes Johnson or the year before Jason Kelly or now Nate. Yes. Who's coached with me at Arizona. Those guys do a great job breaking down lineups. I'm kind of looking at the totality of the thing. So it's just a blend of analytics, numbers, video game prep. We have a good process. I think the things that stand out are the game's just built around the strike zone, you know, I mean, still to this day, you know, the pitchers command the strike zone to hitters control the strike zone. [00:40:08] Speaker A: At elite level coaching, is there such a thing as work life balance? [00:40:14] Speaker B: No. I'm not going to answer this the way that, you know, everybody would want me to and you know, I just, I, I think you have to know yourself. And this is how I would answer. This is like for some people, really being able to take a step away helps them do a better job. If you're that person, your staff better be elite and dialed in in all ways. You know, for me, it doesn't really work well. I mean, it's. I would never want to lose a game or lose a recruit or have a poor practice because I felt like I was not prepared. And so it takes me longer to do my job and I'm just kind of self aware at that. So I don't have great balance. I have an unbelievable wife, Maureen, who is right there alongside me. It'd be my walk in the door at 9 o' clock and I want to chill out and watch TV or something like that. And then we're right on top of talking about our team and, you know, what happened throughout the day and things that I need to do. So I'm very, very lucky in that regard. [00:41:15] Speaker A: Do you think it helps? [00:41:15] Speaker B: She was a college athlete big time. [00:41:17] Speaker A: Yeah, it does, doesn't it? Yeah, she, she gets it. Like she knows. She knows what it takes. [00:41:23] Speaker B: You could easily be a Power 5 ad today if she worked for Bob Stoops at Oklahoma. Compliance director for Oklahoma football associate AD at Nevada and Arizona. And I'm lucky in that regard. I mean, there's one thing to understand it, there's another thing to like jump into this thing. And, and that helps because if it wasn't for her, I'd probably be still very single at this point in time. [00:41:46] Speaker A: I mean, what were the tips that Skip Bertman and Paul Maneri gave you after you took the job? [00:41:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been unbelievable, you know, to have those guys to, to. I mean, nobody has what I have in terms of two guys in town that are two of the best of all time at this job. And, and I definitely soaked that up. Like, that's, that's been the best part of this job for me personally is, you know, engaging and having a relationship with those two guys. I, I tell a joke all the time. It's like Coach Burtman, when I, I first met him, he's like, I'm never going to tell you what to do, but you need to do these three things [00:42:23] Speaker A: and. Wow. [00:42:25] Speaker B: I, I mean, I don't even know where to start. I mean, because, I mean, it's, it's so often. I talked to Coach Burtman three times a week. Coach Mary was in my office this morning today. And you know, it's, it's been really valuable. Like, I literally can't give you a number one because the, I mean, I'm talking to them all the time, which has been amazing. [00:42:45] Speaker A: Yeah, because that, I mean, you kind of alluded to it. Does it take you kind of that first year of being in the SEC to kind of get comfortable with it after that, or do you ever really get comfortable with it? [00:42:54] Speaker B: You know, I don't know. I mean, I just have so much respect for where college baseball is right now. You know, it's our league or I mean, Wake Forest. Like, that's the best college pitching staff I've, I've ever seen in doing this. You know, it's just there's so many good players and, and schools are pouring into baseball now with resources and there's really smart people that are diving into coaching and there's really motivated, hard working people that are into coaching right now. So I just think the bar is, is raised so high now for what excellence is and what it takes, and it makes it really fun to compete in. [00:43:30] Speaker A: I mean, was it any different for you after you guys won it? [00:43:35] Speaker B: It's a good question. I've really tried to take a few minutes here and there, you know, even this as late as a couple days ago to go back and Watch some highlights and, or from the season or you know, the College World Series just to, to not lose that because that was really, really special. But I think you have to honor the process of what it takes to, to get there. And ours is very scripted and very laid out of what we're doing, when we're doing it, how we're doing it. And so we've been, been on that. I did, I will admit it was a little bit of a wake up call of like, okay, you want it, but that doesn't change what's needed to keep it going. And we won on Monday night. Greatest night of my life. I did not want to go to sleep, so stayed up till about 4:30 in the morning, went back over to the ballpark Tuesday morning, just kind of hung out there for a few minutes. We flew back Tuesday, had a great celebration here Wednesday and then Thursday and Friday it's individual player meetings and Saturday morning I was on a plane and out recruiting and so it was definitely an eye opener. [00:44:42] Speaker A: We're so different. Baseball is so different than any other sports because there's no downtime. Once you're, once you're done, it's move on, which is good and bad one, it's good especially if you didn't end the way that you wanted to because now, okay, I can get on the road and. But it's bad because when you have a national championship season, like there's, there's no time for it. You got to move on and get to the next thing. [00:45:03] Speaker B: It's, it's funny that you say that like, you know, I mean, lost in the College World Series a couple times. You know, you always end your season with a loss unless you win the national championship. And getting to the next thing was like, that was always my way of dealing with, or maybe even not dealing with the finality of, of losing. And then this year it was definitely different in that regard. [00:45:23] Speaker A: Now it was 2016. We talk about fail forward moments a lot on here. Was 2016 a fail forward moment where it kind of helps you move forward? You know, it stunk. I thought you guys were going to win the whole thing. But you know, does that help you kind of move forward when you get, get an opportunity to maybe do it the next time? [00:45:39] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. I mean it's, you know, two one run losses, you know, when you only need one win to, to win the national championship. And in the last one time runs on third, winning runs on second. You know, I, that one has always been hard to let go of. Just because we were so, so close. And I, I love those guys. And kind of a cool story about that Friday, the day before the finals, after the crazy Wake Forest game, I was just, you know, walking around early in the morning. I didn't sleep very much in Omaha, walking around early in the morning. And one of those players texted me and just said, like, this is, this is your time. And I remember texting them back and just said, when we get this done, this will partly be for you guys, you know, but I don't have any regrets about anything because that team overachieved. We were supposed to finish 10th out of 11 in the Pac 12. And I love those guys. There's been a ton of major leaguers from that team, you know, same kind of thing. And, and we still stay in touch and super proud of those guys. So, yeah, it was cool to win it and I want them to feel like they had a part in this. [00:46:47] Speaker A: Is that your decompress? Do you get up early and kind of walk and, and decompress that way? [00:46:53] Speaker B: I needed to there just because it was, it was constant, like head down, like you're either preparing or you're playing. And we played eight games in, in 10 days and was pretty awesome. You know, I love college football. Like, I don't really have a ton of hobbies, but I do like watching college football games. So I don't know if that really is getting me away from what we're doing, but yeah, it's, that's kind of my, my go to. [00:47:16] Speaker A: You know, with being at lsu, you're obviously going to get the best of the best from an assistant standpoint and, you know, knowing that they're, you know, if they do their jobs, they're probably going to move on. I mean, how do you handle that or do you even worry about it? [00:47:27] Speaker B: Good question. I think it's been awesome. You know, I, I think I'm always been a believer in, in growth for, for people and in whatever they're doing. And, you know, I'm kind of really proud of it. Now you look at, you know, Dan Fitzgerald, head coach at Kansas, Jason Kelly, head coach at Washington West, Johnson, head coach at Georgia, and, you know, I'm sure Josh Jordan will get a job offer here really, really soon. You know, it's, it's made it a little bit tougher. Like I feel like I've lived three summers as a first year head coach because of all of it, I will tell you that. You know, but I'm really proud of those guys and that's what we're in it for. You know, when I think about, you know, Scott Sarver giving me a chance when I was, you know, 24 years old and I'm coaching third base, I'm running the offense, recruiting him, no idea what I'm doing. But without that opportunity, my career doesn't go that way. Or Rich Hill hiring me, you know, or Doug Knuth or Dave Hickey or now Scott Woodward as AD is giving me an opportunity. Like sometimes that's all somebody needs. So I'm always, if a coach of mine thinks it's a better opportunity for them, I'll always support it. And, and luckily, you know, being at a place like this, we're always going to be able to attract really high level people. [00:48:44] Speaker A: Was it Coach Land that nudged you to be an ABCA member? [00:48:48] Speaker B: For sure. Yeah. I'll never forget, I want to say hall of famer, Orlando 2002 was the first one I went to. And I still remember that, you know, Brian Shoup talking about offensive baseball, and I was like, that's what I'm doing. Like, that's what I'm doing. And literally built like our whole deal at Point Loma, like around that. Or, you know, Mike Bianco, who I compete against a lot, you know, did a really good hitting thing there, you know, countless times over and over again. You know, Mike Gillespie, you know, you know, Gary Gilmore, who beat us in the finals. There's just so many of those that have been, you know, impactful and what we've kind of infused to our programs and that convention's a special deal. [00:49:31] Speaker A: I used to take clips out of your 2016 talk and show our players at Western Illinois from the offensive side of it, just because it, for me, it was perfect. It was perfect. Any preview, any previews for your convention? [00:49:43] Speaker B: Talk? Have you thought about it? Sorry if I brought it up. No, it's, it's, that's cool. But we'll, you know, I've gained so much from that, so we'll get, get invested in it when I get a little bit of time and, and see if we can do a good job to help some coaches out there. [00:50:00] Speaker A: So, hey, are the numbers still proven out that hard contact works? I mean, that was one of the things that stuck out to me, that 2016 talk, which I love that you brought it up because that was right in the debate of put it in the air, hit it on the ground. And so it helped me a lot as a coach when I'm like, okay, this guy's one of the best that we have. And here's what the numbers are proving out. [00:50:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I really, I really do. I think the challenge nowadays is players are more talented than they've ever been, but I feel like they're coming in as least prepared for what we needed them to do as they ever have. And it's just the way that it is and it's, it's no indictment on anything. So that's why we always start our progression of teaching as all of our players know nothing, not just the incoming guys, the returning players as well. And yeah, I mean, hitting the ball hard, you know, not far, you know, on a line as opposed to in the air is something that's really, really worked for us. And, you know, I'll believe that till I'm done, done coaching that that's the way to go. [00:51:03] Speaker A: Do you feel like it's good for the older guys too? Because they need a refresher on that. [00:51:08] Speaker B: I think it's always good to have a foundation and when you think about like the best, you know, hitters in this case, that they have ability to make their own adjustments and when they go to pro baseball, like they're not getting coached like they are at a LSU or San Diego or Arizona. So you have to help them understand what adjustments are and how they make them. And they can't do that without a really solid foundation. So that's kind of our thought process is we want them to have something to go back to so they can quickly, you know, move in a different direction, adjust, turn and know what they're doing. You know, by having a good solid foundation. [00:51:45] Speaker A: You feel like synergy has been the, the way for defensive. I feel like we're playing elite defense now across the board at Division One. Do you think it's because of synergy and positioning? [00:51:55] Speaker B: I think it's more because of strikeouts. I think there's so many more strikeouts. You know, fewer plays are being made and the catcher's getting, you know, a bunch of put outs. That helps your, your fielding percentage. I think if you're, you're facing teams that are putting the ball in play, a lot of, they're going to create mistakes and errors and, you know, so just. I think it has more to do with the strikeouts. But that's a good point that you raise. You know, it's our job to put our. We always talk about putting our players in position to be successful well on defense. That's real. If you put them where they're going to hit it, the play is a lot easier than if they have to move. Yeah. [00:52:29] Speaker A: When I give my defensive talk, I always show the defensive efficiency for the teams that make it to the playoffs and mlb, it's always the team that convert the most outs put in play. You know, because I like that stat for a defense way more than I like feeling percentage. I like defensive efficiency because it shows converted outs put on balls put in play. [00:52:48] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:52:49] Speaker A: All right, what are some final thoughts before I let you go? I know you're busy and I appreciate you coming on with me. [00:52:54] Speaker B: I don't have any thoughts. Great questions. A lot of fun as always. And, you know, really looking forward to Dallas and the convention in there with everybody. [00:53:04] Speaker A: And I'm really happy for you, sir. We go way back, so I'm really happy for you. I'm proud of you. So thank you for coming on with me. Appreciate you. [00:53:10] Speaker B: All right. You got it. Thanks, Ryan. [00:53:13] Speaker A: Congrats again Coach Johnson and the LSU Tigers program. Having known Coach Johnson for as long as I have and knowing the type of coach developer person he is, I don't think this will be the last national championship. Thanks again to Jim Richardson, John Litchfield, Zach Hale, Matt west, and Antonio Walker in the ABCA office for all their help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via email rbrownleyabca.org, twitter, Instagram and TikTok oachbabca or direct message me via the MyABCA app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off for the American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks and leave it better for those behind you. [00:53:58] Speaker B: I was not for your name and [00:54:01] Speaker A: you know that way Yep Wait for another day [00:54:10] Speaker B: and the world will always [00:54:12] Speaker A: return and your life never for yearning and you know that way Wait for another [00:54:30] Speaker B: D.