Pat Doyle - 2026 ABCA/Wilson Lefty Gomez Award

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the ABCA's podcast. I'm your host Ryan Brownlee. This episode is brought to you by Rapsodo Baseball, the trusted player development technology of coaches at every level. Rapsodo has basically become the gold standard for player development in baseball. Pitchers, hitters, college programs, big leaguers, even their official technology ambassador, Shohei Ohtani. Everybody's using it. It's not just a radar gun with a fancy name. Rapsodo tracks spin rate, movement, release points, exit velo, launch angle, all the stuff that turns he looks good, and here's exactly why he's good. Coaches use technology like Pro 2.0 to build pitching profiles, hitters use it to fine tune their swing, and parents use it to justify spending a mortgage payment on travel ball. It's that good. If you're serious about development or just want to know why your curveball still gets hit 400ft, go check them out. If you're a high school program, they're offering a thousand dollars off. Just head to rapsodo.com it's like science, but for baseball people. Train smarter. Develop faster. Learn [email protected] this episode is sponsored by Netting Pros. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Netting Professionals specializes in the design, fabrication and installation of custom netting for backstops, batting cages, dugouts, BP screens, and ball carts. They also design and install digital graphic wall padding, windscreen turf, turf protectors, dugout benches, dugout cubbies and more. Netting Professionals is an official partner of the ABCA and continues to provide quality products and services to many high school, college and professional fields, facilities and stadiums throughout the country. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Contact them today at 844-620-2707 or infoettingpros.com visit them online at www.nettingpros.com or check out NettingPros on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects. Make sure to let CEO Will Miner know that the ABCA sent you. Now onto the podcast Pat Doyle, whose remarkable contributions to the game span local, national and international levels, has been named the recipient of the 2026 ABCA Wilson Lefty Gomez Award. Named after the great Lefty Gomez, this annual award is presented to an individual who has contributed significantly to the game of baseball locally, nationally and internationally. Doyle got his coaching start during his senior year of college at Fresno State, taking a medical hardship year upon graduation, Doyle coached at Lodi and Tokay high schools before taking over at San Joaquin Delta College in 23 seasons Delta had 173 C2A playoff appearances. Doyle coached internationally with MLB Envoy program and coached and managed the national teams for Ireland, Great Britain and Israel. Doyle was inducted into the ABCA hall of Fame in 2019. Let's welcome Pat Doyle to the podcast. How's your deal today? [00:03:38] Speaker B: That's great. We had, we have a small group that meets the church. It's actually, it's turned into A. About 15 years ago, our pastor said, hey, we're looking for someone that would want to handle a group of. A group that related to caregivers and care receivers, you know, and some people have been asking. And so they asked my wife and I if we wanted to kind of do this for a kind of a short term thing. And 15 years later, we're still doing it. [00:04:02] Speaker A: Love it. [00:04:03] Speaker B: That's great. So we have like, we had the. We had like 26, 28 people there today, which normally. Yeah, it keeps growing. Of course, grief is an issue where it's. That unfortunately, he's growing also on that side. [00:04:15] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. Well, that's great. You guys do it. [00:04:18] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been a real, real blessing for us. [00:04:20] Speaker A: Here's Pat Doyle, 2026 ABC Wilson Lefty Gomez winner, 2019 ABC hall of Fame inductee, but chair of our Lefty Gomez committee as well. But Delta head coach for 23. Done a lot for amateur, but also international baseball as well. But thanks for jumping on with me, Pat. [00:04:39] Speaker B: It's a great job. I love it. Thank you. Ryan. [00:04:41] Speaker A: I mean, what does this mean to you, winning the Lefty Gomez Award when you are the, the head of the committee? Also, what's this mean to you? Because, I mean, you're on the forefront of picking these winners every year. [00:04:52] Speaker B: Well, it was a little, kind of, not surreal, but kind of, you know, when I was nominated as a committee chair, you kind of go, okay, what does that mean? So I needed to make sure. And check it out with the powers that be to make sure that's even legal to do, you know, and so it was. And, and I was selected by the committee. I went, I was, I recused myself from, from all the, all that stuff anyway just so that I wouldn't, you know, have any, any undue influence you might say, or have someone look at you and go, oh, chairman of the committee. Oh, well, that's interesting. And so, so it worked out. So I decided I am. I look at it this way, is that, you know, it's sometimes trite to say this, but no one gets there alone. Okay. No matter where you Go. No matter what award you get, no matter what accolades are thrown your way, that's just a very small part of the story. And, and so I look at all the people that I've been involved with for over the years that have just been phenomenal people that many of them as deserving or more deserving as my, for myself, for this award, who have given themselves to, excuse me, all three aspects of what the Lefty Gomez is all, I guess Lefty Gomez award is all about, is basically about, you know, your local, your national and your international impact on baseball. And I've been. Been fortunate to have been involved in all three of those to a fairly high level and be able to work with tremendous people that have certainly made me look good throughout the years. And it's been a tremendous testimony to how when you're like minded and you have a passion for the game and you want to grow the game and try to make it as better in any little way you can, that there are so many people that are right beside you, in front of you and behind you, surrounding you. And that's, that's an important concept because without that, it's meaningless. [00:06:42] Speaker A: So who got you involved? The committee. [00:06:45] Speaker B: With the committee. Let's see, I was a, I was president of the California Community College Baseball Coaches association for a number of years. And my, the person who went after me at that was on the committee and when his term was up, he put my name in to Bob Whelan, who was. No, actually it was Jerry Kindle, I guess the first year. So. And I'd known Jerry for a long time and he interviewed me and asked me if I'd be interested in this type of thing. And so that was, Golly, that was 12 years ago or so. Yeah, so it's, it's been, it's probably one of the, the most meaningful committees I've ever been on. Because you're not only there do you have wonderful people that are really in it for the right reasons and want to be on that committee because they have a real passion for, you know, looking at people who have helped grow the game. But more importantly, the whole concept of it is just, is just phenomenal as far as how you, you don't. To be the winningest coach in the world. You don't have to be this or anybody. You have to be someone who participates and someone who gets their feet wet and dirty. It gets a little dirty on occasion and does a lot of, a lot of factors. So that kind of got me really interested in looking into the Committee and wondering how that would all shake out. And you know we've been just. We're always getting phenomenal nominees for the committee from the. To the committee for the. For the award. So it's kind of a win win. It's kind of a. It's kind of neat just to see the, the. Not that there's any bad side of anything but this is the way upside of the game and of the people who are committed to it. [00:08:20] Speaker A: But also challenging too because it's hard to find candidates that maybe check all those boxes correctly. Correct. [00:08:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it is. I think that it's you know getting the balance of it is, is important and you know, the balance has gone. You know I've seen the shift a little bit from kind of D1 coaches who are really involved in the, in C2A national level and some local with not much international experience. And now you're seeing more. It seemingly shifted a little bit more to more the international experience being one of the major parts of the process. They all have to be equal in some way shape or form. But you're seeing more international involvement now and I think that speaks a lot for how the baseball. Baseball has grown throughout the world. [00:09:10] Speaker A: Is there anything in the industry that you didn't get to do that, that you wanted to do? [00:09:16] Speaker B: Wow, good question. Oh well, play in the big leagues one but that's you know, for a five, ten and a half, five foot ten and a half inch right handed pitcher who I don't even know what. They didn't have read any music radar guns when I was start pigeon. So I don't know, I'll say I'm 80 years old so I was doing 80 miles an hour. I don't know what the heck. But anyway it's, that's one area but fun to play in that. But I've lived fortunately through a lot of my players vicariously in that situation. Oh boy. I know I, I think honestly I would probably want to go back and if I was there anything I wanted to revisit, I'd want to revisit the aspect of two areas. One would be the aspect of coaching young kids. You know, I'm talking, you know, anywhere between 8 and 12, 13 years of age where you have a real, A real opportunity to make an impact on them. Which I was able to do that with my, with, with my son and with my grandson and my granddaughter who I all three, I coach all three of those young people in, in little league baseball and in senior little leagues. So that was A thing where I think if I was going to make, say, an impact, that was probably the place that I'd want to go back and do it. And that was. It's fun. And I, you know, it's amazing how you, you morph into the, into the, the aspect of coaching, you know, and how you hopefully how you grow into the aspect of coaching. And so, you know, I found that I would probably be. I feel I'm a much better coach now for that age group than probably maybe some other ones in my previous years because I'm better prepared on the side of the game. I've always been pretty good at X's and O's and the aspect of there, but really of, of understanding what it's like to deal with the opportunity to impact character and values and belief systems with young people, which will hopefully create a really solid foundation. So probably I'd go back to that. And then the other area I really enjoyed, as I mentioned, was being able to take the game to other countries and to watch people who are just learning the game grow exponentially when you get a chance to get some coaching and experience. So. [00:11:32] Speaker A: And you got to play for your dad, correct? [00:11:35] Speaker B: Yes, I did. My, my dad probably when I, when I look back on it, probably the reason why I'm sitting in front of you today is because of him. Okay. And he had three other guys that were just tremendous there. I call them the pillars, the pillars of my life because my dad was six, four and a half. Again, Oli Olson was a big Swede at about six three and a young. Another. Tom Aikens was the other. It's a real seminal person who was a big guy also. And not only were they big in stature, but they were big in heart and big in effort and big in wanting to do the right thing. And those, they got me started and you know, so I've been blessed. Fact, Tom's son Spencer and I still are friends and he lives in, in Texas and so in fact, when I came to the hall of Fame, he's from the Dallas area, so he was able to be there and be able to remember the impact that his dad and my dad on, on us. And so yeah, so my, I played for him. My dad throws youth baseball and then also in American Legion baseball. He coached American Legion up at what is now the home of UCLA Bruins, the Sawtel Veterans home. That back then it was a baseball field that was Legion baseball and semi pro baseball named Peplee ran a Pirates group there. And all fall, that fall, all sorts of Big leagues and guys would come back and, and play and work out and stuff like that. So that the kind of like it's morphed now into a beautiful college stadium. So I go way back in the day, before UCLA was even a, a thought at that place. So, and so, yeah, he was, my dad was a really used in the depression era, so he had a football scholarship to Loyola University in Southern California that he couldn't take because he had to work, go to work. And so, and he ended up working the rest of his life. So it was one of those things where it was a missed opportunity because of things that were out of his control, but he was able to take that passion he had for it and really inoculate me with it, you might say, in some way, shape or form, and to give me some great opportunities because he was a, he was, he was a fun guy, a great guy. He died way too young of lung cancer. So that's a, that's another story. But that was a, it was a huge loss. [00:13:50] Speaker A: What about you watching him coach kids or actually playing for him inspired you to get into coaching then? [00:13:57] Speaker B: Well, that's a good question. I'd say first of all, you know, just his, his ability to show up. I mean, you know, if there was a practice, he was there, he was there early. When there was a game, he was there, he was there. He was always prepared to do something, to have things, you know, in a, in a, in an organized fashion. He did a good job of, of treating people the same. He was, he was a, he was real good with that, with every we. I grew up in the West LA area, which there was a, you know, there was a, a larger Hispanic community. There was, you know, just a good racial mix of, of, of players. And he handled all those guys with really great, you know, I'd say, you know, sensitivity and understand the fact that treated them like they were treating like people first and player second. And that really, that's one thing that's resonated with me that through my whole career is that, you know, you have to look at your, the, the, your constituents, you might call them as, as, as people because that's who they really are and that's where they're going to be for the rest of their life and what we can get out of them, a player is just a bonus. [00:15:06] Speaker A: And then was high school the first stop for you? [00:15:12] Speaker B: Well, the high school is where I played at a high school called University High School in West la. And it was. So are you talking about coaching or Coaching? Oh, coaching. No, actually not. My first coaching was actually done at Fresno State where kind of an interesting. My junior year, I was 7 and oh, and still have the second lowest career ERA or seasonal ERA of anyone pitching at Fresno State ever. So I've got that this thing stuck way back in the recesses of some record book. I might be the only one that remembers it, but that's a, that's kind of a fun, fun thing for me. And so I had real great hopes for my senior year I was going to go out. I went up and played up in Canada, played in Edmonton in the Western Canada Baseball League, played with some really, really good players. Gail Hopkins, who ended up catching for the White Sox and playing in the big leagues and one of the Keough brothers, or just a really good league. And so. And then had a good summer, came back, had a good fall, came back at my first game, came in and pitched two innings where he split games up against UCLA actually. And then next week I got set, I got my, stepped on, I got my Achilles tendon shredded covering first base and a, a play that had reached back for a ball was behind me. And next thing, another runner landed on me. And that was, that was my, that was my season. That was, that was my senior year. At that time, the NC2A had differing viewpoints. So I guess as far as eligibility goes, my baseball coach, who I love dearly and the athletic director did not get along. And so I, I did not get a year back. I should have, but I didn't, I didn't get a medical year. So I ended up going, I went after getting rid of my cast from coming back to kind of a recovery thing. I, I coached with Pete Biden, who is a, he's an ABC hall of Famer also for a year at Fresno State. And probably the most nervous moment of my baseball career occurred and we qualified for the NCAA regionals at Bovard Field and at usc. And the head coaches in that regional were Pete Biden, Rod Dado, Washington State, Bobo Brayton and John Scalinas. Those are the four, those are the four coaches. And I'm coaching third base for Fresno State. And you couldn't have blown a BB up my rear end with how it started. Oh, you know, here I was in the, in the, surrounded by, you know, the all time greats and I'm going, whoa. You know, so anyway, we survived and had a couple of. We didn't win it, but we were very competitive. So that was probably my most nerve wracking that I can Recall appearance on any baseball field and I was on the other side of the white line doing that. So it was kind of interesting. [00:17:43] Speaker A: How'd you get from LA to Fresno? How'd they recruit you? [00:17:47] Speaker B: Well, when I was in Pony League and Colt League we had a, a coach, Mace hall. He played at, at Sac State and he happened to know Pete Biden. And I had also had another person from Fresno State, another player, I can't remember his name but it said, you know, hey, this would be a good place for you. So I actually called Pete and he, we, we would travel up north from LA to Antioch to visit family and so we'd go through Fresno. So I call him, said it would be okay for me to, to meet you or we could have a meeting about. You know, obviously it was when I was a, I think a junior or senior in high school and, and so we went, we met and he talked and he said, hey, he says, you know, love to have you. He had this real gruff voice, you know, God dang loud and all this kind of stuff. He's one of these kind of guys. And, and so I ended up probably not being the, the, the academician I should have been as far as in high school, you know. And so I said I would. So I went to a community college and from there I got a baseball scholarship. So I kept in contact with Pete and got recruited and that's how that thing worked out. And that was probably the best decision I've ever made in my life because it was, it's, it worked out perfectly for me in relationship to learning the game. I was Pete's TA and his baseball 30 classes and they, those were, they were epic and they were every, every PE major had to take it and everybody could handle the football, the basketball, but the baseball. Pete was just, he was, he was difficult. I mean he was really a hard nosed guy. In fact I had a cast on at that time when I, I was his TA after I had my Achilles tendon. So I had a cast from my, my hip to my toe. And so I, they, he had to take a fungo test and pass the Fungo test to pass the class. And so I couldn't do it because I had a cast on. So I get my grades from Pete and I got a B in the class. I said, Pete, what happened? I said, God dang it. I said, you didn't take the Funko test, I can't give you an A. So that's the kind of, you know, that was kind of the repartee with him, but he was very structured and a man of his words. He had his standards. So even though I had a cast, I was sorry, I couldn't. No, you can't take the Fungo test. You can't get an A. So those are the kind of things you learn and you kind of carry on eventually. I think those are ones that kind of spike your. Your memory of. Of how not only were you coached, but how you probably are going to be coaching other people, too, your other players. So it was. There was a. It was great because the fundamental sound aspect of Pete was just the most fundamentally sound guy I've ever been around. [00:20:29] Speaker A: Then you took that to coach in high school with you. [00:20:31] Speaker B: Right. So I started off at Lodi High School as a freshman football and freshman baseball coach. And one of the athletic director from Lodi High at that time called Pete, and he said, you know, I said, I understand that you run a good program. Do you have any young players or anybody looking for a coaching job? So Pete got a hold of me, and I got a hold of Lodi. And it was roughly at that time when Creedence Clear Water Revival had their song out stuck in Lodi again. So I said, it must be prophecy. It's got to be it. That's why it's got to go. [00:21:02] Speaker A: How similar was how things were done at Fresno to how you did things at Lodi? [00:21:08] Speaker B: Well, I basically, you know, took a lot of. A lot of the same stuff out of his theory classes and different things that he did that I felt not only worked when I was there, but I got to work for high school. So we were very fundamentally oriented. Okay. You know, do things the right way. There is a certain way to take infield or certain way to do this, certain way to do that. That all related to how to play the game. Not just a regimented A to B to C type thing, but a reason to go to each place and the reason to. To create particular aspects of your program that are going to help translate into a better player and hopefully more wins. So, you know, it was pretty much a direct translation, I would say. [00:21:52] Speaker A: How long were you at Lodi? [00:21:55] Speaker B: I was at Lodi for three years. I went from freshman to two years of sophomore baseball. And then another high school opened up in Lodi called Tokay High School, and I. I started the baseball program there, and then we. I was there for three years. We won two championships, and I got the next thing. The next step was to Delta College from there. [00:22:18] Speaker A: So what was the itch to go to junior College instead of high school. [00:22:22] Speaker B: Oh, probably ill conceived ego. I don't know. You know, you see, you want to go to the next level and kind of want to try to keep applying your trade at a higher level, thinking that's the way to go when you find out eventually it really isn't, but, you know, it's. So it was, it was a situation where, you know, I built up a pretty good reputation in the community. I was able to, you know, to, to take my show, so to speak, my game and approach to a community college. And it translated pretty much in the same fashion. I mean, it was. There's always differing issues and challenges and nuances and requirements and things that go on, but, you know, the game doesn't change that much. And so I tried to keep the same fundamentally sound approach at community college. And then you start playing guys like Jerry Weinstein and, and other people. And Jerry and I, we go back to, we played against each other Pony League. We grew up in the same area of la, so we've been, we've been knowing of each other and competing against each other since we were 12 or 13 years of age. So, so, so you start, you start, you start expanding your game. You start. Okay, you know what works. What's. Yeah, if you stay, if you, if you basically stay stuck on what you did five years ago, it's not going to work well for you. You've got to kind of bend with the game, pick things up. I mean, I'm not sure when the last official, last official or the last new thing was ever developed in baseball. You always steal from somebody else or you see what they do and you like that and fits your program and you do it and you know, it's a conglomeration of, of a lot of influences to kind of keep you moving forward. You know, you've got to go to clinics, you got to go to, you know, to talk to other coaches, find out different ways to say the same thing and move forward that way. And there's, you know, the nuances of the game, the little things here, trying to get a little edge here or there are always things that you're looking for. And so the more you're exposed to the guys that are good at that, the better you get at it too. Otherwise you don't survive, basically. [00:24:28] Speaker A: Did you change your mind much on many things over the years from the beginning to the end when you were coaching? [00:24:38] Speaker B: Probably. Well, a couple of things. I think that I would, I would say that you kind of morph into, or at least I Did you know, you realize eventually you get more. Not respect, you get better results probably from learning how to deal with individuals at a better level instead of saying, this is the only one way to do it. And you're, you know, instead of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, you start figuring out better ways to handle that. How do you, how do you deal with the end. You know, the, you know, you take a look at any picture, any hitter right now, everyone's got a different style, a different, A different way to get to where they need to get to, to be successful. And I think that for me, learning that and starting to practice, that was a huge point of me giving my players a better opportunity to get better themselves. Because you gave. You start working within their strengths and their framework, and from there they discover the ways they've got to kind of refine things to be able to get. Be the best version of themselves, no matter whether they're a pitcher, hitter, whatever. So it became a thing of trying to individualize as much as you can to create the fundamentals that you know that are successful and how. And creating the pathway for each guy to get there. Because that's. It's, it's not the, it's. It's not the cookie cutter approach. You've got to, you've got to individualize as much as you can. That probably, you know, that. That is something that I really gravitated more, more, more and more to and became much more successful dealing with individuals that way, I think, too. [00:26:10] Speaker A: Yeah, but with your track record, you May. You had 17 playoff appearances in 23 years, which is really hard to do in California. [00:26:18] Speaker B: California community college baseball is a pretty competitive marketplace, no doubt about it. [00:26:23] Speaker A: I've seen, I mean, I've seen that up close. I mean. [00:26:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:26:28] Speaker A: How do you feel like the 3C 2A has changed over the years, or has it? [00:26:33] Speaker B: Well, yes, it has. It's. It's not. Not all for the best. One, one being, you know, one of the advantages that community colleges in California had for years is you could play all fall and play as many games as you want. And, you know, whether you, you couldn't be sponsored by the school, so you're John's Bar and Grill or Poki's Pizza or whatever else it might be, but you got the opportunity to give kids to really develop. And that, I think, was it what it was. In the halcyon days of California community college baseball, there's some really talented players. I mean, there were a lot of. You could. There's a list of big leaguers that are just phenomenal. And a lot of those were. Are there because they are able to play, play, play and keep playing and, and develop their, their more refined approach to the game. And then it starts. And then you start looking at liability. You start looking at things that were. Well, there's. We can get into that. That's probably not a thing to talk about on this one, but. Yeah, so now they are. California community colleges are limited to 12 contests in the fall. Okay. So, I mean, you go from kind of un. A number of whatever you can afford through your fundraising or through your whatever, however you want to approach it, your facilities and so on and so forth, down to the fact that you've really reduced that. And I think that reduces the opportunity for kids to grow. And you know, just a short aside, you know, they're basically about five reasons why a young player should go to a community college or they do go to a community college. You know, one is they don't have the grades. Number two, they don't have the, the physical maturity. They don't have the.3 is they don't have the, the emotional maturity. They don't have. They, they are late bloomers or late developers or they're just. Financially, there's just. There's no other place to go. So, you know, when you look at that, that mean that covers a pretty bright swath, broad swath of. Of the way kids are all that. All activities that kids have this day and age. So the more you can manage that, that you, you again develop the, the aspect of the people growing and maturing and both physically and emotionally finding out who wants to play. You find out very quickly who wants to play and who doesn't because there's a lot of a time commitment. So that is kind of morphed into a slightly abridged, you know, amount of games. The coaching is still as good. The, the players. There's, you know, with the landscape out there now of Nils and transfer portals and stuff like this, it's going to be interesting to see, to see how the community college baseball experience develops. I think it's got a chance to actually really blossom again into a. Even a bigger positive than it is now. [00:29:32] Speaker A: So when did you move into then president of the association? [00:29:37] Speaker B: I would have been about 19, 1989. I'm thinking roughly in that. [00:29:42] Speaker A: When did you step away from Delta? [00:29:44] Speaker B: I stepped away from Delta baseball in 2000, 1999. 2000. And so I stayed on. I taught there full time. Full time. Professor. But The. Well, one of the reasons I'm wearing a hat is I've got stitches underneath here from a skin cancer. I've got a wonky ear on this. I mean, so I had my doctors basically said, you know what? This is you. You got to get out of this. You can't do this if you're going to, you know, or otherwise. I already bought the guy a portion of Tesla. What do you want me to buy you now? You know, so. So say. So it was a health situation and. And then I still, I still stayed on and, you know, did a lot of work on the periphery of it, but. And that's when I was in. Very deeply involved with the Major League Baseball International also. So I was doing a lot of work on. On getting coast coaching rosters together to be sent all over the world. And also myself going and. And doing a lot of work in the international area at that time. So in a way it was, you know, I guess one of those life is timing type situations. And so the health situation in the sun area, it was basically kind of like the thing that pushed me into getting out of coaching and moving into a different level or different type of coaching. [00:31:08] Speaker A: Yeah. But also staying in the baseball industry. And I think that's the great thing about the baseball industry is there's a lot of different avenues to stay in the industry. Even if you maybe aren't doing as much on field or with your own program. There's a lot of ways to stay active in the baseball industry. [00:31:23] Speaker B: Oh, no doubt about it. I mean, there's a tremendous amount of opportunity that you can find your niche, so to speak. And if you. For instance. Yeah. One of the things I've really honed in on is I kind of. You mentioned earlier about kind of how did things change through. Well, you know, I really got involved in the mental game, you know, and I. Ken Raviza was a friend of mine and he was one of my, you know, a mentor and a real strong force and moving into the. Into the mental game with intention rather than just talking about it. And in fact, I still teach a psychology sports class to this day at Delta College, so. And it's one of those things where, you know, you find out very quickly, no matter if you're Yogi Bear and you think baseball is 90 physical and 10 mental or 5% physical, 9, whatever else you want to call it, it's still the mental always out rules the physical. It's just what controls it. And so I've really found that to be a very fascinating and Very helpful and very important field for, especially for getting young players to, to understand how to, to develop into a, a person that's going to be able to be coachable to, to overcoming, you know, to overcome fear, to deal with anxiety, to create plans and organizational situations both physically and, and emotionally, to be able to get your routines down to the point where it's going to give you the best chance to succeed. And, and I'm really a real strong proponent of that. [00:32:45] Speaker A: How's your curriculum changed for that class, Psychology of Sport? [00:32:50] Speaker B: It's gotten more, a lot more information. I mean, it used to be when I was, I can remember first meeting Ken and you know, what he was doing with the, with the Angels and then with the, with the Cubs and some other things. And, and it was, it was kind of like sometimes you had to kind of tiptoe through the tulips. You know, there was that stigma about, oh, you know, you've seen a shrink with those, what the hell is this guy doing here? You know, this type of stuff. And it's gotten to the point now where it's, it's. It's really become a, a part of the game you don't even blink at anymore. The Andy McKay who's a. Who coaches Sac City. And so I coached against him a lot and we were good friends when he started as the mental performance person, but the Rockies, he said, you know, I know this guy says his, his primary look at the job was, view of the job was this. He said, I'm probably going to really be able to get a lot of these young kids to really get going, really prepare, and the big leaguers are probably going to be a little bit standoffish. And he found out it was the exact opposite. He said the big leaguers loved it because that's what kept them in the game. Those are the things they understood, the finality and the. And the fine tuning of what they had to do to stay there and to grow there. And so he said it was, it was a really interesting transformation for him to see that the big leaguers be so receptive and the young guys think they already knew it all. So yeah, it was kind of an. That was obviously a generalization, but that kind of situation. [00:34:10] Speaker A: You have a textbook for that class? [00:34:13] Speaker B: Yes, I do. So It's a gym. Dr. Jim Afromo. It's. Oh, yeah, book. It's. You asked me a question. [00:34:25] Speaker A: I got, I got one of his. I gotta look it up. [00:34:28] Speaker B: Okay. I've got mine in my backpack to take it with me on A It's. [00:34:33] Speaker A: Oh, it's Champion's Mind is the one we used to. [00:34:37] Speaker B: That is by the best book I've ever had. [00:34:39] Speaker A: It is. We did a team. Let me close my door here. But we did it. That was one of our, one of our team books for the year was Champion. Yeah. [00:34:48] Speaker B: The thing about it is it's great because. Plays because at my sports psychology classes it's called Psychology of Sport and Fitness. So we'll get a lot of students who want to get into kinesiology or into, you know, being a fitness instructor type thing where there's a lot of psychology involved there. And so it really covers that basis. You don't have to be an active athlete in college or even a professionally to really learn and get a lot out of that book. I think it's, it's one of the most user friendly books I've ever read. That and another one I'm reading. I've read the Confident Mind by Nate Zinsservice. [00:35:29] Speaker A: But I'm gonna put in my notes. [00:35:31] Speaker B: That is, that is one of the. It's. Wow. It's, it's. It shows you how to break down the aspect of confidence, how to build it. It's just really a tremendous book. I would highly recommend it. [00:35:41] Speaker A: How do you build confidence? [00:35:44] Speaker B: Through experience for one thing. But experience that relates to positive things you've done in the past that you've looked at. You say I can do this. Okay, I've done this before. I build a. It's kind of like building a mental bank account. Okay. You start off if you can relate to your, your victories in the past. I do a thing with my class, we call it. You make your top 10 list. What are the top 10 things you've done that you're proud of or feel really good about that all relate to the past and once you look at those situations again, how can those then affect the present? And how can your present situation work into creating, you know, the, the, the, the foundational part of being. Having a confident mind. Now confidence is a little bit of a. Not a ping pong ball in a windstorm, but it moves around a lot. And we, and it moves around a lot according to how what we're experiencing, if we're, if our mindset and our thought processes is geared towards what I can't do or what screw how I screw it up or what mistakes I made, those are the times that you find that your confidence is going to wane and, and there's going to be times. Confidence is not a Feeling, it's an action. I mean, there's, I can feel confident, but do I act confident? Do I, do I perform confidently? Do I take it to the degree where it's going to be practical for me in what I'm doing? So it's, you're, you're ascertaining that you are, have a talent at something or a knowledge of something and you then can do it unconsciously. Okay. In other words, you've got to get, you got to get your thought process out of some things because that's if you're familiar with how, you know, how you develop a skill, you know, you get to the, the highest level you want to get to is to be that unconsciously competent performer where you don't think about it, you just do it. And this, this, these are all ways, I guess, and methods and strategies and things to get you to that level. And it's, it's, it's a pretty exciting book. He's the, he is the mental performance director at West Point. He's been that way. He's been done that job for 30 years. And plus he's done all sorts of other related stuff. But. So he's worked with a lot of professional athletes, college collegiate athletes, all sorts of different. But he's, you know, he's, he's, he's walking the walk and doing the talk. He's really, he's very, very good at what he does. And it's all research related, so. [00:38:03] Speaker A: And also understanding that you've probably performed at times when you didn't feel confident, that's very true. [00:38:09] Speaker B: Because, you know, we can change our feelings. You know, it's, it's the aspect of the mindset and how we, you know, how we create the, the like you say that the mental bank account is kind of. We have things to rely on. We have, we've been there before. We have strategies or ways we can, we can deal with that. And it's again, we're human. You know, there's not any sport that I've ever played or heard about. This is a game of perfect, okay? And we at fair, okay? If we're not perfect, then how good can we be? What's the best version of ourself and how are we going to deal with that? [00:38:44] Speaker A: This comes up a lot. Is The California. Is 3C 2A ever going to get to go to Grand Junction? Will that ever happen? [00:38:53] Speaker B: Not in my lifetime. Of course I'm old enough to know my lifetime is probably not that long. But you know, the point is there's we keep wanting it to happen, but I think if it does happen, the first step would be the NJC2A champion and the California champion playing the series. I don't think, I don't think it'll ever be California team being in the region 7 or whatever else it might be. That was because the. Fortunately the bureaucracies of both. Of both areas are not going to allow that to happen. [00:39:23] Speaker A: So I would love to see a series though. [00:39:26] Speaker B: I would too. [00:39:26] Speaker A: We've, we've talked about series, we try. [00:39:29] Speaker B: To work some sponsorship, we try to get, you know, the, a way to do that and it keeps coming up. It's. It's. We're gonna have to get some, get some big bucks to get it done. [00:39:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I've thought I get Pollyanna on things like even trying to get the all America teams that we put together. Can we get them together or do you get the. The Division 3, Division 2, Division 1 juco winners with the California for a four team tournament? Like I think there's some intriguing avenues you could maybe go with that. But then you got like there's just a lot. I get Pollyannish on that. I get pie in the sky thoughts on things or I think it just would be neat for the baseball community as a whole, but just, just different things in that way. [00:40:12] Speaker B: Well, I think it's, you know, I think that, that one day that possibly could happen because you know what you're seeing as you're seeing if somebody thinks it can make him money that wants to sponsor it, then it'll probably happen. I mean I hate to be that, you know, cynical about it, but that's the only way it's going to happen. And so this day and age, it wouldn't, wouldn't surprise me if something like that does occur. You know, some big sporting goods company or somebody is going to say hey, we can, we can make money on this. Let's get this done. [00:40:43] Speaker A: So we'll see your first international coaching experiences with that. Was that with Ireland, Great Britain or Israel? [00:40:51] Speaker B: Actually it was in France. [00:40:55] Speaker A: Swinging this. [00:40:56] Speaker B: No, you want four now you stay in the game. So my first one was 19. Well actually I take that back. My first one is really in 1990. We took a California community college all star team, so to speak to Taiwan to play in the. The dinner was. I forget what the. It was a called a European or. No, it was called a World cup championship type thing or something. So we played national teams from Taiwan. There was one from Japan, there was the Philippines, there was Russia that was actually was the USSR at that time. In fact, I was able to exchange and get one of the USSR jerseys which I still probably carry around or not carry, but have. It's got this hammer and sickle down the sleeve and stuff like that. Pretty cool. So that was my first one and we did well there. We ended up finishing and then we got in the medal round because everybody's looking at California community. They were kind of giving us the stank eye for a while. But we played well and we had a couple big leaguers on that team that. So there were potential big leaguers that played well. And so we held our own then. My first envoy MLB I experience was in 1993 in France. So I had the tough duty of spending eight weeks in Paris, around Paris doing baseball stuff, living at their Olympic center and that type of stuff and doing that. I was there with another coach named Jim Reach. So we did a lot of stuff, did a lot of things together in France. And then the previous year, two years I'd coached or the previous year I'd coached the USA team that was the college team that was going to. We played Nicaragua and a bunch of scenes and then went to Japan. I was an assistant coach there, so I didn't get to travel with them to Japan. But I did do all the coaching. But it was with Chuck Anderson and Ed Sheff and Bob Todd and golly, two. Two of those guys aren't with us anymore. That's tough. And so. But. And then, then 96 was the. Was my first. That was. That was the Great Britain and then Ireland situation there. And that was where it all got started. And so coached in Brighton down in the. The coast of Great Britain and coached a team down there that and worked with the area people in that area high schools and elementary schools teaching the game of baseball. You know, walking out with one coach and six. Three dozen baseballs and 70 kids doing kids play the game. Okay, how do we do, how do you introduce it? What do we do? So that was. That's how that started. And then the, the. The coaching the Irish national team was at the end of that year of that season. And that was being a John Patrick Doyle. I mean it's like dying and going to. Going to Cork, Hey Shore and Begora. You know how that goes. And so that was phenomenal. And then. And after that it kind of worked into doing things with Jim Lefever. Wasn't. Was kind of the MLB guy that would kind of do things around Europe at that time. So I became he And I started running baseball festivals in different cities, some in Great Britain and Germany. And then it just all kind of more from there. I ended up getting offered the job to, to be the coordinator of the Envoy program when, after Bill Arcy left that position. Because Bill was the godfather of baseball. He's, he's the best. So I was, he was the one that hired me first. And then he's, he's just, he was just a phenomenal guy. If he's not, if he's not approach approaching sainthood, he should, you know, he was, that, he was that good a guy. And so the rest kind of worked into being the coordinator for the, for the Envoy coach program and meeting tremendous amounts of great people, hiring a lot of great coaches to work for us. There was just a, a lot of us are still, you know, good friends today and still do a lot of international baseball stuff. So I mean it's, it was a, it was a, a great opportunity to be surrounded by wonderful people that really, you know, lifted everybody up and really got people going in the right direction. [00:45:09] Speaker A: How were you chosen for Team Israel then? [00:45:12] Speaker B: Well, when I was, when I was doing my MLB stuff, I did clinics in Israel and so and got to know, you know, quite a few of the people involved in the federation and stuff like that. And so in 2011 they needed a national team coach to play it. It was, it was, it was a European qualifying tournament. It was in Israel. And so they asked me to be the head coach to that. So that's why I did that. And that's where I, I met some, some really interesting guys. One Alone Leishman, who is, was raised on a kibbutz in Israel. I don't know if you know of alone, but he, anyway he is now the assistant pitching coach and pitching coordinator for the Miami Marlins. So he came from, from a cabootz to South Beach. Man, that's a pretty good trip. And he was with, he was with the Reds before that. So anyway, that, those are the kind of relationships you meet and kind of people. You really are fortunate. I got him over to California to play for Scott Pickler at Cyprus and then he went to UC and so on forth and his rest, the rest of his, his career is pretty special. So that connection run did another clinic for them in Israel, like getting guys over to play. I got four or five other kids over to help to play in college baseball over here. And then when, when Jerry was named the, the manager for the World baseball classic in 2000, it was a 2017 classic. He asked Me if I wanted to be his bench coach. And so I said, yeah, are you kidding? Hell yes. So, and then Tom Gambo, I don't know if you know, Tom, Tom is a long time professional coach and scout and this type of thing. So he and I were on that staff and then it was, it was a great opportunity. That was one of them. That was one of the coolest things ever. I mean, when you're, you know, coaching the, the little Israeli team, which mainly was Israeli, it was Jewish Americans. But I mean, it was a team that surprised the heck out of everybody. We went from, we went from the, from the outhouse to the penthouse real quickly. And so, you know, because we played very well and you know, got to coach against Japan and in the Tokyo Dome with, you know, 55,000 people and watching the different culture of how baseball is played in Korea and in Japan was just an amazing experience. [00:47:38] Speaker A: What does travel in the world change about your worldview? [00:47:43] Speaker B: Number one, without a doubt, the thing that I learned, probably the biggest lesson I learned was the fact that there are great people everywhere in the world. There are tremendously hardworking, tremendously dedicated, tremendously cooperative and, and have a great work ethic and are just good, good people. They, they do, they do the right thing. And there's a vast, the vast, vast majority of people I met were that way. And that me, that, what that meant to me was, you know what, it doesn't matter what country you're from, doesn't matter if you speak with an, with an accent or you speak with a, or maybe you don't even speak English. It's, it's, it's the, it's the, the people that, and the things they do, the act, their actions and their activities and their character that really stand out. And I tell you, I've been fortunate to be exposed to 99.9 of the people I met were that way. [00:48:36] Speaker A: Was Paris, your favorite city? [00:48:39] Speaker B: Paris. One of them, you know, I tell you, one of the things I did enough traveling that, that there was, you know, it's hard to say which my favorite city was probably Cape Town, South Africa comes close to also. That was one of the most beautiful places I've been. So, I mean, it's so many places that are just tremendous places to visit and then to, you know, to soak in the culture. That's the other thing you find out, you know, that the roots in European history are so deep and we're still kind of into the, you know, we've broken the surface. We're down a Little bit. But you know, we don't have nearly the deep roots of culture and, and history as other countries. We're working on it. But it really makes you appreciate, you know, what the cycle of life has been like and for so many different countries in so many different ways and how they've developed their own uniqueness from their cultural mores and folkways to just the way they greet people, the way they talk, the way they do things, little customs. Like here's, here's an interesting factoid. If you go to Bulgaria, which I don't know if you ever will, but if you have a bottle of wine, never pour it backhanded into somebody's glass. That's the supreme, you know, insult. So never pour a bottle of wine backhanded in Bulgaria and you'll be okay. [00:49:58] Speaker A: And that's probably the hardest thing for Americans that haven't traveled internationally and I have not. But how, how long those countries have been around so that, you know, some of their beliefs and their worldview is going to be much different than ours at times because they've been around a lot longer. [00:50:17] Speaker B: Agreed. And I think that, you know, again, you know, the whole socio political machine that goes around everywhere you want to go is, is different in different places. But you know, it, you do find out that there's reasons why people think the way they do. You don't always have to agree with them, but I mean there's, there's, there's a pretty solid reason why they, why that's the case. And so you have to learn to respect, you know, other people's viewpoints and realize the fact that, you know, you and I could look at the same thing and we, you and I will have a different viewpoint of what we see. Okay, well, it's going to say the same thing is going to happen when we're dealing with people on other issues. So you've got to have some form of an understanding of the fact that there are differences, but there's more similarities than there are differences. [00:51:01] Speaker A: Do you have a fail forward moment? Do you have something you thought was going to set you back but looking back now, it helped you move forward? [00:51:08] Speaker B: Oh yeah. I'd say, let me think here. Well, one health wise, when I was back in 2005, I had a six way bypass. I thought I was feeling good and everything was fine. And you know, I was going off to do a thing and my assignments in Europe and I'd taken a stress test for just a part of a physical. And so my doctor calls me up, he Says, hey, this stress test wasn't real good. He said, you know, you know, I think we need to take a look at some, you know, some things here. And I said, well, you know, I'm leaving like in three days to go to spend six, six weeks and, or whatever it was in, in different countries. And he goes, really? I said, yeah. I said, well, I said now. He said, what are you going to do over there? What kind of physicality, what kind of physical work you're going to do? And I said, well, I'll probably throw a little batting practice maybe and, and you know, it's just travel. And he says, okay. Says, I shouldn't let you go, but I'm going to give you some, some, you know, some statin drugs to take with you to kind of keep that, that in order. And as soon as you get back, we need to talk. And so I got back, we talked and I was in, in the hospital getting my open heart surgery done. And again, no symptoms. You know, it was crazy. And in my fact, when they did the angiogram, my wife and daughter were there and they, the doctor came out and said about, you know, you got a six way bypass. And my wife says, no, you got the wrong cd. This, this, this, that's, this is, he doesn't, that doesn't happen to him, you know, so it was kind of, kind. [00:52:38] Speaker A: Of family history with, with that family history. [00:52:43] Speaker B: My dad was, died real young from lung cancer and he was a heavy smoker and my mom was unfortunately a heavy smoker also. And that's one of the reasons that I ended up getting the bypass at that age because I was around secondhand smoke for a long, long time. But no, not really. I didn't never, there was never any, a real knowledge of any heart disease. No. [00:53:06] Speaker A: That's why you should go to the doctor. [00:53:09] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly right. You know, and then, and then you should also listen to the doctor. That's the other thing too. Yeah. [00:53:14] Speaker A: Would your Achilles be a fail forward moment also? I mean, got you into coaching earlier. [00:53:19] Speaker B: Yeah, that would be another one. I think that, that's a good point because that one was, you know, it didn't, in the long run. It took a year of potentially good college baseball from me as far as the opportunity to pitch because I mean I had, like I said, I had a really good junior year. There was a, I had a great summer. So I mean I was kind of set up to, to, to, to, to succeed. And so if, you know, all things being equal, of course. But yeah, when that happened it was. You know, it's kind of interesting in one way. You know, you got the baseball taken out, away from you, but I got a lot stronger because I was walking around Fresno State on crutches for three months. You know, my shoulders got pretty dang strong. That helped later on when I actually, I played pro ball after that. I signed professionally after that, after the Achilles deal. So it was a short professional career, but it was at least a professional career. But. So, I mean, you know, you look at it and say, oh, if it would have, should have, could have. You know, you're right. If the door closed and a window open, you know, so. And I think probably in the long run, it was a good thing that it did because it really helped me to kind of create a little bit more of a finer sense of where I wanted to go and what I wanted to do, because ever since I was a young guy, I didn't want to be a fireman. I didn't want to be a policeman. I didn't want to be a doctor or a lawyer. I wanted to be a coach. Teacher and coach. That's been something I always wanted to do. And so I was fortunate enough to get into that. And that Achilles might have been one of the things that kind of got me there sooner and open some doors that might not have ever happened. [00:54:50] Speaker A: You're one of the nicest people I know. Have you always been this way? And that's a high compliment. Very high compliment. And I think anybody that. People that. I think. I can't remember what the quote is, but you know, how, you know, someone is how people talk about them in rooms that they're not in. And everyone that speaks of you speaks extremely highly of you as a human being. [00:55:13] Speaker B: Well, that's just. Wow, that's very, very humbling to hear that. I mean, that's. That's very nice. I appreciate that. And, you know, I think a lot of that has to do honestly with my faith. You know, I'm a strong Christian that believes that we should. That. That you need to have a giving and loving heart to people and that I'm much more in favor of. Of in quotes, being nice and. And treating people the way they. I would want to be treated and. And putting them first. I mean, I think that's very important. I mean, it's. It's. It's not all about me. That's. And that's. That's a good thing. Probably that's the case. But, you know, it's. I really appreciate you saying that. I mean, it's something that, that certainly I never gone out to say. That's exactly, that's my goal in life, is to get people to like me. That's not the point. It's the fact is that, you know, I guess it's just how you treat people and I think I, I'd really make it a. It's an, it's an intentional aspect. You want to treat people well and I think that's important and it's. [00:56:14] Speaker A: I appreciate that you also get back from that though. I think some people miss that, the, the service part. You and your wife are just at church helping people. I think you get a lot back from that. And not that you're doing. It's not a self serving way that you're doing things. You're doing things because you generally want to give back, but you also get back a lot from that too. [00:56:35] Speaker B: I would say that in essence you probably get back more than you give in many instances. And I think that's. And, and that's a key because what you, you see is when you. To me, if I can help somebody get better and do something, help them to, to find a way, okay, to, to open a door, do whatever it is. I mean that's, that's the way I look at. I mean I tried to do that with my players as far as, as far as getting the community college player recruited to a good place in a, in a, in a good program. And you know, I was always very honest. You know, if a coach would call me and ask about a kid, I'd tell them the truth. Okay, here's what you get on both sides of the ledger. And so, you know, and again. But I always want guys, people to succeed. As important, as very important for me to see people be successful and have a, at least a little bit to do with it, if that's possible. [00:57:25] Speaker A: What are you looking forward to the most about the convention this year? [00:57:30] Speaker B: Let's see. I'm looking forward to the fact that I can go to a, to a Lefty Gomez committee meeting and I don't have to worry about, about me being on the ballot. That's, that's, that's very comfortable, comforting to be honest with you. Not because of the, that I'm gonna get the award. It's just that it was, it was a little, a little nerve wracking, a little uncomfortable because I'm usually not a huge self promoter. I mean, so that was kind of an unusually uncomfortable place to be. But I, I always love to see the people and there's lots of friends. I like to go to speakers and and and learn things more about about the game. I find that I gravitate more towards the mental side of things when I deal with it and those are the areas I really look forward to hearing speakers about and talking about. Just enjoy the honestly and this is not to pat you on the back or anybody else, but the way you run the way you run that convention, the opportunities you give coaches to not only learn but to blossom to find ways that they can get out and do things on their own that can help them improve and to have an organization that is so people oriented and and so oriented towards success of. Of your members is a. Is a huge factor for me. I mean it's this will be my my 49th I think convention and I look at that and go wow. I mean that's and I and that's just the highlight of my story every year. It's just my wife is loves to go to it also to the wives breakfast and she's met a lot of made a lot of good friends in that area. And so you know there's just in. And then the other aspect is is to go to a different part of the country and see what's going on there too. We always try to add something on to the end of it if we can. I'm not sure yet what we're going to add in Columbus for where we can go from there in the winter months of the Midwest, but we'll find something. So no, it's a. It's a positive. My My son is now coaching his son in Little League baseball. He's. This is his third year coaching and you know it's. It's. I'm. He's going to be there at the convention, you know and get a chance for him to to. He's been to other conventions when he was a bunch younger to see, you know, how he can grow as a coach also. So there's puts all the just the resources you have. It's pretty cool. [00:59:49] Speaker A: So what about for somebody who's never been to a Barnstormers event? [00:59:54] Speaker B: Well, you know, if you have the opportunity to go to A1 in Sacramento is coming up and then I was the one at St. Mary's College. It's my golly. It's a way to get I think a really good handle or a good jump start on parts of the game because it's kind of like, you know, here it is. It's laid out for you. All you have to do is get your rear end there and, and pay some attention. Things are going to, you know, you're going to not only learn about the game, but you're probably going to network and meet some people there that they're going to eventually maybe be a, a connection that's going to, you're going to help them or they're going to help you. So barnstorming, I think, I think it was a great idea the way it started and I think it's a, it's a phenomenal way to get local involvement in a, in a, under a big. [01:00:43] Speaker A: Umbrella and hands on. [01:00:46] Speaker B: Well, most that. Well, the, the thing is too is that, you know, when you look at, it's great to, to hear speakers and see them and watch the video and this type of stuff, but when you actually can see it, you know, you can see players actually working drills. You can see, you know, how coaches approach and what, what their key words are, how, what they're trying to achieve in relationship to, to getting a, an activity and an action to become a habit. And you can see the way guys approach that I think is a huge learning curve for a lot of people. It's really a big help. [01:01:20] Speaker A: Anything you'd like to see for baseball as a whole going forward? [01:01:25] Speaker B: Who? That's a good question. Well, I would, I would like to see college baseball, not just the baseball, the whole way college sports run right now, I think it's, it's setting up a big opportunity for some real failures in, in the areas of, of, of maturity, loyalty, doing the right thing, being involved with the character and, and being able to understand the fact that, you know that you are accountable for situations you have and you're accountable for your decisions. And I'm starting to see that whole type of, part of the, what I consider very part of the big equation to help players develop into people and to see what, you know, my mantra is this. You know, if I'm going to coach an 18 or 19 year old, I'm going to coach them up as best I can. But I'm really trying to coach them to be what, be a good person when they're 30. Okay. When they're back in the community, when they're out there doing something that the lessons that they've learned are part of those lessons and things have made an impact on them as a person. And I'm, I'm a little concerned about that pathway right now, to be honest with you. And maybe I'm just an old fart that's, you know, myopic. [01:02:42] Speaker A: I'm not an old fart. And I'm concerned like you are. [01:02:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And that, that really concerns me. It's the, it's. I'm going to, maybe I'm going to tick off somebody here when I say this, but I'll say it anyway. I honestly think that this is a, a, this is, it's a. All of a spin off of, of the travel ball mentality. Okay. You know, it's, it's, it's all about me. It's about my numbers. It's about this. It's not about learning how to play the game. It's not learning how to be a good teammate. It's learning how to get as much as I can out of my ability in a situation that can get me to go someplace that's a little bit better, get more money, do this, do that. And I think that those aren't the values that I think are important in life. And not that money isn't. Fine, that's great. But as far as how you're going to teach the, the skills of how those skills are going to translate when you're now not wearing a jockstrap. [01:03:36] Speaker A: Yeah, we have, we have a long time from now until 10, 15 years ago down the road to see how this ultimately is going to affect society as a whole. And it's not just the sport of baseball. Oh, no, I understand every sport. But how, how, whether we're positively or negatively affecting this generation of kids 10 to 15 years from now, will it be a positive, will it be a negative? And you know, you've got to let that play out. But I'm concerned for just society as a whole where, where, where this engine is going. [01:04:11] Speaker B: Right. And it seems like it's going to see how much you can inflate the dollar sign. You know, it's just, I mean, that's, and egos involved and, and everyone I know you might have read are familiar with Ryan Holiday. [01:04:27] Speaker A: Love stoicism. Daily Stoke is one of my morning lessons. [01:04:31] Speaker B: Mine too. Same. And you know, so, you know, ego is the enemy. I mean, you know, you look at that, that look at that book and I go, wow, this is, this is too true. [01:04:41] Speaker A: So my hope is that we figure all this and, and I think that's the, that's the great thing about baseball and the baseball industry as a whole is they always end up figuring things out and adjust, I think. [01:04:54] Speaker B: So I guess probably my, my dad could be talking to you. When we were back way in the day to be going by these kids, I don't know that's their freaking values. [01:05:04] Speaker A: I brought that up multiple times on here. That every generation is always like, well, this new generation's coming out. Well, they'll, they'll probably figure it out, and they'll probably figure out a way to make it better than it was, honestly. [01:05:16] Speaker B: Well, you know that that's, you have to have that, that optimism. You have to understand the fact that is if you're, if you're a fan of stoicism, you know, you have to know what you can control, what you can't control. [01:05:26] Speaker A: And so that's the best thing about stoicism. [01:05:29] Speaker B: I agree. [01:05:29] Speaker A: That's on what you can control. And the rest of it's just not, not worth putting any time into it. [01:05:36] Speaker B: I hear you there. Yeah. Good stuff. Well, I'm glad we've got it. Yeah. [01:05:40] Speaker A: What are some final thoughts before I let you go? [01:05:42] Speaker B: I just. Well, first of all, I just say thank you for. I know. Thank you for your time and for the, the opportunity to, to sit here and, and talk about all sorts of things that I think some of them are important. Some are just fun. Others, I think there's always food for thought. And I think that, you know, anytime you're involved in anything you do, you have to understand, okay, what did I learn from this? What did I take away from this? What was it? Something that, that I heard, said or did that said they made me think one way or the other. I'm really happy they were able to do this. I really enjoyed the, you know, the openness of the conversation and those people that are listening to it. You know, good luck. No, I hope that. I know that it's something that you all, we all make our own pathway and we, we take a look at the fact that when we have purpose and intent and some passion and we turn it in the right direction, things are going to. Really good things are going to happen. So if you learn anything at all, just, just, you know, go with your heart and go with good thoughts that are intended to create good results. And it's the pathway that's the key. It's not the end result is great, but it's the routine and the step by step stuff that gets you there. [01:06:58] Speaker A: Pat, I really appreciate your time and I appreciate you for who you are as a person. You're a great example of how to be a great human being. I appreciate you, sir. [01:07:08] Speaker B: Thank you so much. That's overwhelming. I appreciate that very much. And I will be seeing you in beautiful downtown Columbus. Are you coming out? [01:07:16] Speaker A: Sacramento. Before that. [01:07:18] Speaker B: Oh, you are going to be there. Oh, good. Good. [01:07:19] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:07:20] Speaker B: Yep. [01:07:20] Speaker A: Yes, sir. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks, sir. [01:07:23] Speaker B: All right. You take care. And thanks a lot for being patient with me. [01:07:26] Speaker A: I said it during the podcast, but Coach Doyle truly is one of the nicest people you'll meet. He's the type of person you come away feeling better about yourself after you interact with him. So happy for him, getting the recognition he deserves. With our highest honor we have with the abyss. Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale, and Matt west in the ABC office. For all the help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via email, rbrownleighbca.org Twitter, Instagram or TikTok, coachbeunnerabca or direct message me via the MyABCA app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off for the American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks. And leave it better for those behind. [01:08:13] Speaker B: And you know that way Yep Wait. [01:08:17] Speaker A: For another day. [01:08:22] Speaker B: And the world will always return as your life is there before your name and you know that place Wait for another day.