Lary Sorensen - Chief Baseball Officer, pitchLogic & Announcer, Wake Forest University

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the ABCA's podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Brownlee. Get the Pro treatment and design your very own custom Rawlings Glove just like your favorite big league stars. Choose from countless patterns, web types, lace colors and more to showcase your unique personal style. Start with a pro design and change it up with your team colors or build yours completely from scratch with your name, number and state flag. Visit Rawlings.com to design your custom glove today. Happy Fielding. This episode is sponsored by Netting Pros. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Netting Professionals specializes in the design, fabrication and installation of custom netting for backstops, batting cages, dugouts, BP screens and ball carts. They also design and install digital graphic, wall padding, windscreen, turf, turf protectors, dugout benches, dugout cubbies and more. Netting Professionals is an official partner of the abca. Continues to provide quality products and services to many high school, college and professional fields, facilities and stadiums throughout the country. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Contact them today at 844-620-2707 or infoettingpros.com, visit them online at www.nettingpros.com or check out Netting Pros on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects. Make sure to let CEO Will Minor know that the ABCA sent you. Now on to the podcast. Joining us this week on the ABCA podcast is Wake Forest University baseball and football announcer and CBO of Pitch Logic, Larry Sorensen. Sorensen joined the broadcast booth the demon deacons in 2014. Sorensen pitched collegiately at the University of Michigan and was an 8th round draft pick of the Milwaukee brewers in 1976. In 1978, Sorensen won 18 games and made the American League All Star team. Sorensen's last MLB appearance was in 1988 for the San Francisco Giants, ending his career with 93 wins and 569 strikeouts. Sorensen became a broadcaster while still an active player, working as a sports reporter in Milwaukee during the off season. After his playing career ended, he served as a color analyst for major league and college baseball games on ESPN from 1990 to 1994 and called games for the Detroit Tigers radio network from 1995 to 1998. Larry's story is a story of redemption. After years of substance abuse, he finally got the help he needed and has been thriving since 2014. Let's welcome Larry Sorensen to the podcast. [00:03:07] Speaker B: Ryan, how you doing? [00:03:08] Speaker A: What's going on? [00:03:10] Speaker B: You hear me all right? [00:03:11] Speaker A: Yeah, you sound perfect. [00:03:13] Speaker B: Good deal. [00:03:14] Speaker A: Yeah, how do I Sound. [00:03:16] Speaker B: You sound dandy as always. [00:03:21] Speaker A: What's up? We got BC in town. [00:03:23] Speaker B: BC is here. I talked to Todd in a Donato last night. They'll still run on every single count in the world, so. [00:03:31] Speaker A: Great guy. [00:03:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. [00:03:35] Speaker A: Yeah. He hosted a barnstormers for us this fall. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Oh, did he? [00:03:39] Speaker A: Yeah, that was our first one, so. [00:03:41] Speaker B: Nice. [00:03:41] Speaker A: Good. I'd never been to. I've been to Boston, but with. We hosted one in Northeastern too. But I had been with being in the Cape for three summers, I'd been to Fenway and that was it. And bought. You just never went to Boston? I think I saw the Allman Brothers when I was playing. We had an off day free. And so I went and saw the Allman Brothers at the amphitheater. But that was sad. That's south of Boston, but it's. That part of Boston is beautiful. [00:04:13] Speaker B: Well, that was my favorite city and it was one of my favorite ballparks to pitch in. [00:04:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Quite honestly, I didn't like Fenway as an outsider though. They. They let you know. I mean, they're called for a reason. Like they let you know you're not from the area. They sniff you out. [00:04:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:28] Speaker A: My. My southern Indiana accent probably didn't help. [00:04:32] Speaker B: You know, the, the interesting thing is though, is that it's. It was one of the very few cities where when I was a mile away from the ballpark, people would say, you're Larry Sorensen, you're 7 and 5 this year with a 3.8, you know, and they would spout your numbers and everything off to you and knew. So that was. That was kind of fun. And. And then, yeah, I was a sinker ball pitcher. So Rice and Evans and those guys, they're hitting three irons that are hitting halfway up the wall and they're getting singles on what would have been bombed someplace else. So I didn't mind pitching there. [00:05:07] Speaker A: You forget how many good schools are right in a. Basically a mile square footage mile area. You have mit, Harvard, Boston College, Northeastern. Like it's crazy. You can go down the laundry list of schools right in that area. They're unbelievable schools. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Plus. Plus they serve legal seafood clam chowder in the football press box. So that's a. That's a big plus in any sports broadcasters life. [00:05:34] Speaker A: Have you watched any of Clubhouse? Speaking of the Red Sox, have you watched any of Clubhouse on Netflix? Yeah, they followed the Red Sox round last year. [00:05:43] Speaker B: No, the one that, the one that I. [00:05:44] Speaker A: This is on the 2024. [00:05:47] Speaker B: My son's friends did. [00:05:48] Speaker A: I think it's the same company that does, like, full swing and the tennis one and Formula one racing. I think it's the same company. They. I'm. I'm like three episodes in. One of my former assistants called me this week. He's like, have you watched Press Box or Clubhouse yet? And I'm like, no. He goes, you need to watch it because it. [00:06:05] Speaker B: I'll. I'll have to check out. There was a documentary done on him. I might have been on 30 30. That the guy from Morning Joe's son does. [00:06:15] Speaker A: Yep. [00:06:16] Speaker B: His son is a friend of mine, of my son's in New York, and they did a documentary about their championship team that was. [00:06:23] Speaker A: And I've seen that one, too. But this is. This is intriguing because they do a deep dive like Geron. It's a lot more on the mental side of baseball, really, and how hard it is to play and play at that level. And, you know, they had a lot of young kids that play. They had so many injuries last year, so they're forced to play a lot of young guys. And so it's interesting. Alex Cora does a good job in it. Veritech doesn't talk much, which is the interesting thing that Veritech doesn't do. Has not. And he might. Has not done one interview. You see him in passing and he talks, but it's. It's Cora. And then their pitching coach, Bailey, do a majority coaching staff. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Cora was interesting. I did a. A thing for bat for the baseball assistants team. You know, I don't know much how much you've delved into my history, but, yeah, there were some rough years and. [00:07:19] Speaker A: We'Ll get into that at some point. [00:07:21] Speaker B: Okay. And Cora was, man, just outstandingly friendly and wonderful and everything else. When I, when we were in the Red Sox clubhouse, well, you forget, he. [00:07:32] Speaker A: Was suspended for an entire year. You know, with Astros stuff. He. He sat out an entire year, and then they brought him back. [00:07:41] Speaker B: If you dig enough, there's skeletons in all our closets. [00:07:44] Speaker A: I hear Larry Sorensen voice Wake Forest baseball and football, but with pitch logic. For a long time. 11 seasons in the big leagues and then Michigan alum. And I won't hold that against you with me coaching at Iowa for. For nine years. But, Larry, thanks for joining me. [00:08:00] Speaker B: Always a pleasure. Great to see you again. [00:08:01] Speaker A: Yeah, we've been trying to line this. It feels like maybe four or five years. Every time I see Wake or I see in Omaha, I'm like, I got to get you on the podcast. So you've been in my notes Forever. So I appreciate you making the time, especially because you guys got a series starting today on Easter weekend. [00:08:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And it should be a very interesting series with Boston College. The ACC is just all jumbled up. I think I counted there were four teams that were nine and nine, you know, so once you get past the couple of elite teams, it's a mess from there on down. And it'll be interesting with a new format in the conference tournament this year. [00:08:32] Speaker A: Yeah. What do you think of the new format? [00:08:34] Speaker B: I love it. I. It's different. You know, I couldn't stand the old format, pool play, where you play games that have no consequence on anything. Just seemed like a waste of time to be out there working at it. You know, the score's got to mean something, and it needs to have an effect on something to make it really important in it in a conference tournament situation. And I. So I'm thrilled about the fact that it's one and done. Especially thrilled if Wake Forest can sneak into that top four. [00:09:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It's the pod. You know, the Valley was doing pods for a little bit, too, and I get it, because you get more people in, and maybe it helps RPI for RPI purposes, but it. It's weird to play games in a tournament environment where they don't mean anything because you know who's going to the next round. [00:09:21] Speaker B: Yeah. It was not a good situation, but that was the only way they could really do it at that point, with that many teams. But this year it'll be different. But if you get that double buy from being one of the top four and don't play until Thursday, it can save your pitching. It makes a big difference. [00:09:35] Speaker A: And that kind of mirrors the basketball tournament, correct? [00:09:37] Speaker B: A little bit. Yes. [00:09:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Which makes sense. I think it makes the regular season more meaningful. [00:09:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that. As you try to get into the top four, I think it gives everything a little bit more edge of desperation, too, which I was never even coaching my son's teams as he was growing up, and my son made it to Double A with the Tigers, so he was a pretty competitive player. But even coaching him in some of those tournaments, you know, I was not a. If we win and they lose and that team wins and they tie, this is what will happen. It was just go win. Just go win. And then somebody come up to me afterwards and tell me who we play next and what time, and we'll be there to try to win again, you know, and that was kind of the whole philosophy, and I think that's the way you have to look as, especially as a former starting pitcher. It was the way you had to look at the game overall is. Let me focus on that two and a half hour window on Friday night starting at 7 o' clock and prepare myself to get there and then I'll worry about the rest of the stuff after that one's over. [00:10:41] Speaker A: In your time at Wake, who's been the best position player that Wakes had? [00:10:44] Speaker B: Oh, boy, they've had a lot. They've had a lot. Will Craig was a terrific position player. You know, Brock Wilkin now with the brewers, terrific position player. Nate Mondo, who's played, I think nine years or something now in the minor leagues and got a taste of big league competition, has been a really good player. He was. Stuart Fairchild now with with the Braves, back with the Braves, was a terrific player. There have been a lot of them and it's been a lot of fun, but it changes every year and some years it changes more rapidly than others. [00:11:15] Speaker A: What about pitcher? Best pitcher Wakes had, you know, Rhett. [00:11:19] Speaker B: Louder, ACC pitcher of the year two years in a row and unfortunately sidelined a little bit now certainly has to be up there. Will Craig as a closer was surprisingly good. So he was a lot of fun and very competitive guy at the plate or on the mound. So he was a lot of fun. They've had, they've had a lot of great pitchers come through there and a bunch of them are still pitching. And with that pitching lab, it's become a precursor to what baseball would have has become and they have used it to every extent that they possibly can. [00:11:51] Speaker A: I was over there, Wilkin and Louder's freshman year. Louder was throwing midweek, so I saw him. Did you kind of know that team was going to be good if they could keep those pieces together? Did you know in two or three years that team was going to be really good? [00:12:04] Speaker B: Yeah, they had that special bond that you always look for in the chemistry and the leadership and everything else. And they had Rhett Lauder, you know, which made a difference. It's funny because as we talk about the era that we are in in baseball right now and the technology and the numbers and everything else take such command. One of the things that, and I talk about this with coaches all the time, one of the things that gets overlooked is judging a hitter's swing in reaction to what you throw, you know, and the ability to be able to do that in game is something that I think gets greatly overlooked. And I think that's one of Brett Lauder's greatest skills. And what's going to make him a 10 year player if he stays healthy is the fact that he's able to adjust mid game to the way people are adjusting to him. You know, and as a pitcher, every pitch is a different adventure and you've got to flush the last one and get ready for the next one. But to be able to retain what you learned from the way a hitter reacted to what you have, not what it says on the board, not what he showed on film the week before, but what he's doing in the here and now, I think is one of the great secrets to baseball and the guys that can do that are successful for a long time. [00:13:13] Speaker A: And a battler. If you look at the World Series that year, he was sick, right? His, his outing and he still, he still gave wake a chance like, and, and you could just, you heard like that was a rumbling like, hey, he's not feeling good, he's been sick, but he still went out and dealt with. [00:13:28] Speaker B: And he probably would have gone another inning had he been feeling a little bit better. But you know, that game with Paul Skeen, certainly one of the all time great classic World Series games. I was fortunate enough to broadcast three years of the College World Series in Omaha for ESPN back in the early 90s, which is when I think that college baseball was really grabbing its footing to become what it is today. When we had all those great character coaches, you know, with Ron Frazier down in Miami and Skip Burtman and some of those guys and Tim Brando and I actually, actually did the first two college pairing shows together. We did it from the hall of Fame in Overland park. And, and so that was really a big period of growth for college baseball. And I'm a much bigger college sports fan than I am a professional sports fan, even in the other sports as well. So it's been a fun ride. [00:14:20] Speaker A: What about favorite opposing pitcher? [00:14:24] Speaker B: I tell you, watching skiings that night, it was, that was, that was pretty exciting. But I mean I go all the way back to Paul Byrd, you know, back in the days there. And I just missed Clemens, but saw him pitch live one time and that was a great thrill. There have been a lot of them through the years and it's fun to watch them go on to their careers and see who you thought was going to go where, where you thought they would and who hasn't. And it makes you realize exactly how precarious the scouting situation is to try to make a living out of doing that. [00:14:55] Speaker A: What about position player posing? [00:14:59] Speaker B: I remember Jeffrey Hammonds when he was lighting it up with Stanford. Go back that far, obviously, Will Clark, that lsu, the Mississippi State teams had a chance to. To room with Will Clark and Mike Kruko out in San Francisco for about two months, right at the tail end of my career. And I'd known Krup for a while before that. We'd been on a cruise together with Bruce Suter. And if you can imagine that I date myself here a little bit. But that was kind of a fun cruise. And, you know, to sit and talk baseball with those guys was really a lot of fun. [00:15:33] Speaker A: This is from the office, by the way. Two people want to know who your favorite Wake Forest staff member was out of Curt Birkins and Mike Odom. [00:15:43] Speaker B: Oh, you guys are really trying to set me up. Now, are you sure that was a staff question or is that came from Mike Odom? [00:15:50] Speaker A: Shout out to Mike. I text Mike. I'm like, I'm interviewing Larry. You got a question for him? He was like, yeah, ask him who he likes better. Between me and Kurt. [00:15:58] Speaker B: Well, Odom was my boss here in. At Wake Forest, you know, and I guess Kurt was my boss at pitch logic at F5 Sports. So I'd say they're both fine gentlemen that are outstanding in their fields. [00:16:11] Speaker A: Yeah, great people. 1978 was your best season by far in the big leagues. [00:16:18] Speaker B: It was. You know, I really think that the next year I pitched just as well. [00:16:23] Speaker A: But, you know, make the All Star. [00:16:25] Speaker B: Game, you know, the all star. I was 15, I think 15 and 14, maybe in 79. And the ERA was slightly higher. But you know how it is. A couple outs here or there, and you try to tell people how precarious wins are and how hard it is to win and, you know, how much. How quickly things can change. And one or two pitches can make a difference in a season. And I felt like I threw just as well in 79 as I did in 78. A little bit newer to the league, you know, so it was a little bit easier because the hitters don't know you as well. We were joking about that at the ballpark core, Muscarin. I were joking about it. That, you know, now, back then you faced a guy, and then five days later, you face the same team. So you weren't talking about two times through the order. You were talking about six times through the order or, you know, I had a lot of complete games back then. So seven or eight or nine times through the order, you were seeing guys and a little bit. A little bit different challenge. And so when I spoke earlier about making adjustments. That's what it was. You had to change what you did so that they didn't get locked into your patterns. That's the fun of it. That's the fun part. [00:17:37] Speaker A: I have my theory. I feel like that's why we have more injuries now, because starters aren't asked to go as long. Where in the past you knew you're probably going to be close to throwing a complete game, turn around four or five days later and have to do it again. I think you guys conserved yourselves a little bit more back then. Correct? [00:17:55] Speaker B: I was joking about that with Todd Inordinato last night from Boston College that we had a four man rotation. And there were a couple of times that George Bamberger looked down the bench and he said, hey, Larry, isn't today your day to throw in a pen? I said, yeah. He said, are you done yet? I said, no. He said, don't wait till the 8th, you know. And I picked up a couple saves that way because with, it was my day to throw. The second day after I started, I'd throw that quick inning and get three outs, get a save, and then take one day off and start again against the next team. And he'd come out to the mound in the seventh or eighth inning and he'd say, good luck and he'd turn and he'd walk back to the bench. [00:18:34] Speaker A: You feel like command was better back then too, because of that. Maybe it's more touch, more times off the mound, but, but, but throwing 80%, probably not. Trying to crank it up 100%, you. [00:18:47] Speaker B: Know, more than 80%, but not 100%. You're exactly right. And you watch guys now, you know, and they're 94 in the first and they're 94 in the seventh, but it's every single thing that they've got. And it might only be 94 in the fifth. And you can see that they're toast. You know, they're starting to miss 17 inches across the plate and 2 1/2ft high instead of low when they're, when they're going for a spot. And I think that's a, that's a great point and a very accurate point. [00:19:16] Speaker A: Did you have to make many mechanical adjustments over the course of your career? [00:19:21] Speaker B: Basically one. And that was because I had a shoulder impingement and I was an over the head guy at the start, which I think was a really good timing thing for me at that point. And so I go over my head and then come down and then back up on top Well, I had a shoulder impingement in the middle of that 78 season when I threw 281innings when I was 22 years old. And Cal McClish, Calvin Coolidge, Julius Caesar, Tuskahoma, McClish was our pitching coach. And I said, cal, man, my shoulder, it hurts. He says, well, when does it hurt? I said, well, when I go over my head. And he said, here's what we're going to do. Start from your belly button and then it'll only hurt half the time. And I said, sounds good to me. And didn't miss a start, just kept on throwing and had eight complete games in a row. At one point during that season, you. [00:20:10] Speaker A: Make two good points. I miss over the head. I think. I think more pitchers should. I think it adds rhythm and timing. And you also talked about dropping your hands by your belly button, which I think is another thing that would free some players up. You see guys so stiff now where. I think just those two adjustments would clean a lot of things up for four pitchers now. [00:20:31] Speaker B: Yeah, there are a lot of robotic deliveries. You know, it's here, here, there, you know, and again. And this is generational, and it's the game. Everything changes. Price of gas has changed from 78. You know, everything changes. And I get that. And I've tried to change with it, obviously, getting into the technology world. But, you know, back then it was all flow and rhythm and go and get behind it and get everything to it because you've got that natural thing going. And I think. I think guys hurt can jerk their motions a lot more now. And I think it puts different stresses on the body now, and there just doesn't seem. And like I said, that was a pace and rhythm thing for me. And you see guys always trying it, but you don't see a lot of them trying it by doing that over the head. You see them more with different things with the lower part of the body or the paws or whatever. It might be so. Just different. It's just different. [00:21:24] Speaker A: You talked about robotic. I just don't see a lot of timing with the lead knee and the glove working together. [00:21:30] Speaker B: It's. [00:21:31] Speaker A: And that was the thing that I always looked at. I'm like, if their lead knee and their glove are working together and then the lead knees drop and the hands are breaking on time, like, they're probably going to throw strikes. Like, it might not be great, great command, but they're at least going to be able to get it over the 17 inches of the plate. [00:21:46] Speaker B: Yeah, Cal always told me that strikes were built into my delivery. And so he one time put a blindfold on me down in the bullpen and I threw five strikes out of 10p pitches with my fastball with a blindfold on. And, you know, it's just. You got that feel and you know what you want to do and. And that in turn gives you the confidence and conviction, you know, that you can do it. And what I see in today's pitchers all around the country as I'm watching games is I see guys that are throwing darts a little bit because they're not quite sure that they're going to get there or they're 110% and overthrowing trying to accomplish what they want to do instead of just really looking like they're comfortable. And then, you know, that's a percentage, a smaller percentage of guys that are like that. But there are a lot of people floundering that you would think would be a little smoother. [00:22:37] Speaker A: Did your pitch arsenal change much over the years? [00:22:40] Speaker B: No. Well, I tried everything because I think that's what you do is as you try everything. And when I got traded to the Cardinals in 1981, I played with Kitty up there with Jim Cott, who a lot of folks out there probably aren't even going to recognize the name anymore, but. But Kitty had 25 years in the big leagues at that point. And I said, well, this guy's got to know something. And I'd watch him. And I remember John Martin got called to the big leagues from Eastern Michigan and he was in the Cardinals organization and he came up and. And Kitty said, hi, I'm, I'm Jim Cott. How do you hold your slider? You know, And I said, you're 25 years in and you're still looking and still trying to figure out what somebody's doing because you're looking for another edge, maybe that' to do. So I was basically sinker slide, a hard sinker, which in today's game, today's technology was probably a legit 92 to 94ish. I was 94, they said, in the All Star game in 78. And I think they juiced the guns, to be honest with you. But they said that's what they had me at. But, you know, back then it was an 88 to 90 type sinker, but it was a bowling ball sinker, you know, a thumb breaker. And I had. I depended on movement, but I also had Robin Yount and Paul Molitor playing behind me, so it seemed like a good idea to throw a ground ball. [00:23:55] Speaker A: Who was the best pitching coach you ever had? [00:23:58] Speaker B: Cal was. Cal was right there. And I was fortunate because Cal McClish, who was a Native American from Oklahoma, was the pitching coach. And George Bamberger had come over from Baltimore where he had those 420 game winners in one year. And he came over and he was from Staten Island, New York, and dropping F bombs every third word. You know, so I had this way out there, Staten island guy, and I had this way out there, you know, Cal McClish. And somehow different ways, different things, they settled into my head and made sense one way or another. And so it was like the greatest learning experience. And then I went over to St. Louis and had Hub Kittle and Whitey Herzog. And Whitey Herzog taught me about as much about baseball in one season as I learned in my entire career. Because he was so far ahead of the game. [00:24:45] Speaker A: Does he get as much credit as he deserves? [00:24:49] Speaker B: Nowhere close. He did with. And it became a joke that we had to wait for Whitey's briefcase to get on board the plane because he did with charts, paper charts and different colored magic markers what two guys with computers are doing today after games, you know, he knew what pitch, where it went, who it was against. All the, all the stuff that are the basis of, of today, he was doing by himself manually with pen and paper. Back in 1980 we were too. I'm sure before that we were too. [00:25:19] Speaker A: I mean, we charted with different color pens when I was at Evansville and so I took that with me. We charted with different color pens. [00:25:25] Speaker B: You know, he would. [00:25:27] Speaker A: Different colors too. [00:25:29] Speaker B: We, he said, Chuck Killer or Helen. [00:25:31] Speaker A: Colored pens for righty, left handed pictures like that. We had different color. I mean, we didn't have the technology, so you made it work. But it's easier to see those different colors and then you can see the tendencies. [00:25:42] Speaker B: Yeah, in, in 81, that was, that was pretty new stuff. And he would send Hal Lanier, Chuck Hiller down to the end of the bench and he'd say, look, he walk up to the extra guys and he'd say in the eighth inning, if this guy's pitching with somebody on your hit and if nobody's on, you're hitting in the ninth. And he'd give them the situation they were going to face later on in the baseball game, the pitcher that they were going to face. Now, we didn't have video of them because at that time, you know, game of the week came out once every three months to watch your team. So you didn't have a lot of video of the guys like they do today, but he was way ahead of his time. [00:26:21] Speaker A: What player helped you adjust to the big leagues the most? [00:26:25] Speaker B: Well, they ruined me. Mike Caldwell was traded from San Francisco or from Cincinnati over to Milwaukee in 77. And they, they had me room with him because we all had roommates at that point in time. And, you know, he was a 32 year old guy, Crusty, you know, from, from Tarboro, North Carolina. Still holds a bunch of the strikeout records at NC State. So when I go over there, Elliot always says, hey, did you take a look at Caldwell's numbers? They're better than yours were in college, by the way. You know, I say, yes, I know that because Mike reminded me of it all the time. But he really taught me about competing as much as anything in preparation. And he was a sinker baller, Staten island sinker, Bamberger used to call it. And so his style of pitching was kind of similar to mine, but he taught me about competing. The closest we ever came to a fight was Rod Carew hit a ball off me, the single that he turned into a double. And he said something to me from second base and I kind of laughed and smiled. And Caldwell wanted to fight me in the hotel room afterwards because I exchanged a smile with Rod Carew during a game. You know, never forget that. And there are lessons to be learned and things like that. [00:27:38] Speaker A: What is your definition of competing? People, people throw that term around. What is your definition of competing? [00:27:44] Speaker B: Brian Price asked me a couple of years ago over at Wake Forest. He said, what got you 10 years in the big leagues? And I said I was willing to trip a run around in third base to keep him from scoring. Just, you know, being. Trying to cover every facet of what you need to do with that next opportunity. You have to do it to get the man you're facing that pitch that out and every time you do it. And I see a lot of guys, it seems today that are willing to prepare to do things like that seven times out of 10. Well, baseball doesn't work like that because if you give yourself three chances to make mistakes, you'll make three mistakes. You know, if you can take them those extra steps and be ready to go. 99 times out of 100, you. You've reduced those. And I mean little things that don't cost you anything. Things like always covering first, things like backing up third. You know, the pitching aspect of it, the throwing aspect of it is just one aspect of it. You know, you can win games other ways. And I remember a game against The Angels where I threw a guy out at second because I backed up third and it won me a baseball game. And you don't forget lessons like that. And I don't, I don't see enough of that kind of stuff. The other side of it, I mean, don't get me wrong, players today, work, put more time and effort into it than we did, quite honestly. You know, our idea of off season workouts was graduating from 12 ounce curls to 16 ounce curls to 40 ounce curls and then go to spring training and lose 15 pounds and get in shape when you had a job secure and it wasn't a $30 million a year job and everything else, but. And the players put in incredible hours, work incredibly hard, but I think we've gotten away from all the time being ready to do the extra little things. And you know baseball, that goes into. [00:29:39] Speaker A: The robotic piece of it too though. [00:29:40] Speaker B: Yeah, but you know baseball, it's always the little things. It's always the, the thing in the third inning that in the ninth you say, dang, we're down a run. And if I'd have done that in the third, we wouldn't be down a run. [00:29:55] Speaker A: Who was better back when you were in college, Michigan or Iowa? [00:30:00] Speaker B: Well, we won the Big Ten two out of three years that I was at Michigan. [00:30:04] Speaker A: So Iowa had a World Series back appearance back then. [00:30:07] Speaker B: Iowa did. And Iowa had a great program, great respect for Dwayne Banks and, and the program that he ran up there. And it was always fun to compete against them. But you know, two rings, I've got them in the box at home if you want me to wear them next time. [00:30:24] Speaker A: How did you get involved with pitch logic? [00:30:27] Speaker B: It's a great story actually. You know, I went through a rough patch in life and I got turned on to a church in Winston Salem and I was playing racquetball at the church with the guy and he said, hey, I know these two guys that are doing something with a baseball and you probably ought to go meet them. And I put it off and put it off and put it off. And finally one Saturday I was doing a weight game and I set up a meeting and I really had about a half hour window, 45 minute window, and I spent about an hour and a half because I knew that this was something that was going to catch on with what baseball was doing. And that was almost eight years ago now. [00:31:03] Speaker A: Yeah, Larry Owens, that's the first time I really saw it in action was with Larry Owens during COVID We went to Kellerman and he had it and his guys were you. And he raved about it. And that's the first time I've ever really seen it used. But it is great. It's. It's great technology and it's, it's very helpful. [00:31:22] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, you know, it's all the spin numbers and the velocity and the arm slot, which. So you know, for 9, 10, 11 year old team, you're wondering, do we need all those metrics? Well, you start out getting him used to the language, which is a different approach than most coaches, especially the amateur side, are familiar with. But you get used to the language of what's going on at higher levels. But then just for those young kids, it's throw out of the same arm slot, you know, be consistent, do the same things time after time after time, figure out what you can do and what you can't do, what works for you and what doesn't. And this is just a circuit board inside of a baseball that has all the characteristics of the major league baseball. And you throw it and it instantly, it's connected by Bluetooth to a telephone or tablet. And you see the results instantly. Like by the time you turn around to look at the TV that's up, the results are already there. And you can see, I think, 28 different metrics that are available to you. [00:32:20] Speaker A: When you say rough patch, what do you mean? I'm sorry, when you say rough patch, you went through a rough patch, what do you mean? [00:32:27] Speaker B: I'm an alcoholic. And it manifested itself. I spent three and a half years in prison because of drunk driving offenses. And I was a mess. And I came out of prison and I was still a mess. And it wasn't until. And I'll see him, I think we're playing golf on Monday, actually. A guy named Rick Gefeller, who was a mailman and he was on my route in a little condo that I was in. And I was basically just drinking myself to death. And I wasn't really trying to commit suicide. I just didn't really care if I lived or not at that point in time. And so I was just constantly drinking. And he just kept after me to go to his church. For 18 months this guy worked on me and he finally got me to go to one of their Easter celebrations. And music had always held a real big interest for me from my youthful days as a boy soprano at 6 foot 1, when they used to cart me around the state of Michigan to sing in competition. And the music got to me and the message came back of some things that I had lost in life and I started attending the church, joined the choir and playing racquetball with this gentleman. I got turned on to David Rankin and Steven Sukernick, the founders of the company. And Steven's still. Still our chief IT officer. And. And it's been a great ride. It's been a great ride. That was in March of 2018, and I've been with them ever since. [00:33:54] Speaker A: So did you have to make some personal lifestyle changes? [00:33:58] Speaker B: Absolutely. I had to find something to live for, which I did. And again at the church, found online, met a woman online that started attending the same church, Calvary Baptist Church. Walked in and you talk about how things work in your life. I walked in and sat down by myself and dressed up to put a blue blazer on, but had been drunk the night before and sat in front of a woman and she started a conversation. We talked a little bit. It turned out her husband played baseball at Wake Forest back in the 50s. And he said, well, you need. He said, you need to come to come to our Bible class. And this is funny because these people, Jim and Brenda Israel, who later became very good friends, would. She said, you know, I think that might be our new pastor. I've been called a lot of things in life, Ryan. I've never been called a pastor candidate before, but they got me to their Bible class and Ron Wellman was in that Bible class, and a fellow that had been the chief was the finance guy for BBT Bank. Their CFO was in that Bible class. And, you know, so Ron Wellman said, you know, would you like to broadcast our games? Which I started doing, which led me to doing Winston Salem Dash games because somebody knew the owner of the Dash and so everything. And then. And then this fellow that I played racquetball with, Joe, knew the guys that started this company, and so I started working here. [00:35:25] Speaker A: Is there accountability piece to that, like. [00:35:27] Speaker B: Holding yourself accountable to it, you know, absolutely, 1,000%. But let's also think a little bit about the era, you know, as I was drafted in 1976, in June, on June 12, I signed in 76. And in June 7 of 77, I pitched against the Milwaukee, against the Baltimore Orioles. And my buddies from Michigan called me up and said, hey, we just got our regional bid. We're playing against, I think it was Southern Illinois at the time. We're playing against Southern Illinois in the regionals. And I said, well, that's great. I'm pitching against the Orioles on Tuesday, you know, so there's trade offs to everything that you do. But I still, you know, 50 years later, still get the ribbing from those guys about how they'd been to Omaha. They would have gone to Omaha and won it all in 78 if I'd have just stayed around. Or 77 rather for that. If I'd have just stayed around for that year. And they're unmerciful. Ted Mahan, who coached at Michigan State, beats me up every time I talk to him. He beats me up about leaving those guys on because my junior year at Michigan, my senior year in Michigan would have been Steve Howes freshman year at Michigan and he broke my school record for wins in his freshman year. So we'd had the two of us on a pitching staff. That would have been some fun. [00:36:44] Speaker A: Do you think the 20 round draft is good for baseball? [00:36:47] Speaker B: I don't know. I think that there are an awful lot of very talented guys that will come out of nowhere if you give them the opportunity and, and sometimes the length to do it. It's just we all develop at different times. We all do different things. And I think that 20 rounds cuts us, cuts the limit down of guys that deserve chances to play. I'm grateful that baseball has changed the way they do things a little bit, even though they've cut the amount of teams down, you know, taking independent ball a little bit more into account and giving guys more chances because you find those great stories of guys that all of a sudden come out of nowhere, it's not nowhere they've spent nine years perfecting their craft. It's just they finally got the opportunity and there's a lot of that that goes into it. You know, it's. I was lucky because again, drafted. And so I was in rookie ball in Newark, New York. Well, that was the year that the Milwaukee brewers played the New York Mets in the hall of Fame game in Cooperstown. So they called. I was a strike thrower. You know, I averaged 2.1 walks per 9 throughout my major league career. And so they brought me up from rookie ball two hours away to pitch in the hall of Fame game against the Mets. And I won seven innings in double A park, which is about 140 down the right field line, it felt like, and pitched seven innings against the Mets and gave up three earnings. And the next day they sent me to double A. So I skipped a ball entirely. I've still never played an A ball. And you know, so the right place at the right time in baseball and the right opinion at the right time has a lot to do with what, how your career goes Unfortunately, I do. [00:38:23] Speaker A: Like the restructuring, though, especially for us in North Carolina, because those, most of those teams are high A now. [00:38:29] Speaker B: They are high A. And it's all about the opportunities. You know, it's a mystery to follow. The money's still a big factor. You know, I remember we had a kid we gave at that time, a first rounder we gave 100 grand to and was like, you know, he's going to be in the big leagues next year. Well, guess what? It was the eighth rounder that they gave 8,000 to that actually went to the big leagues the next year and he spent a couple of years. And I called, I remember calling our, calling my buddies back home and saying, our college shortstops better than this kid they just gave 100 grand to and he couldn't hit. So. [00:39:06] Speaker A: How'D you know when it was time to be finished pitching? [00:39:09] Speaker B: Suter told me that when all 30 teams say no, it's time. And I, I said, hey, Bruce, all 30 said no. What do I do now? You know, and fortunately, I had, I had two goals when I was, when I was a kid. I grew up in Detroit and I wanted to be a major league baseball player, which I did. And I wanted Ernie Harwell's job. I wanted to be a broadcaster because I just, I, I'm still a bit Ryan, you know me, I'm still a baseball lifer, right? And always will be. And, and there's something. And by the way, if you're out there and you want to give yourself a three minute treat and you're a baseball romantic, look up. That's Baseball by Ernie Harwell. And he recites a poem he wrote about baseball. And I've probably seen him do it live a dozen times. And I sat next to Al Kaline one night and both of us had tears streaming down our face after we'd seen it. And just fantastic. But I wanted to do the Tiger broadcast and I was able to accomplish that a little bit later in life. And Ernie Harwell helped me get that job. So, you know, that's the way the world rolls sometimes. And I dreamt my way out of that. [00:40:12] Speaker A: How'd you get to North Carolina? [00:40:15] Speaker B: My sister was the dean of libraries at Wake Forest and then became the vice provost at Wake Forest. And I came down in January and it was 72 degrees and people were playing golf in shorts. I went back to Michigan and they were putting six foot poles next to the fire hydrants so the people could, so that the firemen could find the fire hydrants and I said, well, that'd be a good place to live. I was also really in a bad way, in a personal way. You know, I found out that my kids were fighting each other to see who had to make the phone call to make sure that I was still alive. And. And so they said, you better go down to your sister for a while. And so I moved down here and life. [00:40:57] Speaker A: Funny how life works. [00:40:58] Speaker B: Married the woman I dated online. And Elaine came to me one day with a little puppy, and her dogs had mated, and the vet said, you're going to have one, possibly two. And they had six. And she said we'd been dating for about three weeks. They said, could you just take this puppy for a couple of weeks till I find a home? And 12 years later, we've still got the dogs, still got the wife. Life has been wonderful. It's been an amazing turnaround. And all credit to everybody else except me. [00:41:25] Speaker A: Stop. Talk about the growth of the Wake Forest program. [00:41:29] Speaker B: It's been amazing. It's been amazing. You know, guys that were Friday night starters back then would struggle to make the team. And now. And it's been impressive. And Tom Walter realized it was a unique situation at Wake Forest between what's required scholastically and the amount of resources that you have. You know, he knew that he was going to have to take a different approach. And Dr. Michael Freehill, now out on the west coast, had an idea, along with Tom, that they could do something to get further into it. And Free Hill had played triple A ball, and so he had an idea about the pro game. And so they came idea of a program in conjunction with Wake Forest Baptist, which is still what it is today. And Dr. Kristen Nicholson runs the program and she's unbelievable. [00:42:13] Speaker A: Shout out Dr. Nicholson for the bastard. [00:42:15] Speaker B: Just unbelievable. Fantastic person and just a huge mind. Just a. Just an unbelievable mind. And they've had quality people come in. You know, I'm blessed to say that my mentors in the area of metrics and technology and all that have been have been Matt Hobbs. And then, you know, John Hendricks came in. Corey Muscarra and Chris Federer at Michigan, who we went and saw early on, has just imparted a wealth of ideas he was using before he got the Tigers job. And so those are the guys that taught me how to use this stuff. And that's pretty good. That's pretty good pedigree to get some training from those guys. [00:42:57] Speaker A: You feel like Wake was ahead of the curve on grad transfers. [00:43:02] Speaker B: I think Wake's been ahead of the curve on a Number of things. It's just being able to incorporate it and make it work. And again, that's the crapshoot of it. It's kind of like the draft. You know, you sign an Ethan Conrad and then he hurts his shoulder diving for a ball after 20 some and it's oh, you know. And that's just the way that the ball rolls sometimes in the game of baseball. But I think that they've used a very intelligent both lead both in football and in baseball. I mean you look at a Kobe Turner that comes over from a smaller school and all of a sudden is one of the best defensive linemen in the NFL, you know, and they've used that program well in, in the past and wakes a unique situation. They don't call it workforce for nothing, you know, and, and they don't play around, you know, I remember making bus trips where the academic advisor was on the bus and I'm used to, you know, getting on the bus and all right, road trip, let's go. And guys noses were in their computer and. And everything else and they were serious about it. [00:44:01] Speaker A: I think their staff's done a good job with freshmen too though. Like, I know they've done a good job on transfers, but they've done a good job of bringing some freshmen along that are. [00:44:09] Speaker B: It is and it's got to be the blend. I like everything in baseball. In my estimation, there is no just one thing that is going to make the difference. It's a combination. You know, just even in the delivery, that first half step back maybe is the difference. Do I. Did I go two inches too far? Which threw my turn off, which threw my arm off, which threw my command off. You know, everything is a combination of a lot of different circumstances. And I think that they've done a good job of looking at the overall picture. Terrific training staff continuity I think has been huge. Tom Walters been there 16 years now. Bill Cilento's been with him. They've gone through a small amount of head coaches. Ron Wellman was the athletic director for 27 years because Gene Hooks was the athletic director for 28 years before that. And you know, John Curry stepping in and looks like he's going to have that kind of longevity. So continuity of program I think is huge too. And we used to have that, but today's society doesn't have that. Today's society is what have you done for us recently? And by that I mean 20 minutes ago. [00:45:18] Speaker A: Speaking of that, what are your thoughts on nil and Transfer Portal? [00:45:22] Speaker B: Hate it, basically. I hate the fact more that it's driving good people out of the industry. You know, when you lose a guy like Dave Claussen, the football coach, awake, who says, I used to be 80% football coach and 20% administrator, now I'm 20% football coach and 80% administrator. You know, that's a shame when guys like Benetton leaves at Virginia. One of the great basketball mines. I hate seeing people leave the game like that. And we're seeing too many of them do it. There's no sheriff. There's nobody setting boundaries on anything. And, you know, it always used to be that there wasn't, but we felt like there was a line or that there was be something too egregious, that we kind of think you're doing this, we suspect you're doing that. We don't know for sure. There. There's no. There's no lines any place. And it's just, how far can you push that boundary? [00:46:17] Speaker A: How do you fix it right now? How do you fix it with what's going on? [00:46:20] Speaker B: Got to have some administration that is going to say, these are the rules. You have to abide by the rules or there will be severe penalties. I think we're going to see players getting fines in college baseball. And I suspect there are some people out there right now. Well, I've heard of people that are finding guys for. You missed practice, you didn't do this, you didn't do. And so we're going to take money from you, you know, because we can't sit you, because we're paying you too much to sit you. There was a basketball situation where the coach said, you know, he's passing up that shot, and that's the shot he's paid to make. And it's the truth, you know, so it's. It's an unfortunate situation. Players have all these. And I'm all for the players getting paid. I am all, too. I am getting money because. And for lots of reasons, and I've got no problem. It's gotten way out of line. The Tennessee situation is absurd. And I think we're just. We're in a really dangerous spot. [00:47:18] Speaker A: I just. It just feels like it's going to cannibalize itself at some point, and I hope not. I'm a lifetime fan of college athletics and especially college baseball. Just seems like it might cannibalize itself at some point. [00:47:31] Speaker B: And it's also taken away from, I think, some of the great life lessons that you learn from this beautiful sport. You know, how to deal with what teaches you Better than baseball, how to deal with failure, you know, and when we take away, and we make acceptable failure on a real consistent basis, we take away that drive to compete. And when we say that if you pitch three innings as a starting pitcher, great, you've done your job, where's that extra, you know, where does, where does the intangibles that come into play? Where do you learn those things that make the ultra successful people what they are? [00:48:10] Speaker A: What do coaches at the lower levels, youth, high school, what do they need to hear about coaching pitchers right now? [00:48:18] Speaker B: Oh, great question. Moderation is always going to be in there, you know, guard your players because we know that it's not a natural, it's not a natural thing to throw a baseball, you know, so pay attention to your pitch counts, pay attention to the warning signs that you can see and take care of guys. Use them wisely. You know, you're not going to get a major league managing job because you're a good high school coach. Okay? That's not, that's not the path to the big leagues. And so don't treat every game as. It's as if it's the seventh game of the World Series. To me, the high school, the high school level, the college level, for the most part. And there is a big difference between those two. You know, college coach is paid to win. That's why, that's why he's there. But I've, you know, I've been blessed for the 12 years that I've been doing Wake Forest baseball to have Tom Walter as the guy running the show. And name me anyone better in the country at teaching life lessons than a guy that gave a kidney to a player that's coming in to play for him before he ever played an inning. And they, they just celebrated that with a living donor program night the other night, which was beautiful to see. Kevin Jordan was back in town and, and that's such a great story. But, you know, at the high school level, understand that there are a lot more important things than that Tuesday night game against not even your crosstown rival, but somebody that you're blowing somebody up because you want to win that night. Understand that, that teaching a kid better things about life is more important. [00:49:57] Speaker A: We've talked about maybe rolling pitch counts. I think this is where we run into issues with tournaments early on where they're at maybe 90 to 100 pitch limit for the entire year rather than, okay, first weekend out. It's, it's a 40 to 50 or 30 to 40. [00:50:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:17] Speaker A: And then we're adding 10 pitches every weekend on top of that. I think there's a way to manage that. Do you play four or five inning games early? Like, I think there's a way to maybe manage that where you can get all that to work. But it's going to take somebody to kind of get on board with that where it's like, okay, these, these first weekends of tournaments may only be four or five innings and it's a 30 to 40 pitch count. Like, I think that's a way to alleviate some of the issues too, which is what you see early on in the year. [00:50:48] Speaker B: You also have, you also have to be true to yourself. Wake Forest Mercy, Coastal Carolina. The other night, big, huge win. [00:50:55] Speaker A: That's a big win. [00:50:57] Speaker B: You know, it's a big win. But Coach Snall and Matt Williams, their pitching coach, left two of their best relievers behind. And I asked Matty why and he said because we. And Schnall said, because we didn't trust ourselves to not use them if they came. So we made them stay home in Conway so that they wouldn't be available. Which goes back to that. Hey, Larry, wasn't tonight your bullpen night? You know, and that's what we did in the 70s and then into the 80s. You know, I retired in 88. But that's not the way that you have to do it today because these guys, you know, they throw harder, more, longer. They throw harder, longer, and not necessarily using all the right parts of the body that they should all the time. And so there's more danger there. Plus doctors, you know, we've learned it's manifest. You'll pardon me going off topic just a little bit. It's kind of like we're going through with measles now. We know much more about. And autism. We know much more about it and that's why we're seeing more cases. We know much more about UCLs and labrums than we did in the 70s and 80s. And that's why we're seeing more of it. And there's more money involved at the professional level and at the college level. There's more money involved and there's more doctors involved and there are more agents involved that are saying, you know, the draft is coming up, maybe you need to shut it down at your college level to get ready for your pro level. Which is an absurdity I can't quite wrap my head around. But you know, that's another whole thing too. [00:52:29] Speaker A: I would use some of our weekend guys from midweek game, but that's a seven Day schedule, too, honestly, for competitive purposes, but also command purposes, because I had some guys at Western especially, that their command went through the roof when they were throwing 15 pitches against somebody else for their. For their bullpen day. [00:52:55] Speaker B: And there are all. [00:52:56] Speaker A: But we also weren't overextending guys on the weekends either, right? Like, that's a big. That's a big part of it, too. Like, we weren't. They weren't throwing 120 to 130 pitches on the weekend force. They're going to be around 80 to 90. And then they were. I felt like. And that was maybe in seven years as a head coach, we maybe did it with three. Three pitchers that entire time in seven years. But for those guys, it actually did help them throw more strikes. It did. [00:53:26] Speaker B: Well, I knew I could roll out of bed throwing strikes. [00:53:30] Speaker A: I didn't have the luxury of having guys like that. [00:53:34] Speaker B: We had a saying when I was in Michigan and one of the newspaper guys came up with it. It was Sorensen and Weber and pray for bad weather. Okay? Kind of a revision of the Spawn and saying, and pray for rain. And I've got box scores of pitching complete games on Saturday and Sunday. Back to back, I threw complete games because he would. Moby would say, can you give me a couple to start off? Yeah, I know you went 9 yesterday, but can you give me a couple to start off tomorrow before I bring one of the kids in? I said, yeah, can you give me one more? Can you give me one more? You all right? Can you give me one more? I said, oh, man, it's the 8th. [00:54:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm already here. I might as well just finish it. [00:54:17] Speaker B: I'll give you what I got. I don't know what it's going to. [00:54:20] Speaker A: Be, but what does your preseason prep look like to get ready for football and baseball? [00:54:28] Speaker B: Well, football is going to be interesting this year with Jake Dickard as the new coach away for us, because with Dave Claussen, we had 22 seconds between plays. And I know that Stan Cotton, my. My partner, the voice of the Deeks for the last 30 years, it took him nine seconds to recap a play and eight seconds to prep a play. So I had five seconds to say, that's right, Stan, and that was about it. You know, now with Dicker, we might go the full time, and I may have to actually pretend I know something about football, so that'll be interesting. But then the turnaround was that in baseball, he'd say, low ball one, Larry, and let me have the rest of the time till the next pitch came out. So it's worked out great for a lot of years but it there's getting to know the players nil new coach, a whole new raft of players have come in. I went to practice and I'm going to. This is my day. Today is football practice after this followed by F5 for a few hours before I go over to David F. Couch ballpark for Boston College and Wake Forest. So it's going to be a long, wonderful, wonderful day of sports but a lot of studying. You know, get the magazines out, get the previews, give yourself an idea about what each team is going to do can does likes to do with, with a new coach. It'll be finding out about our program much more so than in years past. [00:55:54] Speaker A: So who's been the best interview for you, coach or player wise that you've ever had? [00:55:59] Speaker B: I tell you, Skip Berkman was a lot of fun back in the day. Skip was great. You know who was really good? Cal Ripken in, in Detroit. See I had to do the pre and post game shows. Roger was very good Clemens and in order to get them to do the post game show we would give him a cheap old watch to you know to here rog, have this $80 watch that we're gonna give you for hiking from the Tigers clubhouse, from the visiting clubhouse at Tiger Stadium, down the tunnel down to the dugout in your shower shoes and gym shorts. And they did it, you know, thankfully they did it. So many great, great people around this game and you know, I was both blessed and cursed. I played for seven different teams in my major league career which is a lot of moving around but it also gave me opportunities to meet a real variety of people in a lot of different places. [00:56:57] Speaker A: Is drinking your fail forward moment or do you have other fail forward moments something you thought was gonna completely set you back but helped you move forward? [00:57:05] Speaker B: Drinking? Yeah, absolutely. [00:57:07] Speaker A: And I give you a lot of credit. A lot of people can't get out of it. I give you a ton of credit. Like a lot of people can't get out of it. Whether it's alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex, like, I mean it all works in the same area on those addictive receptors. So it's a variety of things but I give you a lot of credit because there's a lot of people that haven't been able to get out of it. [00:57:27] Speaker B: Well, knock on wood. 11 years, January 27th this past year. [00:57:32] Speaker A: And is it one day at a time? [00:57:34] Speaker B: One? [00:57:35] Speaker A: Absolutely it is, isn't it? People say it, it's not cliche. It literally is. I'm not going to drink today. [00:57:42] Speaker B: It is. And you know, the opportunities are so available. And when I speak to kids, you know, I try to paint the picture. [00:57:48] Speaker A: That'S not going away. It's all, no, it's gonna be there. [00:57:51] Speaker B: And the other thing that really helped me is our center fielder at the University of Michigan. Mark Gronkowski was an emergency room physician and then went into addiction counseling. And he told me it's also the actual physical side of things that my genes are wired a little bit differently than my sister's. My sister could go and have a half a glass of wine with dinner and put it down and leave it. And I finally reach over and grab it and finish that, then finish the bottle and then go home and start getting serious about it. [00:58:17] Speaker A: If you brain scan an addict and a non addict, those receptor areas are going to look completely different. [00:58:23] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And so you try to explain to kids that it's hereditary and you know, you see it passed down and that you're wired differently but don't really know. And it's easy to fall into that habit. And I'm trying to lose some weight now. And you know, we tried that new shot that's out there to help you lose your appetite. And it does work, but it's really expensive. And I told my wife, I want to stop. [00:58:44] Speaker A: And it's hard to keep that up from a daily habit basis because by the way, eating good food is good for you. Like it is good eating, having proper nutrition is good for you. So yes, that the stopping part. But at some point you're going to have to figure out how to eat right. [00:58:59] Speaker B: Well, and the drinking side of it also helped me say if I did that, I do have the self discipline. I know I have the information, I should have the self discipline. I should be able to do this on my own. And oddly enough, I had my yearly physical yesterday. [00:59:17] Speaker A: How's your blood work? [00:59:19] Speaker B: Chris Miles, who's one of the great teen doctors ever, is my personal physician, a terrific Christian. And he. And we've been friends for a long time. And he said, well, once again, you're a miracle of modern medicine. Because the first time I saw him, he said, larry, if you did half the things you wrote down on your chart, he said, these results are a miracle. And I said, chris, I only wrote down half of what I did because I was too embarrassed to tell you the whole story. And fortunately, you know, fortunately, the man looked out for me. And so I'm healthy. Everything's Good. [00:59:53] Speaker A: And I get blood work done every year, and I sit down in that meeting and they're like, it's great. And I'm like, okay, I get to keep doing what I'm doing, you know, good and bad, you know, what you know. [01:00:05] Speaker B: And the 12 step meetings are a big help. I do a lot of speaking at 12 step meetings, but little things. Give blood. You know, I give blood on a regular basis. My wife is director of quality at a hospital, and so when the blood drives come around, I do that. I'm going to give Monday, I'm going to give platelets because I've got the type of blood. 3% of the people in the world have my type of blood. And so when they do platelets, they really get a lot more use out of it. And so I try to do that on a regular basis. Give back, help somebody else, you know, do something for somebody else will make you feel better about yourself. And feeling better about yourself is. Has been one of the big keys, because I spent too long feeling great about myself for the wrong reasons, if that makes any sense. And. And to feel good about yourself on a daily basis for the right reasons, turns out life's a lot better that way. [01:00:56] Speaker A: How's your golf game? [01:00:58] Speaker B: Oh, it sucks. I'm terrible. [01:00:59] Speaker A: Really? That's surprising for a pitcher. [01:01:02] Speaker B: I, you know, I had it. My golf game has made me a fisherman, is the bottom line. We joined a boat club down in St. Pete here not, not too long ago and played with Ron Wellman and, and Jim Caldwell, the old football coach. And I said, this is just. I'm getting embarrassed when I'm out here right now. And the body hurt a little bit, too, you know, and it was back when it. Back in the time when I wasn't taking good care of myself. And so I gave it up for a while, but I brought the club. Funny you say that. I brought the clubs along this time for probably a reason. I'm going to break them out, wax them all. Stan Cotton is a. Is a very good golfer. Tom called Tom Walter is a very good golfer. [01:01:44] Speaker A: He comes across, he. He's from that business side of life, so he comes across. You can tell before he got into coaching that he'd had to do a couple fundraising rounds on the golf course. [01:01:56] Speaker B: But he also, he also was the oddest golfer I'd ever seen because he would drive right handed, hit his irons left handed and putt right cross back over on the green. And finally he was at Oakmont or someplace, or it might have even Been Augusta. And the caddy said, sir, you notice you've got, you've got some cross handed clubs in your bag. And he said, well yeah, this is what I do. And, and every year he goes on a great golf trip with a bunch of his college buddies. And he said he finally decided to go all one way after, after walking in and having caddies abusing him because of the way that he played. [01:02:32] Speaker A: It doesn't matter what it looks like on the golf course, if it's work and stay with it. [01:02:37] Speaker B: Well, you know, like a lot of anything, you know, it's those adjustments that you've got to make in flight. And talking with Moose the other day, he was talking about reset moments and how he doesn't like the fact that his staff has not been successful after reset moments. And so I said, well, define that for me. And he said, you know, taking the step off the mountain, I saw, I said, I call them thinking moments. If I threw two fastballs in a row that missed and they missed near the same area it was get off the back, take the hat off, wipe sweat, pretend you're thinking and think and say, okay, I just threw two pitches up and in what change do I need to make? I know what I need to do. I need to close my shoulder, which means my, my cue to myself is chin shoulder, you know, close to get on top, to get over, to get back down where I needed to be. And you've got to do that all the time. And I don't see guys making a lot of changes. Pitch clock maybe forces, some of that's. [01:03:31] Speaker A: A big one now I think is, is they just don't have a to time in between pitches now, which can help some guys because it takes some of the thinking out of it. But if you're trying to really grind through it a little bit and I think, I think that's where we get hurt a little bit. But you know that, that faster tempo is the pitcher's advantage, have a huge advantage over the hitters. Although we're still scoring a bunch of runs now. And I think the technology, the bats and balls have a little bit to do with that. It really hasn't hindered offense. You look at the scores out there now like there's, there's some teams putting up some, some gaudy numbers even on weekends. [01:04:09] Speaker B: There's some, the mercy games now, you know, Wake Forest, Mercy's Florida State and then goes in and gets beat up two days out of three by the mercy rule down at, down in North Carolina. And it's hard to understand. You know, it's just, it's, there's a real up and down to the whole thing. But Euchre used to laugh and kid me all the time that he said, he said man, you're killing us with our sponsors. And I said why? He said because we're cutting commercial short and saying, well, Sorensen's ready to go. Or he said Sorensen's 2 and 1, I'm the next hitter. You know, so he used to, he used to bust my chops all the time. [01:04:45] Speaker A: What about becoming a grandparents? Change your perspective on life? [01:04:48] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I'm thrilled to say that my 7 year old grandson is a, is a baseball holic. You know, he's a Mets fan living in Brooklyn, which is terrific. And I've had the chance to go to Mets game with them and play catch with them. He knows the metrics on the Pitch Logic app. And I've got some fantastic pictures of him looking down at my, at my iPad when we're at a, at a park in New York, Prospect park, and, and he's throwing and he throws strikes because from the day that he was two days old and I first saw him, I whispered to him, by the way, strike one is the best pitch in baseball. Someday you'll thank me for this. [01:05:34] Speaker A: Love it. Imprinting. Big time imprinting. Love it. What are some final thoughts before I let you go? [01:05:40] Speaker B: Just baseball. You know, it's still the beauty of the game. Watching a shortstop crossover take a throw and I get to watch Merrick Houston do it every day, you know, at home and watching the double play that's turned and leaping over a runner or, or the catches in the outfield when guys are three feet off the ground, you know, watching the top 10 and seeing what they can do, it gets into your blood and, and you know, until the day that I'm underground, I'll be, I'll be following and watching it, cheering for it. Love the game, love the people, appreciate the effort, appreciate the change. You know, there's a lot of guys that in my era that don't get the whole concept of I can tell you that that ball is 91 to 94. And I said, well, I can tell you it does something different at 93 than it does at 91.2, you know, and so change with the times. I knew I had to either get on the bus or get run over the bus. And baseball has always evolved. You know, they took, I was the highest paid second year player in the game after making the all star team I got a $65,000 raise from. A $60,000 raise from 35 to 95. And the headline was, salaries like this will put baseball out of business. They're still going, all right, to the tune of 700 million-plus. You know, so change. Change with the times. Go with the flow. Love life. [01:07:00] Speaker A: Well, you can credit the best union ever built. Professional baseball. Major League Baseball. Best. Best union ever built. If you want to model a union, model it after the Major League Baseball union, because they're. They're in the position they're in because of that union. They've done an unbelievable job. [01:07:18] Speaker B: No question about that. And Marvin Miller, you know, back in the day, I remember Sal Bando saying, listen to every. And I was an alternate player rapper. And Sal Bano said, listen to everything this guy says, and it will serve you well in life. And the other message Sal gave was pass it on. He said, it's up to us to pass it on. And, you know, hopefully staying involved with the game as long as I have been, some of that's rubbed off a little bit. [01:07:41] Speaker A: Thanks for your time, Larry. Appreciate it. [01:07:43] Speaker B: Always a thrill to see you. [01:07:44] Speaker A: Hopefully. I say you know them all. [01:07:45] Speaker B: Yeah, look forward to it. Let's grab lunch. [01:07:50] Speaker A: I appreciate Larry's willingness to share his story. I hope that it helps someone out there who might be struggling with substance abuse. Remember that you aren't alone in your struggles and as a sign of strength to ask for help. Thanks again to Larry for sharing his story. Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Halen, Matt west, and the ABC office for all the help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via [email protected], twitter, Instagram, or TikTok coachbabca or direct message me via the MyABCA app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off for the American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks. And leave it better for those behind. [01:08:24] Speaker B: You wait for another and the world. [01:08:45] Speaker A: Will always return as your love is. [01:08:50] Speaker B: Never for yearning and you know that. [01:08:55] Speaker A: Way. [01:08:58] Speaker B: Wait for another. [01:09:03] Speaker A: Day.