Kevin Schnall, Associate Head Coach, Coastal Carolina

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the abca's podcast. I'm your host, brian brownlee. This episode is sponsored by Netting Pros. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Netting Professionals specializes in the design, fabrication and installation of custom netting for backstops, batting cages, dugouts, BP screens and ball carts. They also design and install digital graphic wall padding, windscreen, turf, turf protectors, dugout benches, dugout cubbies and more. Netting Professionals is an official partner of the ABCA and continues to provide quality products and services to many high school, college and professional fields, facilities and stadiums throughout the country. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Contact them today at 844-620-2707 or infoettingpros.com, visit them online at www.nettingpros.com or check out Netting Pros on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects. Make sure to let CEO Will Minor know that the ABCA sent you now onto the podcast. On this week's ABCA podcast, we check in with Coastal Carolina Associate Head Coach Kevin Schnall. Schnall's fingerprints are all over the Chanticleers program as A player and 20 years as an assistant coach. In Schnall's 20 seasons, Chanticleers have 15 NCAA Division I regional appearances, 35 All Americans top five winning percentage in Division I baseball, 13 conference tournament champ championships and the 2016 Division I national championship. Chenal spent three seasons from 2013 to 2015 in Central Florida. In this episode we cover recruiting and player development. I have a lot of respect for Coach Schnall and what he's done over the course of his career and so I was excited to have him on. Let's welcome Kevin Schnall to the podcast. Alright, here with Kevin Schnall, Associate Head coach, coastal, I think 20th season now overall as an assistant there. I was trying to do the math because with your stint in there at Central Florida for three seasons, but also alum at Coastal and national champion coach. So Coach Snow, thanks for jumping on with me. [00:02:38] Speaker B: Appreciate having me. Yeah, I'm an old guy now. 23 years coaching, 20th at Coastal. I was at UCF for three years. I'm in that category of an old guy. [00:02:47] Speaker A: Yes, you are. Yeah. So. And you guys are having a great year. First place in the Sun Belt. I've had some really good midweek wins, also some really good opponents, but OPS is over a thousand as a team, which is really good when you're looking at offensive stats. But you know, just talk a little bit because it seems like three years ago maybe wasn't a season you guys wanted, but now you've got older groups, so. And that happens sometimes too with a younger group and you know, you've got a little. Seems like you've got an older group now with your lineup. [00:03:19] Speaker B: Well, actually it's really not. We lost our entire position player group from last year. Last year's team was one win away from advancing to the super regional. We lost our three weekend starters off of last year's team. We lost seven of our nine position players off of last year's team. So this year's team is actually very came into the season very inexperienced, very talented, but very inexperienced. We got a freshman switch it and catcher batting in our three hole. I don't know. Last time we had a freshman bat in our three hole. So with that being said, no, it's actually the opposite. We're very young. We've got an opportunity to potentially return the entire lineup for next year besides two players, our second baseman and our center fielder. So we feel really good about that. And these guys have really bought in. I mean, the offensive numbers. I try not to get too involved in what our numbers are week to week, but you know, I'm not a dummy. I mean, they're pretty impressive. The on base percentage is as good as it's ever been. I mean, it's over.430 as a team. And that's something that we really preach is we want our guys to be obsessed with getting on base. And this group has bought into that at an extremely high level. [00:04:42] Speaker A: How did you handle that this fall then, knowing that maybe we're going to be a little bit inexperienced. Did you change anything with the prep in the fall for them? [00:04:50] Speaker B: Much more difficult fall than the fall of last year when we had a ton of returning players this fall. Yeah, the install took much more time. The daily grind, the daily development of our team offense, of our team defense just took much more time. I mean, last year we returned a lot of position players from the previous year, you know, so we didn't have to go over team defenses, team concepts and our offensive concepts as much. This year we spent much more time with those concepts. We spent much more time with video review to show those concepts. So yes, it took a lot more planning, preparation and then, you know, our daily design was very intentional to make sure that we were continually reviewing and reminding our players of again, not only our offensive concepts, but our defensive concepts. [00:05:53] Speaker A: Kind of knowing that you might start a freshman behind the dish. How do you go about That I feel like that's the hardest position for a position player to come in as a freshman and play a lot is behind the dish. Did you do anything different with him to try to get him ready? [00:06:10] Speaker B: Patient. And that's not my forte is patience. Very patient. But Kaden Bodine is the most advanced catcher that I've ever had an opportunity to coach in my 23 years. He's intelligent, he's poised, he's not too emotional. Again, if this guy's trajectory stays on course. I don't say this often, but I'd like to see a better catcher in the country than this guy. [00:06:43] Speaker A: Love it. Love it. Has he had any ups or downs so far? I mean, it seems like he's having a great year, but he got hurt [00:06:51] Speaker B: so he had to sit out for about a week. He got a concussion at Clemson, so he did have to sit out a week. We missed him, but basically he got inserted back into the lineup on Friday night at Old Dominion. Last week, in his first at bat, he hits a home run right handed. You know, he ended up hitting a home run right handed and left handed at Old Dominion. But man, he's just been so consistent. He's really embrace the on base. I mean, his walks are extremely high. He's got very low strikeouts. I think he has 10 strikeouts on the entire year. He's got over 20 frees again. I mean, with the analytics in today's world, you put his skill set combined with his analytics. If things continue to progress, I'd like to see a better guy in the country than this guy. [00:07:47] Speaker A: How the additions been to the league now you added some teams as a Sunbelt, correct? [00:07:51] Speaker B: Yep, yep. We just played Southern Miss this past week, who's extremely well coached, extremely talented. We played JMU early in the year. Coach Eikenberry does a great job. It was a little different for us. It was cold up there. But we've got Marshall here at the end of the year. We played Old Dominion last weekend. You know, Finney and his staff do a great job. They've got a really good team. They're physical, they've got power. The league's challenging. I mean, every single weekend. It's extremely difficult. You've got to prepare and you can't really, you know, ride those ups and downs. You got to stay very under control each and every week. And we've been fortunate. We're 10 weeks in. We haven't lost the weekend series yet. You know, that's pretty remarkable consistency for me. [00:08:40] Speaker A: It's a. It's a Power 5 conference. It is for baseball. I mean, I know people don't consider it that, but I do just look in the teams in the league, like that's a. That's a Power 5 league. [00:08:51] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I don't get involved in the whole Power 5 this, the Power 5 that I know at Coastal Carolina, you know, our. The commitment here is at the extreme highest level, you know, and we're fortunate. We've got great leadership. Our administration backs baseball at the extreme highest level. And, you know, the amenities, the resources we have are on par with anybody in the country. [00:09:16] Speaker A: And your non conference schedule speaks to that every year. I mean, is that by design for you guys or is just because of geographically and then hosting tournaments too for you guys? [00:09:26] Speaker B: Well, you know, Coach Gilmour is the mastermind of the scheduling. You know, it goes back years ago. Our athletic director, Matt Hogue and him, you know, it was like they sat behind a computer. I don't think Gilly had the computer. Matt had the computer, but they sat behind a computer. They dove into scheduling. Matt Hogue, again, our athletic director back in the day, heck, when I played here, he was our Sid. He understands the landscape of college baseball as well as anybody in the country. So I think he played a very critical role in helping Gilly understand the importance of scheduling. It started with a lot of different tournaments that we scheduled early in the year. We've kind of eliminated a couple of those tournaments. And a lot of that is, you know, the Big south compared, you know, to the Sun Belt, the Sunbelt conference is the fifth best ranked, you know, fifth highest ranked conference in the country now. So we're getting so much more back from our conference weekends now where we can be a little bit, you know, look at those weekends early, those five weekends early, and be a little bit more creative and maybe not have to do as many tournaments, but we're still doing tournaments. And again, that combo between Gillian and Matt Hogue, you know, they've done a great job of really dissecting and understanding the importance of the non conference scheduling. [00:10:52] Speaker A: Has technology made recruiting easier or harder now? [00:10:56] Speaker B: Well, easier for the lazy, I would say, harder for the people that, you know, like to get out and really use their eyes and see kids. It's much harder to, you know, find that kid that maybe nobody knows about or whatnot. But also I think it's, you know, hurt people. You know, some people are still, you know, recruiting with their ears more so than their eyes. And, you know, there's a lot to being out there and seeing a kid play on the field versus, you know, just watching video. But, you know, the technology, you know, it just. It creates much more time. The amount of emails, text messages, I mean, the amount of summer coaches there are in today's world from when you were coaching is probably, you know, doubled, if not tripled, the amount of text message I get from random people about, you know, the 32 players that they have that can play at Coastal Carolina that, you know, you know, we have to kind of sift through. It just makes much more life much more challenging when you're just trying to have a dinner with your family. [00:12:04] Speaker A: Has that changed for you at all? I mean, it seems like you guys have always kind of branched out. It looks like you got 16 or 17 different states represented on your roster. And I think that's something you guys have been doing for a long time, isn't it? [00:12:16] Speaker B: 17 states right now represent our roster. I think yesterday's lineup, you know, we had like, yesterday's starting nine. We had six different states represented. I was actually looking out there at the national anthem. Like, our left side of the infield was two PA Kids. Our catcher was a New Jersey kid. Our center fielder was a PA kid. It's not by design. I mean, we want to work from inside to out this incoming class. We have much more in state kids, which is awesome. We want South Carolinians to come to Coastal, but at the end of the day, we're. Our motto is we're never going to settle for the next best player. So if a kid wants to go to an in state school, and he values that in state school more than Coastal Carolina, which I don't know how you could. I know I'm biased, but that's great. No problem. No hard feelings. We'll go out and find the next player that we feel has the energy, has the skill set to continue to push this program to where it needs to be. We've got extremely high standards, and those standards we're going to meet each and every year. And if that means we got to get on a plane or drive a couple more hours, then we'll do it. [00:13:31] Speaker A: I've seen you at random tournaments in Wisconsin. [00:13:35] Speaker B: Random, is it? [00:13:36] Speaker A: Hey, how long did it take you to figure that piece out? Because it seems like you've always had that. You know, you and I are very similar for getting on the road and watching, and you and I are very similar in our beliefs and how you need recruit. Did you have that? Did Gilly help you with that? Or is that something that You? [00:13:52] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it was a full staff deal. I'm originally from New Jersey. We've got seven New Jersey kids on our current roster. Northeast kids at times look at Coastal Carolina when they come down here and see it. I say this in the recruiting process. Like, if you come to our campus and you spend time here and you get a scholarship offer from us and you don't feel like you've died and gone to heaven, then this is the wrong spot for you. This place is that special. This place is that nice. The amenities we have now, the stadium we have now is on par with anybody in the entire country. You know, if that's not what a kid wants, then this isn't the right place. And, you know, a place like Coastal Carolina, you better really love the game because we feel like we are going to work as hard as anybody in the country. Nobody in the country is going to outwork us. There's going to be teams in the country that work as hard as we do, but nobody's going to outwork us. So it does take a special kid to understand the overall commitment it takes to play at Coastal Carolina. [00:15:01] Speaker A: And you speak as a former player, too. I mean, like, you lived it as a player, now you're living it as a coach with the program. [00:15:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, no doubt. You know, I've watched this program, you know, start from, you know, 1998, when I think that was what Gilly's like, second year back to where it is now. I mean, thankfully he's evolved. We've all evolved. I mean, when I was a player, we did 10 poles before practice. That's unheard of today. Like, you'd go to jail for. For five years if you did that. But we did 10 time polls, you know, before we even started practice, you know, and then we practice, you know, nowadays it's like everyone's got the catapult on and they got the whoop on and you got to be careful with how many swings they get and how much they're moving so they can play at a high level. But again, we got great strength and conditioning. Coach Michael Thompson is here in his first year and he's really, you know, done some tremendous things. So not banging on that. We're fortunate. We've got huge resources and our strength and conditioning has helped our program to where it is today and helped us remain so consistent throughout the years. [00:16:17] Speaker A: Are there anything you guys have held onto from the old days? Anything you're still keeping around? [00:16:24] Speaker B: Yeah, we still have a lot of that old school. But the truth Is, you know, and it starts with Gilly. And, you know, you got to compliment him on this. I mean, we're constantly evolving. We are constantly in staff meetings discussing what can we do differently, what can we do better? You know, we're never using the old adage of, this is how we've always done it, even though we've done a lot of things at a high level. And we're very proud of that. You know, you've mentioned it earlier. I mean, we won the national championship at coastal Carolina in 2016. It's something that, you know, you'll never forget. It's the single most unbelievable thing that happened to me on the baseball field. But, you know, in a lot of ways, our relentless consistency, you know, we've got the fifth best winning percentage in the entire country since 2001. In a lot of ways, we're just as or more proud of that than just winning the national championship. And that relentless consistency is all about continuing to evolve and continuing to reflect, evaluate ourselves. What can we constantly do better to make. Put our players in a better position to be successful. [00:17:35] Speaker A: Did you feel much different after you won the national championship? [00:17:40] Speaker B: I feel much different. I still. At times, you gotta pinch myself and look at the trophy to believe it happened. I still go back and, you know, in the off season, I'll watch a game here or there from that. From that journey. I don't feel better. No. I feel like, you know, like Nick Saban always says, man, you gotta get ready for the next season. Cause it's on you quick. And this game will humble you very quickly. So, like, as proud as you feel like, you gotta wipe off the sweat and get back after it. Because this game will kick you really quickly if you're not continuing to move forward, if you're not continuing to work. There's so many programs out there now that are so committed at such a high level, working extremely hard, you just can't take a day off or you'll take a big step back. So, yeah, we were very proud. But you got to get back on the horse and get going, because the new season's already here. [00:18:45] Speaker A: Do you think that happens if you don't go to Central Florida? [00:18:50] Speaker B: Well, I'm not taking the. I'm not taking the credit for us winning a national championship. I was at the right place at the right time. We had a great group of players that were extremely talented, but what separate that team was, you know, that team was, you know, relentless and selfless in so many ways. And that team was the epitome of, you know, drop an eye in me for we and us. And just so many things fell in place. There was a lot of adversity in that year and people embraced the adversity and. And then we got on a roll. And when we got on a roll, that team just, you know, they didn't want to stop playing with each other. And it, you know, it was just contagious. [00:19:30] Speaker A: I mean, what was the good thing about going to Central Florida for a little bit? Because, I mean, again, it kind of breaks up, you know. You know, you're an alum and I think it's hard for especially assistants to stay somewhere for that long, you know. Was that a good break in between there and then coming back? [00:19:48] Speaker B: No, it was a little risky for me professionally. I don't like to talk about me, but for the first time in my coaching career, I did have to look at me. And I was at Coastal for 12 years. I played at Coastal. All I knew was Coastal. And that opportunity came up and, you know, I just felt like I need to see a different system. I need to work for a different person. And, you know, Terry Rooney, I learned a lot from him, especially organizationally in the office, behind the scenes, you know, he's very thorough, very organized, very detail oriented. So I learned a lot in that aspect. And truth be told, I got lucky to be able to come back here and be able to apply what I learned. It was almost like a three year sabbatical and be able to come back here and then apply what I learned at ucf. Yeah, I think I did. I think I grew in a lot of ways. And I'm using the I word a lot, which I don't like to use. But, you know, for myself, it was such a great development. It was very tough on my family to move down to Florida, you know, but when Coach Gilmore called me and offered me an opportunity to come back, it was so special. It was an easy decision. I've been back ever since. We love it here. There's no other place I'd rather be. [00:21:19] Speaker A: Can you develop an elite mindset as a coach or a player, or do you feel like that's an innate thing with the mindset? [00:21:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you can develop that. I think that comes back to consistency. You've got to be really consistent day in and day out. And as a coaching staff, you have to model that mindset if you want your players to have it. And, you know, if your staff is consistent with their messaging on a daily basis, they're consistent with their energy level on a daily basis. If your staff is consistent with their expectations and demands on a daily basis, I think, you know, ultimately your players will buy into that. [00:22:01] Speaker A: And you talked about having to do a little bit more this fall from a teaching standpoint. And I think your program, I think you guys do as good a job of developing guys as there is out there. Just how you run things, you know, just kind of go over, you know, you've got some new kids that you're going to have to get ready to go just kind of go over from a hitting standpoint, you know, where you're starting with them, teaching them your guys drills because, you know, what you guys do is probably different than what they've had before they got there. So just go into a little bit like how you're breaking that down for them. [00:22:33] Speaker B: Yeah, well, the way we are, our falls are typically designed is, you know, we'll do our individual period for about three weeks, then we go into our five week team period and then we'll slide back into that individual period. So those first three weeks, you know, and this is not a one man show. I want to make sure that this is, you know, pretty clear. I mean, Matt Schilling, our other assistant, and I spearhead the offense together. Coach Gilmore, you know, he throws a lot of batting practice. He does a lot of the short game work. So, you know, there's a lot of times where our practice is designed where, you know, half of the offensive players are in the cages with Coach Schill and I, half of them are on the field with Coach Gilmore, you know, and Coach Gilmore could be, you know, installing all short game stuff on the field that day where SHIELD and I, you know, are doing more swing design stuff. And when I say swing design, I mean it's not, you know, every swing. We're not changing somebody's mechanics in a lot of ways. I mean, our cage routine is very consistent. You know, we're hitting right handed breaking balls, we're hitting left handed breaking balls, where we've got pitch recognition cage where, you know, fastball change up. We've got a cage where we're just isolating location and it's kind of like target bp. Well, it's a fastball way. Your goal is to hit the ball here, it's a fastball and your goal is to hit the ball there. And one thing I've learned as I've kind of matured is less talk is better. You know, when I was a little bit younger, I was probably talking too much. I'm Talking much less now than I ever have. Let the drills kind of do the talking. We'll talk prior to the drills to kind of go over expectations and the plan goals. We'll also do a lot of video. We'll send out video to help show, okay, this is what we were exactly talking about today, whatever it may be, a contact point, a guy driving the ball opposite field. What does he look like? What does his body look like? How is he moving? But I mean, the same things that we were taught when we were younger. I mean, we want our guys to be short to the ball. We want our guys to have short swings, to be able to make later decisions. And our whole offense is about team offense. And like I said, it's about guys believing in the importance of getting on base. And that's probably the hardest thing to do with young players. You know, even when the recruiting process and I'm talking to our recruits and they're telling me I'm not getting a lot to hit, I'm walking a lot. That's good. You know, you go to a lot of these showcases or you go to these tournaments and a kid walks and everybody's upset. You know, a walk is a good thing. And it takes time for players that come into our program for the first year to realize the importance of drawing a walk, understand the importance of getting hit by a pitch and just getting on base. And we use, you know, the saying, we want guys that are obsessed with getting on base. So that's probably the biggest thing that we're doing, is developing the team offensive concept, not your individual, you know, what you're doing individually, understanding the importance of the team offensive concept. Right. We talk a lot about quality at bats. What do quality at bats mean to us, and then just being consistent with that each and every day. [00:26:22] Speaker A: When you're explaining what a short swing means to them, how are you explaining that and how are you getting them to feel that short swing? [00:26:30] Speaker B: That's a good question. A lot of kids, they want to swing the bat using their arms. They want to swing the bat, they want to get extension for us. We want guys to be able to sync their body up properly, where everything's working together, not independently. So we do a lot of stuff that get them to feel the swing being over sooner rather than later. We get them to do a lot of things where they can start understanding that extension is a byproduct of a good swing. We want them to stay tight with their turn, tight with their arms, and again, it comes back to getting their Body to move properly, where their body is working together versus independently. [00:27:24] Speaker A: You're using video examples for that too? [00:27:28] Speaker B: A lot of video, yep. [00:27:30] Speaker A: Big leaguers, college hitters. [00:27:32] Speaker B: Well, we got some good hitters, so we use a lot of our hitters. You know, we use a lot of our hitters. You know, we had a first rounder last year, Eric Brown, who, you know, it was awesome to watch his development through the years. I mean, what his swing looked like when he first got into our program and what he thought a high level swing was supposed to look like compared to what an actual high level swing is. And that mindset development was awesome. From the day he walked into the day he left as a first rounder, he obviously put together some really good swings last year. We like to use a combination of guys in our program, guys that have had great success in our program and then obviously guys that they watch on TV that they love and try to, you know, combo that and provide that. But we do a lot of video. Again, it's not always just swing mechanics. A lot of it is approach too. But we'll send out clips to our players of different things that we have. Could be team defense concept, it could be a, you know, a rotation on a ball in the gap in a tandem relay and just show them alignment, show them movements. You know, these kids, they live by the phone, that's all they do is watch video now. So, you know, we try to hit them with so many different opportunities to learn. And so, you know, we'll definitely utilize, you know, technology and video analysis for our guys to get a better look of what we're saying that day. [00:29:08] Speaker A: And knowing that when you bring a kid in, they're going to have to make some adjustments. When you're going to watch either a high school kid or transfer, what makes you say, hey, okay, they can fit offensively for us or that's not going to fit for us. [00:29:27] Speaker B: I wish there was an exact answer to that. There really isn't. I mean, a junior college kid, we are going by stats, we're going by, you know, the information that we get back from their coach, from coaches they're playing against. And then when we go see them, you know, how are they moving to swing? But we do not go with well, we're not going to change anything until they fail. We really believe like there's a way to move to swing the bat. You know, it doesn't matter who you are and at the end of the day, like the best in the world are doing the same thing. So you Know, we're trying to get every hitter from day one to move more efficiently. Again, we're not going to day one, have them come in and we realize, like, that's a low level swing. Let's wait until he fails. No, we're trying to tighten that swing up day one. We're trying to make him much more efficient with how he launches the barrel from day one. We're not going to wait. But in your initial question, I mean, in the recruiting process, I mean, when you go see a kid, I mean, what is his approach? Does he swing and miss a lot when he hits the ball, does he hit the ball hard? And that's really our offensive approach. We want to hit strikes hard, swing at strikes, and if you swing at him, you want to hit them hard. So again, when I'm evaluating a kid, does he hit the ball hard? Does he swing at strikes? And then you kind of build off of that. But swing at strikes is a big thing for us. I mean, we talk a lot about eliminate chases. We show a lot of video of, you know, different guys and different counts and pitches they either take and or swing at. We have a great video system and we encourage our players to watch all their at bats and we talk a lot about, you know, a lot of your at bats are dictated by the pitches you don't swing at, not the pitches you do swing at. And obviously it's so important to try to keep yourself in leverage counts. [00:31:43] Speaker A: With Brown's development, I mean, what were the things he changed over the course of his career? [00:31:49] Speaker B: Mindset, belief. That guy's a crazy athlete. You know, I mean, he does things that I think we got him. I think we got him because people didn't value. I mean, he would field ground balls in between innings and go between his legs, you know, and some people look at that as a negative. We, we look, we embraced it and looked at it as like, we don't have one guy on our team that can do that. You know, I mean, he's throwing from the, the craziest arm slots you've ever seen. The body control, the athleticism was superior. And don't get me wrong, there was times where we had to say, man, stop going between the legs. But we did give him a lot of freedom. And again, that goes back to Coach Gilmore. I mean, Coach Gilmore 20 years ago wasn't going into that stuff. Now he gives guys much more freedom. We give guys much more freedom. Eric Brown was a freak athlete. It was just about kind of tightening up his movements. [00:32:53] Speaker A: It gets you Excited as a coach, though, when you see an athlete like that and you know what you're gonna be able to do with them when they show up on campus. [00:33:01] Speaker B: It was. And again, I mean, part of it, it was luck. I mean, we were, we were in Lake Point and we were watching another kid and this Louisiana team's playing. I don't think we've had a player from Louisiana. This Louisiana team's playing and Eric Brown is playing third base. And we're like, who is this guy? The whole team's committed besides him. And we're like, are we missing something? And we sat on him for three more games and like everybody on the staff with, you know, myself and two other assistants down at Lake Point and everybody on the staff had their palms up like, I don't know, but I'm all in. And again, he threw from the craziest arm slots and every ball was chest high and he just did things that you just didn't see. And we were all in. And we're so lucky we got him. He's a great player for us. Three years and like I said, I mean, this guy goes non drafted out of high school and he comes to Coastal and he's a first rounder and he signs for $2 million and he's in the brewers organization and he's going to be a major leaguer. [00:34:09] Speaker A: With the new recruiting rules going in, do you think that's going to come back a little bit where a kid that maybe develops later in the positive develops later? Do you feel like that's going to change things or do you feel like it's always going to be the way it is? [00:34:24] Speaker B: I hope so. I'm looking forward to it, I can tell you that. I think it's really, really good for so many people. And honestly, I think it's really good for high school coaches. I felt so bad for high school coaches the last five, whatever it's been five, eight years where this early recruiting has gotten really out of hand. And honestly, it put, in my opinion, put high school coaches in a really tough situation because they've got freshmen in their program that are committed to these Power 5 programs, as you talk about. And the high school coach doesn't even think he should start on varsity, but he's almost obligated to put this guy on varsity because he's committed to x top 25 program. And I just felt like, you know, we were putting high school coaches in really bad situations. We, as coaches, we weren't evaluating. I mean, we were guessing. And you Know, you go see a freshman in high school who's bigger than everybody else, stronger than everybody else, and he hits a ball, you know, 300 and some feet or he throws a ball 87 miles an hour and we're saying we're all in. And it wasn't evaluating. I think it took out, you know, back in the day, man, the best coaches or the best recruiters were the best evaluators because you had to evaluate. Now it's like an average evaluator. You get the commitment and then you reevaluate for the next two years. And if he doesn't pan out, you get rid of them. I'm hoping that's going to eliminate a lot of that. [00:36:05] Speaker A: I mean, how long did it take you to figure out that, okay, I can evaluate? [00:36:11] Speaker B: Well, you know what it was, it was all the consistency of being at Coastal for 12 years and watching us win at the level that we won at from 2001 and 2012. We won at such a high level. And I mean, if I had any advice for young guys, this would be. It is, you know, if you're jumping around from job to job, you could be a great coach. But it's all about assembling and watching your classes work through the program. And do those classes pan out. You know, you're at a place for, you know, one, two years and you're doing all this recruiting. You, you never know what were the recruiting classes like? Did they pan out? And it's not about what your recruiting class is ranked, it's about assembling. And that's something I really learned from, from Gilly was, you know, it's not about just putting together and recruiting all the best players. It's about assembling the right team. And, you know, that helped me gain confidence to be able to watch recruiting classes come in, go four years through and us have the consistency and success that we had. [00:37:34] Speaker A: I mean, with your recruiting philosophy, is it, Is it still up the middle? Recruit the best athletes we can and then figure out where they're going to be when they show up. [00:37:44] Speaker B: You know, coaches text me all the time, you know, or email me, hey, coach, what are your needs in the blank class? And I'm not trying to be a smart ass when I say this, but good players, just a good baseball player, like, I don't know exactly what the need is, but every recruiting class needs good baseball players. What do you mean by a good baseball player? Well, a guy that when the ball gets thrown to him, he catches it. When he catches it, and throws it to somebody, they catch it. [00:38:17] Speaker A: Does he help your team win and then does he. [00:38:19] Speaker B: Well, that helps your team win, right? Guys that can play catch. Yes, that helps your team win. [00:38:25] Speaker A: I mean a good player, a guy that actually helps you win games and hopefully win championships. [00:38:31] Speaker B: I don't care. [00:38:32] Speaker A: That guy on your roster then. Okay, let's, let's talk about that kid that you feel like is going to help you win a state championship. [00:38:38] Speaker B: Nobody wants to give me that anymore. They want to tell me what his exit velo off the tee is in the cage. And I don't know what that means. So I just shake my head and say, thank you very much. Send me your schedule. You know, it's just the exit velocity in the batting cage off of a tee or a pitcher. You know, I get the tweet sent to me of the pitcher in the batting cage throwing the ball to a net and he hits 88 miles an hour and I get the, you know, the shot of 88. I need to see it with the guy. There's got to be a catcher behind home plate and then a guy behind the catcher, that umpire, that's important. And then a guy in the batter's box, that's important. Then. Oh, there might be a guy at first because your third baseman overthrows the first baseman. So now you got to maybe handle the running game a little bit and pitch to a hitter with a man at first. So like all of that goes into it. Sometimes we forget that, you know, when, [00:39:35] Speaker A: when you're again, you got young catchers. So are you letting him call pitches at all? Are you guys calling pitches for him? [00:39:42] Speaker B: We call the games. [00:39:44] Speaker A: When's the last time you let catchers run a run a game? [00:39:49] Speaker B: Not a thing anymore. [00:39:50] Speaker A: But it's not reversely. [00:39:52] Speaker B: No, it's not. But reversely. I also say this is. Nobody's getting caught up to the major leagues because, man, he calls a really good game, right? Like, what pro scout ever drafted a catcher and said, well, we're drafting him because he calls his own game, right? Like, no, we're drafting him because his skill set, he receives, he throws, he blocks and he hits at a really high level. Like you can argue if he's calling the game or not. Is it a good, is it a well called game or not? So I think that is kind of blown up a little bit now with catchers should call their own game. You're stunting their growth. What do you mean? There's something nobody's got drafted because they called their own game Nobody's got caught up to the major leagues because they called their own game. And for us as coaches and at the collegiate level, our players are student athletes. So like we have an opportunity to, you know, learn more about our opposing teams than our catcher does. So I mean, we're going to bank on our pitching coach and the pre work he does for our opponent that he's going to be able to make a better suggestion with that pitch than our catcher who doesn't have the same amount of time. [00:41:09] Speaker A: You guys still run as much as you normally do, stealing bases wise? [00:41:13] Speaker B: Yeah, we do want to steal bases. I mean, we want to develop an offense. You know, we say this all the team time. We want to develop an offense that can beat you in multiple ways. If it's a rainy cold day versus a really good arm that, you know the ball's not going to go out of the park, well, how can we beat this guy? And he doesn't control the running game well. So we need to build a steel bases and you know, it's a really good arm on a wet day and he doesn't get off the mound very well. So we've got to use our short game. So yes, we want to develop an offense that can win multiple ways and you know, we obviously still want to have power, we want to have speed, but we also want to be able to handle the short game and do the little things. But yes, we still steal bases. We've got one guy with over 20 this year. I think we have upper 50 stolen bases. On the year we play Louisiana this weekend, it's amazing. They've got over 100 stolen bases already. So that's going to be a big challenge for us. And that's something we pride ourselves on is defensively is controlling the running game. But stealing bases is a part of our offense. Absolutely. [00:42:29] Speaker A: And that helps your catchers too because you guys do run and fall ball. Right? [00:42:35] Speaker B: Helps our pitchers. We've got two, in my opinion, two elite catchers this year. We're fortunate. We got two very good catchers. Two catchers that I would put up against anybody in the country. So we're okay there with what their release time is and their throwing accuracy. You know, the key is, is our pitching staff, but our pitching staff, you know, come fall, we do steal a lot in the fall because we want to, you know, make our pitchers make our catchers or middle infielders uncomfortable in the fall. So then when we do play teams like Louisiana, hopefully we're more prepared for when they do run you still having [00:43:16] Speaker A: catchers throw to bases every day? [00:43:18] Speaker B: Every day, yeah. I mean, you know, we throw the bases through our pro, our throwing program. Now during the spring, we tone it down a little bit because we're playing so much, but in the fall, we'll get loose. Our catchers, people cringe about this because it's kind of an old school, but our catchers actually throw in from the dugout on our turf area. And then when they get to a certain point, they just go to the field and they're throwing between second and home just to kind of for that touch and feel. Every Thursday, our catchers throw the bases live. So if we're at home before a weekend series and or on the road, we're throwing the bases live. And we're never throwing off of a coach pitch arm. So everything's off of a machine. Much more game. Like, we probably throw more curveballs to bases than we do fastballs, which is very similar to what will happen in a game. You know, most teams are trying to run in, you know, off speed counts. So we're going to throw more curveball throw, you know, and exchange more curveballs than we are fastballs or breaking balls. But yes, throwing the bases for us is very important. Again, just getting your body in sync and working on your accuracy and getting that release point and that feel. [00:44:38] Speaker A: And you talked about short game too, because I think you guys have a little bit of a unique style, especially with the sack bunts. Are you guys still deeper in the box on your sacks? [00:44:46] Speaker B: Yeah, we don't move up in our bunting. We don't move up in our bunting, but we bunt a lot. We do bunt a lot. Every day. We're doing some short, some sort of short game, but that doesn't mean that we are sacrificing as much as we have in the past. I got my stats right here. We got 20 sacks on the year. Opponents have attempted 10 versus us this year. So our sack bunny is actually down. But we've got 73 home runs as a team too. So, you know, it's a combination. It's, you know, who's in the box. You know, I can tell you when, you know, some of our guys come up. I mean, Kaden Bodine being one a freshman in the three hole, if it's first and second and no outs, I'm just telling you now, he's not bunting, he's not bunting. We have confidence now. He's hit it in the five ground ball double plays, but we have Confidence in his approach and what he can do that, you know, he's got a chance to really open up an inning with a quality at bat. [00:45:52] Speaker A: And that's part of good coaching. Right. Okay. This is what our lineup is this year. We don't have to maybe do some of the things historically that we've done because we have a little bit different personnel this year. [00:46:01] Speaker B: Exactly. That's. That's adjusting to your lineup and your personnel. And we have done that this year. I mean, coming into the year, we were very inexperienced. Derek Bender is another guy that comes to mind. Derek Bender is having an awesome year. I think he had 30 at bats last year as a freshman. He's a sophomore now. He's got 14 home runs. He's doing a great job too. He's got less than 20 strikeouts on the year. You know, for a guy that has that power combination to strike out as little as he has, you know, he's a very dangerous weapon too. So, no, we've evolved. And again, going into the year, we weren't exactly sure of where our offense would be because, you know, on paper we didn't have, you know, the statistics to back up. Well, this guy's hit 10 home runs before and this guy's done this. We knew we were talented. We just didn't know exactly what the [00:46:59] Speaker A: production would be with a freshman like that. So, you know, how do you temper their expectations where, okay, you know, getting 30 at bats as a freshman, somebody from the outside looking in that's not at the college level doesn't understand that that's a positive for him to get those 30 at bats in to then be an everyday players as a sophomore. [00:47:20] Speaker B: Well, it was patience, just being patient. We had. Derek is a catcher. We've moved him over to first a little bit too. We had two catchers ahead of him last year. Now, he did catch some for us last year. We had two catchers ahead of him last year, you know, and the truth is we had some older guys. We did well last year in the portal with some position players, so we brought in some older position players. We brought in a first baseman, a second baseman and a center fielder. So it was just tough for him to get a lineup. And last year he was a freshman. He chased a little bit out of the zone, but to his credit, he went off this summer, had a really nice summer, did a really good job with his nutrition. He's cleaned up his body. And we always knew, I mean, he's a former Chanticleer camper from New York. His Parents moved down here his senior year in high school. They live in Myrtle Beach. They love Myrtle Beach. But, you know, we knew from camp, like, this guy's got a chance to have real power. And it's starting to really show now. And, you know, he's just overall has matured as a player. And a lot of that is just, you know, him having patience and us having patience. [00:48:37] Speaker A: When do you have that conversation with him, like, okay, this summer I want you to check all these things off. So when you're back for the fall, these are the things that we'd like to see you get better at. [00:48:48] Speaker B: Yeah. At the end of the year, before he left, you know, we showed him on paper, like, we just had a 39 win season. We were one game away from advancing to the super regional. You had 30 at bats. But here's all the home runs we're losing, here's all the players we're losing. It's really important that your summer is a summer of a lot of focus, extremely hard work, and our expectation is you to come back in the fall with the mindset of you're going to hit in the middle of our order. [00:49:28] Speaker A: You still coaching first base? [00:49:30] Speaker B: Third base. Now we're at third base, but I missed. [00:49:34] Speaker A: Was that due to the year that Gilly was sick? [00:49:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And then Gilly kind of got out of the rhythm at third, and now he just. He's happy in the dugout. [00:49:45] Speaker A: You and Wake Forest both. Because Bill's coaching third now, too. [00:49:49] Speaker B: Is that right? Yep. So he's in the dugout now. You know, again, I do miss first because I looked at first. Like, you can impact the game in a lot of ways at a higher level than you can at third. And I'm kind of hard on our first base coaches. I was over there for 20 years, you know, and things come up and I'm like, hey, man, like, you got to run the base for him. Like, don't expect him to do it. Like, you have to basically have instincts. Like, you are running the base. Like, verbally you're running the base for him. Don't expect him to know what he's doing on a tag up. Or like, for me, it's like constantly reminding, hey, expect a dirt ball right here. Expect a dirt. Like when we miss dirt balls and I'm a first base coach, like, it was like 60% on me, 40% on him. Like, I'm not doing a good enough job reminding him of this dirt ball. Or, you know, if we missed a tag up, you know, in a First and third situation or whatever, where, you know, our mentality at first, you know, we want to tag up if the ball is high, deep and comfortable, if there's a man at third, if it's routine, you know, if we miss a tag up in that situation, like, I feel like that was on me. You know, in Omaha, we. We triple tagged versus Texas Tech, and then we double tagged versus TCU in a big situation. First and third double tag with two outs. Our next guy hits a ground rule double, you know, and he didn't, he doesn't score if we don't double tag in that situation. So, like, there were some runs that we were able to get in Omaha, you know, in that little journey we had to win that national championship that, you know, in the scorebook, you don't really see it, but, you know, those little base running things make a big difference. [00:51:41] Speaker A: Yeah. And that was in your Garden State clinic, which is good, because I thought that was a unique talk that you don't normally see. I thought you did a really good job of presenting on situations and a ton of video footage. But, you know, go over that a little bit because that's not an easy thing for kids. A lot of kids don't work on base running before they show up. Just talk about trying to get kids acclimated to the base running and decision making. Because everybody says baseball's slow. Baseball's a really fast spot sport from a decision making standpoint. Like, you have to be able to make decisions on the fly extremely quick. But just go over a little bit of that presentation because I thought it was fascinating. [00:52:19] Speaker B: Here's the thing. I think I'm so adamant about base running now because I was such a bad base runner. I was a catcher, right? So I'm a catcher. You get on base, they take you off, right? You're in high school, you're out. Yeah. This is speed up rule. You're off. I'm great with it. Heck, I go in, get a drink of water and put my gear on. Then I got to college. Juco, same thing, speed up rule. Then I come to Coastal. Now I'm base running. I don't know what I'm doing out there for two years. And when I reflect back, I'm thinking all we ever did to base run, for the most part, was steel bases. So we work on our steel brakes. I wasn't stealing any bases, right? That was fun working on steel brakes, but I wasn't stealing any bases. And then from a conditioning standpoint, we would. Do you know what Everybody does the four group base running circuit, right? So you're at first base and you're running a double and you're at. Or you're at home plate, you're running a double, you're at first base, you're running first to third, you're at second, you're scoring on a base hit, you're at third, you're tagging up. That's not teaching me anything about base running. That's important because you got to turn the bags properly, blah, blah, blah. So I think that is why I became so adamant about teaching base running. But I also saw us early in my coaching career make some bad base running decisions. And I learned this from my dad, who was a coach. As a coach, it's your obligation when you win or lose. First thing you should do is reflect. Okay, what did we do well, what did we do poorly? And instead of pointing the finger at your players, I think it's really important to look at yourself as a coach and say, okay, when's the last time we reviewed it? When's the last time we repped it? And then kind of get better from there. And again, we, we lost a game on a decision or two base running. And I just, I want to be able to put my head on the pillow at night because we still make. Might make a bad decision. But I do feel, we feel as a staff, we do base running as much as anybody in the country. There's nobody doing it more than we are. Okay. But we're doing as much as anybody in the country. And I do feel very confident that if we make a mistake, it wasn't because we haven't repped it. And I remember two weeks ago we were at Old Dominion and we had a bad read at third, and I took the blame, I took the blame on that because our base running in BP every day is at second base. We're going no out reads one, out reads dirt ball. I mean, ground ball, fly balls. And we do do base running at third as well. But when I reflected back, I mean, we haven't base ran at third base in like three weeks. Just our down contact rules, our see it through rules. And I took the blame. Like, that's on us. Well, the next two days at Old Dominion, we base ran at third, right? And I'm making sure at least once a week we're at third now because I don't want to put one of our players in that position again without repping it the way we need to. [00:55:45] Speaker A: How much time are you spending on the Fall with with ball and dirt reads every day? [00:55:49] Speaker B: Every day, at least 10 minutes. [00:55:52] Speaker A: How's the setup on the ball and dirt reads? Because I know everybody does a little bit different. Are you using machines? Are you using a live arm? I know you say you don't do much with coach coaches. [00:56:00] Speaker B: Yeah, we use a machine. But a lot of our dirt ball reeds with a lot of our dirt ball reads are predetermined. Right. [00:56:10] Speaker A: Versus still out of the hand. Like, for me, the best guys I ever had could read out of the hand if it's going in the dirt. And they were already on the fly because they knew that ball was going in the dirt. [00:56:22] Speaker B: What we like to talk about is sometimes the catcher gets lucky, right? Sometimes the catcher goes to block a ball and it gets stuck in his glove and he gets lucky. And when that happens, you got to tip your hat. We can't just clap. This happens in baseball a lot. You've been around the game a lot. When it's successful, you can't clap. And then when it's unsuccessful, you give the what are we doing? Look. So we have a thing here where, like, we're gonna clap even when it's unsuccessful if we're doing the right things. So, like, for instance, us early in the game with two outs, it is automatic. And the mentality is if you think it's going in the dirt, you go, not see it in the dirt. If you think it's going in the dirt, you go, you know. And there's a lot of times we're clapping because it's a great read, but there are those times where the catcher gets lucky and it sticks in his glove and he throws him out. We're still clapping. The great read. That's a good read. But we do talk a lot about how hard it actually is to block a ball, recover it, and then throw it accurately to second base. It's not an easy thing to do. So again, we go over that. We talk about our reads and our absolutes in our dirt balls, but we'll use the machine. To answer your question, we use a machine, but we've got machines now where you can alter them. And just a little touch here and a little touch touch there, and it's a non dirt ball, and then it is a dirt ball. So, yeah, we'll use the machine and then it's great work for our catchers. You know, I mean, our catchers blocking, recovering, and then moving properly to, you know, be able to throw the ball accurately. And that's what it comes down to. I mean, belt buckle below versus belt buckle above. Safe and out. [00:58:17] Speaker A: I mean, how are you limited with the catchers? Obviously, you want them to get work in, but you don't want them to get beat up either. So, I mean, how are you managing kind of workload with ball and dirt? And also I want to get into throwing a little bit too, after this. But I mean, how are. How are you kind of balancing? Okay, they've got to get their work in, but we don't want to beat them up either. [00:58:37] Speaker B: Yeah, now in the fall, they're getting beat up. I'll be honest. There's block days in the fall where they're tough. They're very demanding days. I mean, there's days in the fall our catchers are probably blocking upwards of 60 balls in one day. And it's tough. But I think that is part, you know, that neck up toughness behind the plate, like you gotta have. And before we even do the work, I'm like, guys, it's not gonna be fun. Like, this is gonna be challenging, but, like, how you respond, how you act to it is what it's all about and embrace it. And I believe we have a catching culture here at Coastal that is good as anywhere in the country. None of them have animosity amongst each other. They're all really good friends because it's a very unique fraternity. And I like to say only those that have been part of the Coastal Carolina catching fraternity truly get it. But, man, it's. It's an awesome fraternity. And these guys have been through a lot because I'm a. I could be very demanding and very challenging at times. But I could tell you that I also love them a lot, too. And the group, the two catchers specifically, I mean, benders caught two, so I'll throw them in there. But those two specifically, that have caught the majority, man, I love those guys. Man, those guys have made my life so much easier. This year has been the easiest year I've ever had to coach catching. And why that is is because of them, too. Like, I don't need to get mad. Like, they come and do their work and it's like, there's nothing to get mad about because they do it at such a high level with great body language, with great intent, and with a great mindset. So I'm very fortunate there. But the fall is challenging for catchers because we're installing, we're demanding, we're setting expectations, and you got to be very, very consistent with that every day. And you know, that's something that I think separates us. [01:00:47] Speaker A: And then how are you managing workload and on ramp for their arms? Because they throw as much as the pitchers do. [01:00:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it all comes back to, you know, communicating with them. But again, if their arm is in good shape, they should be able to throw the ball from home to second base. You know, 10 times every day, 15 times every day. They should be able to field a bunt and throw the ball to first base. You know, we got the catapult system and it, you know, calculates every throw. I think our one catcher at Campbell the other day had like 300 throws, you know, in one day. And that all goes back to, you know, what you're doing in August. But we are very intentional with our days off and, you know, in our no throw days and things like that. And, you know, I communicate with them on a regular basis, I communicate with our strength and conditioning coach on a regular basis to make sure we're all in line with, you know, what we're doing. [01:01:46] Speaker A: How often they have no throw days? [01:01:49] Speaker B: At least once a week. At least once a week. But some of those other days are a low throw day. Like, I don't even count, you know, playing catch and, you know, 10 accurate throws a second as a throw day. I mean, that's, you know, it's almost like outfielders. An outfielder throws a ball from right field to home plate four times one day, and it's like he needs a week off. Like, you should be able to do that six days a week. I mean, we're asking you to play catch and then throw the ball from right field to home plate four times or three times, you know, on a good long hop. You should be able to do that every day. [01:02:26] Speaker A: Your guys in and out routine same like on a weekend. How are you varying that? [01:02:33] Speaker B: And we vary that. [01:02:34] Speaker A: Hey, you're live catcher. Are they throwing in and out or are they warming the pitcher up? You're starting catcher that day. [01:02:40] Speaker B: Our in and out now at home games is before bp, so we do it before batting practice. So I mean, we have an in and out routine, but that routine's altered with some game situations. You know, we've got a team that wheels their guy from second on slow developing ground balls. So when we do slow rollers in that particular day, we'll have our first baseman catch return throw to home plate. You know, so we do a lot more game like stuff in infield, outfield now than we ever have. We do a lot of square drill where we'll have pitchers covering Bags just increase reps. But with the uses of machines and things like that, there's a lot of days where we can get all of our ground ball infield work done during batting practice. And that's by design. There's days where our infield outfield consists of outfield throws only and then infield will do their work. Catcher throws an infield outfield, they'll throw to bases. But it's really more just for catch play than anything. [01:03:51] Speaker A: How long have you guys gone where you're taking in and out before bp? [01:03:55] Speaker B: We've done that the last five years, I think. [01:03:57] Speaker A: What was the switch for? [01:03:58] Speaker B: That gives our guys more time after BP to eat, shower, and kind of get their minds prepared to play the game versus half and also ramping up their arms, you know, more times, like just one time. And now BP's over. You have much more time now from, from that point to when you have to be back out on the field before the game. You know, they got more time to themselves. Again, a lot of guys like to shower whatever their pregame routine is. But we have pre game, you know, fully catered pregame meals so they can eat, they can shower, they have more time versus, you know, rushing back out to have, you know, infield, outfield. [01:04:39] Speaker A: What's your pregame meal for them, nutrition wise? [01:04:43] Speaker B: So it varies, but, you know, everything's fully catered. So, you know, high protein carbs. Our strength conditioning coach and our athletic trainer and our director baseball operations, they spearhead that. And everything's calculated with what they're eating. You know, for a guy that's 46 now, you know, there's always too much food around, if you will. Got to be very disciplined. [01:05:09] Speaker A: That's changed. I think that's been the biggest change for me over the years is the nutrition piece and nutrition and rest. [01:05:16] Speaker B: Nutrition and rest, which, you know, when we grew up, we didn't know anything about it. I ate Chinese food before every game. Now they say that's the worst thing for you, too much sodium. [01:05:25] Speaker A: I think that's why the bodies are different now. Just all of it better. We got way, we're way more physical at the college level than we've ever been because of everything. [01:05:34] Speaker B: Well, the commitment with the strength and conditioning. You know, when we were growing up, it was kind of frowned upon to be lifting as a baseball player. The strength conditioning is different. And then you're right. The overall importance of nutrition, you know, for us at Colasta, like, you know, we go on the road, there's never a day we're giving meal money out. Everything is designed with putting our players in the best position to be able to play at the best they can possibly be. So the nutrition is really important. So every meal is very, you know, designed through our strength conditioning coach or athletic trainer and our operations, baseball operations. You know, those meals are very important [01:06:19] Speaker A: for our post meal. Then for them, too. [01:06:22] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yep. Pregame and pre and post. [01:06:25] Speaker A: It's awesome. Really good. Hey, you're a good clinician. You're still. I tell you that all the time. Still. One of my favorite catching talks was Orlando, the, The year you spoke on Sunday there. I think that was 2015. But how long did it take you to find your voice as a clinician? [01:06:44] Speaker B: That's just myself, to be honest with you. That's just myself. I feel like I'm pretty passionate about coaching, teaching what our absolutes are, what our beliefs are. And, you know, when you get into a segment like that and you can present your beliefs and your absolutes, it's. It's pretty, you know, it's pretty easy just to be who you are. [01:07:08] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's. You're always one of my favorites to listen to because. Because I know that's who you are, too. Like, that's not, that's not a fake thing. You. You being on stage like that, with your energy, that's just who you are. So I appreciate watching you talk because that's. That's who you are. [01:07:24] Speaker B: Thank you, man. That's a great compliment. [01:07:26] Speaker A: Do you have a fail forward moment? Do you have something you thought was going to sidetrack you, but looking back now is maybe one of the best things that happened to you. [01:07:34] Speaker B: Well, the decision to hang up the cleats, you know, in 2000, I'm with the Reds. I'm in Dayton, and I was putting on our. We didn't have a high A team. We had two teams in a Midwest League. So I'm on the Dayton Dragons, our quote, unquote, hi A team, and I'm the backup catcher. We're like a month into it. I've caught like one game and probably should have been on the other team. You know, I mean, my whole motto the whole time was like, you can't make the major leagues if you're back up in the minor leagues. Well, Gilly calls me and he's like, hey, listen, I've got the volunteer spot open next year. I'm from New Jersey. I got a year left in school. School. The Reds are giving me like $5,000 a semester to go back to school. I know that doesn't pay for my whole school. He's going to pay for the rest of my school. Plus, I'd be able to put that 5,000 in my pocket each semester. So that starts going through my brain. And I knew Coastal's program was on the rise with Gilly and his vision in my mindset, I was thinking, what happens if I play pro ball for two more years? He leaves. Like, I'm gonna have to go back to Coastal. I'm have to pay 30 plus thousand dollars out of my pocket to go to school just to finish up one year versus go back now free of charge. 5,000 in my pocket each semester from the Reds and start potentially my career. Like, maybe I want to get into coaching. So I said, hey, let me think about it for a week. And he was great about it. Listen, the last thing I want you to do is hang up something that you're, you know, passionate about. Like, I don't want you to quit if you're all in. I just want you to know, like, this spot's open. And I was like, give me a week, let me take it all in. And 24 hours later, I didn't need the week. Like, I woke up the next day and I'm like, what am I doing? And I go into the manager's office and I told him what I was going to do. And you know, he shook my hand, he said, I wish you the best. And it was the best decision I ever made. I came home for one month. I told my mom. I was so lucky to have the mom that I have. But my mom never really forced me to get a job while I was playing baseball. So I quit baseball. And basically it was whatever in June and maybe even a little bit earlier. And I go home because I didn't have to be back to Coastal till August. Well, like I told her, like, I'm not getting a job. Or she told me, like, you don't need to get a job until you're done baseball. That's a full time commitment. And I got home and I remember me and my best buddy from high school. Like, I was like, I gotta get a job now. And I landscaped for like a month. We were landscaping like 7 in the morning, just showing up, just landscaping all day long. Shirt off. You know, at Friday you walk, the guy's like, here's your monies, you know, here's 350 bucks. Whatever it was, we go to Atlantic City that night and either double it or lose it. But like, that Last month, you know, before I reported for my first real job, like, I got a job, I was landscaping. It was blue collar. Hard work, but that was the best. Not to get too long winded. That was the best decision I made, is shutting down pro ball and get my life started. I graduated from coastal that year. 2001 was our first year where we finally knocked down the door. We go to our first regional. Bubba Dorman is the assistant coach. I say this as the biggest comment. I mean, this is a redneck baseball guy from South Carolina. [01:11:12] Speaker A: Still one of my favorite camps ever. Best of Virginia camp, was doing infield stuff with Bubba. I stole so much infield stuff from [01:11:19] Speaker B: him, you know, And I'm this. I'm this punk from Jersey, and he embraces me. Like, he helped me be able to articulate what people were doing to become a better coach. He helped me, you know, see organization, commitment. I mean, he was a tremendous mentor to me. You know, he. So I ended up graduating that year. The next year, I start my graduate school, and we won again. And he ends up stepping down, moves on to another job, and Gilly moves me up. And from that moment on, that was it, you know? And people ask all the time, well, you know, what do you recommend? I got lucky. I made the right decision in pro ball. I shut it down. I got my degree. We won. Winning helps. Winning always helps. We won. We won at a high level. I got lucky. The assistant that mentored me in a really positive way, because Bubba is a tremendous baseball coach. He mentored me in a really positive way. He moved on, I moved up, and we continued to win. [01:12:29] Speaker A: What years did you get married? [01:12:32] Speaker B: Man, you're killing me on this. What years did I get? My son is. I got married 14 years ago. [01:12:38] Speaker A: I mean, how were those conversations being? Baseball industry is not easy to have a family. I mean, did you prep her at all before you got married? Like, hey, this is not gonna be an easy thing? Or was it to say, we're gonna figure it out? [01:12:53] Speaker B: No, My wife. So I have a stepdaughter. So my wife was previously married. She was super independent. So, like, she didn't need me around every day. And that. [01:13:08] Speaker A: That's always been my advice to people, is like, hey, my wife's same thing. Extremely independent. You have to find somebody that. That can do their own thing and doesn't need you around. [01:13:17] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. When I was home during COVID she's like, you got to get back to work, you know, and over the winter, sometimes it's like you're so bored. You need to go back to work. So honestly, in our relationship, like we love being around each other but you know, my job is perfect for her mentality and you know, it works so well. And what she does at the house, it's unbelievable. I mean people, you can't design the stuff that she does. I mean, she's literally the CEO of the house. You know, I don't have to come home and I mean my job is to take out the trash and I'm not very good at it. [01:14:01] Speaker A: Are your kids into sports? [01:14:03] Speaker B: They are, they are. My daughter just started playing volleyball. She's real shy. Me and my wife can't understand it. My wife's from Jersey too. Outgoing, competitive. I like to think I'm outgoing, competitive. Both of our kids, great kids, but they're competitive but like very passive. My son's really into basketball right now. He, he's got a really good coach here in Myrtle Beach. Colin Stevens is his name. He's made a really good impact on him. I've seen his basketball game really improve. My son's pretty tall actually. My wife's side of the family is tall. So my son is actually, he's in the seventh grade. He has grown, he's getting taller. So he's got a passion for basketball. My daughter, like I said, she's playing volleyball. She's doing, she's doing well, but she's very shy, very passive. So she's got to kind of crack that egg. [01:15:00] Speaker A: What are some final thoughts or something I should ask you before I let you go? [01:15:07] Speaker B: What should you ask me? What do I like? [01:15:09] Speaker A: Is there anything I missed? I mean, you and I could talk for. This could be a 10 hour episode [01:15:13] Speaker B: because what are we just. We just saw each other in Jersey at the coffee shop. We had a great talk. I don't know. We're in week. What are we. We just finished week 10 already of the season. We've got four more weeks left. I mean it's been a 10 week grind. You know, we're in a good position. We haven't lost the weekend series in 10 weeks, but week 11, 12, 13 and 14 are going to be very, very challenging. So our motto, just keep our head down and keep chugging. Because you know this game, like I said earlier, will humble you quickly. [01:15:46] Speaker A: I was going to ask you that, you know, you've been doing this for so long. The season is a sprint, but then it's okay. I got to get back on the road recruiting. Do you have any decompress after the season that you use to help some [01:16:01] Speaker B: people complain about these days, these dead periods that we've inserted, you know, July 4th and Father's Day week. And I think they've been great, you know, just to get two, three days off the road, come home, you know, enjoy your family for a couple days, you know. So I think that has really helped in a lot of ways those, those days right there. And then come August, you're off the road for like four weeks. I think that's very valuable. I just think again, the older you get, I mean, I find myself, you know, when I was younger, I mean, I would just grind the office, grind the office, grind. The older I get, I find myself, like, wanting to grind the office and then looking at myself and just dropping the pen, dropping, you know, the keyboard or the computer and just getting up and going home and realizing, you know, that was just as valuable as, or more valuable than sitting in the office. So, you know, taking that advantage of working for a guy like Gary Gilmore who, you know, isn't on top of you every second about, you know, how long you're in the office or what you're doing, like, get your work done and realize, like, you got to get away from the office here and there if you want to be sharp. Yeah. [01:17:16] Speaker A: And I think the seven day moratorium for Thanksgiving and Christmas is going to be good too, for you guys to be able to put it down. [01:17:25] Speaker B: No doubt. [01:17:25] Speaker A: Just because it keeps everybody accountable for that. Just get away from it for a little bit, put it down. [01:17:30] Speaker B: The months of November, December are heaven, especially living down here where it doesn't get too, too cold. There's a lot to do down here. November, December, two great recharging months. You know, we've got a couple camps, but we enjoy our camps. Our camps are, you know, are great recruiting tools, but, you know, they're events that again, like, as a staff, we enjoy because we like to teach. But, you know, we have a couple camps in those months, but outside of that, it's pretty, pretty enjoyable just to kind of get away, enjoy some football and family and friends. [01:18:05] Speaker A: Thanks for your time, Kev. Appreciate it. Hopefully I see you on Omaha here in June. [01:18:09] Speaker B: All right. I appreciate you having me best elected [01:18:13] Speaker A: to coach Chenal and the Chanticleers the rest of the way out pumped with college baseball here, with tournaments, getting ready to start for the lower levels and then Division 1 here at the end of the month. Thanks again to Antonio Walker, Jim Richardson, John Litchfield, Zach Hale and Matt Weston, ABC office, for all their help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via email, rbrownleadavca.org Twitter, Instagram and TikTok coachmeabca or direct message me via the MyABCA app. This is Ryan Bradley signing off for the American baseball Coaches Association. Thanks and leave it better for those behind you. [01:18:58] Speaker B: I'm down here at your feet I'm singing baby, you set me free. You set me free.