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Kermit Smith has established himself as a trusted leader in collegiate baseball, guiding multiple programs to success while taking on key roles both on the field and within the broader coaching community.
Smith completed his ninth season, Appalachian State, in 2025, has previously served as head coach at both Lander University and Belmont Abbey College. At both programs, he led teams to NCAA Division 2 College World Series appearances and has now amassed over 600 career victories. A three time ABCA Regional Coach of the Year, Smith has held leadership roles on campus and within his conference, including chairing the Coaches Council at Belmont Abbey. His impact extends beyond the diamond, as evidenced by being honored with the 2024 APP State Fellowship of Christian Athletes Influence Award. Smith was also selected to coach in USA Baseball's Prospect Development League in 2022, further demonstrating his reputation as a mentor, educator and leader within the collegiate baseball community.
Let's welcome Kermit Smith to the podcast I hear. Kermit Smith 2026 ABC Dave Khalitz, Ethics and coaching award recipient, heading in a 10th season at App State, but took Belmont Abbey and Lander to college World Series appearances and over 600 wins. Now Kermit, thanks for jumping on with me.
[00:04:01] Speaker B: Oh, thanks for having me. I'm, I'm excited.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: Hey, what'd you learn from Chris Pollard.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Organization?
He's very, very detailed and what he did, you know, even at a really, really young age, obviously I didn't know what the next 24 months post being coached by him was going to be, but I ended up being a head Coach and then 24 months, less than 24 months after playing for actually less than 13 months.
So, you know, there was a, there was a sense of urgency, a of organization, but also a sense of relatability.
You know, he could be super organized and passionate about what he's trying to accomplish, but he was also close enough to kind of a player's age and a player's mindset that, you know, he could pull you aside and an over 20 stretch and you know, you know, just kind of talk you through it, just, just be very, very normal.
It's very clear how much, you know, he loved his, his wife and it's very clear how passionate he was about his mother.
Family was very, very important to him, but he was very driven, very passionate. It exuded in everything he did, you know, the number of recruits that were coming on campus during the time that I played for him, the, you know, the number of commitments, how passionate he was about leaving practice and going recruiting and things of that nature. But just, just overall his personal drive obviously been very fortunate to stay in touch with him over the years.
So that's kind of a two sided question, you know, one is what did I learn, you know, when I, when I played for him? And two is, you know, what have I learned from him since? And you know, I think that all of those things that I learned as a player were very true as, as we moved into the next stage of our relationship.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: How much did you lean on him then? When you take over a program for the first time, I Mean, it's really early in your career, which there are some benefits you mentioned with, with Coach Pollard because you are similar in their age range, but also from an experience standpoint, you got some catching up to do.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I think a lot, really, you know, I think that even fast forwarding to, you know, getting this job, it did not hurt that, you know, Coach Pollard was very successful at App. State and we had a good relationship still. But in the early years of coaching, you know, all of your positives and negatives aren't necessarily in wins and losses. You know, I think that you can go through things with coaching staff, I think you can go through things with players and you ride an emotional roller coaster how to manage a budget. You know, I think those sorts of things. And we were at very similar institutions at the time, he being at Pfeiffer and I was at Bowman Abbey.
So a lot of those things that we were trying to accomplish, you know, we were going through very similar struggles or similar adversities, let's put it that way. So I think when you're, when you're diving into it, you know, in that regard, you know, I remember one specifically, probably, probably about 15 months into me being a head coach, you know, we met halfway, you know, down at Concord Mills. I think it was at a Chili's. And, you know, I just. I just needed.
I just needed an ear. And, you know, he took the portion of the day.
And again, if, you know Coach Pollard, it's. To get that much of a day from him is. That's an accomplishment. But, you know, him just taking the time to come down and just, you know, listen and give advice and, you know, kind of, you know, pat me on the back and say, hey, you're heading in the right direction, you know, all those things, you know, exuded from when he coached me, you know, he established that, you know, he was going to be there through those next few years of whatever it is that, you know, I had done but just happened to get into coaching.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: Are you. Are you ever prepared for the amount of paperwork you have to do as a head coach?
[00:08:00] Speaker B: I don't think so.
I do think in some odd way, getting right out of college where you're doing a lot of work and going right into it, you know, I think specifically as. As a head coach, you know, and, you know, you know, all of the phone call logs and all the budgetary paperwork and all of those things that you have to do, and, and it's changed a lot over the years. It's, you Know, back in the day, you know, in those early 2000s, the rules were, you know, much different in terms of, you know, how you were contacting and contact logs and things of that. A lot of pen to paper, you know, a lot of, like, exact times of when you're making phone calls and practice logs and things like that. So it's. It's a little more convenient now with technology. But, yeah, I think. I think that you. I think you're somewhat prepared for it, at least the way that it used to be.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: A lot more streamlined now for y' all from a paperwork standpoint, Craig?
[00:09:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Much easier.
I mean, what blueprint did you use? You took two programs, put. Took Belmont Abbey and Lander to World Series appearances. What kind of blueprint did you lay out to allow that to happen?
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Kind of back to the age of when I was a head coach.
I say this a lot, specifically in recruiting, that I'm way more of who George and Sue Ellen Smith raised than I am any coaching tree that I was necessarily under because I was only an assistant for nine months.
So I think a lot of the details of what I did early on and even into today were way more about the type of people and the type of actions and the type of students and the type of impact we wanted to make in our communities and on our campuses.
You know, and I always felt very passionate that, you know, the young men's character was going to, you know, propel us to be who we were going to be. And in that character was a desire to work hard.
So whether back in those days, I was. I had the right strength plan or I was taking the proper amount of fungos, or I was managing throwing routines as well as I am now, it was. It was still all based in the same thing. It was all based in how we were going to communicate with each other on a daily basis. And whilst someone may work as hard as we do, there can't be another team in the country that will work harder than we do.
And there can't be a separation between how hard we work and how hard we play. The reason that you work hard is so that you can play hard.
And, you know, my. My dad was. Owned his own fence business. He's a World War II veteran and Blue collar as it gets. My mom worked in the school System for over 30 years and was an educator at heart and went on to become an administrator for the. The Title IX program in the state of Florida.
So, you know, I think that when you are raised a certain way and you have this, this blueprint of a blue collar middle class mentality.
I think that that's only going to exude into whatever it is that you become.
So a lot of the things that were back in those days and still are embodied in who we are today is, is around that work ethic and how you present yourself on a daily basis. And I guess the old cliche of you never get a, to make a first impression.
You know, we want to make a first impression every day. You know, we, we want to, you know, make sure that we're, we're on time to class. We want to make sure we're, you know, sitting in the right spot in class. We want to make sure that we have gratitude towards our professors and the people that take care of our buildings here, our coaching staff, our trainers, our PT people, our strength coaches. And you know, I think through that gratitude and you know, looking back to those days that I was so fortunate to have the parents that I had, but you know, something is as small as a meal. You know, my, regardless of how hard my parents worked every day, that never failed that they found time to have a family dinner that night. And in that family dinner, you know, before cell phones or anything else but TV wasn't on, sat around the dinner table, we said grace and we talked about our day. And I think that, that still to this day I take team meals very seriously. I think that there are times to separate. The last thing we say before we get off the bus if we're going to have a team meal or restaurant is hat check, phone check. So we'll take our hats off, leave them on the bus, and we'll take our phones out of our pocket and leave it on the bus. And I guess that's a little old school in me, but when we go indoors and you might see a trainer sitting with a freshman, you might see a coach sitting with a senior, you might see, you know, bullpen catcher sitting with the coaching staff. Like.
And it's funny what you hear in that is you hear laughter and communication and just, just overall relationship build and you know, not for any other reason. Not, not to try to win a game or not to try to have a better culture or anything else. Just, that's just the way that I was raised.
So I think that it probably starts with that. I hope that I've evolved as a coach over, you know, the last 25 years. But I think it starts basis of not. There's not going to be anyone in the country that outworks us and there has to Be a carryover to how hard we work and to how hard we play.
And that dugout, that locker room, the fabric of who we are, we have to be united in that. It has to be we. It has to be something bigger than just ourselves. Whether that's our university, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, or whether that's our parents, whether that's our grandparents, whether that's where we were raised, who we were raised by has to be something greater than ourselves.
[00:14:19] Speaker A: Majority of your team meals on the road, then in the spring together.
[00:14:24] Speaker B: You know, it's.
The spring's a hectic time, so I'd like to say that we take at least, you know, one to two meals a weekend when, when we are traveling.
And where that balance comes from for me is, you know, and that's, that's a switch a little bit from Division 2 to Division 1 is, you know, we'll leave on a Thursday for you, Friday, Saturday, Sunday series. So, in essence, we're gone for four days. We have a midweek game on the road. It's five days out of the week that we're gone.
So there has to be a balance academically there too. You know, kid might have an online course or a study hall or what have you, but Thursday night meals.
Yeah, we're finding a place and, you know, if we won the previous week, we'll probably do something very similar. So, you know, might find a local barbecue place or a local Mexican joint and, you know, just something where we can disconnect. And we usually have a practice on Thursday night and then go have a team meal and kind of settle into where we're going to be for the weekend.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Can you cultivate work ethic?
I mean, not every kid you probably have in your program comes from blue collar background. Can you cultivate that work ethic?
[00:15:36] Speaker B: All right, I, I think you can touch it for sure.
You know, I think, I think anything that you find important, I think if you, I think if you make it a priority, you. You can impact someone through that. I have to believe that, you know, whether that's toughness, whether that's work ethic, whether that's leadership skills, whether that's, you know, serving other people.
Yeah, I do, I do think it comes back to a heart of gratitude. I really do. I think a lot of things come back to that. If we're not truly grateful for what we have, then we're not going to work as hard as we're capable of and we're not going to serve other people at a high enough level. So I think a lot of that is maybe not necessarily in the work, like, you know, blowing a whistle at practice or saying, you know, hey, we're going to run if we get our first and third defense wrong, but more maybe coming from a constant approach to the appreciation for the opportunities that we have. You know, I think too oftentimes we can look in an 8 o' clock class and be like, oh, we gotta. We gotta go to class. And, you know, more of like, looking at it as like, ali, I get to get an education this morning.
And, hey, we've all been there. I get it. But I never want someone to look at our practice or, you know, coming into our clubhouse or our building or getting on the charter bus to make a trip is like, I have to do this.
Look at the opportunity that we have to do this. We play a great university, we play the greatest game in the world.
You know, we have an opportunity to play in one of the best conferences in the country in front of scouts and fans and playing against other great teams and great coaches and great players.
So I think with that, you know, comes the opportunity to look at it two different ways. And I think if we're grateful for the opportunities that we have, we're going to maximize our skill set and our opportunity.
[00:17:36] Speaker A: Do you have a definition of toughness?
[00:17:40] Speaker B: You know, I use a lot because I don't want our players to just think that I'm the only voice that they get. You know, we use a lot of video. Video.
I'm going to answer your question, I promise.
So I, I think that anything that I would say would be this disputing of what I ask our guys to listen to on a constant basis, because I don't, I don't want my definition of anything to be their definition of anything.
So I think that when we get into that, it, you know, it's, It's. It's always a mixture of, you know, hearing this person's definition or hearing this person's definition.
You know, there's so many sound bites and videos that you can find that when we do start diving into that, I want to bring in a lot of voices, you know, whether that is Nick Saban or John Wooden or, you know, anyone that maybe just came up with it. I, you know, I love Iowa State football's definition.
I guess it's technically not necessarily a definition, but I do think it embodies it as, you know, we're going to be tough for longer than the opponent, you know, as long as it takes to get the job Done.
So, you know, I think that if I was to do it, I'd probably be too close minded to athletics. And I think our reason for teaching it shouldn't, should not be to win a game. Our reason for teaching it should model the tough times that we'll have as husbands and fathers. And you know what it is that we do when we get older because the toughest times are not going to come on the baseball field. As you and I both know. Our toughest times are going to come, you know, later in life when we deal with whether it's the passing of our parents or a mortgage payment that we don't know how we're going to make or a job contract that might be up that might influence greatly our family, a pregnancy with our wife that maybe is very, very difficult. Those tough times that are coming, I think we're just setting the foundation for that. So, you know, to make a diving play or to, you know, crash into an outfield wall, or to get hit by pitch or to lay a blunt down or to back up a base, you know, all of those quote unquote tough things that we are teaching are very mild when you know, they fast forward 10, 15 years down the road.
So I think to try to put a definition to it for, for me would probably be short sighted and why we're, why we want them to embody being a tough minded individual.
[00:20:25] Speaker A: I do think gratitude helps with that though.
I do think having gratitude, I think creates toughness. Like people don't really equate that at times, but I do feel like if you are grateful for your opportunities even and grateful for your setbacks too, I think that breeds toughness.
[00:20:44] Speaker B: There's no question. You know, I think words like caring and words like empathy and words like compassion, if those things aren't in the center of your clubhouse, then you're not going to survive the highly competitive world that we're in. Because, you know, the outside world, the social media, the fans, everything from that coming in as that penetrates our clubhouse, you, you have to support each other. You know, it is truly not, it is truly as caring and compassionate as you can possibly be because the second that it becomes, you know, we become combative or player to player, coach to player on the inside, then you're completely lost. So I couldn't agree with you more. I think gratitude, compassion, empathy, how we communicate with each other, those things are tough as it gets because again, if we did fast forward 10 to 15 years of the challenges that will come through pregnancies and marriages and mortgage payments and job status and all of those things that as you get older.
Yeah, that's your most compassionate times. That's, that's your most empathetic times, you know, dealing with your children, you know, on getting their homework done or, you know, missing school or, you know, how they're going. I mean, golly, you've got to be compassionate in those arenas. So I couldn't agree with you more with all of that, starting with gratitude for what we've been blessed with.
You have to have that, you have to speak that language because you don't.
[00:22:23] Speaker A: See those examples in society as much anymore. And I think that's a toughness part too, is like, can you be compassionate in this situation? Can you have empathy in this situation? Because you're not seeing a lot of examples of those in society now.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: No question. So if you're not emulating it on the inside, then they may, they may never see it, you know. You know, it's funny that, you know, however many years ago Joe Erdman came out with that book Inside Out Coaching, you know, and it's, it's interesting that you hear a lot of sound bites, specifically in football coaches press conferences. And you did over the next five to ten years after that was written, you know, the, the transformational and the transactional coaches. And you know, what's interesting is as, as we've gone on those past, and I might be butchering the timeline, I'm just going to say 15 years ago that was written.
It's, it's funny how that shifted, you know, a lot. Like where I think coaches and administrators and different things have become more transformational and I do think it's slipping to the other side where sometimes players are becoming transactional.
And, you know, it's, it's funn. That book was written to coaches 15 years ago. And now it's almost like we need to rewrite that book to embody everyone that's involved in it. Right. Not just coaches, not just administrators, not just assistant coaches, not just athletic trainers, not just strength coaches, but players as well, managers as well.
What are the transactions that are taking place instead of the transformations that are taking place?
So in that, I think our world needs more transformation. I think our world needs more relationship build. I think our world needs more gratitude for what they have.
Yeah, and I don't think you're hearing that a lot.
[00:24:17] Speaker A: What were your other adjustments going from Division 2 to Division 1 mentioned outside the travel, obviously you're on the road a lot more, especially on weekends. What were some of the other transitions that you had to make from D2 to D1.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: Well, I think in recruiting, I think you're. You're recruiting past just the next year a little bit. So, you know, you're. You're junior and soph. You're keeping an eye on freshmen and sophomores in high school, and you're recruiting juniors. Very heavy.
We didn't do that very much at Belmont Abbey and Lander at the time. It was more, you know, rising guys that are in their senior year and the following summer. You know, it was interesting during that time. And it's. You had asked me this question. As the portals become a really big thing these days. It was always a thing for us. You know, in 16 years in Division 2, we could always take a Division 1 transfer. So in that regard, it hasn't really changed a whole lot. So, you know, those same qualities that we, you know, we embody, we wanted to have back in those days.
We still want to have those today. So no different in that regard. We're still recruiting high school kids, we're still recruiting junior college kids, and we're still recruiting kids now. It's called out of the portal, but back then it was just called a Division 1 transfer.
So not much different in that regard, but you're keeping it on freshmen and sophomores in high school and recruiting juniors. Pretty heavy. So that was one adjustment. Talked about the time already, but you're going to spend a little bit more time on the road for our conference is a little bit more spread out than it was at Belmont Abbey and Lander.
And I think we're very fortunate to have a greater support staff, more assistance that can, you know, make a living and be paid a little bit better than they were in Division two. So you have a chance to retain them a little bit longer, which is incredible.
Athletic trainers that are. That are with you for an entire year instead of sometimes just in your sports window, your championship segment, strength, coaches, academic support.
And I think in all of that, I think it's. I would have looked at it prior to coming, getting to Appalachian State. I would have looked at it and said, man, all of those things are such humongous positives.
The challenge in that was that I needed to make sure that. I need to make sure that all those people are pulling in the same direction. Right? Like the. The qualities that you and I have spent the last 20 minutes talking about, that those are qualities of those people as well.
Because I do think a lot of culture is taught in the weight room. I do think A lot of toughness. If we go back to that or hard work.
I think it's taught in the weight room, and you hope that that slips over. I think that, you know, health, the health of players is taught in the weight room. The movement patterns are taught in the weight room, and they should reflect the way that we teach hitting or the way that we teach pitching or field and ground balls or whatever the case is.
So I think that was probably some of the bigger adjustments. Obviously, a lot of double headers in Division 2, so we don't play as many of those. Thank the good Lord that we don't. But I think that double headers should be banned at all levels.
But. So that, that's a huge positive. But, you know, and. And it's funny that you asked me that. It's. It was never about Division 1, really.
It was just. There was. There was never a time that I was like, you know, I don't even know where a job track.
I wouldn't even know where to tell you to go look for jobs.
It was just about the place that I was and if another opportunity found my family and I, you know, because the move from Belmont Abbey to Lander gave our family an opportunity for my wife to work part time and stay at home with our child. And we were starting a family at the time. And then, you know, App State gave me that same opportunity to move here and, you know, continue that journey with, at that point, our three children.
So, you know, for me it was, you know, is the place that I'm at going to support our baseball program and are we going to have an opportunity to win a national championship and if, if we feel like those things align?
Rebecca and I were, you know, very excited at each step along the way. I, I wouldn't trade my years at Bellman Abbey, Orlander or App State for anything. The growth that our family has had at all three of those stops, immense. And the relationships that are at those three places are incredible.
[00:29:10] Speaker A: And that's a common theme on this podcast with guests about being where your feet are at.
Because, I mean, not a lot of guys get an opportunity to go from D2 to D1. And I think that's a huge tip to coaches out there of make where you're at great.
And yes, you may get another opportunity, but make sure you're making where you're at great.
[00:29:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it's again, back to those days and, you know, kind of along the line of support staff. It was really fortunate. Obviously. I know you have a good relationship with Chris Anderson at Bellman Abbey. And, you know, you can look back and at the point that he became an assistant at Bellman Abbey and then through our first five years at Lander together, man, those. That's when it took off, you know, and we're very fortunate to have my. My current recruiting coordinator, Brit Johnson, joined me and Chris at Lander. And, you know, I think We've been together 16 years now and just been so fortunate to have, you know, people come into those.
Those areas and think like you just said, right? Because they weren't working for me or for the university or for the baseball program, thinking, I need to get out of here. Right. I need. I need to go do something else. And, you know, along with being where your feet are, I think it's just so. The reason I bring that up is it's just so critical that you have people around you that think that very same way. Right. And. And not that you don't. You're not ambitious and not that you don't want to make more money or, or. Or coach Division 1 baseball or whatever the case of coaching the big leagues, whatever your goals are. Your goals.
But while you're in. In the midst of it, while you're in the trenches. Yeah. To. To be where your feet are. And. But it's. You can't do that by yourself.
If you're not doing that with the support staff and players that share that common vision, then I don't think it's. I don't think you're capable of doing it.
[00:31:12] Speaker A: I just think you get distracted, too. Man. The guys that I knew over the years that were so worried about their next job, they just never got it. I think one, they're holding on too tight to trying to get another job, and instead of just really focusing on where you're at.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And you're missing the whole point, which is to impact the people in your locker room and on your coaching staff. And the other way, too, is to be impacted by those people and, you know, the relationships that you have. I mean, you know, there's guys that I've coached over the last 25 years have absolutely impacted me immensely, more than I could ever impact them.
So, you know, you missed the journey. You know, you missed the opportunity to, you know, and share in a lot. A lot of incredible people's lives.
[00:31:58] Speaker A: Do you have any interview tips? I mean, for you personally, getting that next job, but also interviewing assistants, like assistants that are coming in. I'm sure you've interviewed quite a few.
What stands out for a good Interview candidate or things that have helped you along the way from an interview standpoint.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: That'S a really good question.
So I'll give you.
I'll give you my first interview question at a app. Okay, so the person who interviewed me here, Coach Troy Hustas, he was the baseball coach here for a number of years, right before Coach Pollard, and he was the sport administrator for baseball when. When I got here and he was running the. The interview. And so I, I get on a. And I'll get to a point here, I promise. But. So it's a phone interview, and he's. He's an old baseball guy. So he had nine questions, because there's nine innings in baseball. So, you know, introduces everybody on the call. You know, here's an athletic academic representation, here's a player athletic trainer.
So I find out the whole committee.
All right, Coach, I got nine questions for you, because there's nine innings in baseball. And the first question is this. And he asked the question, and I don't really pay much attention to the time, but I, I would say probably somewhere between, you know, 15 to 25 minutes later, I, I'm done answering question one, right? And he says, well, we just knocked out question 1, 3, 7, and 9, so let's move on to question 2, and we'll bounce around here.
So I say that to, to say, this is you. You have to be yourself, right? Like that. I, I think how you choose your words and how you choose to represent yourself and your family, if you're not being authentic, then you've got to remember how you represented yourself at all times.
So if you weren't yourself and got the job, then maybe you weren't made for the job. But if you are yourself and you don't get the job, at least you know that that wasn't where you were supposed to be.
So I think you have to be completely authentic. I think you have to be very, very vulnerable and putting yourself out there for any number of reasons. But whether that is your faith, whether that is how you believe in running a bunt defense, or whether that's, that's how you believe to hit or pitch or recruit or whatever else, because that has to align with where you're going.
Again, whether you're interviewing for a head coaching job or an assistant job or, or really anything in life, forget about even baseball, how you believe in doing it should be exuded in every word that you choose. And quite honestly, for as long as you want to talk about it. And if you spoke too long and they didn't give you the job because of that, then you knew you weren't supposed to get it. And if you didn't speak long enough, I think you have to show your passion and your energy for who you are.
So for me, words are important.
I think that it costs no money for me to truly think about how I'm responding to a player, how I'm responding to an interview question, how I'm responding to a question from you today, or just overall how I'm treating anyone, right? Like whether it's opening the door to my house and how I treat Rebecca and my kids or how I open the locker room door and, you know, react to something that I need to react to or if we're not giving our best effort on the practice field.
Words are important.
How you, you choose them, when you use them, very important. But if they're not, if they're not coming from your heart, then I think it's pointless.
[00:35:55] Speaker A: How do we cultivate accountability? We talked about it a little bit, but obviously if teams aren't exuding that effort that you want or handling things the right way, how do we cultivate accountability?
[00:36:09] Speaker B: You have to tell them what you want. And if you tell them what you want, then you have to hold them to what you said that, that that was whether that's how you run to first base or how you go to class or anything else. Obviously, in the nature of which we're talking about it right now in a sports team, I think it's important to have players that believe that. Same way if, if you don't have, you know, a couple of guys on the inside, so to speak, a couple of your leaders that believe that that's how you play the game or that's how you live your life, or that's how you go to class or that's how you lift weights, then you're only going to get so far. So I think it's important to create, buy in, which is maybe technically what the question is that you're asking me. But I, I think meeting, you know, the two couches that are behind me here in this picture, they got to sit there at some point and, and you got to have some one on ones and whether the kid hears what they wants to hear or doesn't. At least you, you met them, you know, at, at, at the foundational level, which is communication.
You have to tell them that they're not living up to the standard.
There's, if there is a perception of someone, whether that's a perception of me or you or anyone else. The only way that you can change that perception, if you want to, is to know that it exists.
So a lot of times I do, I have found that players think that they are playing hard. They think they're playing harder than they actually are. So, so to tell them that the perception exists that you, you're lazy, you don't treat people well, you do not play hard, you're not a good teammate. I think, I think you have to tell them that.
I think you. But, but if you don't, then there's no way that they can change it now from that point on.
Yeah, it's, it can be hard if there's not buy in, if they, if they never did agree with that or they don't see the value in it. And one thing that we always, you know, remind our kids of is anything that we do on the field or anything that we do in life, specifically the field, it's just the best strategy to win the game, right? Like, we're not just saying play hard because, you know, Earl Weaver said play hard.
It's, it's this old school guy that's sitting there. His dad was a WAR two veteran. He just wants to play hard.
You play hard because it's the best strategy to win the game. Why'd you call that pitch? We called that pitch because it was the best strategy to win the game. Why'd you put on a hit and run? We called the hit run because it was the best strategy to win. That will always be the answer. Now, will you win the game? I don't know. You know, you ground out to short. You know, 99 times you're out, but the one time that you're not, if you're not playing hard, then you'll be out a hundred out of 100 times instead of just 99. And that might be the one that, that helps us win the game. So I do think that you have to teach it more in, in today's age. I think you have to show more examples of why you would do this. Why do you bunt? Why do you hit and run? Why do you, you know, practice timing? Why, you know, why are we seeing breaking balls out of a machine? Why, you know, why is pitch selection important?
You know, why is playing hard important? So I, I think you need to educate, which, in essence is our job. We're teachers.
[00:39:32] Speaker A: Is that probably the thing that you wish incoming players had a little bit more of before they got to you?
[00:39:41] Speaker B: We're very fortunate that we, we get to choose who we Coach.
So, you know, when I coached American Legion ball, that wasn't the case. You know, and, and early on, you know, when, you know, at Belmont Abbey or Lander know you're not getting the five star blue chip baseball players.
So I can't say that we've, that I've always been able to choose or our staff has always been able to choose. Sometimes you're, you're seeing a couple of tools and saying, all right, well, let's, let's go develop the other ones.
And I think as long as you're honest in the recruiting process, then the employee, the, the vital pieces to, however you wanted to define what you and I just got through talking about. Okay. And if we just stayed on toughness or playing hard, I think as long as you're brutally honest and the, the recruiting process like you're, you're as transparent as you can possibly be, then they either choose to play for you or they don't. So at least there's, at least there's on the front end. Well, I don't think that's buying him, but I think that they know right away that this is what is going to be asked of you and more importantly, this is going to be what's required.
And from there then you have, you know, the academic year to actually hold them accountable for those areas and go through good days and bad days or what have you.
But yes, if they showed up with that and everybody had that, then there would probably not be much of a reason for coaching, you know, so, you know, if everybody was smart enough, then they wouldn't go to class.
So I do think that that's part of our job is to create that and to hold them accountable for that. That's kind of the definition of what we do. So if everybody showed up with that, then to a certain degree there'd be nothing to coach or nothing to hold them accountable for.
So that's, that's, that's where I think a lot of the strategies and you know, the word over the last 20 years has been culture.
That's where the strategies and culture come into.
How do you communicate that? And again, if they're not sitting on this couch and you don't have a couple of guys on the inside that believe that that's the way that you do it, then yeah, I think it'd be extremely difficult to do. But yeah, I'd love for them to show up with that.
That'd be awesome.
But that, you know, if, if this is part of our mission field, then everybody's not going to show up with the same qualities. You know, I, I, I hope that every player that ever comes through our, our program, you know, at minimum looks at our coaching staff and says, well, they're great husbands and fathers. Right? And, and they treated me fairly. Right. They held me accountable, but they treated me fairly.
So, you know, are they saying those same, same things about their mother and father? Probably. Right. Like we get a lot of good kids from a lot of good families, but in that, you know, I don't think everybody shows up here a finished product.
So our opportunity to do that, whether that's a one year grad guy or a five year high school guy, I don't think you're going to lose the, the essence of that, of, of what's at the center of, of, of teaching.
[00:43:10] Speaker A: Do you have captains?
[00:43:13] Speaker B: We don't.
[00:43:14] Speaker A: I always, I'm intrigued with that because some still do and, and a lot don't you, you know, because you talked about having guys in the clubhouse. How do you, or does everybody, are you expecting everybody to lead at some point?
[00:43:27] Speaker B: Yeah, that's there, there's a lot there to unpack.
I, I've started, I've started having breakfast every other week with two guys on our team, one position player and one pitcher and just, you know, talking about something as simple as like, hey, here's the next two weeks of our schedule.
And then, you know, just leaving it open for them to, you know, hey, what's on the academic calendar that might be, might be stressing some guys out? You know, what is, you know, what are things that, you know, need to happen over, you know, the next few weeks? And even talking about both of these guys are returning, you know, how, how do we handle meals on the road? You know, are you guys getting enough to eat? You know, what, which hotels did you prefer to stay in?
You know, what are, you know, what are some travel strategies that make you guys more rested when we get there than when we don't? You know, what are the, what are the intangible things of what's going on in the weight room? What's going on?
You know, because I do think if the head coach has to monitor everything, then you probably don't have a very good environment for creating success. So, you know, what are the areas that, you know, need improvement and, and things of that nature?
So, you know, and just, just big picture stuff, you know, like maybe, I don't know, that somebody's sister is going through something back home, you know, like something off the field. A class that's extremely difficult or something in that realm. So that opens up the opportunity for them to. To tell me that. And. But I think over the, you know, again, over 25 years, I think I probably always had that to a certain degree, just without anything formal, you know, just being relatable because guys know it's, it's very. It's going to be very upfront that guys know that they're not coming in here talking about another player, because I'm not going to do that with them, right? Like, they're not going to come into my office and, you know, hey, Ryan, you know, what's going on with John, you know, you know, John's not practicing hard, not getting along. That's not going to happen. Right? So I think that they've always, there's. It's always been established from, you know, 24 years old through being 48 now, like, that's always been established that this isn't going to be gossip corner, right? Like, we're not going to sit around. But somebody had a legitimate thing about a player. I've always felt like they brought it in to me, you know, and again, not in the essence of talking trash, because hopefully you. We have promoted as a coaching staff that we're going to be fair care in. In the ways that we do things. And they know the difference between gossip and, and something that's going on, right? Like, hey, he's. He's having a hard time with his professor. You know, maybe you could get involved like, and, and you come up with strategies to get involved without, you know, somebody knowing that somebody came in and said something. So you're never throwing, you're never saying, hey, John came in today and he told me about what, what's going on, Ryan, you know, like, so, so I don't think it's ever been like that, but, but hopefully again, culturally, environmentally, whatever, I think, I think guys have known that over the years. And, and as I become a parent, you know, those spidey senses that you. The spidey tingle that you get as a, as a parent, a lot of times, you know, you know, a lot of times you can just go around and, you know, I try to. I try to make some form of bodily and verbal engagement with a player every day. Every guy on the team, whether it's just a dap or a butt slap or a ch bump or, you know, something along those lines where I want to get face to face and at minimum say, how you doing today?
And I think you get a lot in that 10 to 15 seconds. You know, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna have bad body language or no eye contact or, you know, you're gonna get somebody who's excited and, you know, excited to be on the field. And I think from there it's, it's up to us to, you know, communicate with the people that are around him every day. Again, trainers, strength coaches, academic coaches, saying, hey, what's going on? Have you guys anything here? And just calling them in and see what's going on.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: I got an opportunity to interact with you at the USA Community Clinic over at Lenore. I want to say, probably three falls ago. Are you still heavily involved with outfield?
[00:47:50] Speaker B: I do. I coach our outfielders and am involved with our hitters as well. Yep.
[00:47:56] Speaker A: Love it. I feel like catching an outfield probably have made the most improvements from a coaching standpoint over the last 10 years. Years.
[00:48:03] Speaker B: No. That's awesome. Yeah, I think they're the, the positions that, you know, that maybe for, you know, when you and I played were maybe the most forgotten about to a certain degree. It's like, hey, go catch the fly ball and behind the plate, hey, catch the ball. You know, and.
But yeah, I think, I think they're, they're incredibly important. And I do think that, you know, over the last, you know, number of years, it seems like, you know, three different topics have really come up in a lot of things. Culture, right. Of championship programs, catching, and technology. I think that those are probably the, the three areas that have probably been most talked about over the last number of years. And usually technology is towards the pitching.
But yeah, I, I agree with you that it's getting way more, way more pub than it ever has.
[00:48:59] Speaker A: How many of you guys use traditional or pro step in the outfield?
Or is it dependent on the individual?
[00:49:07] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I, since, since Pedroia, I really dove into a lot of the stuff with the Pedroia hop with, with the Enfield a number of years ago. So this is probably, I don't know, 15 some odd years ago in terms of like, like what we wanted our prep steps to be in the infield, and that's really filtered over into the outfield. And I think a lot of things that happen out of that are really just natural. I think my job is, you know, to create, to create hips that can rotate and run in different patterns to make sure that they're seeing the ball and reacting as quickly as possible.
And then from there, this may sound like very, very elementary, but from there, to truly see the ball go into the glove I think too many times mistakes are made because we take our eyes off of the ball and the glove and look up to a runner. You know, the bases haven't moved in about 140 years, so there's no reason to pick our eyes up. Like, and for using our senses, we have a pretty good idea of where the baserunner is going to be and where the cut guy is going to be. So. So, you know, for me, prep is really important both in, like, how are we warming up the hips and how are we truly prepping with the ball on the way to home plate.
And the way we teach it through the Pedroia hop is we want to be in midair and slightly on our way down when the ball is crossing the hitting zone. And from that point, I think everything is reaction. So. So technically, the ball will be put in play prior to us hitting the ground or not put in play prior to us hitting the ground, which allows us for no false steps.
And then from there, obviously, we want to keep our eyes on the target as long as possible, hopefully into our glove. If not getting to the baseball and getting it back to the middle guys as quick as possible. And there's specific routes or what have you. But to.
I don't know.
I. I don't know that there's like, that I'm sold or I'm like, hey, you have to do this.
I really just want to make sure that, you know, I'm creating as much.
As much mobility in the hips as possible, and then I want to create the fastest reaction time possible, which mostly comes out of focus. And then at the end of the catch, you know, if we had this one thing li outlying this that prevented us from getting to the catch a lot, then I think there'd be a lot of teach in that. But for me, I think when, if we're, if we're reacting right and our body's prepared to. To react right, then again, fortunate to have some good athletes that can go cover some ground and making sure they see the ball into their glove before they try to get rid of it.
[00:51:57] Speaker A: Have you adjusted to roster management this fall?
[00:52:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's adjusting. Let's. Let's use that, that term, adjusting. And, and honestly, we have never been the school that carries more than what we're allowed.
I, I have.
I. I could get really get on a soapbox about that, but, you know, it. We're always going to be within what the NCAA allows us to be, so. So to a certain degree, yes, we had to adjust to it, but I Don't think it was a huge, huge deal because we don't really go over all that much in a total roster size.
And we managed it throughout. As the rumors started getting bigger, we really managed who we were committing or not committing or the offers that we were putting out.
And all the while that that was going on, the Pavia rule was coming.
We were even more hesitant to reach out until we kind of got down the line. And there's some that we couldn't do anything about, but there were a few that we could control. And you know, the DSA provided an opportunity for us to even control our roster even farther than that.
But yeah, I think we did a good job of it. I think we.
But again, it wasn't like we had to tell 20 guys they couldn't come here because we had this humongous recruiting class because we were managing it the whole time. Love it.
[00:53:33] Speaker A: Has your fall calendar developed much over the years? Have you changed it much from what you're.
[00:53:38] Speaker B: We did this year. This year we moved it up. Yeah, we have Obviously, I guess 2. Half of our coaching staff is new within the last two years. So Britt and I obviously have been together for 16 years. And then Ross Steedley, who is the first, first former Division 1 head coach that I've ever had on my coaching staff. So he's the first head coach that I've ever had that I've ever shared a coaching staff with, which has been incredible, an incredible resource. And then Heath Blackman, who's our new pitching coach.
So I think you're always listening to your staff in regards to how they think that it should be done. So we're putting some emphasis on the month of November for the weight room because the calendar for us is, is really not set up to have a period of time that makes a ton of gains in the weight room. Right. So because we're just so competitive in the fall, so we moved our calendar up two weeks so that we're. We're in full fledged team practice and we'll end at the end of October and then the month of November before we go home for Thanksgiving and exams will be really, really heavy weight room for what we do. So up until that point. Point. No, it, it, it hasn't.
[00:54:56] Speaker A: So you got right. Did you get right into it as soon as school started?
[00:55:00] Speaker B: About two weeks.
[00:55:01] Speaker A: Two weeks. You gave him the two weeks and then you got into it. That's more of a Midwest scenario. Honestly. A lot of schools in the Midwest because more weather than anything.
So are you doing much strength and conditioning then right now?
[00:55:14] Speaker B: All ton. Yeah. I mean, you still got to try balance of all. Yeah, you still gotta try. No, we're. We're getting after it. We. We. You know, we spent those two weeks and again, this.
You know, the air. Boone, North Carolina, is an awesome place to be, so our guys spend a lot of time here even when school's not in session. So a lot of those guys are lifting. You know, I'd say we probably had 20 guys here from July 1 on.
You know, maybe they'll go home for a week here there, but.
So even those two weeks, getting into the fall, it was a. It was a continuation. It wasn't necessarily. Like, we only had two weeks in the weight room.
[00:55:54] Speaker A: It's still my favorite picture of all time. When the Leafs start changing with your stadium, it's still. Yeah, it's still my favorite baseball picture of all time.
[00:56:02] Speaker B: When you. When you go through something like that again, especially with the Division 2 background. Right. I'm so. I'm very, very budget conscious about everything, so you have something that substantial, which, up until that point in my lander was building that new facility before I got there, so I didn't really have a whole lot to do. I might say, hey, let's put netting there instead of fencing or something like that. But our athletic director and president, they were running the ship. The ship. And they did a great job. So this was really the first time in my career. So I guess probably like 16, 17 years into the career, I'm like, hey, here's a. Here's a re. Turf. You know, like, so you're designing everything. And, you know, to be honest, it was, you know, you're. You're staying up at night a little bit, making sure you're picking the right colors and right logos and the right sizes and, you know, what are we doing? The dugouts. And so when it. When it did go viral that first time, there was. There was a little bit of relief that, like, okay, everybody else thinks this looks good, too. So I appreciate you saying that.
[00:57:06] Speaker A: Are you playing outside competitions this fall?
[00:57:09] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll have two home games. We'll play North Carolina and T, and then ECU will come up on the mountain.
[00:57:14] Speaker A: You guys are in a great area for. For scheduling, by the way, all the North Carolina schools. It's just you have a lot of options to schedule your midweek stuff.
[00:57:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you can get a top hundred RPI team within two hours, you know, very, very easily. So we're. We're very Fortunate. And, you know, we're fortunate to be very close to Tennessee as well.
[00:57:35] Speaker A: Well, it's tough, too, though. You got a ton of options to try to make that work. You got, you know, it's almost like, be careful what you wish for because you have a lot of options. But then it's like you have so many options, like, who do you schedule?
[00:57:47] Speaker B: That's right. Yeah. And. And I think we've fallen into a pretty good pattern here with, you know, regulating, you know, and a lot of times the midweeks for me come down to, you know, just making sure we're rested, you know, or, you know, what is. What is the most convenient trip that we can take that can have us?
I think 23.
We had 20, 23 here. We had a pretty good year. And it's the first year, and I guess the six previous years that we had not had one trip where we got back home after midnight. First trip, our first. First year we'd ever had that. And that was.
I have to think that it had a lot of difference in our season.
We tried to do it the next year as well, and I think we had maybe two trips that got us back past midnight night. And it's challenging for sure. But it's nice to. To your point. It's nice to know that you're. You're playing good competition within those windows.
[00:58:43] Speaker A: But now you're spread out with your league. So how are you managing?
You know, say you get back late Sunday. You practicing Monday. If you have a Tuesday midweek game, are you giving them Monday off and playing on Tuesday? Are you playing mostly Wednesday games?
[00:58:57] Speaker B: You just got to have some feel. Yeah, I mean, it's.
There's no rule to it. I don't think that there's this thing where, hey, we're going to do. This is going to be our schedule for the year. I think you got to feel it out. You go extra innings on Sunday, you had to play doublehead on Saturday, and then a single game on Sunday.
I think it's just strictly a field thing.
And you get done with the end of the year, and you look back and you try to, you know, think, okay, did I make the right decision here or here?
And I don't think you always do. I don't think you always look back and say, yeah, we probably shouldn't have practiced on that day, or we shouldn't have practiced on that day. But you just got to manage it. You got. You got to have a feel for the academic calendar. You got to have a feel for, you know, what's going on in kids lives. And you know, who played that entire doubleheader, who played that, you know, extra inning game on Sunday. And maybe you're splitting it up. Maybe the guys that didn't play or having a full fledged practice and maybe the guys that did are hanging out in the dugout, you know, and they sit down instead of going to play defense during bp.
But I will say that it's really hard to expect your offense to do anything on Monday if they don't at least get moving on Monday if they're not seeing a little bit of a challenging environment offensively. So we have had periods where Monday is a position player practice and Wednesday is a pitcher practice.
We've done that before. But still your Monday practice isn't like, like your foot's not on the gas the whole time. You, you want to make what's check what needs to be challenging. Challenging.
[01:00:35] Speaker A: What'd you get out of coaching in the summer 2022 with USA the developer?
[01:00:40] Speaker B: Well, I made reference to this earlier and actually almost said it when I was answering this question earlier is I've. I've only been assistant for nine months of 25 years. So to be an assistant was really awesome. You know, there I. I'd be sitting on the bus wondering if the head coach was going to stand up and say something and, and a couple of times I did and I'm getting off the bus, he's like, hey, if you could, you know, we're always going to meet here, you know. And so it was, it was really cool to not know as much as the head coach and to be slightly frustrated by that. So that when I got back here and it was nothing that he did wrong. Right.
[01:01:23] Speaker A: It was just like that's part of being an assistant.
[01:01:25] Speaker B: Well, that just comes. Yeah. And I hope that I know everything that's going on here and I might not, but it was such an awesome experience for me to come back in.
They put me in charge of a couple of things. They didn't ask me any questions prior to going into this and they just said, hey, you need to be here and teach this.
So it was really, really cool to, you know, be in an environment where I had to go teach things that I didn't necessarily sign off for in the first place. Right. Like they put me in charge of. Charge of leads at first base or bunting or leads at second base. And here's 45 minutes with the top hundred players in the country talking about leads at second.
And it's 97 degrees out. They. They did not want to talk about leads at second base, right? So how. How do I make this fun, right? Like, how do. How do I, you know, make fun of them or, you know, allow yourself some vulnerability to, you know, be made fun of and, you know, with kids, kids that didn't know me before, 30 minutes before that drill and might not even be on my team for that week, so really might not know me, but it was cool to be in the circle with again, it wasn't just me, it was me and another coach. So having no idea what they coach, like, is this their expertise? Is this my expertise?
So to be able to work off of each other and to bring them into something, and I got to work with Ro Coleman at getting leads and obviously one of the best baserunners, at least in our area of watching college baseball, you know, for, you know, played for Tim Corbin, you know, one of the best coaches of all time, you know, so being able to lean on him but also understand that he wasn't. It wasn't that far in his coaching journey yet. So he was technically, you know, just kind of getting out of playing. And so to be able to bring, you know, 20 plus years of experience into, you know, 15 months of coaching experience, but that they know Ro a lot more than they know me, that was fun, you know, and. And again, watching the talent on the field and bringing. Being able to bring small little intricacies to maybe something that I was seeing, because it's not like in that in a week I'm going to make this humongous impact on like how they feel to ground ball or how their swing or what have you. But I can give, you know, some quick feedback on flips in the cage or how they're playing or being the first base coach, helping them to pick up a tendency on a pitcher, and it was, honestly, it was incredible. It was. It was something that, at that juncture in my career, it's one of those things, like, I say this to my wife sometimes I'll come home and she'll have made this meal and it might be a random meal and I'll get done with it. I'll be like, babe, I had no idea what I wanted to eat tonight, but that was exactly it, you know, that was awesome. That hit the spot and I couldn't have. I wouldn't have told you in a million years that that's what I wanted tonight, but that's what I needed. And I wouldn't have known that that's what I needed at that point in my coaching career, but it's exactly what I needed.
It was so, so rewarding for. To be able to be around those types of coaches, those types of players, that organization, and to give me so much feedback from how they're running their, you know, how are they acting in the hotel? Like, what are, what, what is the training staff doing in the hotel? Like, what kind of meals are we eating? What kind of, you know, what kind of to go meals are we getting on the way to the field when we're at the field, you know, what is our pregame routine and things of, of that nature. And it was, it was very, very rewarding. So fortunate to have and, and bigger than that is, you know, to have USA on your chest and on your hat.
That was something that I, that I always kind of wanted, you know, always had a desire to represent our country, even in, you know, a player development series.
I've always wanted the honor, honor of being able to do that. So that was, you know, above and beyond anything that I could have ever imagined. And to watch what a lot of these players have gone on to do has been pretty cool, too.
[01:05:34] Speaker A: It's fun to coach somebody else's players for a little bit, too.
[01:05:38] Speaker B: It is, it is.
[01:05:39] Speaker A: Charge the battery. Plus you can pick up stuff from them, too.
[01:05:42] Speaker B: Sure, sure. Yeah. And yeah, it's, you know, I think you get so much feedback. Like I said, the players that I've coached for 25 years, I would never be able to make an impact like they've made on me. And you know, in a week like that where again, you're with incredible coaches, you're, you're with hall of Fame baseball players that are on the coaching staff. You, you're with the head of USA Baseball.
All of those things, man. I mean, you know, I think when you're sitting there and you realize what's around you, you choose your words really wisely, you make sure you're not wasting anybody's time. Time. If you're giving a player eval, which we did every night, you're making sure you're, again, nobody's spinning their wheels. And what you say, you realize that they're not going to listen to you the rest of the week unless you say something pretty valuable.
So I, I think you're able to really hone it in on, hey, we're trying to go win the world.
We're trying to go in a, a world. We're, we're winning the world on this, right? We want a gold medal. So, so Just because the player's kind of good, that doesn't win the world, right? Like, what is his character?
How hard does he play?
How did he do it? Base running, how did he do it? Bunning, how, how engaged was he? Because if you're going to win the world, you probably got to have a good attitude at that as well. So in terms of streamlining what it is that you're looking for in player development, I thought it was awesome, but I could speak about that for a long, long time. Those super, super rewarding.
[01:07:17] Speaker A: What does winning this award, receiving this award mean to you?
[01:07:24] Speaker B: You know, when you, when you start looking around at the people that you've always looked at and realizing that in some small way you're, you're, you're in a sentence with them, it means a lot.
It's.
I really don't know how, how something like this can even, I don't know. Just looking at this 25 year journey and the people that I've looked up to and the person that I'm getting this award with. I mean, I've driven to Carson Newman to watch Tom Griffin's practice when I was a young coach.
I mean, if I don't talk to him every week, I talk to him every other week.
And you know, the, the things that I take away from him. He's one of the finest baseball coaches in America.
You know, my, my coaching staff that I've had for a long time, like I talked about Chris Anderson and Brit Johnson and, and Ross Stigley and you know, the administrators that I've had over the years, you know, I was, again, I was a head coach at 24. That takes somebody to see something in that, you know, and my athletic director at the time, Elaine Keeby at Belmont Abbey, to get that opportunity to even start this journey, to even be on this podcast. But my athletic director at Lander, Jeff May, and the president there at the time, Dan Ball, you ask like, what are the things that were, what are the qualities of those teams that were good, right? Like, what started it out? And if, if you're not allowed to be yourself, if, if, if my current athletic director and sport administrator and chancellor, Doug Gill and Jonathan Reeder and Heather north, course, they don't allow me to be who I am, then, then it doesn't matter what I am, right? Like, and it doesn't matter the, the culture that is trying to be instilled or the environment that is trying to be created. So all of the people that have allowed me to be, hopefully, who George And Sue Ellen raised and to learn from Rusty Strap and to learn from, you know, so many great coaches and players over the years.
I mean, it's just Keith Madison on a Bible study every Monday morning with guy named Mike lynch and a scout named Kevin Burrell.
The, the people that continue to pour into other people.
It's, it's incredibly humbling to, to think that this could even, that this could even be whispered. I would have never thought it 25 years ago and obviously a lot's happened in those 25 years to even have me on this podcast, it's, it's surreal to be honest, and it's, it's a great honor.
[01:10:43] Speaker A: Do you have a fail forward moment? Something you thought was going to set you back, but looking back now, it helped you move forward. Could be professionally or personally.
[01:10:52] Speaker B: Oh, man.
Yeah. Those first few years at Belmont Abbey were very challenging.
You know, the, the amount of scholarships and the limited budget and being 24, I mean.
Yeah. And I think just the, the fact that, that, that administration backed me through mistakes to even allow me to keep being a coach and specifically to be the head coach there.
You know, I don't know how much you know about Belmont Abbey, but it's actually got a monastery on campus. It's a great campus. Yeah, it's incredible.
And you know, I was still am friends with some of the monastery, the, the, the monks that, that teach there and work there.
And I was just really, for. My dad always used to say that he was so glad of where I, where I was coaching because of the people that were around me at that time.
But I don't know that it was a moment. I think it was a series of moments that, you know, kind of punched me in the mouth and said, hey, idiot, you're here for more than just baseball. Right? Like, it's, it's, it's not all about wins and losses. It's, you know, it, you know, and, and I think I was saying all those things at that time. You know, I was telling kids to go to class and I was telling kids to get good grades and I was telling kids to do community service. And.
But I, but asking that and then living that is, I think, two different things.
And I probably got into a place where I don't even think community services is important as serving your community.
You know, I think that if we're training this generation right, then a community service activity is going to Walmart and seeing an elderly person struggling to get their groceries in the car and just helping them out and taking the Grocery cart back. Right. Like, so that's a long evolution of again, the last 25 years of doing this that I think there's saying what you want done and then I think there's embodying and modeling what it is that you want.
And, and that those series of moments over time is why I think that administrations deserve so much credit for places that are successful and coaches that are successful that allow people to lead authentically. And if it's not allowed, then I think series of things like this can't happen.
Teams can't go to the World Series and they can't go to regionals and they can't do stuff that's never been done at that school before.
It has to be backed all the way to the top.
[01:13:49] Speaker A: Emotional safety.
Yeah, that's what it is now. And you look at the surveys of this generation of kids, like emotional safety is like a big one for their generation. And that goes back to being. If you're comfortable with being your authentic self, you do feel emotionally safe in the environment that you're in.
[01:14:08] Speaker B: Yeah. And the empowerment to do that is everything. I mean it really is the empowerment and how comfortable you feel and being your authentic self is everything.
[01:14:22] Speaker A: Has your morning or evening routines changed much or evolved over the years?
[01:14:26] Speaker B: Years, absolutely. Yeah. I've got three kids and I try to get them to school every morning so early on. I, I did not.
[01:14:32] Speaker A: What are the ages?
[01:14:34] Speaker B: 11, 15 and 18.
[01:14:36] Speaker A: You're right in it. Yeah, right in it.
[01:14:38] Speaker B: So, yeah, I probably get to work later than any other Division 1 coach in the country.
[01:14:44] Speaker A: I highly doubt it. You know, but you don't know. I, that's for a good reason though. That's for a tremendous reason.
[01:14:50] Speaker B: Well, it's.
Yeah. So my daughter has to be at school by, let's just say 7:30 and every morning. And my son has to be. He's in high school and he has to be at school by 8:30 every morning. So usually I'll take my daughter and drop her off and we're listening to a completely different genre of music than when I dropped my son off at high school, so. And you let them pick.
What's that?
[01:15:14] Speaker A: They get to pick the music.
[01:15:16] Speaker B: Yeah. I've gotten to where we can. My son, my 15 year old Beckett.
Music taste is. It's, it is elite.
So we're, we're good there.
My daughter, she and I find a way to meet halfway. I probably go a little bit closer to her than my halfway. But yeah, it's.
We find a way to make it Work.
[01:15:42] Speaker A: What are some final thoughts before I let you go?
[01:15:45] Speaker B: You know, just thankful to, to be talking to you today again. You look at this entire journey and you know, the fact that we, we could be on something like this, talking about baseball and talking about an award as prestigious as this and it including me, you know, just, just, it's such an honor to just be on this podcast. Quite honestly, you know, very thankful for the support of my family.
Without Rebecca, I don't know how any of this would take place.
The longer you stay in this kind of, the harder it gets. And if you're not walking back into a good clubhouse back home, then it's almost an impossible standard to uphold. Whether you're talking about wins or morals or ethics or how kids act or getting a 4.0 or even graduating from college without that support system of, you know, your administration or your family, when you walk in the house each night, it's impossible. So, you know, I just, I encourage, you know, anyone that is, is in this and is going to do this for a really, really long time, just be yourself.
If you're not yourself, then you can't be anything else. And it may be important to know how to teach the best swing and how to teach the best grip on slider or, you know, how to run first base the perfect way. But if you're not authentic in who you are, then they're not going to listen to you and they're not going to care.
So I think that would probably be my final thought.
[01:17:32] Speaker A: Did Rebecca know what she was getting into before you got married?
[01:17:36] Speaker B: I don't know that I did, so I don't know. I don't know how she could.
[01:17:40] Speaker A: It's a great topic though. It really is. I need to it have, have a baseball wives podcast at some point. It's been in my notes for a couple years to actually do one because since I was in it and lived it with my mom. But I mean, how has your guys relationship evolved over the years to make it work? It's not an easy thing to do to have a thriving relationship in the baseball community.
[01:18:03] Speaker B: Number one, if you notice the first answer I gave you on what was the biggest difference between Division 1 and Division 2 is that we spend more time on the road, you know, so they're in less double headers, which means less days or more days on the road.
So I think that that was a, that was a big jump.
You know, obviously there's a wider range of people that pay attention to the success or lack thereof of our program.
And I think with that comes, you know, more. More.
More noise, you know, whether, again, that's social media or in the stands or, you know, through emails or phone calls or whatever the case is.
So I think through that, there. There has. There has been a.
A greater realization of what she and I have at the core of who we are.
You know, our. We've shared good days and bad days, you know, with a lot more vulnerability than we did over the previous few years. And.
But, yeah, and I'd say before that, we were, again, very much like that. But, you know, when you go into something that you're viewed kind of a bigger lens, I think that you have the opportunity to support each other more than that. And obviously, you know, getting to know, you know, again, as Britt's family has grown, he's got twin. Twin boys and a little girl. And my wife, I think, thinks that she is like a mother to those. Those kids as well. So it's. It's been cool to, you know, just. Just watch our family grow through our coaching staff and our coaching staff's families.
That. That's been a pretty cool thing. And to watch her do that and. And obviously just the nature of life is, know, our families, our extended families have gotten older, you know, since she and I have been together.
Since she and I have been together, I've lost my dad and I've lost my mom.
And to watch her love on, you know, my dad and my mom.
I tell you what, buddy, that's. That's. That's as real and vulnerable and authentic as it gets. So, you know, know the support doesn't always just come through coaching. The. The support comes through life. The support comes through, you know, as we get older, we experience different things through loss of family or our family's aging. So I would say probably our biggest evolution over.
We're about a month away from being married for 20 years now, and the biggest evolution is just like. Like when we've had to buckle down and do life together, you know, she pulls the socks up and laces on tight and she's. She. She doesn't back away from any of that. And that's.
That's who you want to do. That's who you want to go to battle with, you know? Yep.
[01:21:19] Speaker A: Thanks for your time, Kermit. Appreciate you.
[01:21:21] Speaker B: I appreciate you.
[01:21:23] Speaker A: Thank you. I love Coach Smith's mantra of being your true, authentic self. There's a much needed message today in society. It's a common theme among many of our ABCA podcast guests on being true. To yourself and be who you are. Congrats to Kerman on this well deserved honor. Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale, Matt Weston, the ABCA office. For all the help on the podcast, feel free to reach out to me via email rbronleyabca.org Twitter, Instagram or TikTok, coachbrabca or direct message me via the MyABC app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off for the American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks and leave it better for those behind you Wait for another.
[01:22:21] Speaker B: Way will always return and your life was never for yearning and you know that way Wait for another day.
