[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the ABCA's podcast. I'm your host Ryan Brownlee.
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This week on the ABCA podcast is 2024 ABC hall of Fame Class Inductee and ABCA ATEC NCAA Division 3 Coach of the Year UW Whitewater Head Coach John Bodenlitsch Bodenlitsch has now led UW Whitewater three national championships.
The Warhawks were 49. 6 and posted video game numbers with a.360.14 batting average and.336 team ERA.
Get your pad and pen ready because this episode is full of great coaching and life advice. Let's welcome John Bodenlich to the podcast.
All right here with John Bodenlich, ABCA ATEC Division 3 coach of the year, but also ABCA hall of famer UW Whitewater, I think heading in his 22nd season now, but three national championships and got it rolling over there. So congrats.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: Thank you. Thanks for having me on. Appreciate it.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: Did last year getting beat in the championship series, did that help this year's team?
[00:03:38] Speaker B: Yeah, of course.
You know, I mean, it's somewhat of a cliche and you know, as a coach, you're always looking for some extra motivation, you know, for, for your men. But I think they, they, they did it on themselves. I mean, when we lost that game, as soon, as soon as we were done with the awards ceremony last year, the guys already started talking about, you know, all right, we're coming back next year, we're going to win it. And, and that wouldn't be the first time I've heard people talk like that, you know, but it's one thing to say and one thing to do it. So I'm really impressed with what they did.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: Was the makeup similar of this year's team. I mean, just the stats are gaudy. Like, they're like, it's almost like not believable because it's like.364 team batting average, a below four team ERA and then.970 fielding percentage.
It was, it, was it make makeup similar of this year's roster as last year's roster?
[00:04:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it was, it was very close. There was a couple key losses, but those areas filled in pretty well. So, I mean, the vast majority of those guys that were starting had been on the team the year before.
So, you know, and once again, you know, if you, that's, I think, another overused theory, you know, hey, we got everyone coming back. You know, if I, if, if I had a dollar for every time someone told me that and had a bad year, I'd be rich, man. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's good to have people coming back.
But, but what they did was, was remarkable. So, and then of course we had some key people step in, in spots that, that we had to fill. So it was, it was for the most part though, the same type of team.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: How do you keep players from getting complacent like that or just taking it for granted? Well, we got a lot back. How do you keep players away from that complacency or thinking it's going to be easy because we've got everybody back?
[00:05:26] Speaker B: Well, Certainly how we, how the coaches react and interact with them matters.
You know, not, not acting like, hey man, you've reached the promised land.
You know, you could be very low key in practice.
We try to make sure we keep on edge. I mean, just remind them gently that that last year was over and this was a new year. And then of course that doesn't work unless you have the right mindset.
Each player, each player, I mean, we had a remarkable group, you know, responsible, intelligent, hardworking, you know, they were all those things whether we did something or not. But yeah, we definitely tried to make sure we gave them gentle reminders along the way that, you know, whatever you thought you did last year, that's not helping us anymore this year, this is a new year, we're going to have to work at it. And for the most part, our upperclassmen really led the way.
[00:06:25] Speaker A: Do you have any keys for pitching development? I mean, almost every one of your starters was at a three or below. Do you have keys for pitching development?
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Yeah, and I, I walk gently around that, that topic because I don't want to step on too many toes. But, but if, in general, if you look at what's happening, I think in the bay, in the game, when it comes to pitching, you're seeing an over emphasis of velocity. Everyone's trying to chase velocity. And over the last 10 to 15 years we've reduced pitch ability because of it. I mean, I'm not completely against plow balls, I'm not completely against, you know, using that water can and I'm not completely against long toss, I'm not completely against any of those things. But you know, you could, I've seen some great 300 foot long toss guys that can't pitch. I've seen plenty of guys crush a pull down into a net or whatever and not be able to pitch. So you know, at the center of our, I think, philosophy is that we're going to put a ball in their hand as often as we can safely and we're going to require them to pitch. And pitching, even a bullpen is not quite pitching. So we're always trying to notch up the intensity in those bullpens and things of that nature. But I mean, long and the short of it is people aren't pitching enough anymore.
They're chasing this velo thing and so they're throwing the heck out of the ball, you know, once or twice a week and they're not getting enough time on the mounted pitch. And I remember when I was a young coach and all the scouts Used to say, oh yeah, get them on the hill, get them on the hill. And I was like, man, there's more to this than just old school. Put them on the hill and throw a bullpen. But, but I think, you know, the sweet spot somewhere in between there, right? I mean, all the things we're doing to develop velocity, there's nothing wrong and I'm not opposed to that. But I do think that at the center of our philosophy, like I said, is you got to be able to pitch. And we spend a lot of time on crafting guys who understand how to pitch instead of just being metric driven.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: In that seven days week schedule for a pitcher, are they throwing multiple bullpens during the week?
[00:08:40] Speaker B: We sure hope so.
We hope we're hope so. Every. I mean, I'll give you a little talk on our fall. In our fall, we're only going to be together three times a week.
And all three of those days will go through the full gamut of what we want, which would include some type of live bullpen performance.
Every day, Every day. And sometimes in the spring, it's four days a week where we're. And maybe one day is a really light, light body day, but if we're together four day, five days a week, and one's a non really throwing day, the other four days we're picking up a ball and we're throwing, we're doing target practice, that might be, that might be to, you know, bullpen. It might be a, it might be a simulated scrimmage, it might be whatever we can create. But yeah, the more, the more frequently we can put the ball in their hand, the better it is for us. And I do think that to manage loads, I'd rather have low loads and high frequency than high loads once or twice a week because look, you don't get better at something unless you do it. So I know you're really good at long toss. Great, that's great for you. But that doesn't help us win games. And, and I think that's part of the overall philosophy that's going on in the game that, that I'm struggling with a little bit. Nothing against the metrics, nothing against velocity. You know, the funny thing is our, our pitchers over the, the last 25 years, 25, 26 years, they've averaged in the first year in our program three to six miles an hour of bump in their velocity. So it's not like we don't like it.
It's just not our highest priority. We need to win games and in order to do that, you got to know how to pitch.
[00:10:24] Speaker A: Do you think that's the beauty of Division 3? Because you are with them three times a week, but obviously your players are working on their own. Do you feel like that kind of maybe develops a self driven, self motivated kid because they are going to have to work on their own sometimes?
[00:10:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it does. And you know, there's a lot of changes going on in baseball right now, as you know, but I'm very fortunate to be at the level we're at and I've, you know, we've, we've looked at other options and you know, I've had interviews and the whole thing, but I'm, I'm very happy the level we're at and that this level is even changing. But number one, you're starting with a really solid individual that is there for the love of the game. They want to be there, they're highly driven because they really want to be treated like they're at lsu. And we try to give them as close to a really reputable Division one, you know, kind of experience. But yeah, there, there's, there's a lot I'm not dealing with because we're, we're.
[00:11:23] Speaker A: At D3 school and then 80 year regular position players were hitting.340 or above and you guys averaged over 10 runs a game.
[00:11:32] Speaker B: We hit a lot. We hit a lot.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: But that's been kind of your, that's been Whitewater's kind of MO too, though, right? Over the course of your. You guys have always hit, correct?
[00:11:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No, we've been good hitters and we've been good pitchers and you know, I guess at the center of what we try to do as well is, I mean, if we can play catch better than the opposing team, if we can be fundamentally sound all the way around and then let our talent play, I think we're going to win more than we lose. And we do hit a lot. We do believe in that a lot.
We focus on our catch play.
We really spend a lot of time with our pitchers. I mean, I'm at that. I'm, I've relegated some of the stuff to one of, one of my assistants and then a volunteer and, and the volunteers are, you know, former major leaguer. But these two guys do an exceptional job. But I'm involved in every day with them. I mean, we, you know, I guess out of my 26 year career, I've been the pitching coach probably for 22 of the years. Right. So I'm in a really good spot Because I have some really quality, you know, pitching minds with me. But we're, we're separating them because we want to make sure we're, we're watching them and we're giving them all the resources. I mean, if you think of the normal template, if pitching is that important, why do you usually relegate it to one pitching coach? Meanwhile, you got three guys hitting fungos and two guys throwing bp, but there's only one guy down there all by himself. So I think, I think pitching has to be put, you know, in a, in a special place because it's so.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: Important and you're a lifelong learner. You're always trying to add new things. Did you adjust anything training wise in the fall and the spring?
[00:13:16] Speaker B: Well, first of all, yeah, the fall and the spring are very different in what we're trying to achieve.
You know, in the fall, if we're going to make any mechanical or movement changes, we're going to do that in the fall.
Whether it's with our hitters or fielders, you know, our throwing, you know, arm path or something like that. If we're going to play with anything, it's going to be in the fall. So that's definitely different than, than the spring. And you know, we've gone through our cycles. I mean, we still, we use metrics. I mean, we have two rapsodos, we have plenty of guns. You know, we believe in, in spin rates and, and you know, no one has really developed a great way of increasing spin rate.
But.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: But that is illegal.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Well, that is. Right, right. There are ways, but now they're checking us. So.
But you know, but you know, from a profile standpoint, being able to look at the metrics and the data, you know, to kind of find out what they might be able to do for us, I mean, we're all into all that stuff. For eight years we did a weighted ball program and I disbanded it after eight years because I thought, number one, our velocity was not seeing a better improvement than what we had been doing, number one. And number two, I thought we were losing ability to pitch.
I mean, you're throwing a, you're throwing some type of weighted plyo or some other ball and you're probably throwing it maybe 10ft, you know, right straight ahead. You're not sure if it's a strike. It feels like a strike. You think it's a strike. You even put an X on the wall. That's a great job. But at the end of the day, you don't have any idea whether or not it ended in the right spot. So that feedback is an important thing.
But getting back to your question, we've adjusted a lot throughout our years, but the fall is much different than the spring. In the fall, we're trying to give them an opportunity to make some adjustments and changes, and we're trying to be there, you know, to push them in that direction.
[00:15:10] Speaker A: And I wasn't the World Series this year, but I was there two years ago. I really thought you guys were going to win it. I was there the first three days, and I really felt like you guys were going to win it last year, too.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, I think that's a, That's a great example.
I'm sorry, I'm getting a call here.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: It's all good.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: You know, I learned a lot.
My Misericordia. You know, I'll be the first to admit, I mean, you look at them and you watch them swing, and you're not overly impressed.
And that's just another example that metrics don't win games.
Right. You got to compete at the plate. And they were one of the most competitive teams I've ever seen. And I was really, really impressed with how they went about their business.
[00:15:57] Speaker A: I was in baseball, like, when you watched them, they played winning baseball. Like, their offense was built to score runs in a variety of ways. I loved watching them play. And that's the beautiful thing about baseball is, like, they played right. Their offense was right. They will put all kinds of pressure on you with drag button and push button. That will drive you crazy. It's like one of those gnats that won't go away. And like that, that was their offense. It's like a nat that won't go away.
[00:16:22] Speaker B: I think there's a. One of the games they beat us, I think they had either 15 to 18 singles. So that 15 to 18 hits, all of them were singles. Well, you know, you look at that, you're like, we got to maybe focus on, you know, power, power numbers. Well, they did just fine, you know, so, yeah, they were a good baseball team. And we learned a lot from watching that, that team play.
[00:16:44] Speaker A: When you got in this thing, did you think you'd win three national championships?
[00:16:50] Speaker B: I didn't think about it much. You know, I mean, I, you know, if, if, if you start thinking about what, what you're going to do from that standpoint, then you're probably working against, you know, the fundamentals of the game. Right? I mean, we're, we're talking, you know, it's definitely a thing now that everyone's preaching, staying in the moment, you know, pitch by pitch, inning by inning, that type of mentality, and, and I think that's all we can do. I, I think over the years I've, I've probably started to set less goals than ever before because, you know, goals are somewhat artificial and I think most of us probably limit our limit our, ourselves when, when we verbalize our goal. Right. I, I don't know if, if most of us really think that we're as capable as we are. Right. If, if you set a goal as hitting.400, I'm gonna, that's what you're probably gonna hit.402. Good job. You set your goal, but you didn't hit.450. So. So yeah, I set goals less. I try to stay in the moment more.
I don't look too far in the future anymore. I just. And I also try not to put artificial expectations on our team. Like, okay, we lost a lot this year, so that must mean, boy, we're going to not win any games this year. I don't know if we're going to win any games yet. So that's, that's what the fall is going to be about.
[00:18:09] Speaker A: With your hall of Fame podcast, you and I talked about peak performance stuff. Did you end up adding any peak performance stuff in after that? You and I had talked a little bit about adding some peak performance stuff in.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Like what are you referring to the actual. Like the.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: We got into some breathing stuff. We got into. We went in a variety of different mindfulness.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: We talk more about it and we try to put it into our practices more than ever before. I mean, for example, you know, if you're working a drill set with tees or toss or even a BP set, we're going to give them moments for routines, we're going to give them moments for breathing.
We're going to do a lot more one pitch stuff, you know, than ever before on the offensive side where they have one swing and they have to be on time with that one swing.
We don't sit down on the, on, we don't lay down on the, on the grass or anything like that. We don't do anything like that.
But yeah, I'd like to think we've incorporated a lot of those things.
We spent a lot of time on the breathing piece. I think that's important. It's the easiest way to slow things down for, for quality athletes.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: So how do you adjust to that with the clock though, too?
[00:19:27] Speaker B: Well, I think that what I thought the clock was going to be a bigger issue, you know, and I think so much of the clock was, was getting used to something for me, I, as a player, I would have probably gotten eaten up. I was slow at the plate. I was really methodical at the plate. I probably caused some issues for the pitchers and I would have been very uncomfortable working at the pace that the clock requires you to. But, but our guys have, have had to make those adjustments and so everything speeds up and they still have plenty of time. They're going to have to, you know, get their checkpoints and they're going to have to do their breathing and they're going to have to get focused and they're going to have to, you know, formulate a plan pitch by pitch. They're going to have to do all those things and it's just going to be quicker. And it looks like they've really made that adjustment probably much better than I would have done back in the day.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: What do you wish somebody would have told you before you got into coaching?
[00:20:26] Speaker B: Boy, I don't know. I had a lot of great people telling me a lot of things and you know, I think the hardest thing for me to learn early was, was that I tied so much of my self worth to outcomes, to winning.
And I still want to win and I want to win bad. But like, my first year as a head coach at Whitewater was 04, we finished third in the nation.
In 05, we won it all. And in six we didn't qualify for the NCAA.
If I had a taller house, I probably would have jumped off of it because I was that miserable. I was that miserable, that, man, I thought this was an easy gig. You just show up and good things happen.
And so I guess my advice to people would be just, number one, it's not that easy. Number two, you're going to have to find a way to be happy even if you're not winning the last game of the year.
And once again, I don't think you have to get complacent. I think winning is wanting to win, wanting to compete is part of us. But you certainly can't beat yourself up that much that if you, if you don't do good one year, then, then you're completely a, a loser and, you know, and you're not happy in your personal life.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: Do you have any life mottos.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: Models?
[00:21:54] Speaker A: You got anything you live by?
[00:21:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, leave it better than when you found it. That's probably my best one. I mean, like, you know, I think that that's pretty much Everything we. And then, you know, everyone's been talking about the gold standard. That's not a new thing.
But I'm a big believer that the key to the gold standard is accountability. I don't think. I don't think another change. I think that has happened. I don't think coaches and teachers are holding the students accountable as much as they once did. And I know there's some things. It's different, it's harder. I don't think you have to do it like Bobby Knight either. I think, you know, athletes and students want to be held accountable. I think we just, as coaches, that's our number one job. So, yeah, I'd say, you know, leave the situation better than when you found it, when you got there, you know, reach for the gold standard. And then as coaches, our job is to hold them accountable, hold them accountable to a high standard.
[00:22:51] Speaker A: You said you had a lot of people telling you stuff early on. What was some of the better advice you got?
[00:22:57] Speaker B: Well, I was fortunate to have played. And I guess when I say telling me, maybe showing me would be a better, better idea, having the conversations with me that would lead to something.
You know, first of all, I played for a wonderful high school coach. And, you know, he was really big on short kind of drill sets where, where you would do, you know, tees and toss and you do all the preliminary stuff that most other high schools weren't doing. And, and so, you know, that was part what I took from him. And then how he, how he held us accountable, discipline wise, was unique to him. And then I had Coach Miller. You know, he, his. His contribution was telling me maybe daily that if you didn't have to coach the brain, coaching would be easy and that so much of the game has to be played up there.
And then I had a fortunate opportunity to be with Charlie Green Sr.
Charlie, of course, was down in Miami Dade for a number of years.
I got stuck carrying his duffel bag while doing a clinic in Europe, and his duffel bag was full of books. I didn't know it when I offered to help, but I think he really liked me because of that. And we became lifelong friends. And. And, you know, he just passed about a year and a half ago, and I miss him a lot, but he taught me so much about pitching, you know, about the specifics of pitching and how we could develop it and how we could do it without. Without compromising the loads on the arm and things of that nature. We still use a dowel, which is just a piece of wood, which was that was a Charlie thing, and so I still remember him. And, you know, the list goes on and on. A good friend, Terry Ayers, that, you know, we talk pitching like.
Like weekly.
Coach. Coach Fuller, who spent 30, 38 years coaching high school baseball and then retired and joined my staff. I mean, if I have something I'm pondering, I'm usually talking to him. And then, of course, all of those. All of those wonderful coaches, you know, in the ABCA that we see on a. On a. On a regular basis. You know, it wasn't too long ago you got guys like Tim Corbin that he's maybe the busiest man on the planet, but if. If I have a question, he takes my call, and I'm so grateful for that. So, yeah, it's. I think there's plenty of people that are willing to help you if you. If you, you know, respectfully ask for it. And that's why it's been a. It's been a great run. I hope it's not over yet.
[00:25:28] Speaker A: I got a nice reminder. In Omaha this year, Charlie Jr. Would bring Charlie Senior to our board meetings. And Charlie Jr. Sent a text during board meetings this year, like, we. I miss you guys. I'm like, you could still come anyway.
I know you're busy with the brewers, but you could still make an appearance.
[00:25:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I saw Charlie about a week ago because there's a team. Yeah, there's a team from Germany training at our facility, and. And I. I got him tickets, and we went down there, and Charlie found the time to come out, talk to the. To. To those players, and. And it was right in the middle of their run. I think they. They set the 13 in a row, so we got free burgers from George Webb.
[00:26:09] Speaker A: You talked about the gold standard. Do you think another way to reframe that is lead by example?
[00:26:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's in the same area. I don't particularly love lead by example, because when people say, yeah, he leads by example, that means he does his job. There's no leading going on. You're doing your job. So I don't know who you're leading except yourself. You're certainly a great example of what we're trying to get.
But, yeah, you know, what you see in what you're referring to is the athletes that have those high standards that they're out early, they're staying late, they're on their off days, they're getting the work done. That certainly is contagious, and that is absolutely, from a work standpoint, the gold standard. But then not only do you have to show up. You got to do things the right way.
Right. I mean, that's. That's the other part of the gold standard. It's not only what you do, but it's how you do it. And, you know, there's a big difference between almost right and exactly right. So that attention to detail, I think, is also part of that gold standard.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: Did you ever get bad advice?
[00:27:22] Speaker B: No, I. I don't. Yeah. No, I don't think so.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: Is there any such thing as bad advice? I think about that a lot. I don't know if there is bad advice.
I think people give you advice from their experience, and I don't think there is such a thing as bad advice. I think they're giving you things that they think are going to help you, but it's from their experience.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think what we do is what we do naturally, which is just trial and error.
Right. You tell me something you think would work, and I respect you enough to say, yeah, that sounds pretty good. And I tried. And if it sucks, you know, I'm not going to tell you it sucks. I'm just going to probably stop doing it.
You know, I was. Terry Ayers is the guy who got me on the weighted ball program, and, you know, he got it from Tom House and the whole VIP thing. And it's a legitimate program, and there's nothing. I have no issues against it. I just felt for our guys, for the amount of time we're together, we needed. We needed some things that would increase pitch ability. I didn't think we were improving movement patterns significantly by using the weighted ball. So, like I said, it was a great suggestion, and I learned a lot from that exercise. We did it for seven years, and we learned a lot from it. So I'm not opposed to it. I just think, like you said, I think there's never bad advice. I think you try it and you see if it works into your system.
[00:28:48] Speaker A: When you look across the dugout to another team, what makes you think that's a good assistant coach?
[00:28:56] Speaker B: Well, sometimes it's hard to figure out who should be given the credit. Right. You know, if you're a head coach, it's, of course you. You're the best head coach. You. You. You created the leadership for. For a great season. If you're an assistant coach, you're winning championships because you're really good at what you do. And the head coach doesn't know that much. He deals with the periphery and. And, you know, that's the dynamics of coaching. Right. So and then, and then of course, you become both. You become, you are an assistant, you become ahead. And when you become ahead, you realize there's gaps in what you were thinking.
So I guess the first thing is it's pretty hard to determine who should be given the credit for the performance that's across the field from you. But I'll tell you what I look at a lot is I look commonalities of performance.
You know, like if you play the same team every year and they're doing the same things well, that tells me they're getting coached on it. Like if their approach at the plate is somewhat consistent, not the same, because that would mean you'd have the same players, but consistent that they compete well at the plate or their pitchers, they're able to, you know, consistently throw strikes down in the zone with a two pitch mix, they control runners. Well, those things are usually taught programmatically. So I don't know who can get the credit for it. Sometimes it's the assistant coach or sometimes it could be simple, simply the head coach emphasizing that those things are important.
And so I don't know who to give the credit to. I just know that if I look across and they're consistent with their fundamentals and play, I know that that's a well coached team.
If you see a team one year and they're pretty good and the next year they're not very good and they're doing things differently. For example, maybe they're not good on the bas all of a sudden. Well, I think they probably aren't consistent in what they're teaching and maybe I'll look a little bit down on that team, but for the most part it's consistency of performance is what I look at.
[00:31:02] Speaker A: You talked about accountability and I agree with you, but it's got to start in the house. How can we start to bring some accountability back for society?
[00:31:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess just like in government, it has to be local, it has to start local. Right.
You know, the first thing is it has to be in your schools, it has to be in the houses.
I'll be critical of me as a parent and our generation as a parent. We're the first and I'm not a sociologist, so I can't. This is maybe not 100% true, so don't hold me to it. But it certainly seems that my generation decided that we were going to parent our kids different than how we were brought up.
My friends and I, we parent differently. Matter of fact, when we had our first kid, we were talking to my mom, like, she has no idea what. What we're doing raising this kid. Like, hey, you can't give it rice until this date. And don't. Don't hold the baby that way. I mean, these are all the things we were taught, you know, in our class. And my mom's looking at me like, what the hell are you talking about? Like, I'll be fine. Give me that baby. So.
So I do think we.
Another example would be, you know, we're. We're like, we're the first generation that I know of that we think each kid needs their own room and they all need their own bathrooms. I mean, that's like, I was in there with my brother, and because of it, I really benefited from being with him. So, yeah, like, I think it has to start with the families. I think it has to start in the schools at an early day, early, early time. And then I think when it's all said and done, I think with. When we get them, I think we gotta set some standards. And it can't be predicated on talent, and it can't be predicated on winning, because if it is, we know people are going to lose, you know, fall through the cracks. I mean, I think the biggest thing is that we have compromised due to the pressure of winning. That's what we've done. Like, players can do things that they couldn't do before because they're talented. I mean, it's amazing to me how many of the most talented players I see maybe aren't the hardest worker or maybe don't have the best attitude, and it's because they've been allowed to get away with it for their whole. Their whole life. So I think it starts in the families. It's going to have to be in the schools. And we as parents have to support it. We have to support the teachers for doing it.
Last thing, and then I'll get off my soapbox. But I think the biggest mistake we made is when we said parents need to be more involved in our education.
Like, what do parents know about education? They don't know anything. They don't know what's happening at the school. Why do you know? So, you know, we're not going to get out of that quickly, but the parents have to give our educators the opportunity to teach. And we have.
I never had a conversation with my mom or dad about, I can't, like, I can't believe what they did to me. And my parents took my side. Never did that happen.
And that doesn't mean it's never the right thing to take the side of your kid. I just mean, yeah, we gotta bring. We gotta bring that stuff back and probably stop hovering so much and plowing a path for our kids. And I'm saying this as a person who's done it right, so I'm not pointing you out or anyone else. It's something we have to find a way to walk away from.
[00:34:27] Speaker A: I wanna know where the switch was, where we started to guard them from discomfort.
Because I think that's the impetus of all of this, is that we decided that we're going to guard kids from discomfort.
[00:34:38] Speaker B: Don't you think? It started. I think it started with the idea that our job is to put them in the best position for success.
We need to go to the best daycare, we need to go to the best preschool, we got to go to the best school.
And when we start having that mentality of we gotta put them on the good baseball team because they can't play with a guy who can't catch flyball, I mean, that would be horrible. We gotta put them on the best elite training team. And I think when you start going down that path of trying to provide them the very best, I think that's where we cross cross. That's where we crossed over. I mean, ultimately, all the issues that we as parents bring, all the helicoptering and all the plowing, is because we want the best for our kids and we're just trying, trying to put them in a position to succeed.
But we've forgotten that failure is probably the best teacher and we just don't want to see it, you know? And, yeah, I don't have all the.
[00:35:41] Speaker A: Answers, but my worst season before I got to high school was on a Pony League team. We were terrible.
I got picked. You had draft.
We had really good little league teams like Division 1 players. Kevin Hardy was our center fielder, played linebacker for the Jags. Our starting shortstop, played Arizona State, and those guys all went to a different team. So I played on a. My Pony League team was awful. But I probably learned more in that season trying to help the guys on that team than I did in any other season until I got to college, honestly, because I played on really good teams, so you just kind of took it for granted. So I learned more in that Pony League season. That team was terrible. We maybe won two games the entire year, but I learned more in that season trying to help the guys on the team than I did in any other season because I was playing with terrible, terrible baseball players.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that. I think that piece is a little overblown, that you'll only reach your maximum if you, if you grow up and play with, you know, the very best, you know, like, I think one of the mistakes we make is we continually push, push our youngsters up a level because they're on the better of the two teams. So instead of being the star, they're the six hitter and, and, but they're up a level and we're proud because they're playing up a level. But you know, you win championships because you got guys, you know, you got guys. And guys only become guys when they dominate at a level. You know, like when you're hitting three home runs in a little league game, you're a guy. When you're the six hole hitter and they're asked to, asking you to hit and run and bunt, you're not a guy.
And if, if you don't dominate at a level in your upbringing, I don't think you're ever going to dominate at the highest level. So we have to, we have to. Like, I'd almost be better off playing a guy hit, having him hit in the four hole and have him go four for four every game. Yeah, he'll, he'll eventually come down to earth when, when he goes over four at the next level, but at least he believes that he can be the guy. And I think that that's something that we've been shielding our kids from too. We'd rather have them plan a little bit better of a team, even if their role is not quite as important.
[00:37:52] Speaker A: What adjustments would you like to see out of the portal or transfer rules?
[00:37:58] Speaker B: Whoa.
[00:37:59] Speaker A: Yeah, that's because that leads into that, the guarding from discomfort that kind of leads into where we're at right now as a whole in college athletics with the portal on transferring.
[00:38:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't want to get all these calls from all your folks. All right. But here's the reaction.
[00:38:15] Speaker A: I'll put it on me. You can come at me. Leave coach Bowden lynch alone.
My email's on the back end of this, this podcast if you want to reach out to me instead.
[00:38:23] Speaker B: So, so here's a couple quick thoughts. Number one, I don't know when they became so important.
I don't remember when kids and athletes became so important that it's everything about them. I mean, they don't even know what they need. Right. Like, should I, you know, first day of practice, take all the freshmen and say, hey guys, what do you want to do today?
Tell me what you think. Like, why would I ask Them. So for the athletes, they don't know better. They're just doing the system. They're doing whatever's in the system. But we know that this is going to compromise real values like loyalty, perseverance, resiliency. We know these things are going to be swept to the side because the system is, if you don't like where you're at, just leave it.
And which reminds me of another analogy I have is it reminds me like of some dating app that if I came home, when my wife comes home, I just say, hey, you know, sweetie, I love you. We've had a great, great, you know, 25 plus years and with two great kids and everything. But, I don't know, I just, I'm feeling like I need to see what's out there. And, you know, I think, you know, possibly JLO might even be interested in me. So I'm going to go in this thing called the dating portal.
And. But look, sweetie, if, If I don't get anything like if, if JLO or Halle Berry don't call me, I'm coming home to you. How's that going to fly? You know how that's going to fly? Not very good. Right? So, so, and, and that's a extreme analogy, but it happens in our business and our life and our jobs. I mean, just because it's not exactly like you like it. Whatever happened to making it better so that you can overcome some, some obstacles in your life? So I hate the portal about it. And, you know, but we got to learn how to deal with it. So one of the adjustments I think we should see is certainly there should only be one, one opportunity to.
[00:40:25] Speaker A: I agree with you, Tol. I agree. You have your one just like we used to have. You have your one free one. But then after that, you got to sit out. We've got to get that. We've got to get back to that.
[00:40:38] Speaker B: I mean, because. Because otherwise, I mean, it just perpetuates another move and another move and another move. And you know, I, When I, when we get a transfer that's been to like three, three schools, I always say, you know, I have a, I have a buddy, which I don't have a buddy, but I have a buddy. He's been married four times.
And every time he said it was his wife's fault, you know, his first three, it was because his wife was, like, uncaring. And I said, you know, when you've been to three schools, you might want to look at the mirror. Right? It can't always be the coach it can't always be the school.
I can't believe you're still not starting. So. So for me, you know, we're just, we're just pushing the reality down the road. And I don't like what it's doing to high school players. I think they're being over overlooked because of, because of, you know, what's happening. I don't like the fact that Division 3 has become the better. Division threes have become, you know, a quasi junior college to pick from. I don't like that idea. You know, it used to be, you know, go do the D1 thing and if that doesn't work once, once you've had the one transfer, then you gotta, you have to transfer down. Or it used to be they couldn't give them incentives, right? So you could go from D3 to D1, but they couldn't give you a full scholarship. They couldn't just cherry pick them.
Those I think were all good things. Now on the other side of things, the.
I'm happy for my four players that have entered, you know, that have gotten legitimate offers. I'm as happy for them as I have for the 45 guys that have signed pro contracts.
Right. I mean for me it's almost like a pro contract. Back in the day. Back in the day, you're going to sign for eight grand.
Well, they're signing for more now.
Our guys are when they go to a legitimate school. So it's a complex issue, but I think we do have to make some changes. I would say off the top of my head, I think everyone should get one do over and then we probably need to go back to more. Similar to old rules.
[00:42:50] Speaker A: Well, the other thing too is no one's talking about the delayed graduation piece of this because every time you move, not all those hours are going to transfer. So you're delaying your graduation by a year or two or you're coming out. It's almost like again like the minor leagues where you have a kid that played the minors for, you know, five, six, seven years and now they're trying to scramble to get a degree and now they're coming out in their 26, 27 without a degree. Like that's the other piece that nobody talks about this.
Every time you move, it delays your graduation. That probably another semester at least.
[00:43:24] Speaker B: And I guess the counter to that would be as long as you're paying for, what does it matter?
[00:43:32] Speaker A: And that's where this generation is too. Like they don't care. I think they don't want to leave the Bubble. I think kids are trying to delay their graduation because they don't want to leave the bubble and go out in the real world.
[00:43:41] Speaker B: World. Yeah, but we've had a couple guys that have, that have graduated from Whitewater and then entered the portal because they had another year left.
And they wouldn't have left unless they were getting everything paid for from the school that recruited them. Right. So for them, they're viewing it, hey, I get one more year in the sun at no cost.
You know, Whitewater had to pay something, but now I'm going one more time so that, that I don't particularly have a problem with. I mean, you get an extra year and you get someone to pay for it and. But I think those extra years are going to start to get tighter as Covid gets far in the distance. So we'll see what happens.
I don't love where we're at. I like the idea of having a four year player in our program. A guy that when he's done, he's a Warhawk. 20 years from now, he's going to come to our homecoming. I like that. I don't ever want to be, you know, Duke basketball or whatever, where you have them for one year and maybe you win a championship, but then they're gone the next year.
That's going to be something that we'll have to just see how we can adjust.
[00:44:43] Speaker A: You know, exit velocities are starting to jump back up again now with the. The newer technology. Does the. Do the bats need to be regulated again?
[00:44:51] Speaker B: Boy, I hope not.
[00:44:52] Speaker A: That's coming. I mean, I think that that's going to be in the conversation here in the next year or two of the higher eggs velocity. We're jumping to like 120 on certain balls hit now. And so I wanted to get your take on that if you feel that.
[00:45:07] Speaker B: Well, here's a couple things. If you come to a high school game, you'll know it looks significantly different than a college game or a pro game. Matter of fact, it doesn't always look like baseball. All right, no one's hitting them out of the park. If you get a double, that's great.
At our game, if we went to wood, it would not look at all like the major league game that we love and love. Right. I mean, the power numbers would go down.
If you look back at why this changed originally, it changed supposedly for safety reasons. Matter of fact, in 1999, our league was the only league in the country, D3 to go to a wood bat. Okay, so two of our teams in our league had to play in the NCAA regional with wood, while the other two teams played with metal. That year, out of our regional went St Thomas, who had metal. Okay, I never thought. I don't want to see anyone hurt.
But like, some of these rules, what's the percentage like now we're going to look two bases. How about just make a bigger base? Let's be done with that. Let's go with a bigger base. Let's go with the same, same bats. It's still not anywhere close to what we're seeing in the major leagues.
I don't know, a lot of guys getting hurt. I'd love to see injury, injuries on, you know, balls hitting back on people.
I'm not seeing that.
And I sometimes feel like it's the bat companies that are wagging the dog, that now we're going to need another bat tester. That at our level does nothing. I'm telling you, it does nothing.
I mean, we put it through this thing and who knows, man? I don't even know if that says anything to us. I can tell you our bats were not hot. We don't even know how to get them hot other than have good players.
So, like, I don't know. And then there was a couple years there where we were moving bats every couple years. And you're thinking, yeah, maybe this is the industry telling us what to do.
So, yeah, I don't see that. I don't. I don't see a need for two bases. I don't see a need for adjustment in the bats, at least not yet. At our level, at the Division 1 level, maybe. Maybe that's different.
Maybe what the Division 1 team should do is they should go to Wood.
I mean, at the end of the day, how, with the restriction of the MLB and everything changed and the amount.
[00:47:32] Speaker A: Of guys that are making it to the big leagues in a hurry now.
[00:47:36] Speaker B: Right, right.
And they absolutely made the decision that the colleges, the good colleges can develop players just as good as the major leagues. Right. I mean, if you go to Vanderbilt, you're going to know the game as good as you did if you went and played a ball somewhere. All right, so. So Corbin and his crew are doing the job, so. And a lot of them are getting looked at. So maybe they should go Wood. Yeah, I just, I know this. If we, if we keep changing bats, there's a cost involved to that. If we ever went to Wood, man, I don't even know how many, you know, wood bats we'd sever, you know, in a season and then how do we cover the cost?
So yeah, I don't. I don't.
I continue to wonder why we make all these rules that don't seem to be that important to us.
[00:48:25] Speaker A: By the way, don't be surprised when Major League Baseball is using the double base.
[00:48:30] Speaker B: It's coming all right.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: Especially because it had. Division one had so much success with it and like the coaches used it.
[00:48:36] Speaker B: And they're successful because of why. Because no one gets hurt.
[00:48:40] Speaker A: That's the biggest part of it. And. And you eliminate the interference call at first base that that was the big one is you eliminate that.
That's usually where you see people have issues with that is where's the base runner supposed to go?
Because eventually they got to go in fair territory to hit the base.
[00:48:58] Speaker B: So they knew where they had to go and the umpires knew where they had to go for hundreds of years. But now all of a sudden we need a better look. If you're a right handed hitter and you come out of the box, you're on the left side of the damn line.
Now you want me to. You want me to run and like come on like am I in play then so I can run now on the inside?
They'll still call it on you probably.
Right? Right. I mean if it's a double base, the inside is the fielders. Correct?
[00:49:25] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:49:25] Speaker B: So I'm a right handed hitter. I'm coming out of the box. I'm in the inside of the line. I'm on the field side of the line. Now you want me to go all the way over the right side like that? That makes no sense to me.
So I don't know. I think part of the game used to be if the runner is trying to get hit with the ball. The good players knew how to make sure they didn't.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: I just always felt like it rewarded the defense for Aaron throws.
That. That was the thing that always bothered me about that is it always felt like there was an errant throw from the catcher or the pitcher. They hit the runner and the runner got called out and so the defense got rewarded for a bad throw.
[00:50:03] Speaker B: Do we have any statistics on how many times does the ball hit the runner go in the first in the major leagues?
[00:50:12] Speaker A: I'm sure I don't remember last time. It's Nerd out there has that.
[00:50:17] Speaker B: Is it 0.008?
[00:50:19] Speaker A: Probably.
[00:50:20] Speaker B: Okay, now we need a double base.
Like what are we talking about?
How many guys got injured last year because the ball was hit and coming off at too hard velocity? I Don't know the statistic.
I haven't seen it. I have seen it in the past and I don't want anyone to get hurt. But baseball still, when you compare it to other sports, I think is pretty safe as far as collisions and things of that nature.
Serious injuries for sure.
We're masked up good. You know, we have. We have everything we need. We got gear all over.
I don't know. I think we're doing a lot of good things with that. You know, I just. I don't know. I sometimes think we're coming up with rules that I still don't understand. That rule where I have to declare when there's a guy at third, what is that all about? Like, am I in the wine or am I not in the wind? I don't know. I guess if I rocker step, I'm in the wind. If I don't rock or step, I'm not in the wind. I still don't understand that rule. So I'm a pretty simpleton. So you just let me know what the rule is and we'll try to adjust.
[00:51:21] Speaker A: Is losing last year a fail forward moment?
Is that a fail forward? It is a fail forward moment, isn't it? Where you get beat last year by Misericordia and turn around and win it this year.
[00:51:32] Speaker B: Well, you know, it's funny, it's amazing what the mind sees because that's what happened to Misericordia. Misericordia was there two years in a row. On the second year they won it. And our guys knew that.
And whether that actually, certainly you gain experience and feel for what it's going to be like, but there's also a psychological edge. So I think our guys had that psychological edge because they knew that that's what Ms. Accordia did the year before. They had been there the year before. They didn't win it. Then they came back and won it. So now that's what we're going to do.
So, yeah, I think there's a net, net positive there. And once again, how much is reality and how much is in our mind? I don't know, but it certainly worked out.
[00:52:12] Speaker A: Did you get any compliments for saving the ABC hall of Fame banquet?
[00:52:19] Speaker B: That's funny.
Yeah. Yeah, I was. I've had some friends that have texted me that, you know, that they thought I did okay. Job.
[00:52:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:30] Speaker A: So how hard was that for you to be that concise?
[00:52:35] Speaker B: Oh, it was pretty easy.
You know, I'm a confident man. I know you are as well, but I'm also Somewhat intelligent and I understand.
I've been a lot of those things. No one wants to hear me talk for more than five minutes. So when they say you have to, you get to talk five minutes.
I think they've given me enough time. I mean, I really do. Like, that's like a party killer, you know, like having to listen to some guys talk about something and that could be a party killer. So I guess for me, I never.
I never am upset if they say three minutes or five minutes. I usually go over a little bit anyway, but I try to keep it tight because no one wants to hear that.
[00:53:25] Speaker A: What are some final thoughts before I let you go?
[00:53:30] Speaker B: Boy.
Appreciate everything you guys do. I appreciate the abca.
I haven't signed up for this year yet. Someone get on it. I'm looking forward to the convention, the clinic.
I'm excited, man. I'm excited for another year. And I'm so happy and privileged of all the support you guys have given us throughout the years. And I know your membership continues to blossom, which is awesome and really appreciate that. So that's all I got for you.
[00:54:02] Speaker A: We're off and running again. It's going to be another record year. It's going to be awesome.
[00:54:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
I think we're going to drive. So that works. Saves us a little money.
[00:54:11] Speaker A: Why we rotate it around.
It's just that's. That's always at the forefront of our minds here in the office is trying to be as fair as we can to everybody to. To rotate it around to different parts of the country if we can. If it's feasible.
[00:54:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:28] Speaker A: And usually cost. It's always.
It's always going to be, can we keep the hotel costs down? And I mean, we haven't gone. If you think about this, we haven't gone up on our membership in five years. We haven't gone up on convention in five years. And I think it's going to be able to stay that way.
And we just signed our contracts out through like 2040 to keep the hotel costs down.
[00:54:50] Speaker B: Right, right. Yeah, that matters.
This one is kind of a replacement for the Vegas. Yeah.
[00:54:56] Speaker A: Yeah. We get a lot of those questions, people then, you know, if you're wondering. But the big tech conference is the largest in the world and they. They take up every hotel room in Vegas, which we don't. And they're going to pay 600 a night for hotel rooms for the big tech conference, which we can't ask coaches to do that.
So that was in the contract that.
[00:55:16] Speaker B: If the big kind of got bumped, we Got bumped.
[00:55:18] Speaker A: But on in a roundabout way. When you talk to vendors that have been to shows in Vegas, they were happy that we ended up not going to Vegas because, as you say, you usually see people like the first day, and then after that, you don't see.
[00:55:32] Speaker B: Well, you guys are going to start feeling.
[00:55:34] Speaker A: But Columbus is going to be great. It's a great setup. It might be our best setup we've ever had from hotels being attached to the convention center and then 200 bars and restaurants within walking distance.
It basically would be like if Broadway was next to the Gaylord Opryland is the best way that I can explain it to people. That would be like if Broadway was next to. Because High street in Columbus is awesome.
[00:55:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you guys should feel a little bit like the Portal, right? Someone just threw through the hotels a bunch of money.
[00:56:08] Speaker A: We landed on a better spot.
[00:56:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
So good for you guys.
[00:56:13] Speaker A: John, I appreciate it.
[00:56:14] Speaker B: I look forward to it.
[00:56:14] Speaker A: You're the best.
[00:56:15] Speaker B: Thank you. All right, man.
[00:56:16] Speaker A: I look forward to speaking with Coach Bodenlitsch anytime I get the opportunity. It's a great example of doing things the right way and not letting outside noise influence your core values. Congrats to him entering Rarefied air, winning his third national championship.
Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale, and Matt west in the ABCA office. For all the help on the podcast, feel free to reach out to me via email r brownleebca.org Twitter, Instagram and TikTok CoachBCA or direct message me via the MyBC app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off with the American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks. And leave it better for those behind.
[00:56:49] Speaker B: You and you know that way you're.
[00:57:06] Speaker A: Wait for another day and the world.
[00:57:13] Speaker B: Will always return and your life is never for yearning and you know that way.
[00:57:25] Speaker A: Wait for another.
[00:57:31] Speaker B: Day RA.
