Jim Koerner - Director of Player Development, USA Baseball

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Welcome to the ABCA's podcast. I'm your host Ryan Brownlee. This episode is brought to you by Rapsodo Baseball, the trusted player development technology of coaches at every level. Rapsodo has basically become the gold standard for player development in baseball. Pitchers, hitters, college programs, big leaguers, even their official technology ambassador, Shohei Ohtani. Everybody's using it. It's not just a radar gun with a fancy name. Rapsodo tracks spin rate, movement, release points, exit velo, launch angle, all the stuff that turns he looks good, and here's exactly why he's good. Coaches use technology like Pro 2.0 to build pitching profiles, hitters use it to fine tune their swing, and parents use it to justify spending a mortgage payment on travel ball. It's that good. If you're serious about development or just want to know why your curveball still gets hit 400ft, go check them out. If you're a high school program, they're offering a thousand dollars off. Just head to rapsodo.com it's like science, but for baseball people. Train smarter. Develop faster. Learn [email protected] this episode is sponsored by Netting Pros. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Netting Professionals specializes in the design, fabrication and installation of custom netting for backstops, batting cages, dugouts, BP screens and ball carts. They also design and install digital graphic wall padding, windscreen turf, turf protectors, dugout benches, dugout cubbies and more. Netting Professionals is an official partner of the ABCA and continues to provide quality products and services to many high school, college and professional fields, facilities and stadiums throughout the country. Netting Professionals are improving programs one facility at a time. Contact them today at 844-620-2707 or infoettingpros.com visit them online at www.nettingpros.com or check out NettingPros on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn for all their latest products and projects. Make sure to let CEO Will Miner know that the ABCA sent you now on to the podcast. USA Baseball Director of Player Development Jim Kerner joins the ABCA podcast this week. Kerner is responsible for developing on field programming for USA Baseball, six national teams and three national development programs. Kerner also produces curriculums related to player development for usabdevelops.com the organization's free online educational resource center. Kerner took over the role in 2021 after successful stints coaching collegiately at North Carolina Central University, the University of Buffalo, Marshall University, Monmouth University and Madai University. There's a Great conversation on development tips for players, coaches and parents in any age range. Let's welcome Jim Kerner to the podcast here. Jim Kerner, USA Baseball Director, Player Development since 2021 but was on the college side for a long time. North Carolina Central, Buffalo, Marshall, Monmouth, Medeo College. Did I get that? Did I pronounce Medeo right now? [00:03:42] Speaker B: It's close. It's a medallion college. [00:03:44] Speaker A: I knew I was good that one. I knew I was not going to get so medall College. And by the way, Congrats with the 12U team. It's been three years in a row, a three peat for the 12U team. So congrats. [00:03:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. They had a good, good trip out to Japan. Some close games and pull out a couple at the end there. [00:04:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's those have been some of my favorite ones. For anybody that hasn't listened to those, go back the last couple summers because I've interviewed a couple of managers and and we've had a really good time, especially on the youth side, talking about the development piece with the younger kids and they've always done a good job with RJ and then Brian did a great job on the podcast also. [00:04:23] Speaker B: Yeah, Madsen is a, is a great person, great coach. He's perfect to run that team and he's had some success the last couple years, which is great to see. [00:04:32] Speaker A: Was that a natural transition for you with what happened at North Carolina Central to then work with USA Baseball? [00:04:40] Speaker B: Natural? I don't know if it was natural. It was definitely something that you know, was, was timely. You know, God's timing is always perfect and you know, when the whole thing went down with North Carolina Central, this position just happened to be open at the same time. So USA Baseball was always something that I was very familiar with. I worked several event before becoming full time, had players that played for USA Baseball previously and obviously it's the best amateur organization in the world. So you know, definite attraction to the potential opportunity. So you know, when I got the news and the word that North Carolina Central wasn't going to bring back baseball, I put in for this position and you know, went through the interview process and you know, everything that that goes along with that and you know I was fortunate enough to get the offer and you know, it made for a very smooth transition from college bas baseball over to this side. So, you know, very thankful for the opportunity and you know, loving every minute of it. [00:05:42] Speaker A: What are the similarities between coaching college and then and doing what you're doing now? [00:05:47] Speaker B: Well, the baseball you Know, the development side, you know, we do the same things here with USA Baseball that we would do at the university side. It's not so much recruiting with USA Baseball, but there is evaluation and it's, it's a selection process. I, I wish it was this easy at the college level as far as selecting players that you want. Not too many people say no to USA Baseball and an opportunity to play for a national team or be a part of a national development program. So that part's a little bit easier, I would say, but tons of similarities. We're still evaluating, we're still developing, we're still on the field, we're still trying to create relationships. We're still trying to provide the best possible coaching experience for these players that we can put together and educate them the best we can. [00:06:33] Speaker A: But the daunting part of that, the flip side, is you do have an opportunity to bring the best of the best in, but then you have to decide to cut down to a certain amount of kids. [00:06:44] Speaker B: It's always challenging. I don't like to use the word cut. All these players are very talented. We could put together two national teams to go compete in these tournaments and two development programs and we would be extremely competitive. So to say that we cut players might be a little bit unfair. The selection process and how we have to piece these things together can be very complicated. You know, we have some pretty strict roster limits and you just have to put the pieces together. And great players get left off every year. Future major league players get left off every year. So if you don't make a team, I don't think it's so much a knock on a person's talent or character. It's just kind of how the pieces fall together and what's needed that year. [00:07:29] Speaker A: How different is the development plan for the different age groups then? Because physically they're different. Obviously you have a 12 year old, a 15 old and 18 year old, they're different physically. Is that much different? [00:07:41] Speaker B: No, I don't think so. You know, I really believe, you know, baseball should be taught the right way from the beginning. And, and that's the great thing about our coaches. You know, our coaches can transcend ages. And we've had coaches work with the 12s that work with the 18s and everywhere in between. And we teach the game the same way. And I think that's the one great thing about the sport. It's still, still baseball. Now, maybe some things a 12 year old doesn't do as well or can't grasp as well as maybe a 17, but I think the concepts all, all remain the same and the way you want to teach, it's all the same. [00:08:17] Speaker A: Does that go into then moving coaches up? Maybe because they've been with some of the kids that might be on the 15 year, 18 year team because they have a relationship built up with those. [00:08:26] Speaker B: Kids a little bit. I wouldn't say it's a prerequisite or anything. I think that has something to do with it. I think some coaches fit better with certain age groups. Personality wise. I think that has something to do with it. Not that, not that a certain coach couldn't work with any age group, but I think some coaches get pretty comfortable working with certain ages and I think that's important. I think it's maybe a little different how you communicate with a 12 or 13 or 14 year old than you would with a 16 or 17 year old. But I think the way in which what you want to teach them and coach them to do is probably very similar. Just the way you communicate them with them is, is. [00:09:07] Speaker A: Did you have to tweak the setup much when you took over and how things were run? [00:09:12] Speaker B: Well, you know, I came in at an interesting time. You know, we're coming off of COVID so there wasn't much done for the first, for the couple years before I got here. So it was almost a little bit of a clean slate from what I could gather. You know, I'm kind of learning on the run and when I first got in here, you know, I think the, we had the PDP league at the time and I think that was my first major event. So, you know, kind of, you know, I talked to some past directors that were in my position and kind of got a feel for how they ran it and different things like that. But, you know, my thought was we're going to run things very similar to what you would see at a spring training. You know, you know, complex, you know, a lot of development work in the morning and then in the afternoon we split up, we play our games and competition. So from the structure side, you know, I felt that was probably the best formula and best model. And it's pretty much what we've maintained over the last four years. [00:10:01] Speaker A: Most of those kids coachable that come in? [00:10:04] Speaker B: Absolutely. I very, very rarely has there ever been an issue with a kid not being coachable or at least, you know, looking like they're coachable. You know, I think that's maybe something that is, is taught with all kids. You know, taking the knowledge, you know, listen to the coach you know, every coach has something of value to bring. And I believe that with, with everyone that's involved in baseball, I think you can gain some type of value from, from every single coach out there that has, that has some experience. So I think these co. These kids realize that. And you know, I can say the excitement level at the 12, 13, 14, even 15 age is maybe a little bit greater than what you'd see with the 16s and 17s. You know, once you hit 16, 17, I think they've been around the block, they've been on the travel ball circuit, they've traveled with their elite national teams. They've been exposed to some different things. So, you know, I think maybe you get a little different kid maturity wise. You know, at the younger ages, they're still really excited to, you know, to be out there. And you know, there may be a little bit more eagerness with the younger kids. [00:11:13] Speaker A: What are you using for time management because it is such a large staff and streamlining communication with everyone. How are you guys tackling that as. [00:11:23] Speaker B: Far as on field goes or. [00:11:24] Speaker A: And off. On and off? [00:11:27] Speaker B: You know, on field? You know, we could be out there as, you know, we have a very short window with these kids. And I'm specifically gonna talk about the, the programs that I run and I run our development programs, the, the 1314 Athlete Development Program, and then the 1617 National Team Development program. And both of those are bridge programs for our national teams. So the 1314 sits between the 12 and 15, and then the 1617 sits between between the 15 and 18. So a lot of these players we hope are going to be future national team players. And you know, we're exposing them to the USA Baseball standard. We're exposing them to how we want things done, how we do things on the field, and kind of getting them prepared for what the expectation is going to be if, if and when they make a national team. We have four or five days day window with these kids, so it is extremely challenging. You're not, you're not going to teach them everything. And I think it's important that our coaches, when we break down our time structure, pick one or two key points that they want to hit on that day. Things that are, you know, going to be pertinent to what they're trying to teach and develop and, and they focus on that. I think if we're not really focused on the finer points of what we want to coach that day, you can kind of get off into the weeds and, and the message is a little bit lost. So we talk a lot about being intentional with what we're trying to teach in the moment. And I, I don't think it's, I don't think we're reinventing the wheel. We, we break it down from how, you know, we're teaching leads and secondaries to, you know, what we're doing on tandem relays and, and cuts and, you know, those types of things. So pretty basic stuff that just needs repetition and, you know, training to be able to make, make sure it's second nature to these kids. [00:13:20] Speaker A: And you say basic, but how many of these kids have not worked on these things when they get to. [00:13:26] Speaker B: You'd be surprised. Yeah, we, we find a lot of these players just have not been taught the finer details of the game. And, and I say basic. From a coaching perspective, they're, they're pertinent, they're, they're extremely important. But things maybe a coach takes for granted, you know, just positioning on a, on a basic, you know, cut from a, with a runner on second base and a ball hit the left field. You know, where's your third baseman going? Where's your first baseman going on a base at the field? Just things like that. No, it is. You'd be surprised at how many kids have not been taught these things. And that's fine. That's, that's part of the reason why we're here. You'd like to see a little bit more aptitude when they get here. But just like at the college level, you know, when I was, you know, coaching at the Division 1 level every fall, I never assumed anything. I didn't even assume my returning players knew what we did last year. We started, we started right from the beginning and, you know. Right, right. Hey, this is how we're leading off today and this is how we're running through first base and you know, these are the expectations and you know, we're going to get right back to the grassroots parts of baseball. [00:14:34] Speaker A: When somebody does say, the USA Baseball standard, what do you think of. [00:14:42] Speaker B: I think about doing. The first thing that comes up is doing things the right way, regardless of age. I gave a compliment to one of our coaches and I'm not, you know, Jared Halpert comes in here and he's, he's at Harvard, Westlake and in California and he does a tremendous job. And he's worked with, he's worked with just about every age. He's, he's been the 15 year manager. He's done ADP with the 13 14s. He was at 18. New training camp. And you know, I said, Jared, you know, one of the things that I really appreciate about you is that it doesn't matter whether we're talking about a 13 year old, a 15 year old or an 18 year old. You have a standard. You know, we're going to do things the right way, we're going to teach them the right way, the expectations the right way, we're going to carry ourselves the right way and these kids are going to work the right way. And he exemplifies that and I think that's something all of our coaches exemplify to a certain degree and need to exemplify. So when I think about the USA way, I think about doing things to the, to the best of our ability at all times. [00:15:45] Speaker A: Love it. How much time then when they're there with you, how much time away from the field is the staff meeting to talk about things? [00:15:57] Speaker B: Some of those meetings take a long time. You know, I've, I've been in meetings with, you know, trying to select players for the 18 new national team, 15 new national team. Even, even our development program meetings, they get very passionate, very detailed. All these players are very talented. So the separators become very small. So you, you need, you need good evaluators and you need multiple opinions in order to make sure that we're selecting, you know, the best possible fit for the program that we're selecting the players for. So they could take hours at times. [00:16:32] Speaker A: How much the indoor facility been a game changer for you and offices? [00:16:37] Speaker B: Oh, it's huge. It's allowed us to do so much, you know, just, you know, with the pop up thunderstorms we get here in North Carolina during the summer, you know, we're in there all the time and it's great to be able to have, you have eight drop down cages, you have the full turf field. So we, we use it every chance we get. Right now we have NTIS Champions cup going on and it's raining out all day today and they're setting up inside. We have player registration and tomorrow we're going to be having the 12 views take BP inside. So been huge for us. It's, it's quite the luxury as you got to see the other day. Ryan. [00:17:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I've been over multiple times. Anybody that. And I've said it multiple times. Anybody that has not been over there, you need to get over to carry and see the indoor and the offices. It's just a, a, it's a great addition and, and for the entire baseball community, it's A, it's a great addition and a shout out to the city of Cary too for, for helping with that entire project and everything over there. It's, it's tremendous. And the D2 World Series, you know, you guys got a lot going on in there. Outside the USA baseball stuff, the D2 World Series, there's a ton of Division 1 tournaments and non Division 1 tournaments that are going on early too. Monmouth one year old stomping grounds. [00:17:49] Speaker B: That's right. [00:17:50] Speaker A: Heads over there with coach E. Halt. [00:17:51] Speaker B: So yeah, Penn State, we see Penn State here all the time. And no, there's nothing better than, you know, walking out of the office and catching a college game at the end of February. And you know, you always have that itch to watch baseball and you know, haven't done it for over 20 years. You know, I love watching college baseball still. [00:18:10] Speaker A: How important have the community clinics been? I got to speak and, and I love coming over there to speak, but how important to have the community clinic's been? [00:18:18] Speaker B: I think it's a big part of what we do. I think that's, you know, part of the USA model is serving the amateur world. And you know, I think a lot of people think of USA Baseball and they think of the Olympic team and the WBC and some of our national teams. But you know, the purpose is, is much broader than that. I, I think we need to educate the amateur baseball world as a whole. And that starts with our youth coaches. You know, the better our youth coaches are, you know, the more players that are going to develop and come through the system and, and, and not from a development stand, just from a growth standpoint, just, just being able to provide a great experience for your team at the youth level. Not everybody's going to play college baseball or professional baseball. And, and that's not even the goal. You know, one thing that I'd like to emphasize with these youth coaches is that if your players actually get better and develop, then that's a bonus. But that's, that shouldn't be your motivation. Your motivation should be to have them to continue to play. And if they continue to play, if, if your 5 year old wants to play as a 6, 7 and 8 year old, then you're providing an experience for them that they're never going to forget regardless if they ever play high school, college or professional baseball. [00:19:32] Speaker A: And that was one of the last things I told them. That group. I just, I love the fact and I think you've been in it for so long and I've been in it for so Long. They're just great reminders of maybe coaches trying to do it for the first time and how passionate they are to learn. And I always remind veteran coaches that when you go to things like that, it's okay to revisit things because they're probably hearing it for the first time. Some of the stuff that we talked about and the other coaches talked about, they're probably hearing that for the first time. [00:20:02] Speaker B: No, there's no question they have. And the fact that they take time out of their day to come to an event like that and to spend however long it is, two, three hours, and just to soak in the information and take notes, it just shows how passionate they are. We had one coach driving from Lynchburg. I think there was another coach there from Washington, D.C. and you know, this is a two hour community clinic. And, you know, these guys are passionate and they want to provide, you know, a service to their team that other, other teams might not be getting. And you have to admire that. Anybody passionate about the game and teaching the game, you have to give them a lot of credit. [00:20:37] Speaker A: What would you have, what would you have wished somebody would have told you before you got into college coaching? [00:20:43] Speaker B: Before? [00:20:43] Speaker A: Before. What do you wish somebody would have told you before you got into college coaching? [00:20:48] Speaker B: Be ready to eat a lot of peanut butter and jelly. You know, I. The best advice, I did get good advice one time and he probably didn't. It was, it was a Division 3 athletic director. He probably didn't sell it as much as he could, but he goes, jim, be ready to sleep on a couch. And at the time, you know, I'm like, yeah, sure. You know, three years I'll be right where I want to be. And, you know, I did not realize it is a gr. And you have got to really love it and really be passionate about it to stick it out, to try to get to wherever you want to get to at the end. [00:21:23] Speaker A: And you're like me, you get out of that side of it. You and I both look a lot healthier right now. Even though we're older in age, we look, we look much healthier right now than we did when we were going through it. [00:21:36] Speaker B: You know what's funny? I had an eye twitch for about two years at the end. So as soon as my last game at the conference tournament, we lose in the championship game, we actually blew two leads in that game. We blew a lead in the bottom of the ninth and the bottom of the tenth. As soon as that game was over and I knew the program was no longer in existence. I think my eyes stopped twitching and it hasn't twitched since. So it's been, it's been a good transition. [00:22:02] Speaker A: Did you get any bad advice early on? [00:22:06] Speaker B: No, I don't think so. No. You know, everybody that I spoke to and people that were in my circles, you know, they. They really just told me to bet on myself and to keep grind. Believe what I believed in. I have very supportive people surrounding me. I can't, you know, throughout, throughout. Even my playing in college and, you know, post college, you know, the people in my corner always were extremely supportive, from my parents to grandparents. So I've been very fortunate. I've never had anybody tell me no or don't do it. You know, people have really bought into my vision or my dream as a, you know, trying to achieve something in this game. So I've been very fortunate in, in that way. [00:22:49] Speaker A: You and I had a good talk over, you know, this past week, especially on the hitting side. And I do want you to go in through of. Not, not that they're misconceptions, but obviously we see a lot of things online and, and coaches are searching for answers. Kind of go through maybe what you feel like because you see the best of the best and you guys are on the forefront of what's new, but also what's still working, even if it's new or not new. Kind of go through maybe a checklist of things that you feel like are really important from the player development side and maybe not necessarily misconceptions or maybe things to stay away from. [00:23:28] Speaker B: Wow, that's a really good. That is a loaded question. You know, as much as. As much as I think social media is great and it gives people a platform, I also think social media is very dangerous. And I think there's a lot of information on social media and I believe as a player or coach, you can go down a lot of rabbit holes and it can become very confusing. And if, if you're a player on social media, I would be very careful in how much content I'm consuming, how much time I'm spending trying to find the perfect swing or, or, or the, you know, the perfect pitch shape or whatever's gonna get me, you know, the most attention at some point. You've got to believe in what you're doing as a player and trusting your own process because you're going to find a lot of different opinions on social media. Not that they're all bad and, you know, not that they're all good, but it's just going to be a Lot of different stuff and there's a lot of different ways to do things and, and I think players need to realize that there's going to be a little different twist to how they do it as an individual than what somebody might be wanting to teach them. So I definitely caution on that end of it. From what I'm seeing, I just for me personally, I don't think kids play enough. I think they train. I think the training has gone through the roof. I believe kids love to hit. I think you have guys that throw a lot of bullpens with rapsodos and trackmans. And I think kids are in the cages with hit tracks and, and exit velos. But I just don't think we, we play enough baseball. And you see it at the young ages and you talk about you. Ryan, you said before, you know, when these kids come in, how much baseball do they know? Do they know how to position on a tandem relay? Do they know a bunt coverage? Do they understand how to go to first, to third or to read a D? And I think the product as, as a whole is suffering because of these. The way we're training, you know, strictly for, in my opinion, it's strictly for outcomes. I think a lot of our players are training for a specific outcome, whether it's maxing out your exit velo or finding enough spin on your breaking ball. So it's attractive to a pro scout. And we're really forgetting about what it takes to play the game of baseball. And I think some of that is seen at the major league level. I think sometimes the product might not be as good as we think it could be. The players are talented. I think the talent at every level is as great it's ever as it's ever been. We see more guys throwing harder and guys hitting the ball further. But I'm not necessarily convinced that the game's being played better. And that's my concern. You know, I think personally I would like to see kids play more. Whether it's what we do at our development programs. I think the sim games, the simulated games, I think it's a great training tool. I think more kids need to be in that type of environment where they're getting tons and tons of game reps to actually learn how to play the game of baseball and run the bases and, and do the little things that make the actual product better. There's nothing wrong with training. There's nothing wrong with hitting in the cage and trying to, to be a good hitter. But you got to know what you're what you're doing to be a good hitter. Sometimes I think the technology blurs the vision between a good swing and a good hitter. And I think there's a huge difference between those two things. A good swing might be an outcome of a home run or a, A, you know, personal record on an exit velo. But a good hitter is going to be able to do that over and over and over again. He's going to be very consistent with his exit velocities, and he's going to have adjustability and approach to what he's doing that's going to produce those consistent outcomes. And sometimes we get into these cage situations and these individual training sessions and, you know, it becomes a singular focus of how hard can I hit this ball? And we lose our ability to actually have adjustments and be productive throughout the course of a game. Strikeouts are not good outs. All right? Regardless of what some people might argue, you know, a sac fly, still a good out. You know, runner on third base and a ground ball to second with the infield back, that's still a good out. So, you know, there's definitely a lot of variables there that we lose just by training kids for singular outcomes. [00:28:26] Speaker A: Does it trans. You know, the thing is, does it translate to on field performance? And I think that's the question that you always. And there's a time for training. Yes, there is. But at some point the question has to be asked is, does this translate to on field performance? [00:28:45] Speaker B: I think you hit the nail on the head. You know, my thing is, you know what I ask, because I've seen it. You know, I do these camps. I, I do some private camps. And I was at a camp last winter and I had to. I asked the, the, the director, the person that was running the camp, could you turn off the hit tracks? Because some of these kids, they can't finish their swing before they're looking at the video game, which is the TV screen that tells them how far or how hard they hit the ball. And we're totally losing the purpose of what we're trying to do here to, to create better hitters. So, you know, I grew up without a hitch, right? I grew up without Rap Soda, without Trackman. And I was pretty sure that I knew when I took a good swing, I didn't need a machine to tell me what was good and what was bad. So, you know, but maybe I'm. Maybe I'm getting old. [00:29:38] Speaker A: And it goes to back to inbox adjustments or at bato bat adjustments too, because in a game they're Going to have to develop, depend on their own feel for those adjustments. So yes, there's a time for the technology piece, but you have to be able to get to blend that to on field performance of being able to make adjustments when they need to. From pitch to pitch. I mean we very rare. I'm sure you didn't coach a lot of hitters that can make pitch to pitch adjustments. I didn't really. But at bat to bat adjustments or game to game adjustments, they have to do a lot of that work on their own to be able to feel what they're doing. Doing. [00:30:12] Speaker B: Yeah, no question. And, and that's developing the hitter. You know, there's a difference between developing the swinger and then the, the developing the hitter is your swing decisions. What position, what pitches are you swinging at, you know, are you chasing out a zone, are you being able to make timing adjustments on all speed pitches? And you know, that's when you get into really developing the complete hitter and not just someone that has the potential to, you know, hit a ball 400ft at 110 miles an hour. [00:30:41] Speaker A: How much time are you spending with, with the USA kids on approach, on routines, you know, some of that stuff to help them develop more as a hitter? [00:30:51] Speaker B: All of it. That anything we do hitting wise, that's all we're doing. I'm not talking about swings. The first thing we do when we sit down, we have our staff meetings, I said listen guys, we have five days here or whatever, whatever the time period is, we're not changing swings. And number one, I really don't feel like these kids want us to change swings. Maybe some of them do. You know, maybe that's a little bit of a broad brush but, but most kids have someone they go to, someone they trust when it comes to hitting. And that's fine. That's, that's great. I have no issue with that. But what we can talk about, we can talk about swing decision, we can, we can talk about approach, we can talk about adjustability, we can talk about how to attack different pitchers, talk about situational hitting, managing counts. Those things are transcendent. And I, I think any kid that is open to learning and being the best they can be, they're going to be receptive to that kind of coaching. And that's really what we focus on in these development programs. [00:31:46] Speaker A: So how are you relaying? Okay, early in the count, two strikes, how much time are you spending on the difference with that? [00:31:53] Speaker B: We'll spend some different. Yeah, we'll, we'll talk about those things. It just depends on how this day structured. We always have a, a hitting development session, and it depends on what we're breaking down on. It to me, anything that we're doing in the cage or on the field should have some type of, type of a swing decision component to it. I, I really feel like that's important no matter what you're doing as a hitting coach. You know, pitch recognition and swing decision, to me are the two biggest indicators of whether or not you're going to be successful. So you can have the best looking swing in the world, you can have the best bat speed, you can have the best exit relow, and, you know, all those intangibles. But if you don't know what you're swinging at or what pitches you like to hit, then you're not going to, to, you're not going to be able to hit. So I think having, helping a player understand those two, you know, components, I think that goes a long way to fixing, you know, perceived faults in a swing. You know, it might not even be a mechanical issue. It might be a, a contact point issue. You change the contact point, you see the ball a little deeper, a little bit more out in front, all of a sudden the swing sinks up a little better. And you just spent, you know, a hundred dollars a lesson trying to change your swing. And really, you just need to understand contact points or approach. [00:33:06] Speaker A: You know, with Kurtz, I think Kurtz is a good example. You see what Kurtz is doing at the big league level and was in college what year? Half a year ago. He's letting the ball get deep. You can say whatever you want, but Nick Kurtz is letting the ball get deep, correct? [00:33:24] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And he's a great example, which a. [00:33:27] Speaker A: Year or two ago, and I know it ebbs and flows. It's like, get it out front, get out front. Well, I'm watching a guy ambush really good pitching at the big league level because he's letting the ball get deep on him. [00:33:39] Speaker B: You know, one kid that I've seen a lot at the college level, I actually, I did some color analyst work with Duke baseball. Aaron Gracia is in, you know, he's, what an incredible hitter he is. And, you know, you could argue, some people argue about, you know, the style of his swing, is it too uphill or whatever the case. But his approach is so good. He is in the middle of the field, and if I see that kid chase a pitch, it might be the first time I see it because he is so good in the strike zone. And that's going to transfer to the next level for him, regardless of people, you know, like the mechanics or the aesthetics. He has a tremendous approach. He knows where he's trying to hit the baseball, and he is in the zone all the time. And kind of like Kirk, in my opinion, there's some similarities there. He sees the ball deep and he. [00:34:33] Speaker A: Hits strikes and with an aggressive swing, too. And I think that's that it all goes with the caveat of still having an aggressive swing. [00:34:44] Speaker B: Yeah, you can't take swings off, but there's a. There's a tempo to it. And I think some people sometimes think aggressive is, is out of control or fast. I think it's. I think it's a controlled aggression, a control tempo. Once you work outside the tempo of what your body can create, I think that's when you start to get in trouble. That's when you're going to start pulling off pitches. That's when you're going to start rolling over. So I think it's very important to understand, you know, rhythm, timing and tempo when it comes to your swing and working within those frameworks and, and, you know, staying away from everything, being fast, fast, fast. [00:35:25] Speaker A: And on the mound, too. [00:35:26] Speaker B: It's the same, same, same thing on the mound. That's a whole another story. Yeah, pitching, pitching and, and what we're trying to do with pitchers has been tremendous over the last 10 years. The transformation of pitching has, has probably been bigger than any other part of the game. You know, guys are throwing harder, breaking balls are better, sliders, everything's better, you know, but. But I think on the flip side, we're probably suffering from some lack of, you know, I think there needs to be some type of balance between the two here because, you know, you see games with, you know, 10 walks and 15 strikeouts, and, you know, sometimes, you know, that's tough to watch and that affects the product. And, you know, baseball is trying to create more action at the major league level. That's why we have the pitch clock. That's why we have, you know, the limitations on the number of picks. But when half the game is walks and the other half is strikeouts, you know, to me, something, something's amiss right there, and we need to find a balance between the two to make the game a little bit more entertaining and a little more watchable at times with. [00:36:38] Speaker A: Coaches listening and where. What should they be spending a majority of their time from a practice planning standpoint. [00:36:46] Speaker B: Now we're talking youth coaches. [00:36:48] Speaker A: Let's go youth. And then you can work your way up. [00:36:51] Speaker B: From a youth coach standpoint, I think number one, reps, I don't think you can get enough reps. I think kids need to be getting hundreds and hundreds of reps. I don't think kids play enough. You know, whatever you do at a youth level and having coached some youth baseball with my son through the ages, you don't get enough time with your players. So reps are really important. But when I put together youth practices and I was in that environment a little bit, I tried to do everything I knew they wouldn't want to do at home. So I knew, you know, hitting is the most popular thing. So guys are probably going to go home and hit. So I personally believe that the youth level batting practice in the traditional sense is a waste of time. There's nothing you're going to do in a two hour window twice a week that's going to affect that kid's hitting ability. So for me, it's catch play. Okay, we need, we need to perfect catch play. You're, you're not going to play, you're not going to do a single thing on the field more than you're going to play catch, and that includes hitting. You're probably going to play more catch in your life than you will swing in a bat. So our catch play needs to be really good. And there's thousands of variations that you can do and you can incorporate into catch play. And then number two, I'd run as many sim games as you possibly can. And starting at the youth level, you can do it with a T. Then you can progress to coach pitch, you can do it with a machine. And now you can incorporate your base running, you can incorporate your defense, you can incorporate situational hit hitting. So it's not like we're not swinging the bat at all. You still have situational hitting, you can talk through different aspects of that with your players and, and then you can assign coaches to certain aspects of the game and have them hone in. Hey, you got the baserunners. Really focus on what the base runners are doing. If you have another father that can watch the outfielders or the infielders and somebody kind of managed to field in general and, and then you're stopping it and you're, you're correcting it in the moment right there. So if I had a two hour practice, we do a lot of catch play, we play a lot of sim games and we might finish off with some base running, some specific base running techniques because kids aren't doing that at home. And base Running is, needs to be very instinctual. And if you're not incorporating those aspects at that 5, 6, 7 year old level, they're going to be lost when they get to be 15, 16, 17. [00:39:15] Speaker A: And you can, if you got 12 kids on your team and split them into three sides, play three Wiffball games going on at the same time, you can have ghost runners, like, you know, you could have one kid hitting and three playing defense, play pitcher's hand. There's a lot of fun stuff that you could do to maximize that time where they are playing more games, they're getting more at bats, but they're also handing the ball better. Like there's, there's some, some creative things that you can do. Kind of the old days when there was only two or three of you in the backyard and, and you got creative with it, like you can bring that back with this generation of kids and I think they'll have more fun doing it too. [00:39:47] Speaker B: I think you need to. And another thing I would do, I, I, if I was a youth coach and when I say youth, I'm, I'm talking between, between the ages of, you know, 5 and 12, I coach less, I would coach less. I, I think kids need to figure it out on their own. You know, if you, if you go to a, a typical youth practice, it's a lot of hey, stop, go, run now, wait. And you know these coaches, you can't micromanage. And you know, I use the analogy, well, these kids at home are told what to do, when to do every time of the day. It's time to do your homework, it's time to brush teeth, it's time to eat, it's time to go to bed. So when they get to the baseball field organically, they're waiting for that instruction, they're waiting to be told. And that's detrimental to them trying to become an instinctual baseball player. So I would let them fail. If your kids run into second base as a five year old, I promise you he's not going to do that when he's 15. So I really encourage like these sim games that we do and stuff like that. Do it without base coaches, let the kids run, let them run into outs, let them be safe, let them be out, let them go first to third, first to home. And they're going to figure it out and they're going to figure out how far they can go and what's too much and what's not enough. And I think coaches can really get in the way of developing instincts in. [00:41:14] Speaker A: Young players then what about the focus shifting after 12? [00:41:19] Speaker B: Well, I think then you get into some more, Once that foundation is laid, I think then you can get into some more detail and you know, some more pointed instruction. You know, really the finer points where you, where you're talking about timing on secondaries, you know, is the right foot landing when the, when the, when the ball crosses the plate to increase reaction time. And you can get into more of those things because now the, the players understand, you know, what the objective is and they can be their own best coach. What we're missing at the baseball, like when you talk about what we used to do in the backyard, what we were back then were problem solvers. We were able to, we were able to, you know, work our way through situations as kids without adults and figure out how to get things done. Done. Now if it's not done right in a structured practice, you lose that element. So if we can get these players to be self reliant at the youth level when they're in those formative years between 5 and 12 and then we get them at 12 and now they have an understanding, hey, I know how to run the bases. I'm my own best base coach. I don't need my third base coach. You know, maybe if the ball's behind me, you know, okay, yeah, I'll pick him up and he'll be able to let me know if I need to score. But I know how to run the bases now, now you can start talking ang with, with them. Hey, when you see your center fielder making this angle and he's working, he's working toward the outfield wall on a base hit to right field, that's automatic first to third. And now you can get into some really, really cool details with kids to help them fine tune, you know, those parts of the game. [00:42:58] Speaker A: I mean, what technology are you going to, I mean it could be equipment when, when kids are showing up. I know we talked a little bit about machine work work, you know, with hitters a little bit. And you have a, a good philosophy on that as far as maybe not doing as much high velocity stuff. I mean your, your, your philosophy on that is, is interesting because I think everybody just sees the high v low stuff. Okay? So everybody has to do that. But I think you have a good philosophy on that. [00:43:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that the velo stuff has, has a time and place but I, I really like to slow it down. I like, like in our sim games we use a breaking but called and the reason behind that is I, I really Want to emphasize the tempo and I want to emphasize the tracking. And, and I think it helps kids become better hitters. And I think when you get a young kid that maybe doesn't really understand his swing and, and the majority of the kids out there don't understand their swing. And when you get the Velo machine out, the first instinct is to go fast, and it turns into a home run hitting contest. And we see it with the national team kids, Velo machine comes out or we start, we start throwing firmer batting practice and it's. I can turn on this ball and I can hit it out. And that does not translate to in game success. But now you put a curveball on it. Okay, now I got to slow down. Now I got to track the ball. Now I got actually see the ball up in the zone and I might have to hit this ball in the middle of the field. Field. To me, that translates to in game success. So I really believe that you need to be able to go slow before you can go fast. And using a breaking ball on, on the, on the machine, I think is a, is a great teaching component. Not that we don't do some fastball work. We do, but I think you gotta earn. You gotta really understand how your body works and the, the tempo of your swing to be consistently a good hitter. [00:44:52] Speaker A: And to hit a breaking ball, you have to let the ball get to you and you're seeing a pitch that you, you don't have a lot of success on at times, or most hitters don't have a lot of success. So hopefully you're getting a little bit of success off hitting breaking balls that you don't normally get. [00:45:06] Speaker B: Yeah, no question about it. It's. It's funny, Ryan. You'll see when we do this, because kids are so used to going fast, we don't. It's not even a good breaking ball. It's just the one that you can hit. You know, hitters hit two things. They hit fastballs and hit mistakes. Good sliders are good sliders for a reason. You shouldn't hit good sliders, but you can hit mistakes. So, but, so the first time we do this, the swings and misses, it's insane because the body controls not there. The approach isn't there. They don't know how to tempo their swing. And, you know, we organically teach that by putting the breaking ball on there and telling them, hey, you gotta get in the middle of the field or you're not going to be successful. [00:45:50] Speaker A: How do you get them through that hump A Little bit. You know, kids don't like to be embarrassed now, so how do you help them work through that? Okay, you. You may not have some success in the beginning off this. [00:46:02] Speaker B: You know, when, when we started, we tell them, hey, this is what we're doing. We're not surprising them, hey, we got a breaking ball. You. You want to see a pitch here. This is what it looks like. This is how you're going to have success. I think the drill in and of itself is the best teacher. You know, after they swing, you know, and miss maybe once or twice and realize, okay, listen, either I'm going to look really bad here, here, or I really got to learn how to slow down. I think they figure it out pretty organically, especially if they have a teammate that does a little better job. You know, you don't. You don't want to be the one kid that, you know, can't make that adjustment. [00:46:38] Speaker A: Is there much of a strength and conditioning aspect for you all when kids get out there? [00:46:43] Speaker B: No, unfortunately. And it's. It's a really. I think it's a really important component at our, at our 1314 Athlete Development Program. We do a lot of education stuff. We talk about arm care quite a bit. You know, we talk about nutrition, and then we get into strength and conditioning talks. We don't actually get a chance at strength and condition with our kids, but at the older levels, we don't touch on it much at all. You know, most of those kids are training now with personal trainers or they have their own program. So. So, you know, we. We kind of just focus on the baseball side. But at the younger ages, when we, when we have them at 13, 14, we. We like to at least give them some information and give them some guidelines on, hey, this is what it should look like. Whether or not they, you know, completely buy into what we give them, that's fine. But I think it's important that we lay the groundwork for them and, and tell them, you know, what's important in. In this realm. And, and for me, number one, it's injury prevention. You know, obviously, people lift to get stronger, to increase bat speed and arm strength and running speed and all those good things. But for me, strength and conditioning first and foremost, has to be for injury prevention. And if we're doing it the right way, hopefully you're, you know, you're making your career healthier and longer by. By lifting the way you should be lifting. [00:48:10] Speaker A: Had a lot of questions from the coaches this week at the community clinic on parents. You know, what are Some tips on. On allowing parents to be advocates on your team. [00:48:23] Speaker B: What do you mean? What do you mean by. [00:48:25] Speaker A: You know, that I always try to reframe this for the. Especially the youth coaches, because they're like, you know, can you. Do you have tips for issues with parents? And I'm like, you, you have to try to reframe this as allowing parents to be advocates for you, for the team that the kids play on, and for their own kids as well. [00:48:45] Speaker B: Sure. And are you asking me, is this a good thing or a bad thing, or. [00:48:51] Speaker A: I'm just saying, if you're laying it out there, if you've got a youth team right now, how do you deal with parents? [00:49:00] Speaker B: You know what? I'm going to steal this. And I don't remember where I heard it from. I wish I did, because I'd give them. I give them a lot of credit because I think this is a great idea. The very first practice of the year, you have the parents practice, let them come out and try to hit. And I don't know who. Who said that? Maybe it was on one of your podcasts. Ryan. It could have been, but I thought that was a novel idea. And you know what? If I'm going to have a first practice, I would want them to come out and have them go through some of the things that the kids go through, because the older we get, the easier the game becomes. And it's a really bad way of looking at it because baseball is very hard at every level. So I think parents advocating for their kids is a very natural thing. And, you know, I've advocated for my son throughout the years and. But I think as long as you're doing it, that it doesn't cause issues within the team, it's not detrimental to a teammate or causing any type of negativity or, you know, know, you know, drama within the group, then great. As long as it's positive and you're also supporting the other players, then, you know, I think, I think it's fine. I think you can live in that world. [00:50:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I think having them go through the. The, you know, you don't have to get extensive with your practice planning, but I think allowing parents to actually go through the drills with their kids and participate with their kids, it gives them a little bit better feel. It does show how hard it is and difficult it is, but it does give them a little bit better feel. So when they do get home with them that maybe the instruction side, they can. They can help teach their kids a little bit, too. And as A coach like, okay, here's how we want things done. So then when they do go home with their kids, they're almost reframing or saying, hey, this is how coach wants you to do it. I think it allows the communication with the parents to be a little bit better to when they get home. [00:50:55] Speaker B: I agree. I think parents need to realize the messaging needs to be very consistent. You're cutting the legs off your coach, and you're putting your child in a very bad position mentally if the messaging isn't consistent from what the coach is trying to teach the player and from what the parent is also trying to convey to their player. We need to be on the same page in that regard. And I encourage coaches to have parent meetings and to make sure that that is reinforced with it within the team. And I would also very encourage that coaches let the parents know that when they're on the field, that's their time. If you want to cheer for your son or daughter, that's great, but leave the coaching to the coaches and be a fan. Enjoy watching the game, but let the coaches handle the baseball side. And then from a messaging standpoint, if the coach is telling the player one thing and the parent goes home and telling the player or something else, you know, I don't know why you're not playing shortstop. I don't know why that kid's here or that kid's there. It creates a lot of animosity with your player, your son or daughter, and then when he goes to the field, that attitude shift is very difficult. I would encourage open communication. I would encourage, as a parent, have their player talk to coaches, ask those questions, hey, what do I need to do? What makes me a better player? How do I advance my game? And now you're teaching life lessons as well, and you're not just complaining about a coach that maybe you think doesn't have the best interests of your son or daughter in mind. [00:52:40] Speaker A: Parents also have that responsibility, like the coaches, that your son or daughter should want to play the next year, too, because you hear it all the time. Well, the coach is the reason why my kid didn't want to play anymore. And in the back of my mind, sometimes I'm like, maybe it's how you handled your kid playing that sport, too. Like, I think there's some truth in that, and that hurts sometimes. But I think the parents also have a responsibility to make sure that their child, whatever they're into, could be baseball, could be something else, to really cultivate their passion and their love for what they're doing. And that goes back to fun, allowing them to have fun. [00:53:17] Speaker B: Well, it's eliminating the expectation. You know, I, I think if we just let kids be kids, eliminate the expectation. If, if you can get out of bed every morning and remind yourself that your son is not going to be a major league player, you're going to enjoy that experience so much more than getting out of bed in the morning and saying, hey, what do I need to do to make my son a major league player? If he's going to get to that level, he'll get to that level. But that's got to come from within. You know, it's going to be much more difficult if you're the one, you know, dragging him or her, you know, through the process to the field, to the cage every day, that that passion is going to have to come from the player. And if you can take a step back and, and let them enjoy, you know, being out there in the experience, it's going to make everybody involved that much happier. [00:54:10] Speaker A: And you see the forefront of it. You get to see the best of the best at the 12U, you know, all the way through. And a lot of those kids that are playing at the, on the 12U level, they don't play on the 18U level. I mean, you get to see that better than anybody. That. Okay. And that's where parents have to temper their expectations too. With kids when they're at a younger age, they may not be the best 18 year old, but you've also seen kids that are make the 12U team, make the 15U team and make the 18U team. What's the separators for the kids that continue to develop and stay the elite of the elite at each age group? [00:54:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's that passion, that desire to want to be almost obsessive about what they're doing, about their craft. It takes a lot of hard work. And you see, you see more players, in my opinion, that aren't on the national stage as a 12 year old that end up being on the national stage as a 16 year old than you do the other way around, you know, because for whatever reason, there's a, there's a variety of reasons, but you know, people mature at different ages and you know, you just can't, you can't always determine, you know, when somebody's going to reach their peak. So, you know, the players that do maintain that level, I think are just really, really passionate about what they're doing. They're driven internally. They don't have a parent, someone Telling them what to do all the time. I think it comes very much naturally to them wanting to be on the field, wanting to put the time in, wanting to do the little things, asking a lot of questions, being very coachable, you know, those different aspects of, of character. Basically, we're talking about character here that they have that maybe someone else doesn't. [00:55:57] Speaker A: Yes. The joy for, for work, continuing to work, especially working on their own too. [00:56:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, definitely. On. Yeah. On the round, you know, when you get to the point where, where your son or daughter is going to the gym on their own, is going to the cage on the round is. Is calling up friends, hey, I need to throw. You throw with me and let's get together, let's hit. Then, you know, okay, you know, now there's some, there's some real motivation behind that player then, you know, and whether or not they have a chance or not, they're still maximizing their ability in the moment. And to me, that, that can't be lost because at the end of the day, when everybody's done playing and we're all done playing at some point, the only question that I think anybody needs to ask themselves is, did I do what I could to be the best that I could in that moment? And if the answer is yes, then hopefully everybody can be a peace with. [00:56:49] Speaker A: That and that work transfers into the real world then too. [00:56:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Without question. [00:56:55] Speaker A: Do you have a fail forward moment? Do you have something you thought was going to set you back but looking back now, it helped you move forward? [00:57:02] Speaker B: Well, I'll tell you what, when the program was cut at North Carolina Central, it was, it was, it was really scary. I'm sitting there remember being in the off fields a week before. It was a week before opening day. It was the, it was Thursday before. We're opening up against army the following week. And I got called into the office and I had no idea. I thought it was going to be a budget meeting. And athletic director said, hey, this is going to be it. This is the last year. And remember calling my wife and telling the family and, you know, it's like, it's scary. You don't know what you're going to do. You know, we were, we were in North Carolina for 10 years at that time and my son was starting high school, my, my daughter was starting middle, middle school. And, you know, it's like, man, are we going to have to pick up and move again? So, you know, looking back on it, yeah, I've been very blessed to land with an outstanding organization. I Continue to work with elite athletes. And even beyond that, I think I have the opportunity to impact youth coaches and players throughout the country and hopefully making the game better. [00:58:07] Speaker A: How were you able to handle that spring? I mean, because you guys had it going. Like you invested so much time, you guys were moving in the right direction. It wasn't like you guys got. You guys had it going in the right direction. How did you handle that that whole spring? [00:58:28] Speaker B: Emotionally, it was extremely emotional. We had a really good team. We have. We have a couple guys playing pro ball still on that team, some really good kids. I. I handled it by approaching it like this might be the last time I'm on a baseball field. And I soaked in every single moment I could. I had more fun coaching that year than I ever had in my life. And I always reference the country song living life like you're dying. And yeah, of course I wasn't dying, and I'm not. I don't want to be that dramatic about it, but. But I was coaching as if I wasn't going to coach again. And I had more fun coaching baseball. Baseball during the 2021 season I ever did at any point in my life. [00:59:16] Speaker A: How did you change the culture? You transitioned to D1 in 2011. How. How did you change the. The culture? [00:59:27] Speaker B: By bringing in good kids. You know, just having a vision, sharing my vision, making sure we brought in the right athlete. I don't think it was anything, you know, outlandish or anything. Anything different than anybody else did, but, you know, being very organized and very intentional in. In what we did and establishing a standard of excellence that we expected. Regardless of if the team won six games a year before or 30 games down the road, we were going to do things the right way. And eventually we were able to bring in the athlete and person that was able to. To take us to a different level. It was a very exciting process. I appreciate every moment I had at North Carolina Central, regardless of the fact that they, you know, cut the program. I. I have nothing but fond memories and a lot of great relationships still. So, you know, I. I don't think it was anything different than anybody any other good coach would have done. You know, we brought in the right people, we had the right coaches, and we had the right standards in place to build something that I thought was pretty good similar. [01:00:36] Speaker A: The job you guys did at Buffalo, too. [01:00:39] Speaker B: Yeah, it was very similar. And that's probably one of the reasons why I was given the opportunity to take this over, because it was a very similar build from my time with The University of Buffalo, a new program, establishing a culture and, you know, a set of standards that. That could help that program grow. And gee, that program's produced, you know, that program produced multiple major leaguers. One, one player. Tom Murphy still playing with the Giants now, and Jason Kanzler is the director of player development with the Chicago Cubs and numerous other guys that have gone on to have some pretty nice careers in the baseball world. [01:01:16] Speaker A: You do have a hectic schedule. Do you have any morning or evening routines that. That you depend on? Because you, I mean, you're. I think you're busier than coaching in college, just with the amount that time that you have to put in, with the amount of teams and players and coaches you have to deal with. I think you're probably. I don't know, I might be wrong on that. But do you have any morning or evening routines to help you stay on task? [01:01:37] Speaker B: I've always done it. My meditation in the morning, then I get to the gym and then I get to work. So never fails. Avid weightlifter and physical fitness. So I gotta stay active and I believe in meditation and prayer and it keeps me grounded and heads headed in the right direction. [01:01:59] Speaker A: How long's your meditation or your quiet time? [01:02:01] Speaker B: It just depends on the day. Maybe on average 15 minutes in the morning, first thing when I get up and just try to carry it throughout the day. [01:02:10] Speaker A: How do you get in? So with yours. I know I have a set way that I get into my morning meditation, but I know everybody does it a little bit different. So I'm always intrigued by. By how do you just sit? Or is there a way that you get into yours? Because I have. I focus on the five senses before I get into mine. [01:02:26] Speaker B: No. Yeah. You know what? Yes, indirectly, I do. I like to go out on my back porch, you know, where it's quiet, nobody's there. Just before, you know, the day gets loud and noisy and people get moving and just kind of center myself and go through my routine. [01:02:42] Speaker A: What about your workouts? They different or. You have pretty set workouts? [01:02:46] Speaker B: I'm pretty. I'm pretty set on what I want to do. You know, my days are pretty mapped out as far as what I'm going to get done in the gym. Been doing a lot more cardio video lately, so. Trying to drop a few pounds and try to be healthier. A buddy of mine told me not too long ago, by the way, you. [01:03:02] Speaker A: Don'T need to lose a few pounds. [01:03:05] Speaker B: Well, I've lost 15. You're great. I did. I've lost 15 this year and I'm good where I'm at, so I'm, I'm pretty happy. But what motivated me was a friend of mine, Tommy Weber, says to me, he goes, jim, there are no overweight old people. And I sat there thinking about it, I was like, man, he's right. He's like, you get to be like 70, 80, there's really not any overweight older people. So I, I keep that to heart knowing that, you know, I want to be around as long as I can. [01:03:35] Speaker A: What, what, what else do coaches need to dive into right now from a resource, resource standpoint? [01:03:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I think like we talked about, I don't think there's one specific thing. Just be open minded, believe in what you believe in and, and make sure you're, you know, sending the right message to the players. I don't think there's one technology or, or, or one way of doing it. And if you don't have any technology, I think that's fine too because I think, you know, you want to call it old school. I think just hitting in the cage and getting a lot of reps and playing the game is a pretty good teacher, you know, but if you have technology at your advantage, then, then use it the right way. You know, make sure you're, you're trying, you know, to help kids, you know, not necessarily maximize an exit below, but let's get to a place that we can be really consistent with our exit velos and you know, just being smart with how you're doing it. But I don't think there's a magic formula. If you got a fungo and a bucket of balls, then you know what hit. Take a lot of ground balls. If you got a guy that can throw you ball batting practice, you'll figure out what a good swing is. So, you know, I don't think there's one way to do it and I think the most important way is to play. [01:04:47] Speaker A: By the way, I give you a lot of credit because your first job was a head coaching job. [01:04:51] Speaker B: That was tough. I didn't know what I was doing. I felt bad for those kids. [01:04:57] Speaker A: How did, I mean, how does that come to be where, okay, you're going to get thrown into the fire as a head coach. [01:05:06] Speaker B: Luck. Very fortunate. I was, I had, I was, I was working at a, I was working as an assistant store manager at a paint store and I literally got a phone call one day and it was, I think it was an assistant athletic director at Madai University. Medall University. I think they changed it from college. University. University. So I'm sitting there, and he goes, hey, we heard about you. We knew you just got done playing. And we got this baseball program in the middle of Buffalo, very small school. You want to come in and interview for the head coaching job? And I was like, yeah, let's do it. How much? And he's like, $3,000. And I was like, how many players you have? We played. Ryan. This is no lie. This. I'm. I can't make this up. My first year, this is division. NCAA, Division 3 baseball. We had 11 players. 11 players. I got hired in September. We had 11 players. And I sat down, first meeting. I remember talking to these kids. I was 24 at the time, going to turn 25. So, guys, we have. We have two rules. Number one is everybody pitches, and number two, nobody's allowed to get hurt. So that was. Was. It was. It was a ton of fun. Loved it. [01:06:24] Speaker A: We two talk about that. In the old days, like, you'd play six games a week, and you had 25 to 27 guys on your team, and nobody got hurt, because I think that just was the expectation. Is that all right? You're gonna have to take the ball regardless. So even if you're a little bit danged up, you still got to go out there and get out. [01:06:41] Speaker B: Just go play. We had a lot of fun, and we. We got. We got it going. We got it turned around, and. And then I. I got to thank Dean Eholt for bringing me to Monmouth after that. So it was a great transition. [01:06:53] Speaker A: Plus, you get to see him every year now when he comes to Cary. [01:06:56] Speaker B: That's right. Absolutely. [01:06:58] Speaker A: What are some final thoughts before I let you go? [01:07:01] Speaker B: This is a pleasure, man. I've been excited. I think I told you the other day, it was. It was like, two weeks ago where I was like, man, I got to get on that podcast, and then I don't know where you send me the text, and, yeah, this is like a. This is like a bucket list type of thing. So really, really cool. And, you know, just message to the coaches. Just, you know, treat your players the right way. Your words are impactful, and you don't realize the impact you have on our youth. So keep working hard and make sure you treat your kids the way they should be treated. [01:07:34] Speaker A: Well, all you need to know is Adam Schanecki, too, like that. You know, I think as a coach, you don't ever realize, like, how you treated your guys. But, you know, that's the thing. When you see guys take to social media for former coaches like you know that they handled them the right way. [01:07:49] Speaker B: Yeah. AB's a good one. [01:07:51] Speaker A: Yep. [01:07:51] Speaker B: Yep. [01:07:52] Speaker A: Jim, thanks for your time and this is awesome. Appreciate you. [01:07:54] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Take care. [01:07:57] Speaker A: I was excited to finally get Coach Kerner on the podcast. He's a great person and a true advocate for the game at all levels. The on field results with USA Baseball are showing the hard work he's putting in over in Cary. Thanks again to John Litchfield, Zach Hale and Matt west in the ABC office for all the help on the podcast. Feel free to reach out to me via email our brownlee abca.org Twitter, Instagram or Tik tok Coach Beabca or direct message me via the MyABCA app. This is Ryan Brownlee signing off for the American Baseball Coaches Association. Thanks. And leave it better for those behind you know that way Yep Wait for another day and the world will always. [01:08:53] Speaker B: Return as your life is never for. [01:08:58] Speaker A: Yearning and you know that way Wait for a night other.